Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Woodworking (rec.woodworking) Discussion forum covering all aspects of working with wood. All levels of expertise are encouraged to particiapte. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Can I hang cabinets from metal studs?
I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall.
I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? Brian Elfert |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? No, typically plywood is added between the studs & drywall for these applications |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 09:50:02 -0500, "longshot"
wrote: "Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? No, typically plywood is added between the studs & drywall for these applications Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs? |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
"Wes Stewart" wrote in message news Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs? Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Leon wrote:
"Wes Stewart" wrote in message news Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs? Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood. What's the plywood attached to? |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
I think metal studs are only designed to carry a vertical load, by attaching
the plywood , you are spreading that load out over a 4' by 8' span -- Be cool, Longshot |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... Leon wrote: "Wes Stewart" wrote in message news Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs? Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood. What's the plywood attached to? The plywood is on the back side of the front face of the stud. The screws that hold the plywood go through the steel first and then into the plywood. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:39:36 GMT, "Leon"
wrote: "Wes Stewart" wrote in message news Why? If the cabinets have backs, and are screwed to the studs, why is this less reliable than screwing a piece of plywood to the same studs? Because the studs are only about 1/16" thick. The screw could easily be pulled back out compared to being screwed in to 2 or 3" of wood. Where did this "2 or 3" of wood" suddenly come from? I was commenting on the comment that said that "plywood" would be an improvement. But this very same plywood screws into the very same studs, so I fail to see an advantage. Now if you're suggesting a 2 x 3 stud inside the metal studs for a backup "nailer" then we are on the same page. That's what I would do. Pretty much like is sometimes done for door and window openings. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
"Wes Stewart" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 17:39:36 GMT, "Leon" I was commenting on the comment that said that "plywood" would be an improvement. But this very same plywood screws into the very same studs, so I fail to see an advantage. OK, steel studs are 3 sided. Think of the letter C. The Plywood is attached behind the front face of the steel stud. The screw goes through the front face of the steel stud and then into the plywood. The screw has the thickness of the plywood to get its holding power. If the screw simply went through the steel stud it would strip and pull out of the stud. Then the cavbinet screws are screwed into the plywood. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
"longshot" wrote in message ... "Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? No, typically plywood is added between the studs & drywall for these applications At work, they add the plywood or 1x whatevers after the rock. Mark |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
www.mcfeeys.com sells cabinet hanging screws for use with steel studs
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? Brian Elfert |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Brian Elfert wrote:
I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? Brian Elfert Is the wall in the basement? If so then no - too much rust potential. I would _guess_ at the same issue in a kitchen. Others may have different opinions. ....Otherwise someone else can answer as I don't know. But if I were making the wall I would install cross bracing where I was going to place the wall and "make it work". Probably by making sure those studs had "hangers". -- Will Occasional Techno-geek |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? Brian Elfert As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to hang. Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a significant problem? Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"Teamcasa" writes:
As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to hang. Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a significant problem? Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel. I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls. Brian Elfert |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Teamcasa" writes: As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to hang. Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a significant problem? Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel. I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls. Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs would make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will go into the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds? |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
lgb wrote:
In article , says... Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs would make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will go into the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds? How about wood studs only where the cabinets need to screw in? When in doubt, Build it stout! I think steel is stronger, isn't it? when I worked Demo for a summer, the steel walls where a lot harder to tear down. just one steel stud will flex and bend etc. be get two or more secured and there very secure, could be wrong, just what I remebered |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
"Leon" writes:
Considering the weight of a semi trailer, do you think that wood studs would make a noticeable difference considering every thing else that will go into the trailer. Is 14,600 pounds going to be much worse than 14,000 pounds? I'm not sure I want to go with metal studs yet. I figured I needed to be sure I could attach my cabinets before choosing metal or wood studs. Wood studs would be less expensive but heavier. Brian Elfert |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are
a significant problem? Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel. I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls. Brian Elfert Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using smaller studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets. All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you will save a considerable amount of weight and be able to secure the cabinets using a French cleat system. (French cleat - a board ripped in half at 45 deg. One half of the cleat attached to the wall and the other mating half attached to the cabinet.) Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
"Teamcasa" writes:
Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using smaller studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I 2x2s would probably work as that is what wood framed RVs are generally built from. The only reason for thicker studs would be for insulation. They make special electrical boxes for RVs that fit in a 2x2 wall. would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets. All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you will Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets. Brian Elfert |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Brian,
I am a carpenter and was doing the exact same thing at Montreal's City Hall. We were building a new kitchen for the blue collar works and commercial code states that metal studs are to be used because of fire code. So here is what I did. Metal studs are in a shape of a U and always face the same direction. Where you plan to put your cabinets, you need to add a piece of stud about 12" long in the opposite direction. So that the 12" stud will face the 8' stud(the U's will face eachother). Since the studs are 16" on center...you can cut a piece of 3/4" plywood 12"x15-1/2". Use 3/4" drywll screws. Do not use the self-tapping kind(silver). They will just burn the wood and will spin. But since you are turning a semi to an RV...if it will be on the road, I would use 2"x6" pine instead of plywood between the studs. It's cheap and it will hold your cabinets without a glitch. Good luck, Patrick "Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Teamcasa" writes: Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using smaller studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I 2x2s would probably work as that is what wood framed RVs are generally built from. The only reason for thicker studs would be for insulation. They make special electrical boxes for RVs that fit in a 2x2 wall. would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets. All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you will Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets. Brian Elfert |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Teamcasa" writes: Brian, Very interesting project. For RV use, I would consider using smaller studs, say 2" x 2". And where loads exist for cabinets and fixtures, I 2x2s would probably work as that is what wood framed RVs are generally built from. The only reason for thicker studs would be for insulation. They make special electrical boxes for RVs that fit in a 2x2 wall. would inlay some plywood or 1" x 4"s for securing the cabinets. All screws eventually work loose in RVs. I would also consider not using drywall behind the cabinets and use 1/4" plywood instead. This way you will Someone else mentioned drywall. I didn't mention drywall and have plans to use it. 1/4" plywood covered with something is what I am planning to use. I'm not sure if 1/4" plywood will really hold up cabinets. You're thinking of drywall, and you won't use wooden studs because of the weight? This does not compute. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Awesome!
Show us some pictures when finished. Putting some wood in the studs where cabinets will be makes sense. Wilson "Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... "Teamcasa" writes: As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to hang. Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a significant problem? Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel. I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls. Brian Elfert |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:59:00 -0000, Brian Elfert
wrote: "Teamcasa" writes: As others have said, no unless plywood is added where the cabinets are to hang. Why would you want steel studs? Do you live in Hawaii where termites are a significant problem? Weight. Wood studs are much heavier than steel. I'm converting a semi trailer to an RV. I plan to use 2x3 metal studs to frame walls inside of the regular trailer walls. I can then add wiring and insulation easily. the cabinets will hang on these walls. Brian Elfert consider using plywood instead of drywall for the sheet goods over the studs. you'll save weight and add both strength and stiffness to the structure. then you can get an attachment you can count on for the cabinetry. build the cabinets as light as you can. lauan ply is light for it's strength, comes with a surface that is smooth enough for laminate but will likely need some prep before paint. |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
What we do for commercial jobs is have the GC provide 6"
wide heavy gage (gauge David) coil stock wherever we need in wall blocking. This is screwed directly to the face of the stud.. You could also use horizontal steel studs bay making screw tabs on the ends. Personally I like 2 X 6's. If your studs are 16" on center cut the 2X material to 15 7/8"(ish) and notch (dado) the face of one end to clear the break (wrap) in the steel studs. Working from the notched end face screw the 2X in place through the stud and into the face of the 2X. Screw the other end through the stud and into the end of the 2X. It's as easy as eating pie. UA100 |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Yep. Done about a zillion linear feet of blocking that way (at least
it seems that much. Blocking is _boring_ work). Not only can you drive a screw anywhere you want, but you know the screw won't pull out. And, the load is distributed along the whole wall. Also, scrap 2x or 3/4 ply is abundant in pieces 15 7/8" long. Regarding an earlier post, I think maybe the french cleat idea is maybe not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and whatnot. Hope it helps. -Phil Crow |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Larry Jaques wrote: On 24 Mar 2005 18:10:22 -0800, the inscrutable spake: not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and whatnot. Simple fix: Use upper and lower sets of cleats and affix with screws through the backs (into the bottom cleats) to hold them in place. ================================================== ====== TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications ========================== ah HAH! So _that's_ why we keep you around! g -Phil Crow |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
On 25 Mar 2005 08:14:06 -0800, the inscrutable
spake: Larry Jaques wrote: On 24 Mar 2005 18:10:22 -0800, the inscrutable spake: not so good, seeing as how the RV will be going over bumps and whatnot. Simple fix: Use upper and lower sets of cleats and affix with screws through the backs (into the bottom cleats) to hold them in place. ah HAH! So _that's_ why we keep you around! g 2nd alternative: Use french cleats upside down on the bottom row so they make dovetails, then slide on the cabinets! Send money, not praise. ================================================== ====== TANSTAAFL: There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. http://diversify.com Gourmet Web Applications ========================== |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
The short answer is No, you can't just screw to the metal studs.
They're just too thin to provide much pull-out resistance. However, with some wood blocking, this is standard construction for office and schools. Both of these environments put much greater loads and abuse on wall hung cabinets than you ever will. As one of the previous replys stated, use a reversed piece of stud and wood blocking, typically either plywood or 2X6. Cut a groove at each end on the face to fit the little lip on the studs (the part that makes it a 'C' instead of a 'U' shape) so the blocking fits up tight to the stud and doesn't distort it. Screw through the metal stud into the blocking to secure it. With plywood, screw on the face, with 2X6 you can screw through the ends. If you have a lot to do, your local lumber can mill these up by the pallet load for you. Put blocking continuously at the top and bottom of the cabinets; you and your SWMBO could both hang on them and they'll never come loose. Brian Elfert wrote: I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? Brian Elfert |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
"Brian Elfert" wrote in message ... I am building some cabinets to be hung from as yet unbuilt wall. I want to build the wall from 25 or 26 gauge steel studs (whatever they sell at Home Depot/Menards) instead of woood studs. Will screwing the cabinets into the metal studs be enough support? Brian Elfert I would add some 2x4 backing to the inside of the metal stud where the cabinets will hang. Then when you hang the cabinets the screws will go through the stud, into the 2x4's. Greg |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Best anchors for heavy cabinets on steel studs | Home Repair | |||
Earth Bondng | UK diy | |||
Building Kitchen Cabinets | Woodworking | |||
sheet metal gas engine project | Metalworking | |||
Drywall screws for metal studs prone to strip, please help. | Home Repair |