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Generator vs Mains
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to
replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. |
Generator vs Mains
"TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. They will probably be going to use a fairly beefy generator which will be well regulated with a fairly steady output, unlike small portable ones which can wander and produce voltage spikes when load is suddenly removed. If they are to be using the generator to power several properties it will pretty big, to allow for the typical loads of cookers and showers that the users may power. Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against under and overvoltage conditions. Alan. |
Generator vs Mains
"TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre out of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To restore a very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon petrol genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able to run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever off what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or so field engineers on the road ! AWEM |
Generator vs Mains
TheOldFellow wrote:
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? The electricity supply where I live has been poor for years. Last summer the utility shipped in generators and replaced all of the line through the surrounding villages. The supply from the generators used over a three month period was actually cleaner than the normal supply (as clocked up by the software on my UPS that counts spikes and brownouts). The major headache is at startup and shutdown on the generator which causes massive surges. No worse than having the power go down/startup during a storm though. |
Generator vs Mains
Alan wrote:
They will probably be going to use a fairly beefy generator which will be well regulated with a fairly steady output, unlike small portable ones which can wander and produce voltage spikes when load is suddenly removed. If they are to be using the generator to power several properties it will pretty big, to allow for the typical loads of cookers and showers that the users may power. Yep, the bigger generators have much more "spinning reserve" due to the mass of them. They also use hefty copper wire in the windings which helps voltage regulation. A totally different ball game to the cheap domestic generators that are really only OK for steady loads considerably below their quoted output, or for appliances that do not really care about the quality of the mains. Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against under and overvoltage conditions. Good advice. I would hang a multimeter on the mains and monitor voltage excursions while the work was being done... just in case. Steve. |
Generator vs Mains
On 10 Apr, 14:29, TheOldFellow wrote:
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. Unfortunately yes. It all depends on the gen and the load. A small gen will create huge inductive kicks, and I would be wary of putting a computer on one. OTOH a big industrial thing running lots of other loads has aall those other loads to absorb the inductive surges that all generators produce. Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies I would use them. Gens are generally nowhere near as reliable in any respect as mains, re uptime, waveform, voltage or freedom from voltage surges. NT |
Generator vs Mains
wrote in message ups.com... On 10 Apr, 14:29, TheOldFellow wrote: United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. Unfortunately yes. It all depends on the gen and the load. A small gen will create huge inductive kicks, and I would be wary of putting a computer on one. OTOH a big industrial thing running lots of other loads has aall those other loads to absorb the inductive surges that all generators produce. Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies I would use them. Why do you say that surge protectors are a waste of time? I suppose that, in a way they are, because my computer was damaged by a big spike that the surge protector didn't stop. On the other hand though, it was a Belkin one that came with an insurance-backed guarantee and they did pay up to replace my computer - so, no, it didn't do its job as it should have done but it didn't cost me a penny to get my computer replaced and from that point of view, well worth the money it cost to buy it. John |
Generator vs Mains
In message , TheOldFellow
writes The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. The generator output will be pretty stable. Your equipment should be fine. -- Clive Mitchell http://www.bigclive.com |
Generator vs Mains
On 10 Apr, 17:53, "John" wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... Although surge absorbers are a total waste of time on main, on gennies I would use them. Why do you say that surge protectors are a waste of time? You're talking about connecting a tiny resistance device across a mains network that has an impedance orders of magnitude lower, and with other loads on capable of absorbing orders of magnitude more current. And using this to supposedly protect appliances that have the protection they need built in already, and you guessed it, that buit in protection is at least an order of magnitude more effective. The things are less useful than dog turd. I suppose that, in a way they are, because my computer was damaged by a big spike that the surge protector didn't stop. On the other hand though, it was a Belkin one that came with an insurance-backed guarantee and they did pay up to replace my computer - so, no, it didn't do its job as it should have done but it didn't cost me a penny to get my computer replaced and from that point of view, well worth the money it cost to buy it. John Most of us already have contents insurance, so theres no point buying that twice. You were lucky if you got paid. NT |
Generator vs Mains
On 2007-04-10 15:12:26 +0100, "Andrew Mawson"
said: "TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre out of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To restore a very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon petrol genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able to run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever off what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or so field engineers on the road ! AWEM So *that's* how they save money in Mumbai.... |
Generator vs Mains
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 2007-04-10 15:12:26 +0100, "Andrew Mawson" said: "TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? R. Some years back a workman put a JCB through the main feed into the Industrial Estate that I had a unit on. This put our call centre out of business which comprised 6 girls using PCs and various bits of communications kit, telephone exchange, photocopier etc. To restore a very basic service I hopped home and got out my 2.2KW markon petrol genny. Bringing things back on one by one I was amazed to be able to run the entire call centre all day with no ill effects whatsoever off what was a VERY unsophisticated genny. At least it kept the 70 or so field engineers on the road ! AWEM So *that's* how they save money in Mumbai.... They have ROADS in Mumbai ?? G AWEM |
Generator vs Mains
"TheOldFellow" wrote in message ... United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Rather good of them I thought, last time they just cut me off. My suspicion is that this might last longer than expected, hence the generator. The question is, though, do I keep my computers on (websites, mailserver etc)? My suspicion is that the generator is likely to be much more spiky and I don't trust surge protection after the recent thread. Does anyone have any experience? If its a nice 1500rpm of say greater than 15KVA with electronic AVR then you'll be fine... Tim.. |
Generator vs Mains
On 2007-04-10 20:42:57 +0100, Owain said:
Andrew Mawson wrote: They have ROADS in Mumbai ?? G Yes, didn't we give them roads? That was the Romans and the only reason was to avoid conerher utility shops. Along with a rail network and a civil service. India is up there as well. Rail network is seconf largest employer after cinese army. Owain |
Generator vs Mains
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:29:39 +0100, TheOldFellow wrote:
United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Just your property or a number of neighbouring ones? I suspect the latter, as to the generator I'd expect a containerised genny in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Maybe even bigger depending on the properties they are going to run from it. They aren't going to bring an a £150 2kVA open frame site generator... Does anyone have any experience? Everytime I go to work on an TV outside broadcast the vehicles are invariably run of a generator. These days the genny is a 250 kVA twinset (two engines and generators running together to provide spinning hot spare for each other). Now a modern HD TV Outside Broadcast truck costs millions, and has all manner of what would be called "sensitive" electronics, along with some "nasty" loads such as big aircon units. Pump 10kW+ into a space not much bigger than a couple of living rooms and you need serious air con to keep it cool. There is very rarely a "problem with power", these gensets are very stable, even when powering lighting as well with big (20kW+) on/off/on load variations. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
Generator vs Mains
In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-04-10 20:42:57 +0100, Owain said: Andrew Mawson wrote: They have ROADS in Mumbai ?? G Yes, didn't we give them roads? That was the Romans and the only reason was to avoid conerher utility shops. Along with a rail network and a civil service. India is up there as well. Rail network is seconf largest employer after cinese army. Indian railway - Delhi ... go to main station, check availability, get chit signed Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed go back the next day, pay for tickets return to station to show tickets and reserve seats Prolly changed by now -- geoff |
Generator vs Mains
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Generator vs Mains
On 10 Apr, 23:35, Lurch wrote:
On 10 Apr 2007 10:14:07 -0700, mused: Most of us already have contents insurance, so theres no point buying that twice. You were lucky if you got paid. If your UPS\surge protector manufacturer pays out for damaged equipment then it saves your NCB so why would you want to use your own insurance when someone else provides some? Yes, quite so. But that still doesnt make it worthwhile. a) You've got insurance, so you choose to buy a 2nd insurance policy so you dont have to claim on the first. b) Insurance policies arent normally worth it, except in cases where loss would cause serious consequential problems or be unrecoverable from. This is why we all have house & car insurance... and why other insurances are net money sinks. Insurance cos have to make a profit after all, as well as cover operating costs, as well as shuffle peoples money around. NT |
Generator vs Mains
In article ,
raden writes: Indian railway - Delhi ... go to main station, check availability, get chit signed Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed go back the next day, pay for tickets return to station to show tickets and reserve seats I had a similar experience in the former Yogoslavia. The hardest part was getting from the station entrance to the ticket window, as the whole station concorse was completely covered in the homeless sleeping on the floor. It was cold, and they were packed in like sardines both because of their sheer numbers, and probably to help keep warm. There was nowhere to put your foot down without stepping on someone. I'd never seen anything like it. -- Andrew Gabriel [email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup] |
Generator vs Mains
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message ll.com... On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:29:39 +0100, TheOldFellow wrote: United Utilities are going to do some work here next week and plan to replace my mains with a generator for a day. Just your property or a number of neighbouring ones? I suspect the latter, as to the generator I'd expect a containerised genny in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Maybe even bigger depending on the properties they are going to run from it. They aren't going to bring an a £150 2kVA open frame site generator... Nice aren't they? Unless they stick it under your bedroom window and run it all night. The one I had shoved under the bedroom window was like a "burger stall trailer" seen on road laybys and then they ran extension leads down to the YE sub main in my back garden. I guess it was the 11kV model. Adam |
Generator vs Mains
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Generator vs Mains
In message , Owain
writes raden wrote: Indian railway - Delhi ... go to main station, check availability, get chit signed Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed go back the next day, pay for tickets return to station to show tickets and reserve seats Reserve seats? You were obviously travelling Super Luxury Foreigner Class. Super luxury foreigner 3rd class IIRC Next you'll be saying these seats were inside the carriage not on the roof. It used to be like that in Aberystwyth, except they'd usually run out of chits. Owain -- geoff |
Generator vs Mains
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:38:57 GMT, ARWadsworth wrote:
I'd expect a containerised genny in 6x4x12 foot box capable of producing upwards of 100kVA. Nice aren't they? Not particulary quiet though, compared to the TV/Film generators I'm used to. Unless they stick it under your bedroom window and run it all night. That would not be nice. I wouldn't like a TV/Film generator parked outside running all night. You'd get used to it as they are fairly quiet, you can hold a normal conversation next to it no problem. Containerised ones are fairly loud, you have to shout to hold a conversation... I guess it was the 11kV model. Yes, there was an incident near Leeds in the last couple of months, couple of poles snapped off like match sticks. Generator brought in, long jump leads to croc clips attached directly to the 11kV overhead line. -- Cheers Dave. pam is missing e-mail |
Generator vs Mains
On 2007-04-10 23:39:19 +0100, Owain said:
raden wrote: Indian railway - Delhi ... go to main station, check availability, get chit signed Go to booking office halfway across the city ... closed go back the next day, pay for tickets return to station to show tickets and reserve seats Reserve seats? You were obviously travelling Super Luxury Foreigner Class. Next you'll be saying these seats were inside the carriage not on the roof. It used to be like that in Aberystwyth, except they'd usually run out of chits. Owain I thought that there were a lot of visitors from the west Midlands.... oh, sorry.... chits..... |
Generator vs Mains
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Generator vs Mains
"Alan" wrote in message ... Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against under and overvoltage conditions. That does rather depend if it's an on-line or off-line UPS. |
Generator vs Mains
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:31:27 UTC, "Fred" wrote:
"Alan" wrote in message ... Therefore the quality of the supply will probably be fine for your computers, especially if they are fed through UPSs which can protect against under and overvoltage conditions. That does rather depend if it's an on-line or off-line UPS. Why? -- The information contained in this post is copyright the poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by http://www.diybanter.com |
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