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insulating the toilet tank



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 9th 04, 08:44 PM
slushfund
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Default insulating the toilet tank

About 10 years ago I insulated the toilet tank with a kit from Home Depot
maybe. After some years it finally gave up the ghost. I'd like to insulate
it again but the kits I see now are the white styrofoam not the closed cell
translucent sheets I'd used previously. Before I can redo it though I've got
to get rid of the old adhesive inside the tank. Any ideas on a good product
to get rid of this residue?
Know if they still sell that closed cell insulation instead of
this styrofoam? Haven't checked any local plumbing shops yet.


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  #2  
Old October 10th 04, 01:36 AM
Michael Baugh
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Default

I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.

slushfund wrote in message
...
About 10 years ago I insulated the toilet tank with a kit from Home Depot
maybe. After some years it finally gave up the ghost. I'd like to insulate
it again but the kits I see now are the white styrofoam not the closed

cell
translucent sheets I'd used previously. Before I can redo it though I've

got
to get rid of the old adhesive inside the tank. Any ideas on a good

product
to get rid of this residue?
Know if they still sell that closed cell insulation instead of
this styrofoam? Haven't checked any local plumbing shops yet.




  #3  
Old October 10th 04, 02:19 AM
slushfund
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Posts: n/a
Default

I'd like to insulate because in winter the incoming supply of water is
fairly cold. My basement is unheated which doesn't give the supply pipes a
chance to warm up at all. When this water settles in the toilet tank, the
difference in temperature between the water in the tank and the ambient air
in the bathroom causes the tank to sweat a lot. When the tank was insulated
before it cut down on the amount of dripping water I had to towel up
continually.


  #4  
Old October 10th 04, 04:45 AM
Edwin Pawlowski
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Default


"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
t...
I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.


Not he only way it forms. Cold well water, repeated use with a few family
members. Don't know if they still do, but American Standard offered a liner
for just that reason.

Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.


  #5  
Old October 10th 04, 01:54 PM
Michael Baugh
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Default

Understood. And it's a very commom condition.
But consider that it may also represent the existence
of rather high humidity in the bathroom.

My first suggestion is to put in one of "leak sentry"
fill valves from Fluidmaster. It keeps the float from
dropping as water leaks past the flapper valve, so you only
have new water coming in when someone actually flushes.

Second suggestion is that you notice whether you have
any mold forming in the bathroom. Because it needs humidity
of 55% to form and thrive. Plenty of condensate at the tank
would suggest plenty of available moisture in the air.

I've seen an insulating kit at Home Depot, with the Styrofoam
panels enclosed in plastic to keep their cells from getting
water-logged, but I see that as a Band-Aid to cover the existence
of other conditions that should be corrected.

Nope, I don't have mold forming anymore, now that I have insulated
my outside wall with Styrofoam, installed a humidity-sensing vent
fan, and a 52" ceiling fan to run when the light is turned on. No
condensate on the tank either, unless the toilet gets flushed during
or immediately before someone's shower.

slushfund wrote in message
...
I'd like to insulate because in winter the incoming supply of water is
fairly cold. My basement is unheated which doesn't give the supply pipes a
chance to warm up at all. When this water settles in the toilet tank, the
difference in temperature between the water in the tank and the ambient

air
in the bathroom causes the tank to sweat a lot. When the tank was

insulated
before it cut down on the amount of dripping water I had to towel up
continually.




  #6  
Old October 10th 04, 02:12 PM
Michael Baugh
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Posts: n/a
Default

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
om...
Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.


I'm an inspector. I see conditions, and corrections, in
hundreds of houses. It is quite impressive how ingenious
some of the fixes have been. Including one where the
person removed his tank, sprayed "Great Stuff" foam
on it, shaved off portions that interfered with putting
it back into place, extended the flush handle, and got
his wife to make a cover for it, including the lid. End
result was quite pretty. He had even made a different
attachment for the toilet seat lid so that it could be raised
and would stay in place. I felt that what he had done had
considerable elegance, and told him so.

However, his wife was routinely needing to deal with mold
growth in the bathroom. After he realized that the conditions
were related, he devoted his artistry to the overall problem of
moisture accumulation. Nowadays, he sees the insulated
commode tank as a monument to seeing a problem instead
of looking at the bigger picture.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
om...
Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.




  #7  
Old October 10th 04, 02:18 PM
Rich
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
t...
I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.


Not he only way it forms. Cold well water, repeated use with a few family
members. Don't know if they still do, but American Standard offered a
liner for just that reason.

Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.

Why not install a mixing valve from the hot water line? Mix in just enough
hot water to the fill to keep the water below the dew point. Find the
humidity of the room and adjust the valve to get the desired temp. Wastes a
little hot water but solves the condensation problem.

Rich



  #8  
Old October 10th 04, 03:32 PM
willshak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Michael Baugh wrote:

I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.
=20

The temperature of my 300+ feet deep well water filling the tank is=20
about 55=BA F year round. If the bathroom is warmer than 55=BA, any=20
humidity, even the least amount of ambient humidity in the house air,=20
condenses on the tank continually until the water in the tank reaches=20
room temperature, where condensation no longer forms. This can be a=20
couple of hours, unless flushed again. Until that time, the condensation =

builds up and the excess drips onto the floor. Insulating the inside of=20
the tank with foam, or the outside of the tank with those nice fuzzy=20
covers that disguises your toilet so it looks like an upholstered chair, =

prevents the condensation from forming on the cold tank. All without=20
using using electricity.

slushfund wrote in message=


...
=20

About 10 years ago I insulated the toilet tank with a kit from Home Dep=

ot
maybe. After some years it finally gave up the ghost. I'd like to insul=

ate
it again but the kits I see now are the white styrofoam not the closed
=20

cell
=20

translucent sheets I'd used previously. Before I can redo it though I'v=

e
=20

got
=20

to get rid of the old adhesive inside the tank. Any ideas on a good
=20

product
=20

to get rid of this residue?
Know if they still sell that closed cell insulation instead o=

f
this styrofoam? Haven't checked any local plumbing shops yet.


=20



=20


  #9  
Old October 10th 04, 07:48 PM
slushfund
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No mold in the bathroom since fan is used during and after showers
for a long time to evacuate most if not all the excess moisture. Simply due
to difference in temp between air and water in the tank. Thought of
installing a mixing valve but most people I've talked to that have had them
say that they plug up after a while and have to be replaced. It seems the
insulation of the tank lasted at least 10-12 years for short money too.
Just can't find the old type of insulation I had in there.
Think I should just scrape the old adhesive off from the inside of
the tank?


  #10  
Old October 10th 04, 07:54 PM
Edwin Pawlowski
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Posts: n/a
Default



"slushfund" wrote in message
Just can't find the old type of insulation I had in there.
Think I should just scrape the old adhesive off from the inside of
the tank?


Don't look for tank insulation. Look for sheets of ethafoam (polyethylene
foam) and glue it in place. It is a common packaging material and you can
find it in 1/8" to 2" thickness.


 




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