[Fred]

Hi,

I've read the uk diy wiki section for stud walls but I didn't see
anything about how to fix the studs to the base and head plates. I
thought you were supposed to put two nails through at angles but I
have never had much success in getting the nail to go where I want
without splitting the wood. Is there a trick to this or a better way?

Could you use a couple of corner braces like this instead?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Stru.../sd2797/p88945

I'm about to make a partition wall. If you divide a room with such a
wall, do you just follow the ceiling and floorboard joists regardless
of the position of the existing walls? Or should you try to get the
new wall perpendicular the existing walls with a try square? What if
the room isn't a true square, then at least one end will not meet at
90 degrees. Is it just a matter of trying to get it to meet as near to
90 degrees as possible?

TIA

[[email protected]]

On 13 July, 22:05, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I've read the uk diy wiki section for stud walls but I didn't see
anything about how to fix the studs to the base and head plates. I
thought you were supposed to put two nails through at angles but I
have never had much success in getting the nail to go where I want
without splitting the wood. Is there a trick to this or a better way?

Could you use a couple of corner braces like this instead?http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Stru...alwork/Corner+...

I'm about to make a partition wall. If you divide a room with such a
wall, do you just follow the ceiling and floorboard joists regardless
of the position of the existing walls? Or should you try to get the
new wall perpendicular the existing walls with a try square? What if
the room isn't a true square, then at least one end will not meet at
90 degrees. Is it just a matter of trying to get it to meet as near to
90 degrees as possible?

TIA

To answer your second question first, make your wall dead square, true
and vertical, regardless of the room.

Second, if nailing is causing you trouble, how about some big screws.
Try something like 6mm * 100mm turbogold from Screwfix. They're self
drilling screws, but drill the stud at 6mm then whack them home with a
power driver.

[fred]

In article , Fred
writes
Hi,

I've read the uk diy wiki section for stud walls but I didn't see
anything about how to fix the studs to the base and head plates. I
thought you were supposed to put two nails through at angles but I
have never had much success in getting the nail to go where I want
without splitting the wood. Is there a trick to this or a better way?

If you build the partition flat on the floor and then lift it into
position you can save a lot of time and effort. Make sure it's undersize
by 10mm and pack it out at top and sides before fixing. Screwing is
miles better than nailing.

If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

Could you use a couple of corner braces like this instead?
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Stru...rner+Brace+50+
mm/d210/sd2797/p88945

You'll be there all week if you start messing about with those.

I'm about to make a partition wall. If you divide a room with such a
wall, do you just follow the ceiling and floorboard joists regardless
of the position of the existing walls? Or should you try to get the
new wall perpendicular the existing walls with a try square? What if
the room isn't a true square, then at least one end will not meet at
90 degrees. Is it just a matter of trying to get it to meet as near to
90 degrees as possible?

No need to follow the joists, the boards will bear the weight, put the
partition where you want it.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

[george [dicegeorge]]

If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282


How can a screw resist splitting?

[g]

[[email protected]]

On 13 July, 22:48, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

How can a screw resist splitting?

[g]

Because the tip of the screw is shaped and sharpened to work like a
drill.

[[email protected]]

On 13 July, 22:05, Fred wrote:
Hi,

I've read the uk diy wiki section for stud walls but I didn't see
anything about how to fix the studs to the base and head plates. I
thought you were supposed to put two nails through at angles but I
have never had much success in getting the nail to go where I want
without splitting the wood. Is there a trick to this or a better way?

Could you use a couple of corner braces like this instead?http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Stru...alwork/Corner+...

I'm about to make a partition wall. If you divide a room with such a
wall, do you just follow the ceiling and floorboard joists regardless
of the position of the existing walls? Or should you try to get the
new wall perpendicular the existing walls with a try square? What if
the room isn't a true square, then at least one end will not meet at
90 degrees. Is it just a matter of trying to get it to meet as near to
90 degrees as possible?

TIA

I once saw Tommy Walsh and Big Al doing it using a humungous nail
gun.
Sort of instantly shoots a long nail in, then makes a curious whirring
sound as if it's chuckling to itself.( Love to know how those things
work

[[email protected]]

I once saw Tommy Walsh and Big Al doing it using a humungous *nail
gun.
Sort of instantly shoots a long nail in, then makes a curious whirring
sound as if it's chuckling to itself.( Love to know how those things
work

Paslode IM350 probably. Fires a 90mm round wire nail

The large body contains a piston (about 50mm diameter), and uses a
butane gas cartridge to drive the piston. The whirring noise is the
fan which clears the combustion gases after firing a nail.

[fred]

In article
,
writes
On 13 July, 22:48, "george [dicegeorge]"
wrote:
If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

How can a screw resist splitting?

[g]

Because the tip of the screw is shaped and sharpened to work like a
drill.

The ScrewTites don't try to drill through, they have narrow shanks with
sharp edged threads, a bit like chipboard screws but only on the first
part of the shank, the rest is bare. They're not trying to force a lot
of material out of the way. Perfect for framing, easy pull in and very
little driving force so more screws per battery.
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

[[email protected]]

On 14 July, 05:07, " wrote:
I once saw Tommy Walsh and Big Al doing it using a humungous *nail
gun.
Sort of instantly shoots a long nail in, then makes a curious whirring
sound as if it's chuckling to itself.( Love to know how those things
work

Paslode IM350 probably. Fires a 90mm round wire nail

The large body contains a piston (about 50mm diameter), and uses a
butane gas cartridge to drive the piston. The whirring noise is the
fan which clears the combustion gases after firing a nail.

That's me sorted. Thanks!

[Fred]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 14:33:07 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

if nailing is causing you trouble, how about some big screws.
Try something like 6mm * 100mm turbogold from Screwfix. They're self
drilling screws, but drill the stud at 6mm then whack them home with a
power driver.

Hi,

I have heard a lot of good things about turbo gold, most from the
Medway handyman. I see Toolstation sell reisser screws, which look
very similar. They have the anti-split "slot" near the point and
grooves to help countersink the head. However, I think the tubogold
has a rifled shank, which the reisser does not.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Scre...ews/d90/sd2716

Has anyone any experience of these?

I guess there is still a knack in drilling so that you go through the
base of the upright into the sole plate, rather than through the side
of the upright but perhaps that's just down to experience?

Thanks.

[Fred]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:37:50 +0100, fred wrote:

If you build the partition flat on the floor and then lift it into
position you can save a lot of time and effort. Make sure it's undersize
by 10mm and pack it out at top and sides before fixing. Screwing is
miles better than nailing.

I have done two partition walls before. I did one by lying it flat on
the floor. I'm not sure why I didn't lie the other one flat, perhaps
there was not enough space, but I had it at an angle, so that I could
access the underneath of the base plate. Those times because I had
easy access to the top and bottom, I was able to screw directly
through the base plate into the stud, and the same with the noggins: I
screwed straight through. I didn't use any fancy screws, just "normal"
ones.

If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

These look really good for framing, for all the reasons you gave in
your second post. I'll certainly look at using those this time.

No need to follow the joists, the boards will bear the weight, put the
partition where you want it.

Perhaps I misread the wiki? I thought they had to go into the joist in
the floor and the joist in the roof to hold it secure? I suppose that
unless it's a very heavy wall, the floorboards would support its
weight, but wouldn't you need to secure the top to something? OTOH I
suppose that once built it should be pretty rigid unless it is a very
long wall. I suppose you could use frame or hammer fixings to secure
the sides to the existing walls, presuming they are brick rather than
more plasterboard!

Thanks.

[Fred]

On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:48:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Skew, (or some people call it "tosh" nailing) is the normal way. There
is a knack however.

I haven't got the knack yet but perhaps it is just a case of practice
making perfect?

Even when using 4x2, isn't the 4" the depth of the wall and you hammer
through the 2" thick part. This is where I get into trouble as the
nail tends to come out the other side, rather than through the bottom!

You can use screws if you prefer - the self drilling ones like turbogold
will not usually split wood near an edge. Failing that a framing nailer
is another way!

The gas powered "laughing" gun mentioned earlier? I read your FAQ page
and they sound dangerous and expensive!

Thanks.

[NT[_2_]]

On Jul 15, 11:07*am, Fred wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:37:50 +0100, fred wrote:
If you build the partition flat on the floor and then lift it into
position you can save a lot of time and effort. Make sure it's undersize
by 10mm and pack it out at top and sides before fixing. Screwing is
miles better than nailing.

I have done two partition walls before. I did one by lying it flat on
the floor. I'm not sure why I didn't lie the other one flat, perhaps
there was not enough space, but I had it at an angle, so that I could
access the underneath of the base plate. Those times because I had
easy access to the top and bottom, I was able to screw directly
through the base plate into the stud, and the same with the noggins: I
screwed straight through. I didn't use any fancy screws, just "normal"
ones.

If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting:http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

These look really good for framing, for all the reasons you gave in
your second post. I'll certainly look at using those this time.

No need to follow the joists, the boards will bear the weight, put the
partition where you want it.

Perhaps I misread the wiki? I thought they had to go into the joist in
the floor and the joist in the roof to hold it secure? I suppose that
unless it's a very heavy wall, the floorboards would support its
weight, but wouldn't you need to secure the top to something? OTOH I
suppose that once built it should be pretty rigid unless it is a very
long wall. I suppose you could use frame or hammer fixings to secure
the sides to the existing walls, presuming they are brick rather than
more plasterboard!

Thanks.

Stud walls sit on top of floorboards of all types no problem. However,
except for very short walls you cant count on them being rigid enough
to be ok with no top fixing, and ceiling plasterboard isnt strong
enough. If the wall misses all the joists above it, the classic way is
to lift a few floorboards and fit noggings above the partition wall,
and fix to them. There are other options at times, for example if the
new wall's only a couple of inches away from overhead joists it can be
fixed with a little metal bracket buried in the ceilng plaster.


NT

[fred]

In article , Fred
writes
On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:37:50 +0100, fred wrote:

If you really want to build it in place then slant screw instead of
slant nailing, these screws are good for framing, very easy to drive and
resist splitting: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/93282

These look really good for framing, for all the reasons you gave in
your second post. I'll certainly look at using those this time.

On budget tools (like mine) I could drive twice as many of those per
battery than I could on Turbogolds.

No need to follow the joists, the boards will bear the weight, put the
partition where you want it.

Perhaps I misread the wiki? I thought they had to go into the joist in
the floor and the joist in the roof to hold it secure? I suppose that
unless it's a very heavy wall, the floorboards would support its
weight, but wouldn't you need to secure the top to something? OTOH I
suppose that once built it should be pretty rigid unless it is a very
long wall. I suppose you could use frame or hammer fixings to secure
the sides to the existing walls, presuming they are brick rather than
more plasterboard!

I didn't write the wiki ;-). Although my experience is with clyde built
tenement flooring and lath/plaster ceilings, I've not had any bother
placing the foot plate on boards only and expect you would find the
same.

If you can fix securely into the walls then the top fixings only have to
handle a little wobble room and are just there to stiffen things up. If
it's a single piece or well jointed top plate then a few fixings into
the ceiling will stiffen things up nicely, they don't carry any weight.
From memory, last one done had simple plaster fixings into the ceiling
every metre or so and was very rigid. Ah, memory failed, I fixed a light
18x70 batten to the ceiling with PB fixings and then screwed the pre
made stud framework into that once squared up.

Note that this idea only works with a pre made framework, I'd prefer not
to be lurking under a 100x50 suspended by a few PB fixings while working
(although it could be propped).
--
fred
FIVE TV's superbright logo - not the DOG's, it's ********

[Fred]

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:36:42 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Ah, nailing at the wrong angle it seems.

That's exactly what I am doing wrong. I suppose practice will make
perfect.

Start the nail about 1.5" up the stud - you can tap it in a little bit with the nail almost
horizontal to get the point in. Then bend it upward so that it is
pointing down at about 30 degrees from the vertical and drive it home.

I had a look at the nailers in the screwfix catalogue and I notice
they are angled at about 30 degrees too.

Re expense, the gas nailers cost a bit more to run since you need
bespoke nails and a gas cartridge.


I see the catalogue also sells batteries for them. What is this for:
to ignite the gas? Why do you need replacements? Aren't they
rechargeable?

The pneumatic ones are cheap to run (a box of 3000 collated 90mm nails will
probably be £50 or so. (ebay will probably do you small quantities). However you need a small
compressor and airline to feed them.

As much as I can't resist an excuse to buy a new toy, even the
pneumatic ones seemed to be £300. Besides, I haven't got a compressor.
What DIY uses do you find for one? I always thought air tools were
more for work on cars? It must be quite cumbersome to drag a
compressor with you, or do you leave it in the garage and have along
airline dropped out of the window?

BTW is that what airline oil is used for? The first time I heard of
it, I thought it was something used in 747s!

Thanks.

[terry]

On Jul 16, 4:33*pm, Fred wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:36:42 +0100, John Rumm

wrote:
Ah, nailing at the wrong angle it seems.

That's exactly what I am doing wrong. I suppose practice will make
perfect.

Start the nail about 1.5" up the stud - you can tap it in a little bit with the nail almost
horizontal to get the point in. Then bend it upward so that it is
pointing down at about 30 degrees from the vertical and drive it home.

I had a look at the nailers in the screwfix catalogue and I notice
they are angled at about 30 degrees too.

Re expense, the gas nailers cost a bit more to run since you need
bespoke nails and a gas cartridge.

I see the catalogue also sells batteries for them. What is this for:
to ignite the gas? Why do you need *replacements? Aren't they
rechargeable?

The pneumatic ones are cheap to run (a box of 3000 collated 90mm nails will
probably be £50 or so. (ebay will probably do you small quantities). However you need a small
compressor and airline to feed them.

As much as I can't resist an excuse to buy a new toy, even the
pneumatic ones seemed to be £300. Besides, I haven't got a compressor.
What DIY uses do you find for one? I always thought air tools were
more for work on cars? It must be quite cumbersome to drag a
compressor with you, or do you leave it in the garage and have along
airline dropped out of the window?

BTW is that what airline oil is used for? The first time I heard of
it, I thought it was something used in 747s!

Thanks.

We toe nail the bottom of each vertical stud. Use a heavy enough
hammer.
If it moves sideways you can block it with a piece of 2by4 or your
boot!
Or you can use screws and there are lots of tricks to holding the
studs in place on the mark for the initial nail.
One way is to construct the wall in sections flat on the floor driving
in 4 inch nails from 'below' the bottom plate and from 'above' the top
plate. Then raise the wall, in small enough sections or for say a
garden shed etc. you can do it solo.
I've never seen anybody use those metal 'storm' brackets here although
I s'pose you could.
Good luck.

[terry]

On Jul 16, 4:33*pm, Fred wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:36:42 +0100, John Rumm

wrote:
Ah, nailing at the wrong angle it seems.

That's exactly what I am doing wrong. I suppose practice will make
perfect.

Start the nail about 1.5" up the stud - you can tap it in a little bit with the nail almost
horizontal to get the point in. Then bend it upward so that it is
pointing down at about 30 degrees from the vertical and drive it home.

I had a look at the nailers in the screwfix catalogue and I notice
they are angled at about 30 degrees too.

Re expense, the gas nailers cost a bit more to run since you need
bespoke nails and a gas cartridge.

I see the catalogue also sells batteries for them. What is this for:
to ignite the gas? Why do you need *replacements? Aren't they
rechargeable?

The pneumatic ones are cheap to run (a box of 3000 collated 90mm nails will
probably be £50 or so. (ebay will probably do you small quantities). However you need a small
compressor and airline to feed them.

As much as I can't resist an excuse to buy a new toy, even the
pneumatic ones seemed to be £300. Besides, I haven't got a compressor.
What DIY uses do you find for one? I always thought air tools were
more for work on cars? It must be quite cumbersome to drag a
compressor with you, or do you leave it in the garage and have along
airline dropped out of the window?

BTW is that what airline oil is used for? The first time I heard of
it, I thought it was something used in 747s!

Thanks.

A manual I saw recently mentiond one drop of oil as lubrication for a
'brad' compressed air driven (flooring) nailer before use. Guess
that's what 'air-line oil' is?

[Fred]

On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 04:56:15 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

Yup they are to produce the ignition spark. Yes they are rechargeable,
but even rechragables only have a limited life before they no longer
hold enough charge and need replacing.

Thanks everyone for your replies and help.

Well normally I have the compressor in the garage (which is adjacent to
my workshop). Typical jobs in the garage are tyre inflation (car, bike,
mower, anything else!), and driving an impact wrench occasionally. In
the workshop, the most common uses are with a blow gun for dusting,
cleaning etc (and inflating inflatable things!), and running a small 18
gauge brad nailer, which I use for a variety of furniture making and
restoring projects. For example fixing T&G backs to things like:

I'm not sure I could justify buying a framing nailer for one wall but
I think air nailers sound very useful and I could have an air impact
wrench to remove the car wheels like they do at the garage!

Some posts mentioned making your own shed using an air nailer; I'd
like to try that one day. I see you mentioned a smaller, brad, nailer.
I would quite like to try and make some furniture one day. Once I've
got the house sorted, perhaps I'll find time. The bookcase looks
beautiful. Do you recommend any books, web sites, magazines to learn
more about furniture making?

Thanks again,

[Fred]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:50:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

A good second fix nailer might be more useful generally - they will
usually stick in nails up to 2". Would make a quick job of cladding a shed.

Thanks for all your help. I can't resist an excuse to buy a new tool.
Watch out for a new thread asking more about air tools

[Fred]

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:50:59 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

I asked that very question in here a few years ago. I will repeat what
the late Andy Hall said to me at the time since it has proved to be
true. There are a couple of mags worth having. Woodsmith and Fine
Woodworking. Both are US mags. Woodsmith has a range of very well
detailed projects (typically 3 an issue) that would be within the
capabilites of most woodworkers to knock out. You may not want to
actually make any of the projects, but they are a good source of ideas
and design info as well as different techniques. Fine Woodworking is
more of an illustration of what it is possible to do with wood - rather
than anything you are necessarily going to knock out yourself (at least
without a few decades practice first!). They also have a web site with
lots of content - much they want paying for, but there is some very good
free stuff as well.

Thanks. I shall look into getting one or both of these. I hope
international shipping doesn't make the subscription too expensive, or
do you read an online version? What a pity there aren't any home-grown
magazines. I had seen a couple of woodworking ones in WHSmiths, are
they not rated by folks here?