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Dust Collector in Basement With Furnace?
Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our
furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian |
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damian penney wrote:
Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then be "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't come close to collecting it... I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least w/o a collector failure like a hole). IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc... |
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Duane Bozarth wrote:
damian penney wrote: Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then be "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't come close to collecting it... I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least w/o a collector failure like a hole). IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc... I'll note that while the furnace isn't supposed to be picking up circulation air, there are always some leaks... |
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Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room
which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. |
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"damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a DC. Use the 5 micron bags and it will help. |
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote: "damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a DC. Use the 5 micron bags and it will help. Hmmm, it's sounding as though this isn't a great idea... Is there anyway to make it work? Sure would be nice to have the DC outside the shop and the basement is perfectly located. Damian |
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Duane Bozarth wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: damian penney wrote: Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then be "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't come close to collecting it... I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least w/o a collector failure like a hole). IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc... I'll note that while the furnace isn't supposed to be picking up circulation air, there are always some leaks... Hmmm, okay next question, how do DC's deal with being outside in the rain |
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damian penney wrote:
Edwin Pawlowski wrote: "damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a DC. Use the 5 micron bags and it will help. Hmmm, it's sounding as though this isn't a great idea... Is there anyway to make it work? Sure would be nice to have the DC outside the shop and the basement is perfectly located. Best bet is to build a closet to hold it--contains dust and minimizes noise as well... |
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damian penney wrote:
Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. See my addendum to my previous post where I anticipated you... |
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damian penney wrote:
Duane Bozarth wrote: Duane Bozarth wrote: damian penney wrote: Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Even more of a pita will be the micro-dust that escapes will then be "right there" to be blown all over the house--furnace filters won't come close to collecting it... I doubt you would have enough to be a combustion issue (at least w/o a collector failure like a hole). IMO, YMMV, $0.02, etc... I'll note that while the furnace isn't supposed to be picking up circulation air, there are always some leaks... Hmmm, okay next question, how do DC's deal with being outside in the rain They don't. But you could combine two of your posts, build an enclosure outside. A parishioner of mine is doing exactly that. His HF 16CFM (advertised) will actually have about 1200 CFM throughput and no costly filter bags, just the 30 micron bag that comes with it. Deb Deb |
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Duane Bozarth wrote: damian penney wrote: Edwin Pawlowski wrote: "damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. The dust tends to permeate everything over time, with or without a DC. Use the 5 micron bags and it will help. Hmmm, it's sounding as though this isn't a great idea... Is there anyway to make it work? Sure would be nice to have the DC outside the shop and the basement is perfectly located. Best bet is to build a closet to hold it--contains dust and minimizes noise as well... How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input here guys. Damian |
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"damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian Remember, A DC will add positive air pressure to an enclosed basement. Your furnace should only be using outside air for combustion so the dust *should* not be an issue. I would build an enclosure for it in the basement, vent the enclosure to the outside with a 12" tube. This should solve the positive air problem and vent most of the fine duct particles. You might consider putting a cyclone outside so that empting the sawdust is not a big issue as well. Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
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Teamcasa wrote: "damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian Remember, A DC will add positive air pressure to an enclosed basement. Your furnace should only be using outside air for combustion so the dust *should* not be an issue. I would build an enclosure for it in the basement, vent the enclosure to the outside with a 12" tube. This should solve the positive air problem and vent most of the fine duct particles. You might consider putting a cyclone outside so that empting the sawdust is not a big issue as well. Dave Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com Okay, that sounds like a plan. Thanks everyone. |
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damian penney wrote:
.... How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input here guys. Would depend on the relative sizes of the DC and the enclosure...ideally, an exterior vent would be the best route for inside a dwelling...Otherwise, you do still have a potential problem w/ capturing the fines. |
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This is not a good idea. A DC is best in a far corner of the room. I
walled off the "utility" area in the basement and installed a pre-hung exterior door to get a good seal. Dust buildup in a furnace is not good, plus this is a way to spread the dust to upper floors. On 7 Mar 2005 07:17:43 -0800, "damian penney" wrote: Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian |
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One of my jobs in life is helping design clean rooms. If you put the
DC outside - say a 1200 CFM jobby - and your wood shop is in the basement - you will create a partial vacuum in the basement sucking a lot of air down the chimney - would probably extinguish any open cycle gas furnace or water heater - worst if it did not extinguish the flame - would have build up of at least CO2 and maybe CO. If you put it in a closet in the basement - air still must come out of the closet and it will have particles in the air. Guess you could put a bunch of HEPA filters in one of the walls and catch the vast majority of the fines. All of life is a trade off - if you use some of the finer mesh bags it probably will not be a problem - unless you are one heck of a wood butcher. |
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Of course, if you vent it outside, you're heating or cooling all that air
that you need to bring back inside to replace the 1200cfm... Could get a little pricy. Clint "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... damian penney wrote: ... How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input here guys. Would depend on the relative sizes of the DC and the enclosure...ideally, an exterior vent would be the best route for inside a dwelling...Otherwise, you do still have a potential problem w/ capturing the fines. |
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There seems to be confusion in many of the replies about where air comes
from and goes. The air being heated and circulated comes through the furnace ducting, and may or may not include air from/to the basement. In the case of my furnace, combustion air comes from the room the furnace is in, and is vented to a chimney when it leaves, taking combustion products with it. Combustion air does not circulate through the house unless you have a leak. If that happens, you will smell it and should get it fixed asap. I ran a dust collector in the same basement room as the furnace for years, with no problems. I did have the dust collector as far from the furnace as possible. I also had an air cleaner with 3 levels of filtering; the initial furnace filter was the only one that ever had to be cleaned or replaced. Good luck, Steve "damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian |
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Clint wrote: Of course, if you vent it outside, you're heating or cooling all that air that you need to bring back inside to replace the 1200cfm... Could get a little pricy. Clint "Duane Bozarth" wrote in message ... damian penney wrote: ... How would the DC deal with being in an enclosed area, would I just vent the closet outside or wouldn't that be needed? Thanks for all the input here guys. Would depend on the relative sizes of the DC and the enclosure...ideally, an exterior vent would be the best route for inside a dwelling...Otherwise, you do still have a potential problem w/ capturing the fines. Well I live in Oakland, California and the shop is in an unheated garage whose door is wide open when I'm in the shop so heating isn't an issue. |
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Steven and Gail Peterson wrote: There seems to be confusion in many of the replies about where air comes from and goes. The air being heated and circulated comes through the furnace ducting, and may or may not include air from/to the basement. In the case of my furnace, combustion air comes from the room the furnace is in, and is vented to a chimney when it leaves, taking combustion products with it. Combustion air does not circulate through the house unless you have a leak. If that happens, you will smell it and should get it fixed asap. I ran a dust collector in the same basement room as the furnace for years, with no problems. I did have the dust collector as far from the furnace as possible. I also had an air cleaner with 3 levels of filtering; the initial furnace filter was the only one that ever had to be cleaned or replaced. Good luck, Steve "damian penney" wrote in message oups.com... Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian Duane said that even with the air being drawn from elsewhere there are inevitably leaks in the ductwork. Our furnace operates like you said, air drawn from the house into the furnace with the furnace being vented by a chimney. I think the setup will be the DC in the basement with the furnace inside a closet that is vented outside. Damian |
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I don't foresee a problem. My DC is within 10' of my furnace in the
basement. I do keep a cover over the filter slot just in case. Hope this helps. Joe damian penney wrote: Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. Damian |
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damian penney wrote: Would it be a horrible idea to place a dust collector next to our furnace? I know that small dust particles are highly combustible but not sure if the furnace is sealed enough or if a DC is clean enough for this not to be a worry. The furnace is in a basement area under the house which is well ventilated. The exhaust from the DC should be clean enough to not worry about an explosion hazard unless you shake a lot of dust into the air when you are emptying it. Over the years folks here on rec.WW have done the arithmetic and shown that normal woodworking operations, dust collection and so on do not generate dust fast enough to create an explosive atmosphere under steady state conditions. However if dust accumulates somewhere and then lets go all at once the assumption of steady state conditions is violated and the concentration fo air could momentarily reach the lower inflammible limit--the whumphf threshold. -- FF |
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Steven and Gail Peterson wrote: ... Combustion air does not circulate through the house unless you have a leak. ... Or a flueless gas furnace. -- FF |
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on 3/7/2005 9:40 AM damian penney said the following:
Well the air for the furnace is being sucked in from the living room which is above the basement so it wouldn't be drawing the dusty air from the basement. Whoa! Apples and oranges. First, the air being heated, IF (and I stress this since the OP did not say he had forced air heat) it's a forced air system is essentially a closed system relative to the firebox. The air drawn in by the cold air return is reheated and recirculated in the plenum which is separate and apart from the the combusion ongoing with a gas or oil-fired furnace. The air for combustion will be drawn in from either the immediate area of the furnace or, in the case of newer furnaces, from the outside. The exhaust will go outside. In the case of the latter, there's probably little chance of there being a problem with the DC other than - as someone else posted - some of the dust being sucked in to the cold air return (if there happens to be one in the area of the furnace and spread all over SWMBO's domain. Bad ju-ju for sure. If it's hydronic heat there's no problem with the furnace circulating dust but the cautions about the dust being ignited by the combustion process still apply dependent upon the type of the system. I'm guessing but unless there was a helluva lot of dust in the air I don't think it would be a fire safety problem. If he hasn't been "launched" yet, I doubt adding dust collector to the mix would increase his odds; likely they'd decrease since, after all, the dust is already present in all its various sizes. Add the DC and all you have left is the very smallest amounts. |
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on 3/7/2005 1:19 PM Clint said the following:
Of course, if you vent it outside, you're heating or cooling all that air that you need to bring back inside to replace the 1200cfm... Could get a little pricy. I'm considering a DC for my shop but not that keen about a) putting the DC IN the shop and b) now that the shop is heated I really don't want to heat the great outdoors. I'm thinking along the lines of either a "chase" built onto the back of the garage or a closet built into existing space inside the garage (shop is a separate insulated 13x24 room with 2½ car garage under the same roof) which would be insulated and have one or more vents leading right back into the shop thus venting the "clean" exhaust from the DC right back into the shop. Insulated door to the outside to allow for emptying the DC. I'm thinking a couple of regular furnace filters snapped into frames that would sit between the stud wall which would be opened up and fire-stopped to allow for the flow of air. Not 100% but better than anything else I can think of at the moment. Anyone else tried this or have a better suggestion? Like anyone else, I just don't want to tie up any floor space in the shop with a DC when it could better be used for bench or tool space. |
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Please do not overlook the information about pressures pointed out by
Butch. The DC creates a negative pressure to collect the dust from your saw or planer or whatever. If the DC is in the same area as the furnace or water heater, you need to restore the exit air from that DC back into the room to equalize the pressure. If you vent the exit air to the outside, you effectively keep a negative pressure in the shop anytime the DC runs. If the furnace is on at the same time, flue gases can be sucked back down the chimney rather than going their normal flow and therefore cause you extreme danger for CO poisoning. DCs can be vented outside in climates where no furnace is needed or where the furnace is in some other part of the house. Rocky |
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"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message If it's hydronic heat there's no problem with the furnace circulating dust but the cautions about the dust being ignited by the combustion process still apply dependent upon the type of the system. Just a point of information. Hydronic systems have boilers (even though the water may not actually boil) and hot air heaters are referred to as furnaces. |
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Rocky wrote: Please do not overlook the information about pressures pointed out by Butch. The DC creates a negative pressure to collect the dust from your saw or planer or whatever. If the DC is in the same area as the furnace or water heater, you need to restore the exit air from that DC back into the room to equalize the pressure. If you vent the exit air to the outside, you effectively keep a negative pressure in the shop anytime the DC runs. If the furnace is on at the same time, flue gases can be sucked back down the chimney rather than going their normal flow and therefore cause you extreme danger for CO poisoning. DCs can be vented outside in climates where no furnace is needed or where the furnace is in some other part of the house. Rocky I don't think this is an issue, I may not be understanding it correctly though. The setup is an unheated garage/workshop where the door is always open when I'm working. The furnace is in an adjacent area that extends all the way under the house which is very well ventilated. So the shop would be at negative pressure because that's where the air is being sucked from but that is wide open, and the DC would be vented outside relieving the positive pressure the unit itself would generate. I am right here ? |
#30
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I don't think this is an issue, I may not be understanding it correctly though. The setup is an unheated garage/workshop where the door is always open when I'm working. The furnace is in an adjacent area that extends all the way under the house which is very well ventilated. So the shop would be at negative pressure because that's where the air is being sucked from but that is wide open, and the DC would be vented outside relieving the positive pressure the unit itself would generate. I am right here ? In the sitution you describe, I think you'd be OK. Rocku |
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