[john[_16_]]

I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. (especially during the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors...and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live in the
Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . (currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:15:59 -0500, "john"
wrote:

I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. (especially during the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors...and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live in the
Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . (currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john
Well, you are right that there is radon outdoors, but the levels you
are seeing seem high. Regardless, when the weather is nice and you
open the windows, you could be lowering the pressure inside the house
due to the air rushing past the windows (venturi effect). That can
draw radon into the house from the basement. I am not saying that
*is* definitely happening - just that it could be happening. I had
radon levels of 4 to 6 (NE Ohio) and no amount of cualking or sealing
made any difference. I had a system installed which sucked air from
under the basement floor and exhausted it above the roof. The radon
levels in the house dropped dramatically and stayed there. The system
consisted of a small fan drawing the air up through a 4" pipe that was
inserted through the basement floor. I always wondered if just having
the pipe without the fan would have worked. We no longer live there,
so I will never know.

[Existential Angst]

"john" wrote in message
...
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just
recently believe the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30
minutes...i've had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the
foundation was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on
top...and vinyl flooring on top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time,
the radon levels would eventually fall.. (especially during the winter
when the ground is frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is right
now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the
radon levels would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease.... I
was pretty baffled by this, so I put the entire electronic monitor
outdoors instead of indoors...and the levels remained the same or even
rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live
in the Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . (currently , since the
ground is frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even put the electronic
radon monitor outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the number were
about the same there as well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the
most part... (the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring the
summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

What a pita problem....
But, kudos on the excellent sleuthing

What are acceptable indoor limits? Do pre-purchase housing inspections have
limits?

Mebbe the solution is to concrete increasing radii around the house, to seal
that stuff in?
Then, try to make the concrete livable/palatable. Mebbe pour fresh soil
over the 'crete?

Or mebbe dig, put boucou radon plastic down, and bring in fresh topsoil.
--
EA





john

[Mark]

On Feb 17, 8:15*pm, "john"
wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. *(especially during the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors....and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live in the
Mountains *(Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . * (currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? * I even put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck *(elevated)..and the number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

well no amount of sealing or anything else you can do to your home can
lower the indoor level to a level BELOW the outdoor level. So if your
indoor level now is close to the outdoor level, there is nothing more
you can do..

You can check the calibration of your meter, maybe all the reading are
hight... What kind of meter do you have?

Mark

[Stormin Mormon]

You're going to die! Quick! Everyone to the
cellar!

More seriously, how about call your local health
department. If nothing else, they can send someone
out to study the matter. And then use the force of
government to make you do expensive things that
make the problem worse, at your own expense.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"john"
wrote in message
...
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon
problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates
reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors
for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon
plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an
extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. (especially during
the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is
right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I
opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of
decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor
outdoors instead of indoors...and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and
not indoors... I live in the
Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally
averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 .
(currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even
put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the
number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average
around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading
dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in
2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

On Feb 17, 8:53*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
You're going to die! Quick! Everyone to the
cellar!

More seriously, how about call your local health
department. If nothing else, they can send someone
out to study the matter. And then use the force of
government to make you do expensive things that
make the problem worse, at your own expense.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"john"
wrote in ...
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon
problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates
reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors
for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon
plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an
extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. *(especially during
the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is
right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I
opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of
decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor
outdoors instead of indoors...and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and
not indoors... I live in the
Mountains *(Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally
averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 .
(currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? * I even
put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck *(elevated)..and the
number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average
around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading
dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in
2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

PA is known as an area with high radon levels. Have you tried the
meter in another town at least 10 miles away, and have you had the
meter calibrated as another poster recommended? It sounds like the
house is built on a slab. Is that correct?

[HeyBub[_3_]]

john wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just
recently believe the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30
minutes...i've had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part...
the foundation was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic
on top...and vinyl flooring on top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of
time, the radon levels would eventually fall.. (especially during
the winter when the ground is frozen and there is snow
everywhere...like it is right now)
During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the
radon levels would slowly increase in the house instead of
decrease.... I was pretty baffled by this, so I put the entire
electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors...and the levels
remained the same or even rose a bit.
This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I
live in the Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . (currently ,
since the ground is frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even put the electronic
radon monitor outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the number
were about the same there as well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for
the most part... (the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading
dooring the summer)
The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated


I think you're going to find Radon anywhere where granite is near the
surface.

You could move to south Texas, Louisiana, or Florida. It's mud all the way
down.

[ransley]

On Feb 17, 7:15*pm, "john"
wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. *(especially during the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors....and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live in the
Mountains *(Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . * (currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? * I even put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck *(elevated)..and the number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

How do you know the meter is correct and calibrated.

[Limp Arbor]

On Feb 17, 8:34*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 17 Feb 2010 20:15:59 -0500, "john"





wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just recently believe
the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30 minutes...i've
had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the foundation
was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on top...and vinyl flooring on
top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time, the radon
levels would eventually fall.. *(especially during the winter when the ground is
frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the radon levels
would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease.... I was pretty baffled by
this, so I put the entire electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors....and the
levels remained the same or even rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live in the
Mountains *(Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . * (currently , since the ground is
frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? * I even put the electronic radon monitor
outdoors on the 2nd deck *(elevated)..and the number were about the same there as
well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the most part...
(the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

Well, you are right that there is radon outdoors, but the levels you
are seeing seem high. *Regardless, when the weather is nice and you
open the windows, you could be lowering the pressure inside the house
due to the air rushing past the windows (venturi effect). *That can
draw radon into the house from the basement. *I am not saying that
*is* definitely happening - just that it could be happening. *I had
radon levels of 4 to 6 (NE Ohio) and no amount of cualking or sealing
made any difference. *I had a system installed which sucked air from
under the basement floor and exhausted it above the roof. *The radon
levels in the house dropped dramatically and stayed there. *The system
consisted of a small fan drawing the air up through a 4" pipe that was
inserted through the basement floor. *I always wondered if just having
the pipe without the fan would have worked. *We no longer live there,
so I will never know.



I also installed the fan and it made a huge difference (NW NJ).
Fairly easy install that can be done by a DIYer. Make a hole in the
floor, run PVC to the fan and through the roof.
My understanding is that this works best when there is plenty of
gravel under the concrete to facilitate air flow. A manometer
installed on the pipe lets you know it is working.

As far as just having the pipe with no fan...
This supposedly works if a 'passive' system is installed. This
includes many perforated pipes installed in the gravel that all get
tied together and vented outside. The slab is then poured over this.
If after the fact high levels are detected a fan can be installed on
the passive system to further reduce the radon.

As far as the sealed house having lower levels in the winter...
In a controlled, sealed environment as temp increases so does air
pressure. A warm sealed house will have higher pressure than outside
and under the slab. The radon goes elsewhere.

Since your house is relatively new you should have plenty of gravel
under the slab. Make a 4" hole and install the fan, you'll be good to
go. It is also recommended to seal the slab to the foundation. The
company that sold me my fan told me to sprinkle mortar all around the
perimeter except the corners and spritz with water to make the seal.
When I did the mortar after the fan was installed my manometer reading
went up and the radon level went down. The fan should be outside the
living space and not near any windows.

[Doug Miller]

In article , "HeyBub" wrote:
john wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just
recently believe the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30
minutes...i've had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part...
the foundation was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic
on top...and vinyl flooring on top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of
time, the radon levels would eventually fall.. (especially during
the winter when the ground is frozen and there is snow
everywhere...like it is right now)
During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the
radon levels would slowly increase in the house instead of
decrease.... I was pretty baffled by this, so I put the entire
electronic monitor outdoors instead of indoors...and the levels
remained the same or even rose a bit.
This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I
live in the Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . (currently ,
since the ground is frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even put the electronic
radon monitor outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the number
were about the same there as well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for
the most part... (the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading
dooring the summer)
The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated


I think you're going to find Radon anywhere where granite is near the
surface.

You could move to south Texas, Louisiana, or Florida. It's mud all the way
down.

And let's inject a little reality here, too. Radon is not the mass killer that
many people seem to think it is. According to the EPA, there are about 21,000
deaths per year from radon-induced lung cancers -- 86% of these among smokers.
http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html

The odds of a NON-smoker dying from radon-induced lung cancer (approximately
2,900 deaths per year in the U.S.) are lower than the odds of dying from:

- accidental poisoning (27,531 -- only 43 of which were infants or toddlers)
- falls (20,873)
- Parkinson's disease (19,566)
- homicide (18,573)
- aortic aneurysm (13,238)
- viral hepatitis (7,250)
- intestinal infections (6,639)
- accidental suffocation (5,912)
- being injured on the job (5,298)
- being hit by a car while on foot (5,021)
- anemia (3,996)
- accidental drowning (3,579)
- peptic ulcer (3,323)
- fire/smoke (3,109)

http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

[Limp Arbor]

On Feb 18, 8:49*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:

And let's inject a little reality here, too. Radon is not the mass killer that
many people seem to think it is. According to the EPA, there are about 21,000
deaths per year from radon-induced lung cancers -- 86% of these among smokers.http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html

The odds of a NON-smoker dying from radon-induced lung cancer (approximately
2,900 deaths per year in the U.S.) are lower than the odds of dying from:

- accidental poisoning (27,531 -- only 43 of which were infants or toddlers)
- falls (20,873)
- Parkinson's disease (19,566)
- homicide (18,573)
- aortic aneurysm (13,238)
- viral hepatitis (7,250)
- intestinal infections (6,639)
- accidental suffocation (5,912)
- being injured on the job (5,298)
- being hit by a car while on foot (5,021)
- anemia (3,996)
- accidental drowning (3,579)
- peptic ulcer (3,323)
- fire/smoke (3,109)

http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf



All true but is does make for good entertainment during home
inspections and closing negotiations. In NJ 4.0 pCi/L is the standard
threshhold number written into purchase contracts. Below that and the
buyer lives with it, above that and the seller fixes or provides a
credit. Of course all of this is negotiable but 4.0 is the usual
starting point. I think mine was found to be around 7 during the
inspection. Last test I did had it below 2.

For anyone else in NJ the DIY test kits that you mail in have an extra
NJ specific fee for the Peoples Republic of NJ.

[hr(bob) [email protected]]

On Feb 18, 8:04*am, Limp Arbor wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:49*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:







And let's inject a little reality here, too. Radon is not the mass killer that
many people seem to think it is. According to the EPA, there are about 21,000
deaths per year from radon-induced lung cancers -- 86% of these among smokers.http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html

The odds of a NON-smoker dying from radon-induced lung cancer (approximately
2,900 deaths per year in the U.S.) are lower than the odds of dying from:

- accidental poisoning (27,531 -- only 43 of which were infants or toddlers)
- falls (20,873)
- Parkinson's disease (19,566)
- homicide (18,573)
- aortic aneurysm (13,238)
- viral hepatitis (7,250)
- intestinal infections (6,639)
- accidental suffocation (5,912)
- being injured on the job (5,298)
- being hit by a car while on foot (5,021)
- anemia (3,996)
- accidental drowning (3,579)
- peptic ulcer (3,323)
- fire/smoke (3,109)

http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

All true but is does make for good entertainment during home
inspections and closing negotiations. *In NJ 4.0 pCi/L is the standard
threshhold number written into purchase contracts. *Below that and the
buyer lives with it, above that and the seller fixes or provides a
credit. *Of course all of this is negotiable but 4.0 is the usual
starting point. *I think mine was found to be around 7 during the
inspection. *Last test I did had it below 2.

For anyone else in NJ the DIY test kits that you mail in have an extra
NJ specific fee for the Peoples Republic of NJ.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is that because the results are mailed into the state for some sort of
record-keeping. What if you have a friend over the border in NY or PA
mail the results in for you?G

[Tony[_19_]]

john wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just
recently believe the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30
minutes...i've had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the
foundation was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on
top...and vinyl flooring on top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time,
the radon levels would eventually fall.. (especially during the winter
when the ground is frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is
right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the
radon levels would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease....
I was pretty baffled by this, so I put the entire electronic monitor
outdoors instead of indoors...and the levels remained the same or even
rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live
in the Mountains (Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . (currently , since
the ground is frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? I even put the electronic
radon monitor outdoors on the 2nd deck (elevated)..and the number were
about the same there as well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the
most part... (the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring
the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john


Getting high readings outside is almost impossible. The slightest
breeze would blow it all away. Unless you are in one of the worst radon
hot spots in the world and it's coming out of the ground all around the
house and yard and surrounding hundreds of feet or maybe a mile? Do all
the neighbors have lung cancer? How about the previous owner?

Any chance the radon monitor is not made for outdoor use and the
readings are way off?

[Caesar Romano]

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:49:37 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote Re Outdoor Radon is the problem..:

And let's inject a little reality here, too. Radon is not the mass killer that
many people seem to think it is. According to the EPA, there are about 21,000
deaths per year from radon-induced lung cancers -- 86% of these among smokers.
http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html

The odds of a NON-smoker dying from radon-induced lung cancer (approximately
2,900 deaths per year in the U.S.) are lower than the odds of dying from:

- accidental poisoning (27,531 -- only 43 of which were infants or toddlers)
- falls (20,873)
- Parkinson's disease (19,566)
- homicide (18,573)
- aortic aneurysm (13,238)
- viral hepatitis (7,250)
- intestinal infections (6,639)
- accidental suffocation (5,912)
- being injured on the job (5,298)
- being hit by a car while on foot (5,021)
- anemia (3,996)
- accidental drowning (3,579)
- peptic ulcer (3,323)
- fire/smoke (3,109)

http://www.cdc.gov/NCHS/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf

And that doesn't even take into account that the "2,900 deaths per
year in the U.S." is probably about a factor of 10 - 50 too high
because it is based on the LRNT (Linear Response No Threshold) model
of radiation effects in humans. The LRNT model is "conservative" but
about as far from reality as you can get.

Excellent post Doug. Thanks.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

[Limp Arbor]

On Feb 18, 10:05*am, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Feb 18, 8:04*am, Limp Arbor wrote:






All true but is does make for good entertainment during home
inspections and closing negotiations. *In NJ 4.0 pCi/L is the standard
threshhold number written into purchase contracts. *Below that and the
buyer lives with it, above that and the seller fixes or provides a
credit. *Of course all of this is negotiable but 4.0 is the usual
starting point. *I think mine was found to be around 7 during the
inspection. *Last test I did had it below 2.

For anyone else in NJ the DIY test kits that you mail in have an extra
NJ specific fee for the Peoples Republic of NJ.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is that because the results are mailed into the state for some sort of
record-keeping. *What if you have a friend over the border in NY or PA
mail the results in for you?G


The Czars in charge of licensing in NJ charge labs for the number of
tests they do per year. The more tests you do per year the more you
have to pay the state for your license.

I had my results mailed to a PA relative.

[ransley]

On Feb 18, 11:29*am, Tony wrote:
john wrote:
I've been trouble-shooting for 3 years my radon problem...but just
recently believe the problem is outdoors and not indoors.

I have an electronic radon monitor that updates reading like every 30
minutes...i've had it as well for about 3 years.

Basically I've sealed everything a 100% indoors for the most part... the
foundation was completely sealed of cracks... thick radon plastic on
top...and vinyl flooring on top of that..

I realized when I had the windows closed for an extended period of time,
the radon levels would eventually fall.. *(especially during the winter
when the ground is frozen and there is snow everywhere...like it is
right now)

During the Spring, Summer, and Autumn...if I opened the windows...the
radon levels would slowly increase in the house instead of decrease....
I was pretty baffled by this, so I put the entire electronic monitor
outdoors instead of indoors...and the levels remained the same or even
rose a bit.

This convinced me that the problem is outdoors and not indoors... I live
in the Mountains *(Pennsylvania)

And over the 3 year period the numbers generally averaged from 4.0 to
8.0...indoors... but never really got above 9.0 . * (currently , since
the ground is frozen...the indoor level is 1.9)

So my next question is...what to do now ? * I even put the electronic
radon monitor outdoors on the 2nd deck *(elevated)..and the number were
about the same there as well.

So in general, my outdoor radon levels average around 4.0 to 6.0 for the
most part... (the 8.0 I mentioned above was an indoor reading dooring
the summer)

The house was built in 1992... I bought it in 2005.

any advice is appreciated

john

Getting high readings outside is almost impossible. *The slightest
breeze would blow it all away. *Unless you are in one of the worst radon
hot spots in the world and it's coming out of the ground all around the
house and yard and surrounding hundreds of feet or maybe a mile? *Do all
the neighbors have lung cancer? *How about the previous owner?

Any chance the radon monitor is not made for outdoor use and the
readings are way off?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How about its so far out of calibration or isnt accurate anyway, thats
why his outdoor reading are high. Its probably a 119$ home owner unit,
now look at what pros and governments use , a 4000.00 unit. You really
have to wonder why a 4000.00 unit is needed, because it is accurate.

[john[_16_]]

thanks for the replies , guys..


You can check the calibration of your meter, maybe all the reading are
hight... What kind of meter do you have?
Mark


I'm using a SafetySiren Pro Series 3 Radon Detector... Even though its relatively
inexpensive. (under $200) It was very close to the mailed in readings done with the
charcoal detector. (on more than 1 occasion too)

Even though the max outdoor readings were only between 4.0 & 6.0 , I didn't both
calling the Local Health Authorities or whatever... If it was like 20.0...than
yeah.. I would think something was up with the soil.

I gotta do more testing in the spring to make sure... I may even do a mailed in
charcoal reading and keep the thing outside the whole time...I guess then I'll know
for sure.

But I remember when I used to live in Jersey, they would sometimes close down certain
areas because of unusually high levels of Radon in the ground. Like what causes
those kinds of situations ? People dump stuff in the ground? or is it naturally
occuring ?

I've got Radiant Heating here too ...and they think I have more than 1 slab....1 for
the garage area...and another 1 for the house. (garage is connected to the
house...but they still think there's 2 slabs total ) so basically nobody around
here even wants to touch it. I'm trying to find someone that goes the 'under the
foundation' route...with an outdoor fan..but nobody does that either...around here.
(Poconos area)


John

[ransley]

On Feb 19, 3:50*pm, "john"
wrote:
thanks for the replies , guys..

You can check the calibration of your meter, maybe all the reading are
hight... What kind of meter do you have?
Mark

I'm using a SafetySiren Pro Series 3 Radon Detector... Even though its relatively
inexpensive. *(under $200) *It was very close to the mailed in readings done with the
charcoal detector. * (on more than 1 occasion too)

Even though the max outdoor readings were only between 4.0 & 6.0 , *I didn't both
calling the Local Health Authorities or whatever... *If it was like 20.0...than
yeah.. *I would think something was up with the soil.

I gotta do more testing in the spring to make sure... I may even do a mailed in
charcoal reading and keep the thing outside the whole time...I guess then I'll know
for sure.

But I remember when I used to live in Jersey, they would sometimes close down certain
areas because of unusually high levels of Radon in the ground. *Like what causes
those kinds of situations ? *People dump stuff in the ground? *or is it naturally
occuring ?

I've got Radiant Heating here too ...and they think I have more than 1 slab....1 for
the garage area...and another 1 for the house. * (garage is connected to the
house...but they still think there's 2 slabs total ) * so basically nobody around
here even wants to touch it. * * I'm trying to find someone that goes the 'under the
foundation' route...with an outdoor fan..but nobody does that either...around here.
(Poconos area)

John

The simplest way to check its calibration would be take your meter to
a building where its known correct.Your local city or govenment
offices are correctly tested. I would call you building inspector, or
health dept, even engineer or architect, im sure they could find out
their buildings radon level in a phone call and let you leave your
meter there for testing. When I see a pro device costing thousands to
measure any number of things and a home owner unit of hundreds I know
its not going to have a low margin of error or have the quality of
build

[ransley]

On Feb 19, 3:50*pm, "john"
wrote:
thanks for the replies , guys..

You can check the calibration of your meter, maybe all the reading are
hight... What kind of meter do you have?
Mark

I'm using a SafetySiren Pro Series 3 Radon Detector... Even though its relatively
inexpensive. *(under $200) *It was very close to the mailed in readings done with the
charcoal detector. * (on more than 1 occasion too)

Even though the max outdoor readings were only between 4.0 & 6.0 , *I didn't both
calling the Local Health Authorities or whatever... *If it was like 20.0...than
yeah.. *I would think something was up with the soil.

I gotta do more testing in the spring to make sure... I may even do a mailed in
charcoal reading and keep the thing outside the whole time...I guess then I'll know
for sure.

But I remember when I used to live in Jersey, they would sometimes close down certain
areas because of unusually high levels of Radon in the ground. *Like what causes
those kinds of situations ? *People dump stuff in the ground? *or is it naturally
occuring ?

I've got Radiant Heating here too ...and they think I have more than 1 slab....1 for
the garage area...and another 1 for the house. * (garage is connected to the
house...but they still think there's 2 slabs total ) * so basically nobody around
here even wants to touch it. * * I'm trying to find someone that goes the 'under the
foundation' route...with an outdoor fan..but nobody does that either...around here.
(Poconos area)

John

I just looked at one pro 3 for 130$ online, it says its accuracy is I
believe 20% or 1pctl + - That is not accurate but a rough idea. I
would think it was good when new but may not be now.

[HeyBub[_3_]]

john wrote:

But I remember when I used to live in Jersey, they would sometimes
close down certain areas because of unusually high levels of Radon in
the ground. Like what causes those kinds of situations ? People
dump stuff in the ground? or is it naturally occuring ?

It's naturally occurring.

Radon is one of the byproducts of the radioactive decomposition of Uranium,
which, in turn, is found in granite. Radon has a half-life of about 3.5
days, so even if it were dumped somewhere, it would be undetectable in a
couple of weeks. Uranium, however, has a half-life measured in billions of
years, so the rocks under your house will be producing Radon until the sun
expires.

[Caesar Romano]

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 16:50:49 -0500, "john"
wrote Re Outdoor Radon is
the problem..:

But I remember when I used to live in Jersey, they would sometimes close down certain
areas because of unusually high levels of Radon in the ground. Like what causes
those kinds of situations ? People dump stuff in the ground? or is it naturally
occuring ?

Naturally occuring.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

[clot]

john wrote:
thanks for the replies , guys..


You can check the calibration of your meter, maybe all the reading
are hight... What kind of meter do you have?
Mark


I'm using a SafetySiren Pro Series 3 Radon Detector... Even though
its relatively inexpensive. (under $200) It was very close to the
mailed in readings done with the charcoal detector. (on more than 1
occasion too)
Even though the max outdoor readings were only between 4.0 & 6.0 , I
didn't both calling the Local Health Authorities or whatever... If
it was like 20.0...than yeah.. I would think something was up with
the soil.
I gotta do more testing in the spring to make sure... I may even do a
mailed in charcoal reading and keep the thing outside the whole
time...I guess then I'll know for sure.

But I remember when I used to live in Jersey, they would sometimes
close down certain areas because of unusually high levels of Radon in
the ground. Like what causes those kinds of situations ? People
dump stuff in the ground? or is it naturally occuring ?

I've got Radiant Heating here too ...and they think I have more than
1 slab....1 for the garage area...and another 1 for the house. (garage is
connected to the house...but they still think there's 2
slabs total ) so basically nobody around here even wants to touch
it. I'm trying to find someone that goes the 'under the
foundation' route...with an outdoor fan..but nobody does that
either...around here. (Poconos area)


Don't panic. Radon is the latest scare after asbestos, DDT et al. It is an
issue, but not too big. Companies are getting fat winding the gullible.

[Mark]

As far as the sealed house having lower levels in the winter...
In a controlled, sealed environment as temp increases so does air
pressure. *A warm sealed house will have higher pressure than outside
and under the slab. *The radon goes elsewhere.


This is wrong. A house is not "sealed". Hint: if you open an
basement window in the winter, does cold air flow in or does hot air
flow out?

In the winter, the inside of a home is usually at a LOWER pressure
compared to outside because heated air escapes small openings near the
upper portion of the home. That is why more radon is usually drawn in
during the winter.

Mark

[HeyBub[_3_]]

Mark wrote:
As far as the sealed house having lower levels in the winter...
In a controlled, sealed environment as temp increases so does air
pressure. A warm sealed house will have higher pressure than outside
and under the slab. The radon goes elsewhere.


This is wrong. A house is not "sealed". Hint: if you open an
basement window in the winter, does cold air flow in or does hot air
flow out?

Answer: Both.


In the winter, the inside of a home is usually at a LOWER pressure
compared to outside because heated air escapes small openings near the
upper portion of the home. That is why more radon is usually drawn in
during the winter.


Huh?

Admittedly, the heated air escapes, but that doesn't lower the air pressure
in the house - it equalizes the pressure to match the outside. If it didn't
leak out, the house would explode. Or rise off the foundation.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 21, 7:02�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Mark wrote:
As far as the sealed house having lower levels in the winter...
In a controlled, sealed environment as temp increases so does air
pressure. A warm sealed house will have higher pressure than outside
and under the slab. The radon goes elsewhere.

This is wrong. �A house is not "sealed". � Hint: �if you open an
basement window in the winter, does cold air flow in or does hot air
flow out?

Answer: Both.



In the winter, the inside of a home is usually at a LOWER pressure
compared to outside because heated air escapes small openings near the
upper portion of the home. �That is why more radon is usually drawn in
during the winter.

Huh?

Admittedly, the heated air escapes, but that doesn't lower the air pressure
in the house - it equalizes the pressure to match the outside. If it didn't
leak out, the house would explode. Or rise off the foundation.

any well sealed, like current energy efficent homes that have at least
one flue, for say hot water tank can be at negative pressure. flues,
exhaust fans etc.

the outside radon being higher makes no sense at all, most likely the
temperature and humidity change from moving the meter outside upsets
the reading.

If I were the OP I would just go ahead and have a radon control system
installed...... they arent that expensive.

although since my home sits higher than the road, I have considered
installing a freanch drain system draining to daylight near curb. this
would take care of water in bvasement AND allow the radon to vent
naturally to the outside.

radon is heavier than air, so it pools like water at low levels