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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions.

Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 19th 05, 06:52 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

Hi,
I have just purchased a whirlpool bath. The Instructions for the bath state
that it needs to be wired accordingly (spelling and gramar reproced from the
orginal!)


"Conneecting to the mains:

For the pump power supply, bring and electrical line using a waterlight lead
of a 6 x 25mm section protected by a 2 x 16A magnetothermal switch and
equipped by a 30mA differental switch. The earth wire muct be absolutely
connected to an earth hold. The resistance of the eart hold much not exceed
3ohm, this electrical line must uniquely serve the bathtub"

Now...

I plan to instal the bath by running and RCD protected Fused Spur (Screwfix
14770) from one of the sockets located in my lounge (small flat). I will
then have a pull cord located in the bathroom or wall mounted switch in a
cupboard next door which will sit between the bath's pump and the FCU. Is
there any problems with doing this?

Many Thanks

Tim


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  #2  
Old November 19th 05, 07:41 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

You won't be able to connect it as you describe safely.

From the very broken english description of the connection method I'd say it
is pretty much like a shower supply. I feel that it requires a separate
circuit of supply totally run from your consumer unit. The protection would
appear to be a two pole circuit breaker but the cable size eludes me, "6 x
25mm", 25mm cable size does seem rather extreme. Perhaps it's a 6mm cable
that is required.

It would also require an earth cable run straight from the main earth
terminal found at your consumer unit.



  #3  
Old November 20th 05, 03:00 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

Tim Blank wrote:

Hi,
I have just purchased a whirlpool bath. The Instructions for the bath state
that it needs to be wired accordingly (spelling and gramar reproced from the
orginal!)


Does this bath have any electrical heating capability? It sounds like it
could be in electric shower territory for power consumption when
heating. If it is simply a pump however then it seems unlikely that it
needs the best part of 7kW just for that!

"Conneecting to the mains:

For the pump power supply, bring and electrical line using a waterlight lead
of a 6 x 25mm section protected by a 2 x 16A magnetothermal switch and
equipped by a 30mA differental switch. The earth wire muct be absolutely
connected to an earth hold. The resistance of the eart hold much not exceed
3ohm, this electrical line must uniquely serve the bathtub"


Oooo nice ;-)

Guessing at some of the terms:
"magnetothermal switch" = MCB
"30mA differential switch" = RCD

the 2 x 16A seems odd - perhaps it does mean 32A. That would also tie up
with a 6mm^2 CSA cable (assuming the distance is not excessive). No idea
where the 25mm comes into it.

The "The resistance of the eart hold much not exceed 3ohm" seems an odd
requirement to specify on a circuit which is also RCD protected. (might
make more sense on a circuit that relies on EEBADS protection only - but
then the 3 ohm figure would be too high to provide fast enough
disconnection of the MCB (a quick look at fig 3.4 in Annex 3 of BS7671
suggest Ze would need to be = 1.5 ohm for a 32A MCB). I think you can
ignore this bit since you have the RCD (and since you will probably
exceed this requirement by a good margin anyway)

To get this right, you will need to go back to basics and read the
actual current loading or power rating off the plate that should appear
somewhere on the bath.

"this electrical line must uniquely serve the bathtub" sounds like a
suggestion that there be an equipotential bond run back to the CU. This
is not actually a requirement under BS7671, the CPC in the feed cable
would be adequate on its own. The whole bathroom should still be cross
bonded so as to ensure it is an equipotential zone however.

Now...

I plan to instal the bath by running and RCD protected Fused Spur (Screwfix
14770) from one of the sockets located in my lounge (small flat). I will


If we are talking about a high current drain setup then you will need a
dedicated circuit. Even a 16A fixed load would be inappropriate to feed
from an ordinary ring circuit.

then have a pull cord located in the bathroom or wall mounted switch in a
cupboard next door which will sit between the bath's pump and the FCU. Is
there any problems with doing this?


This bit is fine - the ceiling switch would be better since it is in the
same room as the bath and hence allows it to be used for isolation
(assuming = 3mm contact separation and it being two pole) without
complex lockout requirements (i.e. there is little danger of someone
turning back on while someone else is maintaining the bath). It would
also probably need to be of the shower isolator type to handle the
current requirements if they are large as we suspect.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #4  
Old November 20th 05, 02:20 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

Owain wrote:

I'd ask the seller for proper instructions, and if they can't supply
them then send the unit back. If it doesn't have English instructions
I'd be sceptical it was intended for the UK market or compliant with our
safety standards.


I agree entirely. If the manufacturer or responsible supplier isn't
providing clear instructions they are probably not complying with the
Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994 (aka the LVD). The
matter should be drawn to the attention of the relevant local Trading
Standards department.

--
Andy
  #5  
Old November 20th 05, 02:37 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

John Rumm wrote:

Guessing at some of the terms:
"magnetothermal switch" = MCB
"30mA differential switch" = RCD


Agreed.

the 2 x 16A seems odd - perhaps it does mean 32A.


It might, perhaps, mean a linked 2-pole MCB, with the intention that the
equipment is supplied from 2 phases of a 3-phase system (common in some
parts of Europe). Or even with the intention of the MCB breaking both
phase & neutral of a single-phase feed (in which case just use an
ordinary single-pole MCB in the UK).

That would also tie up with a 6mm^2 CSA cable (assuming the distance
is not excessive). No idea where the 25mm comes into it.


Or did it mean 6-core 2.5 mm^2? Lord knows why though. Or a 6 mm o/d
cable? Is there a rating plate on the damn thing stating voltage,
current, power or VA, no. of phases, etc.?

The "The resistance of the eart hold much not exceed 3ohm" seems an odd
requirement to specify on a circuit which is also RCD protected. (might
make more sense on a circuit that relies on EEBADS protection only - but
then the 3 ohm figure would be too high to provide fast enough
disconnection of the MCB (a quick look at fig 3.4 in Annex 3 of BS7671
suggest Ze would need to be = 1.5 ohm for a 32A MCB). I think you can
ignore this bit since you have the RCD (and since you will probably
exceed this requirement by a good margin anyway)


Agreed: ignore and follow BS 7671 / the OSG.

To get this right, you will need to go back to basics and read the
actual current loading or power rating off the plate that should appear
somewhere on the bath.


Quite.

"this electrical line must uniquely serve the bathtub" sounds like a
suggestion that there be an equipotential bond run back to the CU.


I read "electrical line" as referring to the final circuit supplying the
appliance (together with its CPC). IOW it's just saying that this
bathtub must be fed from a dedicated final circuit, rather than being
hooked into the light with a BC adaptor...

--
Andy
  #6  
Old November 20th 05, 02:52 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

Andy Wade wrote:


I read "electrical line" as referring to the final circuit supplying
the appliance (together with its CPC). IOW it's just saying that this
bathtub must be fed from a dedicated final circuit, rather than being
hooked into the light with a BC adaptor...


I know nothing at all about electrics, but we have a whirlpool bath and
ours has to be on a separate circuit just as you describe, so I think
you have interpreted that correctly. Ours also has to be able to be
switched off from outside the bathroom in the same way that a shower
would be.

--
Holly, in France
Holiday Home in Dordogne
http://la-plaine.chez.tiscali.fr/

  #7  
Old November 20th 05, 03:25 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

In article ,
Tim Blank wrote:
I plan to instal the bath by running and RCD protected Fused Spur
(Screwfix 14770) from one of the sockets located in my lounge (small
flat). I will then have a pull cord located in the bathroom or wall
mounted switch in a cupboard next door which will sit between the
bath's pump and the FCU. Is there any problems with doing this?


This is how my brother's one was installed by a good pro electrician and
conformed to the instructions with it.

--
*How about "never"? Is "never" good for you?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #8  
Old November 20th 05, 05:40 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I plan to instal the bath by running and RCD protected Fused Spur
(Screwfix 14770) from one of the sockets located in my lounge (small
flat). I will then have a pull cord located in the bathroom or wall
mounted switch in a cupboard next door which will sit between the
bath's pump and the FCU. Is there any problems with doing this?



This is how my brother's one was installed by a good pro electrician and
conformed to the instructions with it.


My mum's also - but then again it is on a 3A fuse in the FCU. It would
be a very different matter if the bath included electric heating. (my
mum's one uses a continous slow feed of hot water to temper the air
being pumped in - but I can see the case for using eletric heating for
this instead).

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #9  
Old November 20th 05, 08:32 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath


"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I plan to instal the bath by running and RCD protected Fused Spur
(Screwfix 14770) from one of the sockets located in my lounge (small
flat). I will then have a pull cord located in the bathroom or wall
mounted switch in a cupboard next door which will sit between the
bath's pump and the FCU. Is there any problems with doing this?



This is how my brother's one was installed by a good pro electrician and
conformed to the instructions with it.


My mum's also - but then again it is on a 3A fuse in the FCU. It would be
a very different matter if the bath included electric heating. (my mum's
one uses a continous slow feed of hot water to temper the air being pumped
in - but I can see the case for using eletric heating for this instead).


If its a *real* spa pool it could have one, two, or three 5HP water pumps,
an air compressor, an air heater and a water heater in it.
A 3A spur wouldn't even power the air pump.

The one I was looking at needs a 32A feed and an RCD and that only had one
pump.


  #10  
Old November 20th 05, 10:53 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Default Wiring for A Whirlpool Bath

On Sat, 19 Nov 2005 18:52:18 -0000, "Tim Blank"
wrote:

2 x 16A magnetothermal switch


Double pole 16A circuit breaker, not uncommon in continental fits
where there is no reliable differentiation between line and neutral.

equipped by a 30mA differental switch.


RCD

this electrical line must uniquely serve the bathtub"


Needs its own feed from the Consumer Unit.

Is there any problems with doing this?


If you are in the UK then yes there is - dear Mr Blur can have you
fined up to 5,000 and give you a criminal record for daring to
install something in an area classified as a special installation or
location.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
 




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