insulating the toilet tank
 

About 10 years ago I insulated the toilet tank with a kit from Home Depot
maybe. After some years it finally gave up the ghost. I'd like to insulate
it again but the kits I see now are the white styrofoam not the closed cell
translucent sheets I'd used previously. Before I can redo it though I've got
to get rid of the old adhesive inside the tank. Any ideas on a good product
to get rid of this residue?
Know if they still sell that closed cell insulation instead of
this styrofoam? Haven't checked any local plumbing shops yet.

I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.

slushfund wrote in message
...
About 10 years ago I insulated the toilet tank with a kit from Home Depot
maybe. After some years it finally gave up the ghost. I'd like to insulate
it again but the kits I see now are the white styrofoam not the closed
cell
translucent sheets I'd used previously. Before I can redo it though I've
got
to get rid of the old adhesive inside the tank. Any ideas on a good
product
to get rid of this residue?
Know if they still sell that closed cell insulation instead of
this styrofoam? Haven't checked any local plumbing shops yet.

I'd like to insulate because in winter the incoming supply of water is
fairly cold. My basement is unheated which doesn't give the supply pipes a
chance to warm up at all. When this water settles in the toilet tank, the
difference in temperature between the water in the tank and the ambient air
in the bathroom causes the tank to sweat a lot. When the tank was insulated
before it cut down on the amount of dripping water I had to towel up
continually.

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
t...
I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.

Not he only way it forms. Cold well water, repeated use with a few family
members. Don't know if they still do, but American Standard offered a liner
for just that reason.

Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.

Understood. And it's a very commom condition.
But consider that it may also represent the existence
of rather high humidity in the bathroom.

My first suggestion is to put in one of "leak sentry"
fill valves from Fluidmaster. It keeps the float from
dropping as water leaks past the flapper valve, so you only
have new water coming in when someone actually flushes.

Second suggestion is that you notice whether you have
any mold forming in the bathroom. Because it needs humidity
of 55% to form and thrive. Plenty of condensate at the tank
would suggest plenty of available moisture in the air.

I've seen an insulating kit at Home Depot, with the Styrofoam
panels enclosed in plastic to keep their cells from getting
water-logged, but I see that as a Band-Aid to cover the existence
of other conditions that should be corrected.

Nope, I don't have mold forming anymore, now that I have insulated
my outside wall with Styrofoam, installed a humidity-sensing vent
fan, and a 52" ceiling fan to run when the light is turned on. No
condensate on the tank either, unless the toilet gets flushed during
or immediately before someone's shower.

slushfund wrote in message
...
I'd like to insulate because in winter the incoming supply of water is
fairly cold. My basement is unheated which doesn't give the supply pipes a
chance to warm up at all. When this water settles in the toilet tank, the
difference in temperature between the water in the tank and the ambient
air
in the bathroom causes the tank to sweat a lot. When the tank was
insulated
before it cut down on the amount of dripping water I had to towel up
continually.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
om...
Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.


I'm an inspector. I see conditions, and corrections, in
hundreds of houses. It is quite impressive how ingenious
some of the fixes have been. Including one where the
person removed his tank, sprayed "Great Stuff" foam
on it, shaved off portions that interfered with putting
it back into place, extended the flush handle, and got
his wife to make a cover for it, including the lid. End
result was quite pretty. He had even made a different
attachment for the toilet seat lid so that it could be raised
and would stay in place. I felt that what he had done had
considerable elegance, and told him so.

However, his wife was routinely needing to deal with mold
growth in the bathroom. After he realized that the conditions
were related, he devoted his artistry to the overall problem of
moisture accumulation. Nowadays, he sees the insulated
commode tank as a monument to seeing a problem instead
of looking at the bigger picture.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote in message
om...
Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
om...

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
t...
I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.

Not he only way it forms. Cold well water, repeated use with a few family
members. Don't know if they still do, but American Standard offered a
liner for just that reason.

Don't be afraid to open your mind to other conditions that your own house.
Why not install a mixing valve from the hot water line? Mix in just enough
hot water to the fill to keep the water below the dew point. Find the
humidity of the room and adjust the valve to get the desired temp. Wastes a
little hot water but solves the condensation problem.

Rich

Michael Baugh wrote:

I suggest that you are asking the wrong question.
I'll ask you, why do you want to insulate it?

The condensation forms steadily on a tank when the
flapper valve leaks, causing a steady source of chilled
water to have to be delivered to the tank.
=20

The temperature of my 300+ feet deep well water filling the tank is=20
about 55=BA F year round. If the bathroom is warmer than 55=BA, any=20
humidity, even the least amount of ambient humidity in the house air,=20
condenses on the tank continually until the water in the tank reaches=20
room temperature, where condensation no longer forms. This can be a=20
couple of hours, unless flushed again. Until that time, the condensation =

builds up and the excess drips onto the floor. Insulating the inside of=20
the tank with foam, or the outside of the tank with those nice fuzzy=20
covers that disguises your toilet so it looks like an upholstered chair, =

prevents the condensation from forming on the cold tank. All without=20
using using electricity.

slushfund wrote in message=

...
=20

About 10 years ago I insulated the toilet tank with a kit from Home Dep=
ot
maybe. After some years it finally gave up the ghost. I'd like to insul=
ate
it again but the kits I see now are the white styrofoam not the closed
=20

cell
=20

translucent sheets I'd used previously. Before I can redo it though I'v=
e
=20

got
=20

to get rid of the old adhesive inside the tank. Any ideas on a good
=20

product
=20

to get rid of this residue?
Know if they still sell that closed cell insulation instead o=
f
this styrofoam? Haven't checked any local plumbing shops yet.


=20



=20

No mold in the bathroom since fan is used during and after showers
for a long time to evacuate most if not all the excess moisture. Simply due
to difference in temp between air and water in the tank. Thought of
installing a mixing valve but most people I've talked to that have had them
say that they plug up after a while and have to be replaced. It seems the
insulation of the tank lasted at least 10-12 years for short money too.
Just can't find the old type of insulation I had in there.
Think I should just scrape the old adhesive off from the inside of
the tank?

"slushfund" wrote in message
Just can't find the old type of insulation I had in there.
Think I should just scrape the old adhesive off from the inside of
the tank?

Don't look for tank insulation. Look for sheets of ethafoam (polyethylene
foam) and glue it in place. It is a common packaging material and you can
find it in 1/8" to 2" thickness.

Thanks. That sounds like what I had in the past. I'll see if I can locate
some. Any suggestions on what type of glue?

slushfund wrote:

No mold in the bathroom since fan is used during and after showers
for a long time to evacuate most if not all the excess moisture. Simply due
to difference in temp between air and water in the tank. Thought of
installing a mixing valve but most people I've talked to that have had them
say that they plug up after a while and have to be replaced. It seems the
insulation of the tank lasted at least 10-12 years for short money too.
Just can't find the old type of insulation I had in there.
Think I should just scrape the old adhesive off from the inside of
the tank?

I can tell you that almost all of the styrofoam insulation that failed
was on the bottom of the tank, The sides are still intact. I just looked
in there and there are still little styrofoam balls floating on the
surface of the water. I put this styrofoam kit in the tank more than 10
years ago, so the life span of both is about the same. I don't have much
glue left on the bottom of the tank other than a few 1" round spots
where the styrofoam is gone, since I had just tacked it in there.
Perhaps if I had put a lot of glue in there, the bottom wouldn't have
broken up. I don't know if you can scrape it out, but I suppose it can
be done. I'm not going to bother.

"slushfund" wrote in message
...
Thanks. That sounds like what I had in the past. I'll see if I can locate
some. Any suggestions on what type of glue?

I would try silicon caulk.

However you can get a kit at Lowes for less than $20

HRL wrote:

"slushfund" wrote in message
...


Thanks. That sounds like what I had in the past. I'll see if I can locate
some. Any suggestions on what type of glue?



I would try silicon caulk.

However you can get a kit at Lowes for less than $20

Yep. And if you save all those styrofoam sheets that come in many boxes,
you can do it all for the price of the glue alone. :-)
A couple of months ago. I bought a 3 tier resin garden fountain from
Lowes. It came in a large plastic box that was corrugated like the
cardboard ones. Both my wife and I stated what a good, sturdy, well
built box it was. I still have it in the garage, wondering what I can do
with it. :-)

I'll look for some of that foam. I was concerned about the glue
because sometimes it can actually eat away at the styrofoam and not perform
as glue but solvent. Don't have a Lowe's around here yet but one is being
built as we speak. I'm sure I can squirrel something up though. Thanks for
the answers and ideas.

"willshak" wrote in message
...
HRL wrote:

"slushfund" wrote in
message
...


Thanks. That sounds like what I had in the past. I'll see if I can
locate
some. Any suggestions on what type of glue?



I would try silicon caulk.

However you can get a kit at Lowes for less than $20

Yep. And if you save all those styrofoam sheets that come in many boxes,
you can do it all for the price of the glue alone. :-)
A couple of months ago. I bought a 3 tier resin garden fountain from
Lowes. It came in a large plastic box that was corrugated like the
cardboard ones. Both my wife and I stated what a good, sturdy, well
built box it was. I still have it in the garage, wondering what I can do
with it. :-)
Or you can do like I did - Move to the western states. High humidity is 15%

HRL wrote:

"willshak" wrote in message
...


HRL wrote:



"slushfund" wrote in


message


...




Thanks. That sounds like what I had in the past. I'll see if I can


locate


some. Any suggestions on what type of glue?




I would try silicon caulk.

However you can get a kit at Lowes for less than $20



Yep. And if you save all those styrofoam sheets that come in many boxes,
you can do it all for the price of the glue alone. :-)
A couple of months ago. I bought a 3 tier resin garden fountain from
Lowes. It came in a large plastic box that was corrugated like the
cardboard ones. Both my wife and I stated what a good, sturdy, well
built box it was. I still have it in the garage, wondering what I can do
with it. :-)


Or you can do like I did - Move to the western states. High humidity is 15%

And that is good because...?

I found the bottom failed also. I think it's because that's the area that
receives most of the agitation when the tank is flushed.

slushfund wrote:

I'll look for some of that foam. I was concerned about the glue
because sometimes it can actually eat away at the styrofoam and not perform
as glue but solvent. Don't have a Lowe's around here yet but one is being
built as we speak. I'm sure I can squirrel something up though. Thanks for
the answers and ideas.

If I can think back long enough (and it is a real challenge), there was
no Lowes where I live so it might have been Home Depot where i bought
the tank insulation.

"willshak" wrote in message
...
HRL wrote:

"willshak" wrote in message
...


HRL wrote:



"slushfund" wrote in


message


...




Thanks. That sounds like what I had in the past. I'll see if I can


locate


some. Any suggestions on what type of glue?




I would try silicon caulk.

However you can get a kit at Lowes for less than $20



Yep. And if you save all those styrofoam sheets that come in many boxes,
you can do it all for the price of the glue alone. :-)
A couple of months ago. I bought a 3 tier resin garden fountain from
Lowes. It came in a large plastic box that was corrugated like the
cardboard ones. Both my wife and I stated what a good, sturdy, well
built box it was. I still have it in the garage, wondering what I can do
with it. :-)


Or you can do like I did - Move to the western states. High humidity is
15%

And that is good because...?

Never have a problem with moisture. There isn't enough to go around. We
cool the house by evaporating water.

I recall seeing one where the guy had taken some of the
political yardsigns, which are made with a corrugated
plastic. He cut the sections so that it was a force fit on
the sides and bottom, with the sides holding the bottom
one in place.
He said that after he had a good fit, that he had plugged
the exposed openings, but he couldn't remember what he
used, and thought it might have been silicon. Said that
even if water got in, it would still keep colder water from
being able to have much effect on the tank surface. He
seemed to be pleased with the result, because he was
counting on doing it again if he got another commode
and had to replace the tank at the same time.

slushfund wrote in message
...
I found the bottom failed also. I think it's because that's the area that
receives most of the agitation when the tank is flushed.