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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Copper Tubing too big, how to size?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 17th 11, 11:43 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,420
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-

Trying to install a valve on the copper tube going to the toilet tank. The
original line is 5/8 copper tube going straight to the toilet tank valve.

So I cut off the tubing and tried to install a valve. Turns out the 5/8"
tubing is a little larger than 5/8", the original tubing was too big for the
compression nut and ring.

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.
Are there any sizing dies or collet compression tools to shrink the tubing
to size?
Any reasonably priced tubing expanding tools to expand the end of the
original tubing to accept a piece of 5/8" tubing to be soldered in?

Thanks!

RogerN


Ads
  #2  
Old January 18th 11, 12:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 9
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

On 2011-01-17, RogerN wrote:
Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-

Trying to install a valve on the copper tube going to the toilet tank. The
original line is 5/8 copper tube going straight to the toilet tank valve.

So I cut off the tubing and tried to install a valve. Turns out the 5/8"
tubing is a little larger than 5/8", the original tubing was too big for the
compression nut and ring.

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.
Are there any sizing dies or collet compression tools to shrink the tubing
to size?
Any reasonably priced tubing expanding tools to expand the end of the
original tubing to accept a piece of 5/8" tubing to be soldered in?


Do you have a lathe steady rest with rollers?

i
  #3  
Old January 18th 11, 12:07 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,246
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

RogerN wrote:
Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-

Trying to install a valve on the copper tube going to the toilet tank. The
original line is 5/8 copper tube going straight to the toilet tank valve.

So I cut off the tubing and tried to install a valve. Turns out the 5/8"
tubing is a little larger than 5/8", the original tubing was too big for the
compression nut and ring.

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.
Are there any sizing dies or collet compression tools to shrink the tubing
to size?
Any reasonably priced tubing expanding tools to expand the end of the
original tubing to accept a piece of 5/8" tubing to be soldered in?

Thanks!

RogerN



HF has a cheap swage tool. Think it was like 10 bucks.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
  #4  
Old January 18th 11, 12:11 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 51
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?


"Steve W." wrote in message
...
RogerN wrote:
Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-

Trying to install a valve on the copper tube going to the toilet tank.
The
original line is 5/8 copper tube going straight to the toilet tank valve.

So I cut off the tubing and tried to install a valve. Turns out the 5/8"
tubing is a little larger than 5/8", the original tubing was too big for
the
compression nut and ring.

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto
the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on
and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.
Are there any sizing dies or collet compression tools to shrink the
tubing
to size?
Any reasonably priced tubing expanding tools to expand the end of the
original tubing to accept a piece of 5/8" tubing to be soldered in?

Thanks!

RogerN



HF has a cheap swage tool. Think it was like 10 bucks.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")


Perhaps replace with a flex line with prefitted ends. I did on myself (was
1/2" copper pipe), cost me $4 for the 18" flex line.


  #5  
Old January 18th 11, 12:34 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
dan
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Posts: 354
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

RogerN wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:43:08 -0600:

Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-


I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.


Could you bore out one side of a coupling, and add a short length of
the proper sized tubing? Hmm, .030 is probably too much for a common
coupling to be bored out. Could you make a coupling(f/m adaptor?)
from a piece of brass?
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
  #6  
Old January 18th 11, 01:24 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 4
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

On Jan 17, 6:43*pm, "RogerN" wrote:

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. *I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.


I'd be worried about anything that needs to hold water pressure. But
packed away in my instrument repair tools are a set of draw rings,
with polished, radiused edges that shrink annealed tubing (usually
brass, but copper should work) if you encourage it through with a
rubber mallet from the other end (usually you only anneal the part you
are going to shrink). The smallest one wasn't quite small enough for
my purposed so I made a "number 0" on the lathe. I kept a can of
crisco with them.

Often a tubing cutter will swage the edge near the cut somewhat.

For expanding, I had a segmented expander, but turning a taper on a
piece of junk steel and then filing three rounded flats on it worked
pretty well. A closed pair of needle nose pliers works sometimes too
(or maybe with a shim stuck in the jaws to change the angle). These
of course make a belled end - the expander could make a parallel sided
section as you could move the bulge in and out instead of only at the
end.)

The difference in behavior between the annealed and work hardened
condition is substantial.
  #7  
Old January 18th 11, 01:41 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,507
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

dan wrote:
RogerN wrote in

Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto
the tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve
on and I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better
later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.


Could you bore out one side of a coupling, and add a short length of
the proper sized tubing? Hmm, .030 is probably too much for a common
coupling to be bored out. Could you make a coupling(f/m adaptor?)
from a piece of brass?


I'd go with the turning, if OP has access to a lathe. Once, at the
shop where I sit, we needed some bizarre adapter for a vacuum pump,
and the boss said, "Hey, we're a machine shop. Just make one!"

It took about an hour, including learning how to turn a 1.25-32
thread!

But they also just happened to have had a perfect piece of brass just
lying there in the "cutoff" bin.

Cheers!
Rich

  #8  
Old January 18th 11, 04:16 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,944
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011 00:34:43 GMT, (dan) wrote:

RogerN wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon, 17 Jan 2011 17:43:08 -0600:

Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-


I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.


Could you bore out one side of a coupling, and add a short length of
the proper sized tubing? Hmm, .030 is probably too much for a common
coupling to be bored out. Could you make a coupling(f/m adaptor?)
from a piece of brass?

Just get some emery cloth and sand down the outside of the pipe a wee
bit and solder a 5/8 to 1/5 adapter on. Might need to heat the adapter
a bit - copper grows significantly when heated.
I'm ASSuming the 5.8" tubing is "soft" copper??? Most "hard" copper is
1/2 or 3/4".
  #9  
Old January 18th 11, 10:34 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 857
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

RogerN wrote:
Metalworking, resizing copper tubing-

Trying to install a valve on the copper tube going to the toilet tank. The
original line is 5/8 copper tube going straight to the toilet tank valve.

So I cut off the tubing and tried to install a valve. Turns out the 5/8"
tubing is a little larger than 5/8", the original tubing was too big for the
compression nut and ring.

I measured the tubing and reads around .655", about .030" too big. I was
able to taper the end of the copper and hammer the compression nut onto the
tubing, this "sized" the tubing enough to get the compression sleeve on and
I got the valve on the line, but I would like to fix it better later.

I could either shrink the tubing down to .625" or expand to solder a
correctly sized tubing inside the end of the old tubing.
Are there any sizing dies or collet compression tools to shrink the tubing
to size?
Any reasonably priced tubing expanding tools to expand the end of the
original tubing to accept a piece of 5/8" tubing to be soldered in?

Thanks!

RogerN



Can you make a pair of swaging blocks?. Basically bore a hole in a
suitable piece of material to the current tube OD then cut the material
in half, you may want to add a taper at one end to blend the diameters.
You then squeeze the tube repeatedly , rotating slightly between each
squeeze, and you can quickly reduce the size by the amount you want. I
regularly do this with stainless steel tube and have made a few sizes of
blocks that I mount in my fly press. I expect a vice could be used as well.
  #10  
Old January 18th 11, 02:50 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,989
Default Copper Tubing too big, how to size?

First, some nomenclatu plumbing pipe is named by its nominal ID.
Your 5/8 OD copper pipe is what's called 1/2". And it's highly
standardized - how a piece that's .655 got into play is the question.
Unless it's 3/8" threaded brass pipe, but that's larger, about .67 OD.

The 3/8" brass makes more sense, 'cause it was often used to plumb
toilets. I don't think that I've ever seen a toilet plumbed with 1/2'
pipe. Is the pipe-valve connection threaded?

The solution is to replace that .655 pipe between the valve & the
toilet. If the toilet valve that it connects to requires that size
pipe, replace the valve too. That's highly unlikely, though, unless the
valve is Victorian era. And then it should be replaced anyhow.

Bob
 




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