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Default Generator vs Mains

United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.
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Default Generator vs Mains


"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.


They will probably be going to use a fairly beefy generator which will be
well regulated with a fairly steady output, unlike small portable ones which
can wander and produce voltage spikes when load is suddenly removed.

If they are to be using the generator to power several properties it will
pretty big, to allow for the typical loads of cookers and showers that the
users may power.

Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your
computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against
under and overvoltage conditions.

Alan.


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Default Generator vs Mains


"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan

to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites,

mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.


Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the
Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre out
of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of
communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To restore a
very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon petrol
genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able to
run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever off
what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or so
field engineers on the road !

AWEM



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Default Generator vs Mains

TheOldFellow wrote:

United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?


The electricity supply where I live has been poor for years. Last summer
the utility shipped in generators and replaced all of the line through
the surrounding villages. The supply from the generators used over a
three month period was actually cleaner than the normal supply (as
clocked up by the software on my UPS that counts spikes and brownouts).

The major headache is at startup and shutdown on the generator which
causes massive surges. No worse than having the power go down/startup
during a storm though.


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Default Generator vs Mains

Alan wrote:


They will probably be going to use a fairly beefy generator which will be
well regulated with a fairly steady output, unlike small portable ones which
can wander and produce voltage spikes when load is suddenly removed.

If they are to be using the generator to power several properties it will
pretty big, to allow for the typical loads of cookers and showers that the
users may power.


Yep, the bigger generators have much more "spinning reserve" due to the
mass of them. They also use hefty copper wire in the windings which
helps voltage regulation. A totally different ball game to the cheap
domestic generators that are really only OK for steady loads
considerably below their quoted output, or for appliances that do not
really care about the quality of the mains.

Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your
computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against
under and overvoltage conditions.


Good advice.

I would hang a multimeter on the mains and monitor voltage excursions
while the work was being done... just in case.

Steve.


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Default Generator vs Mains

On 10 Apr, 14:29, TheOldFellow wrote:

United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.


Unfortunately yes. It all depends on the gen and the load. A small gen
will create huge inductive kicks, and I would be wary of putting a
computer on one. OTOH a big industrial thing running lots of other
loads has aall those other loads to absorb the inductive surges that
all generators produce.

Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies
I would use them.

Gens are generally nowhere near as reliable in any respect as mains,
re uptime, waveform, voltage or freedom from voltage surges.


NT

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Default Generator vs Mains


wrote in message
ups.com...
On 10 Apr, 14:29, TheOldFellow wrote:

United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.


Unfortunately yes. It all depends on the gen and the load. A small gen
will create huge inductive kicks, and I would be wary of putting a
computer on one. OTOH a big industrial thing running lots of other
loads has aall those other loads to absorb the inductive surges that
all generators produce.

Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies
I would use them.


Why do you say that surge protectors are a waste of time?

I suppose that, in a way they are, because my computer was damaged by a big
spike that the surge protector didn't stop. On the other hand though, it was
a Belkin one that came with an insurance-backed guarantee and they did pay
up to replace my computer - so, no, it didn't do its job as it should have
done but it didn't cost me a penny to get my computer replaced and from that
point of view, well worth the money it cost to buy it.

John


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Default Generator vs Mains

In message , TheOldFellow
writes
The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites,
mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be
much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent
thread.


The generator output will be pretty stable. Your equipment should be
fine.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com
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Default Generator vs Mains

On 10 Apr, 17:53, "John" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...

Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies
I would use them.


Why do you say that surge protectors are a waste of time?


You're talking about connecting a tiny resistance device across a
mains network that has an impedance orders of magnitude lower, and
with other loads on capable of absorbing orders of magnitude more
current.

And using this to supposedly protect appliances that have the
protection they need built in already, and you guessed it, that buit
in protection is at least an order of magnitude more effective.

The things are less useful than dog turd.


I suppose that, in a way they are, because my computer was damaged by a big
spike that the surge protector didn't stop. On the other hand though, it was
a Belkin one that came with an insurance-backed guarantee and they did pay
up to replace my computer - so, no, it didn't do its job as it should have
done but it didn't cost me a penny to get my computer replaced and from that
point of view, well worth the money it cost to buy it.

John


Most of us already have contents insurance, so theres no point buying
that twice. You were lucky if you got paid.


NT

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Default Generator vs Mains

On 2007-04-10 15:12:26 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
said:


"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan

to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites,

mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.


Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the
Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre out
of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of
communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To restore a
very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon petrol
genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able to
run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever off
what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or so
field engineers on the road !

AWEM


So *that's* how they save money in Mumbai....




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Default Generator vs Mains


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On 2007-04-10 15:12:26 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
said:


"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and

plan
to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them

I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that

this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites,

mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much

more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?

R.


Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the
Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre

out
of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of
communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To

restore a
very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon

petrol
genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able

to
run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever

off
what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or

so
field engineers on the road !

AWEM


So *that's* how they save money in Mumbai....



They have ROADS in Mumbai ?? G

AWEM


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"TheOldFellow" wrote in message
...
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I
thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this
might last longer than expected, hence the generator.

The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver
etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more
spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread.

Does anyone have any experience?


If its a nice 1500rpm of say greater than 15KVA with electronic AVR then
you'll be fine...

Tim..


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Default Generator vs Mains

On 2007-04-10 20:42:57 +0100, Owain said:

Andrew Mawson wrote:
They have ROADS in Mumbai ?? G


Yes, didn't we give them roads?


That was the Romans and the only reason was to avoid conerher utility shops.



Along with a rail network and a civil service.


India is up there as well. Rail network is seconf largest employer
after cinese army.




Owain



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On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:29:39 +0100, TheOldFellow wrote:

United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day.


Just your property or a number of neighbouring ones?

I suspect the latter, as to the generator I'd expect a containerised genny
in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Maybe even
bigger depending on the properties they are going to run from it. They
aren't going to bring an a £150 2kVA open frame site generator...

Does anyone have any experience?


Everytime I go to work on an TV outside broadcast the vehicles are
invariably run of a generator. These days the genny is a 250 kVA twinset
(two engines and generators running together to provide spinning hot spare
for each other). Now a modern HD TV Outside Broadcast truck costs
millions, and has all manner of what would be called "sensitive"
electronics, along with some "nasty" loads such as big aircon units. Pump
10kW+ into a space not much bigger than a couple of living rooms and you
need serious air con to keep it cool.

There is very rarely a "problem with power", these gensets are very
stable, even when powering lighting as well with big (20kW+) on/off/on
load variations.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-04-10 20:42:57 +0100, Owain said:

Andrew Mawson wrote:
They have ROADS in Mumbai ?? G

Yes, didn't we give them roads?


That was the Romans and the only reason was to avoid conerher utility shops.


Along with a rail network and a civil service.


India is up there as well. Rail network is seconf largest employer
after cinese army.

Indian railway - Delhi ...

go to main station, check availability, get chit signed

Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed

go back the next day, pay for tickets

return to station to show tickets and reserve seats

Prolly changed by now

--
geoff


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On 10 Apr, 23:35, Lurch wrote:
On 10 Apr 2007 10:14:07 -0700, mused:


Most of us already have contents insurance, so theres no point buying
that twice. You were lucky if you got paid.


If your UPS\surge protector manufacturer pays out for damaged
equipment then it saves your NCB so why would you want to use your own
insurance when someone else provides some?


Yes, quite so. But that still doesnt make it worthwhile.

a) You've got insurance, so you choose to buy a 2nd insurance policy
so you dont have to claim on the first.

b) Insurance policies arent normally worth it, except in cases where
loss would cause serious consequential problems or be unrecoverable
from. This is why we all have house & car insurance...

and why other insurances are net money sinks. Insurance cos have to
make a profit after all, as well as cover operating costs, as well as
shuffle peoples money around.


NT

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In article ,
raden writes:
Indian railway - Delhi ...

go to main station, check availability, get chit signed

Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed

go back the next day, pay for tickets

return to station to show tickets and reserve seats


I had a similar experience in the former Yogoslavia.
The hardest part was getting from the station entrance
to the ticket window, as the whole station concorse
was completely covered in the homeless sleeping on
the floor. It was cold, and they were packed in like
sardines both because of their sheer numbers, and
probably to help keep warm. There was nowhere to
put your foot down without stepping on someone.
I'd never seen anything like it.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]
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"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:29:39 +0100, TheOldFellow wrote:

United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day.


Just your property or a number of neighbouring ones?

I suspect the latter, as to the generator I'd expect a containerised genny
in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Maybe even
bigger depending on the properties they are going to run from it. They
aren't going to bring an a £150 2kVA open frame site generator...


Nice aren't they?
Unless they stick it under your bedroom window and run it all night. The one
I had shoved under the bedroom window was like a "burger stall trailer" seen
on road laybys and then they ran extension leads down to the YE sub main in
my back garden. I guess it was the 11kV model.

Adam

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In message , Owain
writes
raden wrote:
Indian railway - Delhi ...
go to main station, check availability, get chit signed
Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed
go back the next day, pay for tickets
return to station to show tickets and reserve seats


Reserve seats?

You were obviously travelling Super Luxury Foreigner Class.


Super luxury foreigner 3rd class IIRC


Next you'll be saying these seats were inside the carriage not on the roof.

It used to be like that in Aberystwyth, except they'd usually run out
of chits.

Owain



--
geoff
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On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:38:57 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:

I'd expect a containerised genny in 6x4x12 foot box capable of
producing upwards of 100kVA.


Nice aren't they?


Not particulary quiet though, compared to the TV/Film generators I'm used
to.

Unless they stick it under your bedroom window and run it all night.


That would not be nice. I wouldn't like a TV/Film generator parked outside
running all night. You'd get used to it as they are fairly quiet, you can
hold a normal conversation next to it no problem. Containerised ones are
fairly loud, you have to shout to hold a conversation...

I guess it was the 11kV model.


Yes, there was an incident near Leeds in the last couple of months, couple
of poles snapped off like match sticks. Generator brought in, long jump
leads to croc clips attached directly to the 11kV overhead line.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail



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On 2007-04-10 23:39:19 +0100, Owain said:

raden wrote:
Indian railway - Delhi ...
go to main station, check availability, get chit signed
Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed
go back the next day, pay for tickets
return to station to show tickets and reserve seats


Reserve seats?

You were obviously travelling Super Luxury Foreigner Class.

Next you'll be saying these seats were inside the carriage not on the roof.

It used to be like that in Aberystwyth, except they'd usually run out of chits.

Owain


I thought that there were a lot of visitors from the west Midlands....
oh, sorry.... chits.....



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"Alan" wrote in message
...


Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your
computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect
against under and overvoltage conditions.


That does rather depend if it's an on-line or off-line UPS.




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On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:31:27 UTC, "Fred" wrote:


"Alan" wrote in message
...


Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your
computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect
against under and overvoltage conditions.


That does rather depend if it's an on-line or off-line UPS.


Why?

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