Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry - she is)
looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just wondering about the
electricity needed for the pump. The nearest electricity is next door in my
daughter's bedroom through a normal plug socket. The spec says that it must
be protected by a fuse switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore,
this circuit must contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact
aperture of at least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is
to be connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly plumber
will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or does it
need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to do the job
needless to say!
Thanks
John

"John Orrett" wrote in message
news
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry - she is)
looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just wondering about the
electricity needed for the pump. The nearest electricity is next door in
my
daughter's bedroom through a normal plug socket. The spec says that it
must
be protected by a fuse switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore,
this circuit must contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact
aperture of at least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared)
is
to be connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber
will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or does it
need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to do the job
needless to say!
Thanks
John


Hi, no disrespect, but your description of the "spec" makes no sense. Could
you please check it again and correct your post.

1. A fuse switch is not 30mA. Do you mean an RCD?

2. Should that read 32A or 16A fuse?

3. Should "dual pole circuit breaker" be "dual pole isolating switch" by
any chance?

4. Is this an American Spec by any chance?

5. The potential equaliser??? Never heard this expression. Could it be
supplementary bonding earth conductor?

6. At least how many sq mm?

It sounds like a normal 13A plug/socket will not be appropriate.

It sounds like you will need a dedicated radial circuit with a 16A Circuit
Breaker and 30mA RCD (if your consumer unit does not already have one). In
an appropriate place inside the bathroom there should be a 45A DP Shower
pull cord switch with a 3mm contact gap (i.e. the normal type).

You will probably need to bond exposed metalwork and the pump unit to the
rest of the supplementary bonding in the bathroom with 4mm Sq earth wire.

If you don't have proper supplementary bonding in the bathroom (taps, rads,
etc) then you need to get that sorted as well.

HTH

Smudger

Smudger wrote:
"John Orrett" wrote in message
news
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry -
she is) looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just
wondering about the electricity needed for the pump. The nearest
electricity is next door in my daughter's bedroom through a normal
plug socket. The spec says that it must be protected by a fuse
switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore, this circuit must
contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact aperture of at
least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is to be
connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or
does it need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to
do the job needless to say!
Thanks
John


Hi, no disrespect, but your description of the "spec" makes no sense.
Could you please check it again and correct your post.

1. A fuse switch is not 30mA. Do you mean an RCD?

2. Should that read 32A or 16A fuse?

3. Should "dual pole circuit breaker" be "dual pole isolating
switch" by any chance?

4. Is this an American Spec by any chance?

5. The potential equaliser??? Never heard this expression. Could
it be supplementary bonding earth conductor?

6. At least how many sq mm?

It sounds like a normal 13A plug/socket will not be appropriate.

It sounds like you will need a dedicated radial circuit with a 16A
Circuit Breaker and 30mA RCD (if your consumer unit does not already
have one). In an appropriate place inside the bathroom there should
be a 45A DP Shower pull cord switch with a 3mm contact gap (i.e. the
normal type).

You will probably need to bond exposed metalwork and the pump unit to
the rest of the supplementary bonding in the bathroom with 4mm Sq
earth wire.

If you don't have proper supplementary bonding in the bathroom (taps,
rads, etc) then you need to get that sorted as well.

HTH

Smudger

Hi Smudger, and thanks for the reply. The spec was copied and pasted from a
web page. It looks like the Company is from the Netherlands, and although
the web page was a UK one, that could explain the strange spec. I didn't
realise that there was so much involved. It would seem that a fair bit of
re-wiring would need to be done. As we are re-tiling and fitting a new
shower as well as the bathroom suite, we may be able to cable down the
existing channel from the shower.
Appreciate your help,
Best wishes,
John

"John Orrett" wrote
| 2. Should that read 32A or 16A fuse?

I think the "31A" was a typo for 13A or 16A

| 3. Should "dual pole circuit breaker" be "dual pole isolating
| switch" by any chance?

In some European countries MCBs are double-pole. A DP switch would certainly
be required in the UK, even though / because our MCBs are SP.

| As we are re-tiling and fitting a new shower as well
| as the bathroom suite, we may be able to cable down the
| existing channel from the shower.

If this is an electric shower then you must not use the shower circuit to
supply any other apparatus. Also, you should be aware when running cables
that they must run in permitted zones (up, down, across from visible
accessory) or must be mechanically protected.

Owain

"Owain" wrote in message
...
If this is an electric shower then you must not use the shower circuit to
supply any other apparatus.

The OP was talking about a whirpool bath but the principle is the same. We
have the macerator on the same circuit as the bath, both wired to a big wide
switch on the wall outside to kill all electrics in the bathroom apart from
the lights. Are you saying this is incorrect ?

"G&M" wrote in message
...

"Owain" wrote in message
...
If this is an electric shower then you must not use the shower circuit
to
supply any other apparatus.

The OP was talking about a whirpool bath but the principle is the same.
We
have the macerator on the same circuit as the bath, both wired to a big
wide
switch on the wall outside to kill all electrics in the bathroom apart
from
the lights. Are you saying this is incorrect ?



The point I was making is that instantaneous electric showers pull a lot of
current. The cable which has been installed to power an electric shower
(and the fuse/MCB prtotecting it will most certainly not be big enough to
cope with the shower and the spa at the same time. Therefore to do it would
not be wise.

There is no reason in principle why you can't have a big red switch to kill
all power in the bathroom except the lights, providing the circuit has been
designed and installed in accrodance with the Wiring Regs, but I can't
imagine a scenario where you would include an instantaneous electric shower
in such a design, because you would necessarily be into industrial
switchgear to do it properly.

HTH

Smudger

Owain wrote:
"John Orrett" wrote
2. Should that read 32A or 16A fuse?

I think the "31A" was a typo for 13A or 16A
Sorry, Owain, my mistake!


3. Should "dual pole circuit breaker" be "dual pole isolating
switch" by any chance?
Don't know - I copied that verbatim. As previously mentioned, it turns out
that the text originated from a Dutch web page.


In some European countries MCBs are double-pole. A DP switch would
certainly be required in the UK, even though / because our MCBs are
SP.

As we are re-tiling and fitting a new shower as well
as the bathroom suite, we may be able to cable down the
existing channel from the shower.

If this is an electric shower then you must not use the shower
circuit to supply any other apparatus. Also, you should be aware when
running cables that they must run in permitted zones (up, down,
across from visible accessory) or must be mechanically protected.

Owain

Many thanks for the excellent advice Owain,
Regards
John

"John Orrett" wrote in message
news
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry - she is)
looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just wondering about the
electricity needed for the pump. The nearest electricity is next door in
my
daughter's bedroom through a normal plug socket. The spec says that it
must
be protected by a fuse switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore,
this circuit must contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact
aperture of at least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared)
is
to be connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber
will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or does it
need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to do the job
needless to say!

You cannot use a plug socket. You need a dedicated feed from the CU either
on the RCD side or (and ?) an external one. Plus the double pole switch
mentioned and a bloody reliable earth wire - thicker the better.

G&M wrote:
"John Orrett" wrote in message
news
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry -
she is) looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just
wondering about the electricity needed for the pump. The nearest
electricity is next door in my daughter's bedroom through a normal
plug socket. The spec says that it must be protected by a fuse
switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore, this circuit must
contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact aperture of at
least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is to be
connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or
does it need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to
do the job needless to say!

You cannot use a plug socket. You need a dedicated feed from the CU
either on the RCD side or (and ?) an external one. Plus the double
pole switch mentioned and a bloody reliable earth wire - thicker the
better.

Strangely enough, whilst I was in the plumbers merchants today looking at
baths, showers etc., I mentioned to the guy behind the counter about the
wiring. No problem he says, I've got one and hooked it up to a double plug
socket. Maybe I should point him towards this NG before he does some serious
damage! Go figure .....
Cheers
John

On 2004-08-03, John Orrett wrote:
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry - she is)
looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just wondering about the
electricity needed for the pump. The nearest electricity is next door in my
daughter's bedroom through a normal plug socket. The spec says that it must
be protected by a fuse switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore,
this circuit must contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact
aperture of at least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is
to be connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly plumber
will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or does it
need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to do the job
needless to say!
Thanks
John

John, - Saninova bath by Maax?

In which case my installer has used our shower circuitry (as we no
longer have an electric shower. Downrated the MCB to 16A from 32A (it
was powering a 9.x kw electric shower) - a dual pole isolating switch
with a 5A fuse is in line with the pump on the bath (as the total draw
on the motor to the whirlpool is ~200W so 5A is *plenty* and allows
for any inrush). It being the shower circuit it already had a ceiling
mounted 45A pull switch that breaks the circuit - which is nice as we
have a toddler who seems to like to press buttons.

The bath does have a "no water" protection against this - but the
total isolation is nice

The whole CU is protected by an RCD of sufficient sensitivity to cope
with the needs of the whirlpool kit anyway.

Have to say - he was quite suprised how cryptic the information was
about it - but when he actually sat and worked it through - it all
made sense We were lucky that we could re-use the shower wiring
though. We'll be putting a pump on the HW side in the cupboard with
the water tank tho as our hot flow is a little bit **** poor - so the
bath takes a good while to fill

Cheers
Dan.

Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
On 2004-08-03, John Orrett wrote:
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry -
she is) looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just
wondering about the electricity needed for the pump. The nearest
electricity is next door in my daughter's bedroom through a normal
plug socket. The spec says that it must be protected by a fuse
switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore, this circuit must
contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact aperture of at
least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is to be
connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or
does it need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to
do the job needless to say!
Thanks
John

John, - Saninova bath by Maax?

Exactly !!

snip
Cheers
Dan.

Thanks for that Dan. We still have our shower (we actually want to upgrade
to a power shower) as I like a shower wheras my missus likes a bath. Someone
has recommended a decent spark, although he's on holiday at the moment. He
should be able to sort things out. I have warned my good lady that there may
be plastering/redecorating required :-)
Cheers
John

On 2004-08-04, John Orrett wrote:
Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
On 2004-08-03, John Orrett wrote:
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry -
she is) looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just
wondering about the electricity needed for the pump. The nearest
electricity is next door in my daughter's bedroom through a normal
plug socket. The spec says that it must be protected by a fuse
switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore, this circuit must
contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact aperture of at
least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is to be
connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the wiring.
Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug socket or
does it need something meatier? I'll be getting a local spark in to
do the job needless to say!
Thanks
John

John, - Saninova bath by Maax?

Exactly !!

Bloody marvellous bit of kit. Got ours from Plumbworld (the P shaped
shower bath with curved glass screen) and it's fantastic. So light
and seems very strong - plus the kit is all pre-installed


Thanks for that Dan. We still have our shower (we actually want to upgrade
to a power shower) as I like a shower wheras my missus likes a bath. Someone
has recommended a decent spark, although he's on holiday at the moment. He
should be able to sort things out. I have warned my good lady that there may
be plastering/redecorating required :-)

Hmmmm - not sure about showers anymore - they seem to fall into 2
categories. 1 - fine water jet that goes all over the place and is
either too cold or red hot - or 2 - far too much water all over the
place either too hot or too cold. Our plumber suggested an Aqualisa
(sp?) but I wasn't convinved - thus we went for taps on the wall - a
shower off the tap supply - and will add a pump later when we can be
bothered. Wife and I are both soak in the bath types and the shower
is more for washing hair and the odd visitor - so if we don't get
round to the pump - it's not really a problem ;-)

I just wanted the space a shower bath gives as I'm a lanky bugger and
most normal shape/size baths you can't soak in when you are ~6ft 5

Best of luck with it - and yes decorating will be required. I'm
currently tiling. All I can say is "BLOODY MOSAIC TILES - never
again"

Cheers
Dan.

Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
On 2004-08-04, John Orrett wrote:
Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
On 2004-08-03, John Orrett wrote:
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry -
she is) looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just
wondering about the electricity needed for the pump. The nearest
electricity is next door in my daughter's bedroom through a normal
plug socket. The spec says that it must be protected by a fuse
switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore, this circuit must
contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact aperture of at
least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is to be
connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the
wiring. Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug
socket or does it need something meatier? I'll be getting a local
spark in to do the job needless to say!
Thanks
John

John, - Saninova bath by Maax?

Exactly !!

Bloody marvellous bit of kit. Got ours from Plumbworld (the P shaped
shower bath with curved glass screen) and it's fantastic. So light
and seems very strong - plus the kit is all pre-installed


Thanks for that Dan. We still have our shower (we actually want to
upgrade to a power shower) as I like a shower wheras my missus likes
a bath. Someone has recommended a decent spark, although he's on
holiday at the moment. He should be able to sort things out. I have
warned my good lady that there may be plastering/redecorating
required :-)

Hmmmm - not sure about showers anymore - they seem to fall into 2
categories. 1 - fine water jet that goes all over the place and is
either too cold or red hot - or 2 - far too much water all over the
place either too hot or too cold. Our plumber suggested an Aqualisa
(sp?) but I wasn't convinved - thus we went for taps on the wall - a
shower off the tap supply - and will add a pump later when we can be
bothered. Wife and I are both soak in the bath types and the shower
is more for washing hair and the odd visitor - so if we don't get
round to the pump - it's not really a problem ;-)

I just wanted the space a shower bath gives as I'm a lanky bugger and
most normal shape/size baths you can't soak in when you are ~6ft 5

Best of luck with it - and yes decorating will be required. I'm
currently tiling. All I can say is "BLOODY MOSAIC TILES - never
again"

Cheers
Dan.

LOL. Thanks for the comments Dan, :-)
Cheers
John

Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
On 2004-08-04, John Orrett wrote:
Dan delaMare-Lyon wrote:
On 2004-08-03, John Orrett wrote:
Hi all; my missus wants a new bathroom suite, and we are (sorry -
she is) looking at a whirlpool spa type thingy bath. I'm just
wondering about the electricity needed for the pump. The nearest
electricity is next door in my daughter's bedroom through a normal
plug socket. The spec says that it must be protected by a fuse
switch (30 mA) by a 31A or 16A fuse. Furthermore, this circuit must
contain a dual-pole circuit breaker with a contact aperture of at
least 3-mm. The potential equiliser (at least mm squared) is to be
connected to the motor plate.
At this last bit, all I saw was white noise :-). Our local friendly
plumber will hook up the power to the pump but won't fix the
wiring. Question is - is it OK to feed this out of a normal plug
socket or does it need something meatier? I'll be getting a local
spark in to do the job needless to say!
Thanks
John

John, - Saninova bath by Maax?

Exactly !!

Bloody marvellous bit of kit. Got ours from Plumbworld (the P shaped
shower bath with curved glass screen) and it's fantastic. So light
and seems very strong - plus the kit is all pre-installed

Hi Dan - forgot to ask. I saw that in our local Taskers DIY store, but there
did not appear to be any sealing between the curved shower screen and the
bath. No rubber strip or anything. Is that standard, and I presume if there
isn't, it doesn't leak everywhere?
Thanks,
John

On 2004-08-04, John Orrett wrote:

Bloody marvellous bit of kit. Got ours from Plumbworld (the P shaped
shower bath with curved glass screen) and it's fantastic. So light
and seems very strong - plus the kit is all pre-installed

Hi Dan - forgot to ask. I saw that in our local Taskers DIY store, but there
did not appear to be any sealing between the curved shower screen and the
bath. No rubber strip or anything. Is that standard, and I presume if there
isn't, it doesn't leak everywhere?

The glass screen comes with an expanded ruber gasket like thing that
sits on the bottom - plus - the edge of the bth at that point is
fluted upwards at teh edge so run off won't be a problem.

Cheers
Dan.

"John Orrett" wrote
| Thanks for that Dan. We still have our shower (we actually want to
| upgrade to a power shower) as I like a shower wheras my missus
| likes a bath.

A *power shower* is okay, as that only requires a small amount of
electricity for the pump.

But a 10kW instantaneous shower fully loads a 40A circuit.

Owain