I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

In article ,
"Terry D" writes:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic?

It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll
need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by
the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't
have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area,
where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke
where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered
back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was
before it broke.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Terry D" writes:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic?

It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll
need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by
the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't
have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area,
where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke
where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered
back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was
before it broke.

Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not
be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.

In article , Broadback
writes

Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not
be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.

I've soldered many brass plumbing fittings and they've all wetted at the
same time as the copper so I doubt it.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not
be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.

Brass sheet solders as easily as copper. Terminals etc are usually made of
brass as it's stronger than copper.
Cast 'brass' may have something in it which makes soldering more difficult
- I dunno.

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Broadback wrote:
Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not
be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.

Brass sheet solders as easily as copper. Terminals etc are usually made of
brass as it's stronger than copper.
Cast 'brass' may have something in it which makes soldering more difficult
- I dunno.

--
*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

The 'brass' item I was attempting to solder is slightly magnetic, unlike my
brass door knocker, so it probably has some iron content. Surely however
iron can be soldered. I intend to try to silver solder the part eventually,
when I obtain some silver solder and a decent blowtorch. I've had
experience of soft & silver soldering for many years, but this has me
baffled - maybe it is a flux problem. Silver soldering would certainly be a
stronger option, using a borax flux.

Terry D.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote:

I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which
is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way
through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item
by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and
heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder.
However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the
metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

===================================
If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently
this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e
bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium.
I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get
anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret.

Cic.
--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote:

I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which
is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way
through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item
by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and
heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder.
However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the
metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

===================================
If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently
this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e
bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium.
I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get
anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret.

Cic.

Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This
contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable
fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I
cannot solder it and the iron content explains the slight magnetism.
However, the data sheet states that the suitability for soldering is good.
Maybe it's a question of flux. Unfortunately, I still don't
have a downstairs toilet seat! - even superglue doesn't work. See:
http://www.anchorbronze.com/c95500.htm

Terry D.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 21:30:08 +0000, Terry D wrote:


"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote:

I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat
which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the
way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned
the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my
vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored
solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the
surface of the metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

===================================
If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently
this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e
bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of
aluminium. I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they
couldn't get anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret.

Cic.

Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This
contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable
fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I
cannot solder it and the iron content explains the slight magnetism.
However, the data sheet states that the suitability for soldering is good.
Maybe it's a question of flux. Unfortunately, I still don't have a
downstairs toilet seat! - even superglue doesn't work. See:
http://www.anchorbronze.com/c95500.htm

Terry D.

==================================
I wonder if the particular solder has anything to do with it? Lead solder
and lead-free solder may behave differently with your alloy.

Cic.

--
===================================
Using Ubuntu Linux
Windows shown the door
===================================

In message , Terry D
writes

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote:

I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which
is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way
through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item
by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and
heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder.
However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the
metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

===================================
If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently
this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e
bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of aluminium.
I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get
anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret.

Cic.

Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This
contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable
fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I
cannot solder it

Then try aluminium solder



--
geoff

On 4 Nov, 13:31, "Terry D" wrote:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

Dare I say it - why not replace the fittings?

"Zeke" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 4 Nov, 13:31, "Terry D" wrote:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which
is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating
the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no
matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

Dare I say it - why not replace the fittings?

I originally called out my plumber because of a leaking toilet seal and I
didn't feel too enthusiastic about doing the job myself. The toilet bowl
has also wobbled for years and I have been unable to tighten the screws.
Anyway, the plumber attempted to remove the screws and in front of my eyes
cracked the pan, then stated that I now needed a new toilet. The new toilet
was fitted the same day and is a good quality Twyford. Unfortunately this
was last Tuesday and he still hasn't returned to fit the seat. Fortunately
I have another toilet in the bathroom. I thought I would replace the
original seat (which is nice warm wood), but due to seized screws, I broke
the fitting. I have already priced new fittings on the internet.

Do you think I have any claim against the plumber for breaking the pan or
should I try claiming on my house insurance for the new toilet? I think I'm
due for a claim, having only made one claim in my entire life. It's time I
got some of my premiums back from these greedy insurance companies. The
evidence is still in my back garden.

I heard that my local police station had their toilet stolen recently. The
plods are investigating the crime but still have nothing to go on. Boom
Boom.

Terry D.

Terry D wrote:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.


Use plumbers flux.

Broadback wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Terry D" writes:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat
which is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all
the way through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly
cleaned the item by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated
jaws on my vice and heating the parts with a blowtorch before using
resin cored solder. However, no matter what the temperature, I
cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic?

It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll
need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by
the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't
have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area,
where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke
where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered
back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was
before it broke.

Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not
be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.


Brass most definitely CAN be soldered.


Whether its a good idea depends on the applications.

geoff wrote:
In message , Terry D
writes

"Cicero" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 13:31:38 +0000, Terry D wrote:

I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat
which
is broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way
through but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the
item
by wire brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and
heating the parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder.
However, no matter what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of
the
metal. Any ideas?

Terry D.

===================================
If it's quite old it might be something called 'Delta brass'. Apparently
this was (maybe still so) a special alloy made for the Delta tap (i.e
bathroom taps etc.) company and contained a high proportion of
aluminium.
I tried to get some brazed by a specialist firm and they couldn't get
anything to stick. Maybe it's a trade secret.

Cic.

Found after a Google search. Nickel aluminium bronze ref. CDA 955. This
contains 11% aluminium, 81% copper, 4% iron & 4% nickel. My unsolderable
fitting could be something similar. The aluminium content explains why I
cannot solder it

Then try aluminium solder



No try aluminium FLUX.

google Carrs for suppliers.

I have soldered aluminium succesfully with standard solder, but never
with standard *flux*.

On Nov 4, 2:30 pm, Broadback wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
"Terry D" writes:
I've been attempting to solder a small fitting from my toilet seat which is
broken in half. The item has the appearance of brass all the way through
but the solder will not take. I have thoroughly cleaned the item by wire
brushing and acetone. I am using insulated jaws on my vice and heating the
parts with a blowtorch before using resin cored solder. However, no matter
what the temperature, I cannot tin the surface of the metal. Any ideas?

A lot of brass is actually brass plated steel. Is it magnetic?

It sounds like you are using electrical solder. I think you'll
need plumbers flux as the brass will have likely oxidised by
the time you get the solder to melt on it. Soldering doesn't
have much strength (except sheer stress on a large contact area,
where is behaves as a composite). Chances are the brass broke
where the area is smallest, so even if you did get it soldered
back together, it would be nowhere near as strong as it was
before it broke.

Many years ago, when Adam was a lad, I was taught that brass could not
be soldered but was brazed, a higher heat being required.- Hide quoted text -


Tell that to all the modelmakers building etched brass kits.

MBQ