[Darren Clarke]

I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting so
I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know
which one to buy or how to use it.

Can I buy them in Wickes, how much do they cost, do I need to remove the
water from the bowl first, how long do I leave it soak for and do I need
to neutralise the acid before flushing? The bulk of it is under the
waterline (around the bend) but there's also a thin coating around the rim
and I think a lot is built up under it because a couple of times I've
tried using the shower head to blast hot and cold water under the rim and
this has made big chunks of limescale crack and fall off.

I imagine, like domestic cleaning products, some brands are good and
others are very poor, so which should I get? If they're expensive, would i
be just as good to pour down a cheap bottle of Happy Shopper vinegar and
leave it overnight?

[Steve Firth]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:33:21 +0100, Darren Clarke wrote:

I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting so
I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know
which one to buy or how to use it.

A good heavy duty descaler is Fernox Descaler, it's sold at Homebase among
other places and is intended for descaling of boiler systems and pipework
and for heavy duty industrial and domestic descaling. You really don't need
an aggressive acid such as hydrochloric (muriatic) acid which is available
from some suppliers. Sulphamic acid which is the acid used in the majority
of domestic descalers is perfectly adequate.

Fernox Descaler is sulphamic acid crystals with a corrosion inhibitor and
an indicator dye to tell you when the acid has been used up. It coems in a
large tub and has instructions on the side of the tub. In general, wear eye
protection when using the descaler and rubber or plastic gloves as a
sensible precaution.

Vinegar won't do much good, not even if you obtain a higher strength
solution of acetic acid, and the fumes even from household vinegar will
make it unpleasant to use.

Read the instructions carefully before use and in particular note the
requirement to add the crystals to water and not the other way around.
You'll need a large plastic jug and plastic or wooden spoon for mixing, and
it's best to dissolve the crystals in lukewarm water.

I tend to keep an old domestic descaler bottle and refill it with Fernox
Descaler solution, because it's a fraction of the price of the stuff in
supermarkets which is mostly water, perfume and a trace of sulphamic acid
and detergent.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Darren Clarke wrote:
I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting
so I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know
which one to buy or how to use it.

Can I buy them in Wickes, how much do they cost, do I need to remove the
water from the bowl first, how long do I leave it soak for and do I need
to neutralise the acid before flushing? The bulk of it is under the
waterline (around the bend) but there's also a thin coating around the
rim and I think a lot is built up under it because a couple of times
I've tried using the shower head to blast hot and cold water under the
rim and this has made big chunks of limescale crack and fall off.

I imagine, like domestic cleaning products, some brands are good and
others are very poor, so which should I get? If they're expensive, would
i be just as good to pour down a cheap bottle of Happy Shopper vinegar
and leave it overnight?


Get some brick acid. 5 quid for 5 liters. HCL at 30% IIRC

Be careful on chrome tho.

Sulphuric is better still allegedly.

However almost any acid works given time. A regular addition of
something to the cistern is a good start for maintenance.

The round the bend stuff is actually easy. Simply pour a cupful of acid
in last thing at night for a while.

The under the rim is less so, as it tends to dry up. The gel type loo
cleaners are not bad..expensive though.

[John Stumbles]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 11:00:31 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:33:21 +0100, Darren Clarke wrote:

I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting so
I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know
which one to buy or how to use it.

A good heavy duty descaler is Fernox Descaler, it's sold at Homebase among
other places and is intended for descaling of boiler systems and pipework
and for heavy duty industrial and domestic descaling. You really don't need
an aggressive acid such as hydrochloric (muriatic) acid which is available
from some suppliers. Sulphamic acid which is the acid used in the majority
of domestic descalers is perfectly adequate.

Another good one is Kilrock-k (inhibited formic acid). It goes through
limescale like a dose of salts but the fumes are unpleasant so don't hang
around after adding it.

[[email protected]]

Darren Clarke wrote:
I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting so
I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know
which one to buy or how to use it.

Can I buy them in Wickes, how much do they cost, do I need to remove the
water from the bowl first, how long do I leave it soak for and do I need
to neutralise the acid before flushing? The bulk of it is under the
waterline (around the bend) but there's also a thin coating around the rim
and I think a lot is built up under it because a couple of times I've
tried using the shower head to blast hot and cold water under the rim and
this has made big chunks of limescale crack and fall off.

I imagine, like domestic cleaning products, some brands are good and
others are very poor, so which should I get? If they're expensive, would i
be just as good to pour down a cheap bottle of Happy Shopper vinegar and
leave it overnight?

your problem is that you didnt remove the water from the toilet pan.
Buy yourself a little plastic siphon/pump for about one pound in a diy
shop or perhaps a car accessory shop.
Its a little plastic flexible red cylinder that you squeeze in your
hand with two pipes from it. One pipe sucks the water from the pan and
the other releases it into a container.

once you have taken all the water from the pan and you can feel the
fresh air coming up from the sewer, pour any acid descaler into the pan
and rub it all over the affected areas with a brush. Leave for ten or
fifteen minutes and then scrape all the remaining lime away using a
screwdriver or something like that. Get it all off using the acid
before you flush it out or you will be repeating the procedure.

Thats the secret. The water in the pan was diluting your chemicals
before.

[mike]

wrote in
oups.com:

he water from the pan and
the other releases it into a container.

once you have taken all the water from the pan and you can feel the
fresh air coming up from the sewer,

Not exactly how I'd describe it! )

mike

[Kev]

wrote:

your problem is that you didnt remove the water from the toilet pan.
Buy yourself a little plastic siphon/pump for about one pound in a diy
shop or perhaps a car accessory shop.

I use the sort of syphon that is sold to clean out aquariums. Sounds
similar but if you have problems finding one go to a tropilcal fish
shop.

Kevin

[mike]

wrote in
oups.com:

Also HCl is so easy to use: shove the water a couple of time with the
bogbrush to get the level downa bit, add HCl and leave overnight.
Thats it.

I slide a glass or two of water in gently after adding acid, to get the
level up to where it gets to the ring of scale that forms round the
surface- or is that only on my bog?

mike

[chris French]

In message , Steve Firth
writes
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:33:21 +0100, Darren Clarke wrote:

I have a thick limescale problem that domestic cleaners aren't shifting so
I'd like to use one of the more heavy duty cleaners, but I don't know
which one to buy or how to use it.

You are using an acid containing descaling product aren't you? most
toilet cleaners aren't AFAICS

A good heavy duty descaler is Fernox Descaler, it's sold at Homebase among
other places and is intended for descaling of boiler systems and pipework
and for heavy duty industrial and domestic descaling. You really don't need
an aggressive acid such as hydrochloric (muriatic) acid which is available
from some suppliers. Sulphamic acid which is the acid used in the majority
of domestic descalers is perfectly adequate.

I've got a couple of bottles of supermarket own brand Toilet
cleaner/descaler (Waitrose and Tesco). Both contain Hydrochloric Acid

I know that I could got and get something cheaper from a BM/plumbers
merchants, but I have to get round to it. It's not like we use loads of
the stuff.
--
Chris French

[chris French]

In message , mike
writes
wrote in
roups.com:

Also HCl is so easy to use: shove the water a couple of time with the
bogbrush to get the level downa bit, add HCl and leave overnight.
Thats it.

I slide a glass or two of water in gently after adding acid, to get the
level up to where it gets to the ring of scale that forms round the
surface- or is that only on my bog?

Clean it more often and it'll be less likely to form.....

We have 3 toilets in the house, one tends not to get used because of
it's location. It can easily develop a scale ring as the water
evaporates. Making the effort to use it more frequently (and clean it of
course) has removed the problem
--
Chris French

[[email protected]]

mike wrote:
wrote in
oups.com:

Also HCl is so easy to use: shove the water a couple of time with the
bogbrush to get the level downa bit, add HCl and leave overnight.
Thats it.

I slide a glass or two of water in gently after adding acid, to get the
level up to where it gets to the ring of scale that forms round the
surface- or is that only on my bog?

mike

If your regular cleaner is a lime scale removing acidic type, no
noticeable scale should form.


NT

[mike]

wrote in
oups.com:


If your regular cleaner is a lime scale removing acidic type, no
noticeable scale should form.

My feeling is that when I flush, there's some wave motion round the U bend
before it settles, that leaves the water inevitibaley below the high water
mark when it settles, andit's here the tidemark forms.

I guess if I cleaned a lot more often it wouldn't happen...

mike

[Suz]

I've got a couple of bottles of supermarket own brand Toilet
cleaner/descaler (Waitrose and Tesco). Both contain Hydrochloric Acid

I know that I could got and get something cheaper from a BM/plumbers
merchants, but I have to get round to it. It's not like we use loads of
the stuff.
--
I use the Tesco one and think it is really quite good. 74p for a 750ml
bottle.

[[email protected]]

Suz wrote:

I've got a couple of bottles of supermarket own brand Toilet
cleaner/descaler (Waitrose and Tesco). Both contain Hydrochloric Acid

I know that I could got and get something cheaper from a BM/plumbers
merchants, but I have to get round to it. It's not like we use loads of
the stuff.

I use the Tesco one and think it is really quite good. 74p for a 750ml
bottle.

those are good for light descaling, but too weak to deal with serious
encrustation. I know this from cleaning toilets left by others, not my
own


NT

[Christian McArdle]

Clean it more often and it'll be less likely to form.....

I expect this depends on the water and the finish to the toilet. Our water
softener is currently out of commission. Within a week, even Guantanamo Bay
wouldn't have inflicted our toilet on their prisoners.

Christian.