Dear ALl

My request is about foundations for an extension I am planning, at this
stage I am just looking for pointers so I can have a sensible chat with
the building inspector, prior to creating any plans.
Sorry if this post is a little long, but I need to explain my ideas
A picture to illustrate this conversation can be found at the following
address

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~awelham/Foundations.gif

I am looking to build a single story extension in the shape of an L
round my house.
I want to build right up against my boundaries (which are shown by the
thicker lines along the sides of each drawing

The picture on the left shown my ideas for foundations and the one on
the right shown the room layout (excluding external entrances)

I want to do this building three phases
- Room 1 first
- The new garage
- Room 2&3

This is for a number of reasons, including breaking the build down into
three separate phases, and most importantly there is currently a garage
where room 2 is going to be located.


I want to build right up again my boundaries and I understand that I
can’t build using trench foundations as if I don’t build in the centre
of the foundation they will rotate over time. For this reason I am
considering slab foundations for the part closest to the house and then
traditional trench foundations on the other side of the drain pipe. I
understand that slab foundations are usually at ground level as the slab
also forms the floor of the building, how ever in my case I want finish
the slab at the same level as the top of the trench foundations, and I
will them create a raided floor over the entire area. This is not only
warmer, but also created a nice place to locate pipes and cables.

To bridge foundations (over the drain pipe) I am considering using
lintels (The strongest possible). I am looking to building above
building code where ever possible to ensure maximum strength in the
building.

The 2nd Slab would form the garage floor with a single wall no insulated.
I don’t intent to park a car in the garage, but instead use the space to
store my tools etc. For this use is a garage the best designation for
this type of building?
There would also be short walls to form the back and front of the garage.

Finally comes slab 3 & trench 3 used to form room 2. By completing the
wall in trench 3 then room 3 will automatically be built.

Now I have explained my ideas I have the following questions.

1. Is a garage the best designation for the use described above?
2. Confirmation I can build on the edge of a slab?
3. I am a little concerned especially with the garage ahat all the load
will be on the wall opposite the house, is this still ok, ??? or will
the slab rotate ?
4. Should I be using any additional additives in the concrete? I have
heard of some fibres which are stronger than re bar, is this correct /
advisable?
5. Can I mix slabs and trench foundations in the same build? (If so what
do I need to consider) re bars????
6. Can I build a trench foundation in a number of distinct phases i.e.
trench 1 & 3 which will eventually form a single trench, should I use
re bar to ensure the concrete strength is retained along the join?
7. Is what I have described a recommended method? If not what are the
alternatives
8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary without
impacting the neighbours land?
9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see this??


Thanks

Andrew

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Andrew Welham wrote:
Dear ALl

My request is about foundations for an extension I am planning, at
this stage I am just looking for pointers so I can have a sensible
chat with the building inspector, prior to creating any plans.
Sorry if this post is a little long, but I need to explain my ideas
A picture to illustrate this conversation can be found at the
following address

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~awelham/Foundations.gif

I am looking to build a single story extension in the shape of an L
round my house.
I want to build right up against my boundaries (which are shown by the
thicker lines along the sides of each drawing

The picture on the left shown my ideas for foundations and the one on
the right shown the room layout (excluding external entrances)

I want to do this building three phases
- Room 1 first
- The new garage
- Room 2&3

This is for a number of reasons, including breaking the build down
into three separate phases, and most importantly there is currently a
garage where room 2 is going to be located.


I want to build right up again my boundaries and I understand that I
can’t build using trench foundations as if I don’t build in the centre
of the foundation they will rotate over time. For this reason I am
considering slab foundations for the part closest to the house and
then traditional trench foundations on the other side of the drain
pipe. I understand that slab foundations are usually at ground level
as the slab also forms the floor of the building, how ever in my case
I want finish the slab at the same level as the top of the trench
foundations, and I will them create a raided floor over the entire
area. This is not only warmer, but also created a nice place to
locate pipes and cables.

Have you recently won the lottery?

To bridge foundations (over the drain pipe) I am considering using
lintels (The strongest possible). I am looking to building above
building code where ever possible to ensure maximum strength in the
building.

The 2nd Slab would form the garage floor with a single wall no
insulated. I don’t intent to park a car in the garage, but instead
use the space to store my tools etc. For this use is a garage the
best designation for this type of building?
There would also be short walls to form the back and front of the
garage.
Finally comes slab 3 & trench 3 used to form room 2. By completing the
wall in trench 3 then room 3 will automatically be built.

Now I have explained my ideas I have the following questions.

1. Is a garage the best designation for the use described above?

I don't understand this question.

2. Confirmation I can build on the edge of a slab?

By 'slab' I presume you mean raft? - why are yopu contemplating using a
raft, then using block and beam floors over the top, coupled with trench
foundations at one side?

3. I am a little concerned especially with the garage ahat all the
load will be on the wall opposite the house, is this still ok, ??? or
will the slab rotate ?

If it ends up going on a raft, the raft will cover the entire area and will
also incorporate a 'toe' - a huge concrete counterbalance on the opposite
side.

4. Should I be using any additional additives in the concrete? I have
heard of some fibres which are stronger than re bar, is this correct /
advisable?

The person who designs the raft will also design the steel that goes into
it, it will need to be mechanically shaped, bent and sometimes welded into
the shape of the concrete which is to be poured - all the concrete has to go
in on the same day - you can't do it in sections.

5. Can I mix slabs and trench foundations in the same build? (If so
what do I need to consider) re bars????

see above

6. Can I build a trench foundation in a number of distinct phases i.e.
trench 1 & 3 which will eventually form a single trench, should I use
re bar to ensure the concrete strength is retained along the join?

You can but they don't like it, it isn't as strong as one long trench and
one continuous run of concrete.

7. Is what I have described a recommended method? If not what are the
alternatives

Just about everything you have thought of so far is the most expensive, time
consuming and outright unnecesary

8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary without
impacting the neighbours land?

Build on trench footings, you may lose six inches, but this raft will cost
you at least 20 grand more than strips

9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see this??


He'll tell you to cover the drains which run through the proposed building
with concrete, and he means they have to be completely encased in it...what
would be a thousand times easier would be to dig your back trench twice the
width and run a new plastic drain from one side to the other, then connect
up to the two existing drains at either side thn the drains are not under
your building at all, extra cost = about £150

Andrew Welham wrote:

8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary without
impacting the neighbours land?
9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see this??

I will let others answer the rest of the questions but you will need to
consider the implications of the Party Wall Act since you want to build so
close to your neighbour assuming his house is also close to the boundary.
Details are here

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1996/1996040.htm

The effect of the Act is to ensure that any work you do is done a in
satisfactory way and does not cause problems to your neighbour. You have to
pay all the costs associated with the Act.

Peter Crosland

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:05:30 +0100, Owain
wrote:

|Andrew Welham wrote:
| I am looking to building above
| building code where ever possible to ensure maximum strength in the
| building.
|
|Why?
|
|And we don't have "building code" in this country; we have Building
|Regulations (or in Scotland, Building Standards).
|
| 9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see this??
|
|They'll want to see your plans, calculations, concrete specifications,
|and result of trial pit excavations. They'll probably want an
|architect's or structural engineer's stamp on them as well.

I remember finding a Building Inspector down a foundation trench, shoveling
the soil which had the consistency of heavy cornflakes (shale of made up
ground) I took his advice to put in a reinforced raft, like the rest of
the house. Do not believe anything till you have a hole.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Peter Crosland wrote:
Andrew Welham wrote:

8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary without
impacting the neighbours land?
9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see this??

I will let others answer the rest of the questions but you will need to
consider the implications of the Party Wall Act since you want to build so
close to your neighbour assuming his house is also close to the boundary.
Details are here

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1996/1996040.htm

The effect of the Act is to ensure that any work you do is done a in
satisfactory way and does not cause problems to your neighbour. You have to
pay all the costs associated with the Act.

Peter Crosland


First of all apologies for using the wrong terms, I have not been
involved in this type of work before.

There are a number of reasons for my original (maybe flawed) thinking:
The drain pipe runs behind all the houses in my road collecting sewage
from each house as it goes. Therefore in order to redirect the pipe I
need to dig up my garage and the neighbours patios on each side. My
intention is to cause as little impact to my neighbours as possible &
and not remove the old garage until later in the built. For the above
reasons I don’t think the pipe can be re routed.

A statement was made that I will need to cover the entire pipes in
concrete, does this mean I will need to lower the man holes an cover
them as well ??? Basically meaning there will be no access to the pipes
from my land in the future?

There are two reasons I am considering rafts.
1. To get maximum utilisation of space
2. More importantly, if I don’t use rafts the wall on the right hand
side (from the house) of room one will join the house at the frame of
the patio door, and I’m not sure how I would tie the wall to the house?
Would I be allowed to extend the wall which once held the patio door to
fill the gap. I would have thought this would have been a point of weakness?

I plan to do this work my self, and therefore would be interested to
understand why using rafts would cost an additional 20K????

The questions about the designation of a garage. The reason for this
question is that I believe if the building is designated as living area
then I need to build cavity walls, but for a garage I only need a single
layer wall. Also the roof designs are different warn vs. cold.

Ideally I would like to build a single layer wall (cold roof), but
without all the additional requirements for a garage such as fire doors,
12 inch step to stop patrol fumes rising. As I won’t be storing a car in
the building.

Lastly I didn’t win the lottery just learning about building.

Many Thanks

Andrew


--
To reply via email, first reverse the address below then replace the
(at) with @ and the (dot) with .
ku(tod)em(tod)mahlew(ta)spuorgswen

Andrew Welham wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:
Andrew Welham wrote:

8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary
without impacting the neighbours land?
9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see
this??

I will let others answer the rest of the questions but you will need
to consider the implications of the Party Wall Act since you want to
build so close to your neighbour assuming his house is also close to
the boundary. Details are here

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1996/1996040.htm

The effect of the Act is to ensure that any work you do is done a in
satisfactory way and does not cause problems to your neighbour. You
have to pay all the costs associated with the Act.

Peter Crosland


First of all apologies for using the wrong terms, I have not been
involved in this type of work before.

Aplogies for being 'terse' but my nobbies[1] are crippling me

There are a number of reasons for my original (maybe flawed) thinking:
The drain pipe runs behind all the houses in my road collecting sewage
from each house as it goes. Therefore in order to redirect the pipe I
need to dig up my garage and the neighbours patios on each side. My
intention is to cause as little impact to my neighbours as possible &
and not remove the old garage until later in the built. For the above
reasons I don’t think the pipe can be re routed.


A few questions he
1) how do you know that the drain runs along this line?
2) how far from the house is it?
3) where is your existing garage

A statement was made that I will need to cover the entire pipes in
concrete, does this mean I will need to lower the man holes an cover
them as well ??? Basically meaning there will be no access to the
pipes from my land in the future?

If there are manholes there, they will need to stay there (in the middle of
your room(s), hence my advice to sling the lot and start from scratch,
unless you want someone to start removing carpets and rodding sewage out of
your house in years to come - manholes are there for one reason - to remove
blockages) - even if you go down this route, the actual pipes will still
require to be encased in concrete.

There are two reasons I am considering rafts.
1. To get maximum utilisation of space

It's not worth it.

2. More importantly, if I don’t use rafts the wall on the right hand
side (from the house) of room one will join the house at the frame of
the patio door, and I’m not sure how I would tie the wall to the
house? Would I be allowed to extend the wall which once held the
patio door to fill the gap. I would have thought this would have been
a point of weakness?
It doesn't matter where it joins onto the house, pillars will be built and
tied into existing brickwork.

I plan to do this work my self, and therefore would be interested to
understand why using rafts would cost an additional 20K????

You don't mention the meterage of the area you want to build on, but a raft
is a lot of work and a lot of muck has to come out, more importantly a lot
of concrete has to go back in, even doing it in one big raft would be
extremely costly but you want to do it in 3 stages, making it triply so.


The questions about the designation of a garage. The reason for this
question is that I believe if the building is designated as living
area then I need to build cavity walls, but for a garage I only need
a single layer wall. Also the roof designs are different warn vs.
cold.

For the amount you would save by not insulating the walls and roof, I
wouldn't bother, and a single skinned wall will get damp eventually for the
sake of a few hundred quids worth of blocks and fibreglass.

Ideally I would like to build a single layer wall (cold roof), but
without all the additional requirements for a garage such as fire
doors, 12 inch step to stop patrol fumes rising. As I won’t be
storing a car in the building.

That can be avoided by not having a garage door on the front, then it's just
a workshop

Lastly I didn’t win the lottery just learning about building.


Don't approach the building inspector for a chat with these ideas, firstly
he won't listen to you until your plans have been submitted, and secondly,
you need to get proper plans drawn up by a competent person, but doing it in
seperate stages will escalate the costs through the roof, you are basically
proposing to build 3 seperate extensions

Phil L wrote:
Andrew Welham wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:
Andrew Welham wrote:

8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary
without impacting the neighbours land?
9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see
this??

I will let others answer the rest of the questions but you will need
to consider the implications of the Party Wall Act since you want to
build so close to your neighbour assuming his house is also close to
the boundary. Details are here

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1996/1996040.htm

The effect of the Act is to ensure that any work you do is done a in
satisfactory way and does not cause problems to your neighbour. You
have to pay all the costs associated with the Act.

Peter Crosland


First of all apologies for using the wrong terms, I have not been
involved in this type of work before.

Aplogies for being 'terse' but my nobbies[1] are crippling me

There are a number of reasons for my original (maybe flawed)
thinking: The drain pipe runs behind all the houses in my road
collecting sewage from each house as it goes. Therefore in order to
redirect the pipe I need to dig up my garage and the neighbours
patios on each side. My intention is to cause as little impact to my
neighbours as possible & and not remove the old garage until later
in the built. For the above reasons I don’t think the pipe can be re
routed.

A few questions he
1) how do you know that the drain runs along this line?
2) how far from the house is it?
3) where is your existing garage

A statement was made that I will need to cover the entire pipes in
concrete, does this mean I will need to lower the man holes an cover
them as well ??? Basically meaning there will be no access to the
pipes from my land in the future?

If there are manholes there, they will need to stay there (in the
middle of your room(s), hence my advice to sling the lot and start
from scratch, unless you want someone to start removing carpets and
rodding sewage out of your house in years to come - manholes are
there for one reason - to remove blockages) - even if you go down
this route, the actual pipes will still require to be encased in
concrete.
There are two reasons I am considering rafts.
1. To get maximum utilisation of space

It's not worth it.

2. More importantly, if I don’t use rafts the wall on the right hand
side (from the house) of room one will join the house at the frame of
the patio door, and I’m not sure how I would tie the wall to the
house? Would I be allowed to extend the wall which once held the
patio door to fill the gap. I would have thought this would have been
a point of weakness?
It doesn't matter where it joins onto the house, pillars will be
built and tied into existing brickwork.

I plan to do this work my self, and therefore would be interested to
understand why using rafts would cost an additional 20K????

You don't mention the meterage of the area you want to build on, but
a raft is a lot of work and a lot of muck has to come out, more
importantly a lot of concrete has to go back in, even doing it in one
big raft would be extremely costly but you want to do it in 3 stages,
making it triply so.

The questions about the designation of a garage. The reason for this
question is that I believe if the building is designated as living
area then I need to build cavity walls, but for a garage I only need
a single layer wall. Also the roof designs are different warn vs.
cold.

For the amount you would save by not insulating the walls and roof, I
wouldn't bother, and a single skinned wall will get damp eventually
for the sake of a few hundred quids worth of blocks and fibreglass.

Ideally I would like to build a single layer wall (cold roof), but
without all the additional requirements for a garage such as fire
doors, 12 inch step to stop patrol fumes rising. As I won’t be
storing a car in the building.

That can be avoided by not having a garage door on the front, then
it's just a workshop

Lastly I didn’t win the lottery just learning about building.


Don't approach the building inspector for a chat with these ideas,
firstly he won't listen to you until your plans have been submitted,
and secondly, you need to get proper plans drawn up by a competent
person, but doing it in seperate stages will escalate the costs
through the roof, you are basically proposing to build 3 seperate
extensions

[1]
Nobbies - Nobby Stiles = piles

Phil L wrote:
Andrew Welham wrote:
Peter Crosland wrote:
Andrew Welham wrote:

8. Is there any other way to build right up against a boundary
without impacting the neighbours land?
9. Any concerns the building inspector would have when they see
this??
I will let others answer the rest of the questions but you will need
to consider the implications of the Party Wall Act since you want to
build so close to your neighbour assuming his house is also close to
the boundary. Details are here

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1996/1996040.htm

The effect of the Act is to ensure that any work you do is done a in
satisfactory way and does not cause problems to your neighbour. You
have to pay all the costs associated with the Act.

Peter Crosland


First of all apologies for using the wrong terms, I have not been
involved in this type of work before.

Aplogies for being 'terse' but my nobbies[1] are crippling me
There are a number of reasons for my original (maybe flawed) thinking:
The drain pipe runs behind all the houses in my road collecting sewage
from each house as it goes. Therefore in order to redirect the pipe I
need to dig up my garage and the neighbours patios on each side. My
intention is to cause as little impact to my neighbours as possible &
and not remove the old garage until later in the built. For the above
reasons I don’t think the pipe can be re routed.


A few questions he
1) how do you know that the drain runs along this line?

all the neighbors have drains in similar positions and i have seen the
drain on the council plans.


2) how far from the house is it?

each of the man holes is approx 270CM from the house at their closest
point, and are running with the long side of the man hole parallel to
the house. I was considering having the wall parallel with the house at
about that point, but unfortunately the drains are in the way so i was
going to go just the other side of the man hole covers.


3) where is your existing garage

see the new link
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~awel...undations2.gif


A statement was made that I will need to cover the entire pipes in
concrete, does this mean I will need to lower the man holes an cover
them as well ??? Basically meaning there will be no access to the
pipes from my land in the future?

If there are manholes there, they will need to stay there (in the middle of
your room(s), hence my advice to sling the lot and start from scratch,
unless you want someone to start removing carpets and rodding sewage out of
your house in years to come - manholes are there for one reason - to remove
blockages) - even if you go down this route, the actual pipes will still
require to be encased in concrete.

There are two reasons I am considering rafts.
1. To get maximum utilisation of space

It's not worth it.

2. More importantly, if I don’t use rafts the wall on the right hand
side (from the house) of room one will join the house at the frame of
the patio door, and I’m not sure how I would tie the wall to the
house? Would I be allowed to extend the wall which once held the
patio door to fill the gap. I would have thought this would have been
a point of weakness?
It doesn't matter where it joins onto the house, pillars will be built and
tied into existing brickwork.

thanks of that i was unsure if that would have the required strength.

I plan to do this work my self, and therefore would be interested to
understand why using rafts would cost an additional 20K????

You don't mention the meterage of the area you want to build on, but a raft
is a lot of work and a lot of muck has to come out, more importantly a lot
of concrete has to go back in, even doing it in one big raft would be
extremely costly but you want to do it in 3 stages, making it triply so.


I want to go about 3.5 M from the house and 8M across to form all 3 rooms.
This excludes the garage which is currently the drive way, on a 1960s
semi. Sorry don't have the exact measurements at the moment.

The reason to build room one first i the immediate need for space.
then the garage to allow the old garage to be knocked down in stage 3.



The questions about the designation of a garage. The reason for this
question is that I believe if the building is designated as living
area then I need to build cavity walls, but for a garage I only need
a single layer wall. Also the roof designs are different warn vs.
cold.

For the amount you would save by not insulating the walls and roof, I
wouldn't bother, and a single skinned wall will get damp eventually for the
sake of a few hundred quids worth of blocks and fibreglass.

Ideally I would like to build a single layer wall (cold roof), but
without all the additional requirements for a garage such as fire
doors, 12 inch step to stop patrol fumes rising. As I won’t be
storing a car in the building.

That can be avoided by not having a garage door on the front, then it's just
a workshop

thanks for that again i was just trying to save space internally




Lastly I didn’t win the lottery just learning about building.


Don't approach the building inspector for a chat with these ideas, firstly
he won't listen to you until your plans have been submitted, and secondly,
you need to get proper plans drawn up by a competent person, but doing it in
seperate stages will escalate the costs through the roof, you are basically
proposing to build 3 seperate extensions


I agree i am not yet ready to approach the inspector. I do how ever want
to plan end entire build prior to creating the plans to ensure that i
don't draw plans which can't be built

I assume that i can apply for the building as a whole and then
construction can be in a phased approach. Planning and
building/inspection are two completely separate tasks?




--
To reply via email, first reverse the address below then replace the
(at) with @ and the (dot) with .
ku(tod)em(tod)mahlew(ta)spuorgswen

Andrew Welham wrote:
Phil L wrote:


each of the man holes is approx 270CM from the house at their closest
point, and are running with the long side of the man hole parallel to
the house. I was considering having the wall parallel with the house
at about that point, but unfortunately the drains are in the way so i
was going to go just the other side of the man hole covers.


These drains are going to cause you a lot of headaches unless you A) build
on the inside of them, or B) re-route them


3) where is your existing garage

see the new link
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~awel...undations2.gif


I see.


thanks of that i was unsure if that would have the required strength.

Strength isn't an issue where two buildings join, neither is holding the
other up, they are essentially sepereate buildings next to each other.

I plan to do this work my self, and therefore would be interested to
understand why using rafts would cost an additional 20K????

You don't mention the meterage of the area you want to build on, but
a raft is a lot of work and a lot of muck has to come out, more
importantly a lot of concrete has to go back in, even doing it in
one big raft would be extremely costly but you want to do it in 3
stages, making it triply so.

I want to go about 3.5 M from the house and 8M across to form all 3
rooms. This excludes the garage which is currently the drive way, on
a 1960s semi. Sorry don't have the exact measurements at the moment.

depending on where it is, don't expect change out of 70 grand.


The reason to build room one first i the immediate need for space.
then the garage to allow the old garage to be knocked down in stage 3.


It's cheaper (a lot!) to have it built as one.


That can be avoided by not having a garage door on the front, then
it's just a workshop

thanks for that again i was just trying to save space internally




Lastly I didn’t win the lottery just learning about building.


Don't approach the building inspector for a chat with these ideas,
firstly he won't listen to you until your plans have been submitted,
and secondly, you need to get proper plans drawn up by a competent
person, but doing it in seperate stages will escalate the costs
through the roof, you are basically proposing to build 3 seperate
extensions

I agree i am not yet ready to approach the inspector. I do how ever
want to plan end entire build prior to creating the plans to ensure
that i don't draw plans which can't be built

The person who draws the plans will be up to speed on regulations,
calculations and everything else and he will ensure that they will pass
before submitting them on your behalf.


I assume that i can apply for the building as a whole and then
construction can be in a phased approach. Planning and
building/inspection are two completely separate tasks?

In some cases yes and no!

In this case I fear you would have to submit each plan as a seperate entity,
it's highly unlikely that any kind of raft would be allowed to go in in
stages....if you built the whole thing on strip footings, then I don't see a
problem, except much higher costs and lengthy disruption but if you don't
care about these then it's up to you.