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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Soldering brass
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. |
#2
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Soldering brass
In article ,
"Terry D" writes: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic? It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area, where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was before it broke. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
#3
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Soldering brass
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article , "Terry D" writes: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic? It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area, where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was before it broke. Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required. |
#4
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Soldering brass
In article , Broadback
writes Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required. I've soldered many brass plumbing fittings and they've all wetted at the same time as the copper so I doubt it. -- fred Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla |
#5
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Soldering brass
In article ,
Broadback wrote: Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required. Brass sheet solders as easily as copper. Terminals etc are usually made of brass as it's stronger than copper. Cast 'brass' may have something in it which makes soldering more difficult - I dunno. -- *(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#6
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Soldering brass
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Broadback wrote: Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required. Brass sheet solders as easily as copper. Terminals etc are usually made of brass as it's stronger than copper. Cast 'brass' may have something in it which makes soldering more difficult - I dunno. -- *(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. The 'brass' item I was attempting to solder is slightly magnetic, unlike my brass door knocker, so it probably has some iron content. Surely however iron can be soldered. I intend to try to silver solder the part eventually, when I obtain some silver solder and a decent blowtorch. I've had experience of soft & silver soldering for many years, but this has me baffled - maybe it is a flux problem. Silver soldering would certainly be a stronger option, using a borax flux. Terry D. |
#7
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Soldering brass
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. =================================== If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium. I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret. Cic. -- =================================== Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door =================================== |
#8
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Soldering brass
"Cicero" wrote in message news On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. =================================== If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium. I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret. Cic. Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I cannot solder it and the iron content explains the slight magnetism. However, the data sheet states that the suitability for soldering is good. Maybe it's a question of flux. Unfortunately, I still don't have a downstairs toilet seat! - even superglue doesn't work. See: http://www.anchorbronze.com/c95500.htm Terry D. |
#9
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Soldering brass
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:30:08 +0000, Terry D wrote:
"Cicero" wrote in message news On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. =================================== If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium. I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret. Cic. Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I cannot solder it and the iron content explains the slight magnetism. However, the data sheet states that the suitability for soldering is good. Maybe it's a question of flux. Unfortunately, I still don't have a downstairs toilet seat! - even superglue doesn't work. See: http://www.anchorbronze.com/c95500.htm Terry D. ================================== I wonder if the particular solder has anything to do with it? Lead solder and lead-free solder may behave differently with your alloy. Cic. -- =================================== Using Ubuntu Linux Windows shown the door =================================== |
#10
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Soldering brass
In message , Terry D
writes "Cicero" wrote in message news On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. =================================== If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium. I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret. Cic. Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I cannot solder it Then try aluminium solder -- geoff |
#11
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Soldering brass
On 4 Nov, 13:31, "Terry D" wrote:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. Dare I say it - why not replace the fittings? |
#12
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Soldering brass
"Zeke" wrote in message oups.com... On 4 Nov, 13:31, "Terry D" wrote: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. Dare I say it - why not replace the fittings? I originally called out my plumber because of a leaking toilet seal and I didn't feel too enthusiastic about doing the job myself. The toilet bowl has also wobbled for years and I have been unable to tighten the screws. Anyway, the plumber attempted to remove the screws and in front of my eyes cracked the pan, then stated that I now needed a new toilet. The new toilet was fitted the same day and is a good quality Twyford. Unfortunately this was last Tuesday and he still hasn't returned to fit the seat. Fortunately I have another toilet in the bathroom. I thought I would replace the original seat (which is nice warm wood), but due to seized screws, I broke the fitting. I have already priced new fittings on the internet. Do you think I have any claim against the plumber for breaking the pan or should I try claiming on my house insurance for the new toilet? I think I'm due for a claim, having only made one claim in my entire life. It's time I got some of my premiums back from these greedy insurance companies. The evidence is still in my back garden. I heard that my local police station had their toilet stolen recently. The plods are investigating the crime but still have nothing to go on. Boom Boom. Terry D. |
#13
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Soldering brass
Terry D wrote:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. Use plumbers flux. |
#14
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Soldering brass
Broadback wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , "Terry D" writes: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic? It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area, where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was before it broke. Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required. Brass most definitely CAN be soldered. Whether its a good idea depends on the applications. |
#15
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Soldering brass
geoff wrote:
In message , Terry D writes "Cicero" wrote in message news On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? Terry D. =================================== If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium. I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret. Cic. Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I cannot solder it Then try aluminium solder No try aluminium FLUX. google Carrs for suppliers. I have soldered aluminium succesfully with standard solder, but never with standard *flux*. |
#16
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Soldering brass
On Nov 4, 2:30 pm, Broadback wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote: In article , "Terry D" writes: I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas? A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic? It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area, where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was before it broke. Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.- Hide quoted text - Tell that to all the modelmakers building etched brass kits. MBQ |
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