[noname87]

I am having issues with my well. It is a two inch well that is
approximately 35 feet deep and has a jet pump. The well was drilled in
1965. The well head is buried. I have been told by the previous owner
that the foot valve and well pipe were replaced sometime around 2007.
I suspect that the foot valve is as low as it can go. I have had two
main issues:

1) For the last several months, I have been getting air in the system.
Just very short burst when I turn on the faucets or shower. After a
heavy rain last week, the problem is significantly less. I have never
run out of water or had the pressure drop to an unusable pressure. Our
household of three people average a total of 1 shower, 1 wash load, 1
dishwasher load a day plus the usual toilet flushing. No outside water
usage.

2) After a heavy rain the water will be cloudly (more redish) for a
day or two. I am in NC with that nice reddish soil.

So far, I have tried the following:

1) I ran the shower until the pump kicks on at 38 psi. The pump will
restore the pressue to the cutoff pressure of 58 at the rate of 1 psi
per minute (20 minutes total). The shower draws 2 gpm. If I try the
test with the other shower ( 1 GPM) the pressure increases at 2 psi
per minute. This seems to indicate that the well yield is marginal.

2) I closed the shutoff valve to the house and monitor the pressure at
the bladder tank, There was no drop in pressure. I assume this
indicates the foot valve is good and there are no holes in the pipe.

3) I had a pump tech out and he stated that the pump and bladder are
okay. He recommended opening the well and surging the well to try to
improve the yield. A $1000+ job. It seem this might help if the water
level is dropping low enough to air in but doesn't address the
sediment issue.

4) I have discussed this with two well drillers. They both stated that
surging the well could 1) cause more problems and 2) be a waste of
money. They think the sediment could be from a hole in the casing or a
failing seal where the casing meets the bedrock. Either way, they
claim that surface water could be entering the well and recommended a
new well (Not surprising. They are drillers.). They both feel that the
system mechanicals (bladder, pump, jet, foot valve and pipes) were
working properly. They felt that opening the well would have little to
no benifit. I tend to believe them.

Any thoughts? I am looking into a new well. In my area, most new wells
are 6 inch drilled to 200-300 feet. Needless to say, this is not
cheap. The property will also make running the pipe difficult and
expensive. I would just like a feeling if what I am being told makes
sense.

Thanks for any help.

[Joe]

On Nov 2, 9:30*pm, noname87 wrote:
I am having issues with my well. It is a two inch well that is
approximately 35 feet deep and has a jet pump. The well was drilled in
1965. The well head is buried. I have been told by the previous owner
that the foot valve and well pipe were replaced sometime around 2007.
I suspect that the foot valve is as low as it can go. I have had two
main issues:

1) For the last several months, I have been getting air in the system.
Just very short burst when I turn on the faucets or shower. After a
heavy rain last week, the problem is significantly less. I have never
run out of water or had the pressure drop to an unusable pressure. Our
household of three people average a total of 1 shower, 1 wash load, 1
dishwasher load a day plus the usual toilet flushing. No outside water
usage.

2) After a heavy rain the water will be cloudly (more redish) for a
day or two. I am in NC with that nice reddish soil.

So far, I have tried the following:

1) I ran the shower until the pump kicks on at 38 psi. The pump will
restore the pressue to the cutoff pressure of 58 at the rate of 1 psi
per minute (20 minutes total). The shower draws 2 gpm. If I try the
test with the other shower ( 1 GPM) the pressure increases at 2 psi
per minute. This seems to indicate that the well yield is marginal.

2) I closed the shutoff valve to the house and monitor the pressure at
the bladder tank, There was no drop in pressure. I assume this
indicates the foot valve is good and there are no holes in the pipe.

3) I had a pump tech out and he stated that the pump and bladder are
okay. He recommended opening the well and surging the well to try to
improve the yield. A $1000+ job. It seem this might help if the water
level is dropping low enough to air in but doesn't address the
sediment issue.

4) I have discussed this with two well drillers. They both stated that
surging the well could 1) cause more problems and 2) be a waste of
money. They think the sediment could be from a hole in the casing or a
failing seal where the casing meets the bedrock. Either way, they
claim that surface water could be entering the well and recommended a
new well (Not surprising. They are drillers.). They both feel that the
system mechanicals (bladder, pump, jet, foot valve and pipes) were
working properly. They felt that opening the well would have little to
no benifit. I tend to believe them.

Any thoughts? I am looking into a new well. In my area, most new wells
are 6 inch drilled to 200-300 feet. Needless to say, this is not
cheap. The property will also make running the pipe difficult and
expensive. I would just like a feeling if what I am being told makes
sense.

Thanks for any help.

Your future plans will dictate what the best course will be. If you
are certain to move in a year or two, live with it. If you expect to
be there for some years, invest in a better well. All wells can change
over time, especially shallow ones like yours. A good deep well can
last decades and in better developments with suitable aquifers, a
single well can service multiple houses.
At present, you are getting ground water in your system, possibly with
contamination.

Joe

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 19:30:43 -0700 (PDT), noname87
wrote:




2) After a heavy rain the water will be cloudly (more redish) for a
day or two. I am in NC with that nice reddish soil.





4) I have discussed this with two well drillers. They both stated that
surging the well could 1) cause more problems and 2) be a waste of
money. They think the sediment could be from a hole in the casing or a
failing seal where the casing meets the bedrock. Either way, they
claim that surface water could be entering the well and recommended a
new well (Not surprising. They are drillers.).


Any thoughts? I am looking into a new well. In my area, most new wells
are 6 inch drilled to 200-300 feet. Needless to say, this is not
cheap. The property will also make running the pipe difficult and
expensive. I would just like a feeling if what I am being told makes
sense.

Thanks for any help.

After a rain, the water is cloudy. That indicates the leaking the
drillers told yo about. 35 feet is rather shallow for a well today,
at least where I live. I think they are probably correct.

[noname87]

My plan is to be here a while. I just want some feedback before
commiting to a $6-10,000 project.

[noname87]

In this area, 2" shallow wells with jet pumps were common when the
houses were built in the sixties. I was told partly because they were
cheap and many of the houses orginally were used more as vacation
homes. As time went on, the well drillers switched to 6" deep wells
and the houses became year round homes.

I suspect that I will be drilling a new well. Unfortunately, I have
been warned that the drilling rig will crack the driveway and the
trenching equipment could damage my walks and retaining walls.

[Home Guy]

noname87 wrote:

I suspect that I will be drilling a new well. Unfortunately, I have
been warned that the drilling rig will crack the driveway and the
trenching equipment could damage my walks and retaining walls.

Is municipal water not an option for you?

Do you have any neighbors close by where you could tap into their water
(and pay them for it) or perhaps drill a shared well between you and
other neighbors if they are also facing a similar problem with their
wells?

[dpb]

On 11/2/2011 9:30 PM, noname87 wrote:
I am having issues with my well. It is a two inch well that is
approximately 35 feet deep and has a jet pump. The well was drilled in
1965. The well head is buried. I have been told by the previous owner
that the foot valve and well pipe were replaced sometime around 2007.
I suspect that the foot valve is as low as it can go. I have had two
main issues:

1) For the last several months, I have been getting air in the system.
Just very short burst when I turn on the faucets or shower. After a
heavy rain last week, the problem is significantly less. I have never
run out of water or had the pressure drop to an unusable pressure. Our
household of three people average a total of 1 shower, 1 wash load, 1
dishwasher load a day plus the usual toilet flushing. No outside water
usage.

2) After a heavy rain the water will be cloudly (more redish) for a
day or two. I am in NC with that nice reddish soil.
....

4) I have discussed this with two well drillers. They both stated that
surging the well could 1) cause more problems and 2) be a waste of
money. They think the sediment could be from a hole in the casing or a
failing seal where the casing meets the bedrock. Either way, they
claim that surface water could be entering the well and recommended a
new well (Not surprising. They are drillers.). They both feel that the
system mechanicals (bladder, pump, jet, foot valve and pipes) were
working properly. They felt that opening the well would have little to
no benifit. I tend to believe them.

Any thoughts? I am looking into a new well. In my area, most new wells
are 6 inch drilled to 200-300 feet. Needless to say, this is not
cheap. The property will also make running the pipe difficult and
expensive. I would just like a feeling if what I am being told makes
sense.
....

Agree w/ both previous respondents; your well is limited capacity and is
getting groundwater contamination from some source. I would
_immediately_ get a test for that; you may have a potentially serious
health hazard there depending on the source path and what it is picking
up on the way.

You should be able to shore the driveway to be able to cross it w/ a
drill rig; the rest will be dependent on just how good and careful (or
lack thereof) the operators of equipment are and whether they give a
rats patootie or not about what they deliberately try to destroy vis a
vis attempt to save. My experience while in E TN was that the general
attitude was good 'ol boys are gonna' just git-er-done and the heck w/
the consequences; I suspect if you're in W NC in particular that's
probably the likely there as well. Son is down in the Raleigh area;
there seems to be more sensibilities in play there in the more metro area.

But, it appears a new well is in your future sooner rather than later;
the alternatives someone else pointed out are perhaps worth some
consideration but shared wells are also very potentially shared headaches.

--

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

On Nov 2, 9:47*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 19:30:43 -0700 (PDT), noname87





wrote:

2) After a heavy rain the water will be cloudly (more redish) for a
day or two. I am in NC with that nice reddish soil.

4) I have discussed this with two well drillers. They both stated that
surging the well could 1) cause more problems and 2) be a waste of
money. They think the sediment could be from a hole in the casing or a
failing seal where the casing meets the bedrock. Either way, they
claim that surface water could be entering the well and recommended a
new well (Not surprising. They are drillers.).

Any thoughts? I am looking into a new well. In my area, most new wells
are 6 inch drilled to 200-300 feet. Needless to say, this is not
cheap. The property will also make running the pipe difficult and
expensive. I would just like a feeling if what I am being told makes
sense.

Thanks for any help.

After a rain, the water is cloudy. *That indicates the leaking the
drillers told yo about. *35 feet is rather shallow for a well today,
at least where I live. *I think they are probably correct.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Did the OP say if they were on Septic or municipal sewers, I don't
think he said? Septic would make it even more important to get a new
well!!!

[Harry K]

On Nov 3, 6:02*am, Home Guy wrote:
noname87 wrote:
I suspect that I will be drilling a new well. Unfortunately, I have
been warned that the drilling rig will crack the driveway and the
trenching equipment could damage my walks and retaining walls.

Is municipal water not an option for you?

Do you have any neighbors close by where you could tap into their water
(and pay them for it) or perhaps drill a shared well between you and
other neighbors if they are also facing a similar problem with their
wells?

If the only reason you think you have a problem is the burst of air,
that is a common occurance with many wells. It is just outgasing of
air that has been disolved in the water, comes out when pressure is
released. My well does the same occasionally and it is measured at 26
gal/min recovery.

I saw nothing in your original message about he well actually running
out of water.
Harry K

[noname87]

I do have a septic system,

I have never run out of water.

Sharing a well would probably not be an option. I doubt my nieghbors
would go for it. They are good people but I am sure a share well would
have an impact on the house value.

The drillers I talked to basically said to expect to have multiple new
cracks in the driveway. In their defense, I can't see how they can
avoid it. What I find distrubing is that they seem to have the idea
that their job stops at drillinfg the hole. Any mess including the
material from the well and the runoff seems to be my problem.
Considering that they plan in drilling a 10" hole to bedrock (50-70')
and then another 200 feet at 6", there could be mess. It appears that
they are use to new construction where the builder handles the clean
up.

[dpb]

On 11/3/2011 1:07 PM, noname87 wrote:
I do have a septic system,

I have never run out of water.

Sharing a well would probably not be an option. I doubt my nieghbors
would go for it. They are good people but I am sure a share well would
have an impact on the house value.

The drillers I talked to basically said to expect to have multiple new
cracks in the driveway. In their defense, I can't see how they can
avoid it. What I find distrubing is that they seem to have the idea
that their job stops at drillinfg the hole. Any mess including the
material from the well and the runoff seems to be my problem.
Considering that they plan in drilling a 10" hole to bedrock (50-70')
and then another 200 feet at 6", there could be mess. It appears that
they are use to new construction where the builder handles the clean
up.

Even though you haven't actually run out, sucking air is evident that it
may not stay that way particularly if continue drought and if there's
other neighbor pressure on the aquifer.

The really serious issue in my mind is the apparent contamination issue
from groundwater--that _might_ be repairable, might not, but you would
have to discover the entry source. As noted, it's certainly a health
concern if not (yet) an actual problem and should certainly as noted
earlier get a water test to ensure don't have high coliform or other
contaminants.

They _can_ timber the drive to spread the load and prevent breaking it
up; it's not dealing w/ stuff like that routinely that I found in E TN
just seemed to not be on the radar whereas what I was/am used to is that
it's just part of the routine to avoid tearing up anything that was
worth saving (as a decent driveway generally would be more expensive to
replace as compared to spreading out a few timbers first before backing
over it). A bobtail drill rig is big, but not _that_ big but what it's
certainly doable w/o really major hassle.

Is there a county health ordinance in place and/or other regulating
body? I'm not directly familiar w/ NC outside Wake County; even TN has
at least minimal requirements now although didn't when we first got
there in the late 70s had by the early 90s. Those mandated at least the
locations acceptable wrt septic and leach fields, and were required.
One would think there are enough wells dug that the cleanup etc would be
pretty routine altho if it is like TN was early in our time there they
could be used to just dumping over the side of the hill out of sight and
call it good...

--

[noname87]

Yes, we do have a health department that put restrictions on wells
built after 1970. The new rules will probably limit me to a 200 sqft
area on my estate of .6 acres. The rest is either too close to the
spectic (must be100ft) or structure (25) or is covered by cement
(driveway, etc). Unfortunately, the former owner put in a large
driveway and a very large slab of cement that he used as an skate
park. I guess after that, he couldn't afford the well.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 19:47:30 -0700 (PDT), noname87
wrote:

My plan is to be here a while. I just want some feedback before
commiting to a $6-10,000 project.

- paper / pencil

"Statement of Work"

1) stay off my septic (clearly marked)

2)

3)

Agree with it and with the well company.

Just sayin'

[dpb]

On 11/3/2011 2:07 PM, noname87 wrote:
Yes, we do have a health department that put restrictions on wells
built after 1970. The new rules will probably limit me to a 200 sqft
area on my estate of .6 acres. The rest is either too close to the
spectic (must be100ft) or structure (25) or is covered by cement
(driveway, etc). Unfortunately, the former owner put in a large
driveway and a very large slab of cement that he used as an skate
park. I guess after that, he couldn't afford the well.

http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/programs/extension/publicat/wqwm/ag469.html

Note the above includes the fact that drillers must be registered in NC
and perhaps in your county.

While it doesn't mention who's responsible for the site environmental
impact, I'd think it a requirement from the runoff and other control
that they do so and I'd not let them abdicate that responsibility to me.
If you can't get satisfaction in how that's going to get done I'd
suggest starting w/ the locals and then the NC Ground Water group in the
NC Dept of Environment, Health, ... I know a guy (geologist) in that
group in Raleigh (he grew up here and his Dad is still here so he's here
off and on) and he's talked at length about their oversight in the
coffee shop mornings when he's been here visiting so I know they're
pretty serious in Raleigh, anyway.

--

[bob haller]

http://www.deeprock.com/HD/Default.aspx --

may be another way a DIY well drilling machine. its lightweight so no
collateral damage and could reuse your original water line.

in any case its a interesting option

[noname87]

Thank you for thr link.

lI will try to cover these details in the contract. I am stilling
trying to determine what is consider normal business practice for well
drillers.

I had one today say that they are not responsible for clean up. He
said they will try to contain the mess but that sometimes it gets away
from them. It seems that these guys drill the well and whatever comes
out is left. It appears up to me to hire a clean up crew. I was
expecting ruts in the yard and damage to the driveway as my problem
but I wasn't planning on dealing with rock and soil debri from the
well.

I was also surprised at how specialized these people are. Some will do
all the plumbing to the bladder tank but will not connect to the pipe
in the house. Need a plumber for that. If the line has to go under a
walkway, that's another specialist. Need a hole for the pipe in the
foundation, yet another specialist.

[Oren[_2_]]

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 14:22:04 -0700 (PDT), noname87
wrote:

I was also surprised at how specialized these people are. Some will do
all the plumbing to the bladder tank but will not connect to the pipe
in the house. Need a plumber for that. If the line has to go under a
walkway, that's another specialist. Need a hole for the pipe in the
foundation, yet another specialist.

-- LMAO

[Harry K]

On Nov 3, 11:07*am, noname87 wrote:
I do have a septic system,

I have never run out of water.

Sharing a well would probably not be an option. I doubt my nieghbors
would go for it. They are good people but I am sure a share well would
have an impact on the house value.

The drillers I talked to basically said to expect to have multiple new
cracks in the driveway. In their defense, I can't see how they can
avoid it. What I find distrubing is that they seem to have the idea
that their job stops at drillinfg the hole. Any mess including the
material from the well and the runoff seems to be my problem.
Considering that they plan in drilling a 10" hole to bedrock (50-70')
and then another 200 feet at 6", there could be mess. It appears that
they are use to new construction where the builder handles the clean
up.

When I postd I forgot about the possible ground water contamination.
That I a real concern. Have the well tested both before and after it
the discoloration shows up.

As to shared well. Approach with caution. I was on one and wound up
the unpaid maintenance man, arguments about who paid for what, etc. I
finally drilled my own to get off it. Still have water rights
(deeded) to it though and the interconnection is still in place.

Again. The burst of air is not a concern unless you run out of water
while drawing it.

Harry K