Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to get
me to do it.

I have a little experience in residential trimwork and quite a bit of
experience in furniture, jewelry boxes, and general woodworking. So I'm
wondering if any of you good people have similar experiences, what works for
you, what resources are out there, etc. I found some useful information
doing a Google but thought I'd check here too.

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows and he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

Anyway, any ideas / input is welcome.

Thanks

Will

You have to putup a website and produce pieces which are original so no
one can compare with cheap imports. A simple site and no woody
backgrounds, such an old look, white space is good. Hardly bother with
fairs now and i get paid up front.

Will:

First off, sorry to hear about losing your job - not a lot of fun.

Secondly, as to your ideas - I would do some soul searching
and also some research. The soul searching is that you
will have to figure out how much money you want to make
out of woodworking. Then throw in, cost for supplies, tools,
tool maintenace, cost of marketing (going to fairs, etc.) A lot
of questions to ask yourself - what happens when you
get sick for a week or two? What happens, God forbide, you
have an accident and are out for several weeks? What about
vacation time with your family - when will you want to do
that? Also be aware that your local municipality might have
some "restrictions" as to the types of home businesses
can be operated out of your home. If you're running your
table saw, joiner, planer a lot, will neighbors complain?
Then there are the insurance questions - will your homeowner's
cover you in case of an accident or disaster - fire comes to
mind, if you're making a commercial product in your home?

Then the research questions might be - what will sell, at what
price, who will want to buy your item, where do they shop for
similar things, and who might be a competitor? (not always
that obvious).

I have a friend who left a very good high-tech job do take
up painting. She already had the talent and was just doing
something she found enjoyable. People noticed and offered
her good money for the work and a new career was born.
She did all of the "high end" art/wine festivals in our area -
in all of the "upper neighborhoods". She then found out that
she could then just work with interior designers and also
started to notice people wanted to collect her work. So she
changed her marketing and continues this day in being
a success. Took a lot of work - no family to support - and
just understanding her art was her meal ticket - not
her soul.

I'd would hook up with the local Chamber of Commerce and
see if they have classes on starting a small business or
marketing. Also see if there is a woodworker's guild or club
nearby. They can be a valuable resource.

I'm looking into doing something similar for myself and these
are things I am doing/thinking about. Right now my shop is
NOT ready for any work, but I'm making it a priority.

Good luck and keep us abreast of your success!

MJ Wallace

WCH:

Better think about how much you want to make... People usually forget
about that -- some examples of how you might approach it.

Let's suppose you want to make $4000 a month -- Before taxes. What
should your revenue be?

Hint (Assuming $3800 a month in material and expenses you should be
billing at least $7600 at 50% profit margin..

If you want to work at 30% profit margin here's what happens...
$4000 / (1 - 0.7) = $13,333 {30% of this number is about $4000.}

So make sure your work is good enough to charge high rates and you can
use the three times table for your time... :-)

Look at this another way... If you have a profit margin of 70% The a
billing of about $6000 gives you about $4200 in income (70% of $6000).
It's easier to make money this way obviously - but the utility, quality,
and uniqueness must appeal to people with money to pay.


Assume your Costs are something like...
Some of the numbers are guess work... of course.

Biggest mistake BTW is that people assume that Marketing plans start
with Positive Revenue. Assume $0 in sales for a while and see how long
your cash horde will last.

But we will allow you one sale the first month for the exercise...

Cost of running small shop (Heat, power, water) $100
Phone bill $100 a month
Cost of tools amortized over a reasonable period $300 month (???)
Vehicle Costs $400 /Month (Or delivery and Taxi costs)
Rent? Naw -- use the garage - like me - So $0 for now.

Call it $1000 (General Expense) a month for now. We'll leave out
accountants lawyers and the other hangers on. :-)

Let's say you sell one project and the materials cost (wood, finish,
sand paper, a new gizmo only for this job) is $1000 and it takes 40
hours work over two weeks. Since you do have to wait for the paint to
dry...

Ok what profit margin do you want? I recommend the 2 times table (at the
least) to start thinking about it... That's 50% profit margin - not
counting labour. Assume that you would pay someone to do the work - and
you just sell. $20/hr. X 40 = $800. So you should charge about 2 X
$1800. Is your work worth that much? Are the customers available.

Increase or decrease numbers and profit margins as you like - but start
thinking about what you have to charge versus the value of what you
produce to earn the income that you want.

Note that in the following example your first month's income would be...

Expenses $1000 (Gen. exp) + $1000 Materials + $800 for the mythical worker.

That Leaves $3600 - $2800 = $800

Even if we forget the worker that still leaves just $1600 for that one
good sale a month? Happy with that? If not play some more and try to
find a combination of things that you can do that will meet the revenue
objectives.


wch wrote:
Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to get
me to do it.

I have a little experience in residential trimwork and quite a bit of
experience in furniture, jewelry boxes, and general woodworking. So I'm
wondering if any of you good people have similar experiences, what works for
you, what resources are out there, etc. I found some useful information
doing a Google but thought I'd check here too.

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows and he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

Anyway, any ideas / input is welcome.

Thanks

Will



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Wed, Feb 9, 2005, 9:50am (EST-3) (wch) says:
snip I don't see making it building doll furniture and selling it for
$3. snip

Hey, if you can make it fast enough and it will sell... Make 10
pieces an hour, that's $30 an hour. Not a fortune, but nothing to be
sneezed at either. Look at it as cash coming in, which at this point is
your first concern. It would be a start.

You're gonna get all sors of advice about % markup, what to charge,
and all that. Priority one for me, would be make enough per month to
pay all your bills, keep you fed, and pay for materials. Way I figure,
starting out, anything over that would be gravy. I really woudn't give
a rats ass about what i "want to make", untill I was in a positon it
could actually happen. You've got to figure out what you can make that
will actually sell, and go from there. What will sell one place, may
not sell 20 miles down the road, it's not a science.



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't
see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago
I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be
something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows and
he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me
started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

You have the basics, do you have the skills? By that, I mean not just the
ability to make a nice piece of customer furniture, but be able to make it
fast enough to make a living at it.

The Smith family wants a coffee table. They have a design in mind and want
to get a price. They get a price of $900 from the guy across town. They
visit your shop and you tell them $1000 and they like you and are very
interested. They seem to like you more than the guy across town and are
willing to pay the extra $100. People looking for quality, don't quibble
over that much money so you get the job.

The guy across town has made many similar items and he buys $300 in wood and
material and finished the job in 15 hours and makes a living. You do the
same quality of work but it takes you 60 hours to complete. Your competitor
buys his wife a nice Valentines gift after the payment, you buy a can of
beans just to survive.

J T wrote:

Wed, Feb 9, 2005, 9:50am (EST-3) (wch) says:
snip I don't see making it building doll furniture and selling it for
$3. snip

Hey, if you can make it fast enough and it will sell...
....

Yeah, there was an article in FWW a while back about a fella' making
nothing but bookmarks by all hand work and doing pretty well at it. Of
course, he's making thousands/month, every month. Most of his output
was going to Lands End, I believe it was...

For your best research, visit with interior decorators. I had a custom
woodworking business for 8 years. All my best work always came from interior
decorators. They can presell your skills and abilities to the customer
before you show up for the first visit. They will want a referral fee, bit
it sure was worth it. A custom woodworker has to sell himself before he
sells his work. You have to convince the customer that you are up to the
task, and then they must trust you to give you a downpayment to start the
work. Nothing like word of mouth to sell your work as well. I don't know how
many times the little touches helped sell the next job. When I installed
anything, the vacuum cleaner was the last tool to be used.

My last suggestions, have a wife with insurance and a steady job. You'll
need it. Also have a good credit card, you'll need that for groceries while
you wait for the big payoff check at the end of the job.

Rich
"wch" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in
north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to
get
me to do it.

I have a little experience in residential trimwork and quite a bit of
experience in furniture, jewelry boxes, and general woodworking. So I'm
wondering if any of you good people have similar experiences, what works
for
you, what resources are out there, etc. I found some useful information
doing a Google but thought I'd check here too.

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't
see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be
something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows and
he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me
started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

Anyway, any ideas / input is welcome.

Thanks

Will

Woodworking business are a dime a dozen. Plenty of crap and a little fine
quality. Quality means high markup. You need a niche where hopefully there
is no competition. I have found that niche in the Dallas area in doing
custom and architectural turning. I am the only one in the Dallas area that
wants SMALL JOBS ONLY! 99% of my work in commercial and all is COD and 25%
up front if materials exceed $300. You need to plan on at least 3 years to
get business established and developed the skills necessary. I thought I
was a good turner when I started but learned a lot fast once I went
commercial. If you are willing to commit 3 years as a part time let me know
and we can talk and I will give you more details.

--
Art Ransom
Lancaster , Texas

www.turningaround.org

Hi Dzine,
I guess my experience is quite different than yours when it comes to the
success of a web site to sell product. We get a fair number of hits (we pay
goggle) but almost no business from hits on the site alone. We would be
dead in the water if we relied on the web for business. However, when a
client has been referred it does add an air of legitimacy to the
enterprise. So IMHO, a site is good to have but not enough to allow you to
survive. Cheers, JG

dzine wrote:

You have to putup a website and produce pieces which are original so no
one can compare with cheap imports. A simple site and no woody
backgrounds, such an old look, white space is good. Hardly bother with
fairs now and i get paid up front.

Hi Rich,
What type - % or flat fee do your decorators expect? Thanks, JG

Rich Coers wrote:

For your best research, visit with interior decorators. I had a custom
woodworking business for 8 years. All my best work always came from interior
decorators. They can presell your skills and abilities to the customer
before you show up for the first visit. They will want a referral fee, bit
it sure was worth it. A custom woodworker has to sell himself before he
sells his work. You have to convince the customer that you are up to the
task, and then they must trust you to give you a downpayment to start the
work. Nothing like word of mouth to sell your work as well. I don't know how
many times the little touches helped sell the next job. When I installed
anything, the vacuum cleaner was the last tool to be used.

My last suggestions, have a wife with insurance and a steady job. You'll
need it. Also have a good credit card, you'll need that for groceries while
you wait for the big payoff check at the end of the job.

Rich
"wch" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in
north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to
get
me to do it.

I have a little experience in residential trimwork and quite a bit of
experience in furniture, jewelry boxes, and general woodworking. So I'm
wondering if any of you good people have similar experiences, what works
for
you, what resources are out there, etc. I found some useful information
doing a Google but thought I'd check here too.

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't
see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be
something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows and
he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me
started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

Anyway, any ideas / input is welcome.

Thanks

Will

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

The Smith family wants a coffee table.

Is this the same Smith family that flew to the Bahamas in the movie "Big
Trouble"?

Barry

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:50:06 -0800, "wch" wrote:

Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to get
me to do it.

snip

Will... not wanting to rain on your parade, but I think this is important..

Do you have business skills?
Can you do books, balance budgets & checkbooks, do promotional work, deal with
clients, (ie People Person) and survive on a commission only income?

Self employed folks wear many hats.. and like me, not all of us wear each well..
*g*

IMHO, sales and promotion are 70% of the business, no matter what you make...
your product is YOU...
Why should someone spend 3 or 4 times as much for a piece of furniture from you
as they do at a big discount store? Because you've convinced them that you're a
good value..

Bottom line, before I fall off my soap box, is that the business end is very
important... and it's not fun to be busy all year and find out that instead of
making a profit, you were losing money on each project.. YMMV



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Mac,

Thanks for the input. Yes I've thought about those things. Without
marketing, a business is nothing. As far as the business end of it, I have
a couple things working for me. One, I have 14 years computer experience
and knowledge of a lot of programs to assist in bookkeeping, etc. Two, I
have a great wife that's very discliplined with money (she's German by the
way) and is beside me on this. We both know that it will be tough for
awhile but we're willing to endure.

Thanks again,

Will


Will... not wanting to rain on your parade, but I think this is
important..

Do you have business skills?
Can you do books, balance budgets & checkbooks, do promotional work, deal
with
clients, (ie People Person) and survive on a commission only income?

Self employed folks wear many hats.. and like me, not all of us wear each
well..
*g*

IMHO, sales and promotion are 70% of the business, no matter what you
make...
your product is YOU...
Why should someone spend 3 or 4 times as much for a piece of furniture
from you
as they do at a big discount store? Because you've convinced them that
you're a
good value..

Bottom line, before I fall off my soap box, is that the business end is
very
important... and it's not fun to be busy all year and find out that
instead of
making a profit, you were losing money on each project.. YMMV



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

MJ,

Thanks for all the info... a lot to review there. Great idea on the chamber
of commerce thing, I'll check that out right away.

Will

wrote in message
oups.com...
Will:

First off, sorry to hear about losing your job - not a lot of fun.

Secondly, as to your ideas - I would do some soul searching
and also some research. The soul searching is that you
will have to figure out how much money you want to make
out of woodworking. Then throw in, cost for supplies, tools,
tool maintenace, cost of marketing (going to fairs, etc.) A lot
of questions to ask yourself - what happens when you
get sick for a week or two? What happens, God forbide, you
have an accident and are out for several weeks? What about
vacation time with your family - when will you want to do
that? Also be aware that your local municipality might have
some "restrictions" as to the types of home businesses
can be operated out of your home. If you're running your
table saw, joiner, planer a lot, will neighbors complain?
Then there are the insurance questions - will your homeowner's
cover you in case of an accident or disaster - fire comes to
mind, if you're making a commercial product in your home?

Then the research questions might be - what will sell, at what
price, who will want to buy your item, where do they shop for
similar things, and who might be a competitor? (not always
that obvious).

I have a friend who left a very good high-tech job do take
up painting. She already had the talent and was just doing
something she found enjoyable. People noticed and offered
her good money for the work and a new career was born.
She did all of the "high end" art/wine festivals in our area -
in all of the "upper neighborhoods". She then found out that
she could then just work with interior designers and also
started to notice people wanted to collect her work. So she
changed her marketing and continues this day in being
a success. Took a lot of work - no family to support - and
just understanding her art was her meal ticket - not
her soul.

I'd would hook up with the local Chamber of Commerce and
see if they have classes on starting a small business or
marketing. Also see if there is a woodworker's guild or club
nearby. They can be a valuable resource.

I'm looking into doing something similar for myself and these
are things I am doing/thinking about. Right now my shop is
NOT ready for any work, but I'm making it a priority.

Good luck and keep us abreast of your success!

MJ Wallace

Thanks for the reply... I am not at a point where I really care about what I
*want* to make... it's what I need to make to make a living. Sure, I have
my preferences like jewelry boxes but without a market, they're just
knick-knacks on my shelf. I'm not looking to get rich (yet) just pay the
bills, feed the kids, etc.

Thanks again,

Will

Hey, if you can make it fast enough and it will sell... Make 10
pieces an hour, that's $30 an hour. Not a fortune, but nothing to be
sneezed at either. Look at it as cash coming in, which at this point is
your first concern. It would be a start.

You're gonna get all sors of advice about % markup, what to charge,
and all that. Priority one for me, would be make enough per month to
pay all your bills, keep you fed, and pay for materials. Way I figure,
starting out, anything over that would be gravy. I really woudn't give
a rats ass about what i "want to make", untill I was in a positon it
could actually happen. You've got to figure out what you can make that
will actually sell, and go from there. What will sell one place, may
not sell 20 miles down the road, it's not a science.



JOAT
Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong.
- David Fasold

Good advice on the interior decorator thing, considering that custom
furniture is one of my possible avenues. On the last part, I have a wife
who just quit her job to be a stay at home mom. So we have our challenges
ahead of us.

thanks,

Will

For your best research, visit with interior decorators. I had a custom
woodworking business for 8 years. All my best work always came from
interior
decorators. They can presell your skills and abilities to the customer
before you show up for the first visit. They will want a referral fee, bit
it sure was worth it. A custom woodworker has to sell himself before he
sells his work. You have to convince the customer that you are up to the
task, and then they must trust you to give you a downpayment to start the
work. Nothing like word of mouth to sell your work as well. I don't know
how
many times the little touches helped sell the next job. When I installed
anything, the vacuum cleaner was the last tool to be used.

My last suggestions, have a wife with insurance and a steady job. You'll
need it. Also have a good credit card, you'll need that for groceries
while
you wait for the big payoff check at the end of the job.

Rich
"wch" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in
north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to
get
me to do it.

I have a little experience in residential trimwork and quite a bit of
experience in furniture, jewelry boxes, and general woodworking. So I'm
wondering if any of you good people have similar experiences, what works
for
you, what resources are out there, etc. I found some useful information
doing a Google but thought I'd check here too.

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't
see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago
I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be
something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows
and
he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me
started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

Anyway, any ideas / input is welcome.

Thanks

Will

If you have cabinet and trim experience you might consider mixing
construction trim work with your furniture business. Of course it would
depend on the construction activity in your area of the country.

I am always amazed at how much kitchen cabinets go for and so I usually
wind up making my own.

RonT

Actually here in North Idaho, construction is exploding. A friend of mine
had a house built and moved into it 5 months ago. A couple weeks ago he
lost his job so last Friday, he put the house on the market. Monday, he got
full offer... at a frickin $40,000 profit!!! If I'm doing the math right,
that's $8grand a month just since he moved into it. There's an 8 month
waiting list to build a house in most of the new developments here. I've
thought about doing trim and will probably go that way... just gotta get my
tax refund so I can get a compressor, nail gun, etc. to do it with.

"Ron Truitt" wrote in message
...
If you have cabinet and trim experience you might consider mixing
construction trim work with your furniture business. Of course it would
depend on the construction activity in your area of the country.

I am always amazed at how much kitchen cabinets go for and so I usually
wind up making my own.

RonT

Sorry to hear that you lost your job. When one door closes another often opens.

I too am in Idaho, but in the Boise area where the new home market is also skyrocketing. Have you given any thought of producing semi-custom architectural work for builders? Specifically, I'm thinking along the lines of mantles, square fluted columns and custom entryways. Repeat customers are great; if you are selling to builders, and you are able to establish a sufficient customer base, then you will actually have time to produce product, and won't have to be totally consumed with the sales end.

At least in my part of Idaho, some builders will have their finish carpenter build mantles, while others use a sub-contractor. For the house we are building right now, it would have cost $350 if our builder's sub supplied our mantle. I saw several that he built and they left a lot to be desired. I built a great paint-grade mantle for about $60 in materials/supplies and 6 hours labor. If one was building a number of mantles, you could probably cut this time by a third by standardizing custruction of certain pieces, building multiple pieces at once, and making jigs for other parts (like square fluted columns and radiused pieces).

Builders are going to be paying someone for mantles and interior colums - if you can provide a high quality product at a decent rate, this could be a market niche for you. It sounds like you are already tooled up for these type of projects.

I haven't built mantles for builders, but I have built a number of mantles and interior columns on the side for private homeowners. At least with paint-grade, I always made good money. I tended to stay away from real wood/veneer because of the extra time and material costs - the market I was hitting was on the cheap side, and I let myself get burned on an oak mantle once (let's just say I would have made more $ per hour flipping burgers at McDonalds). And with paint grade, some spackle and a coat of primer will hide a host of sins and produce a great looking product.

Marketing shouldn't be too difficult either - you'd probably need to make up some samples and have decent photos of them taken, then start knocking on doors. If you could get hooked up with a builder who produces a hundred homes or more a year, then pick up some smaller clients, you could be setting in a good position. From the description of your area, I'm going to assume that you are in the Coeur d'Alene area - if this is the case, you're in a great market for growth.

Anyway, I just ran some really basic numbers in Excel looking at mantles. For the knitpickers, this brief estimated doesn't include expenses like power, heat, water, gas, insurance, marketing, phone, yada yada yada:

Units Sold Monthly, 15
Hours Per Unit, 6
Unit Sales Price, $300
Unit Material/Supply Cost, $75
Hourly Labor Rate, $30

Cost Per Unit, $255 (includes labor/materials)
Profit Per Unit, $45

Monthly Wages, $2700
Monthly Profit, $675

Monthly Pre-Tax Gross Earnings, $3375
Annual Pre-Tax Gross Earnings, $40500


Good luck and keep us posted on how things progress for you,

Scott

Something to consider doing is building kitchen cabinets if you have the
abilities to do it. You will need to contact the builders and contractors in
the area and sell yourself to them but I would think there'd be more demand
for that than furnature as far as steady support for your family and needs
to tide things over until on your feet with a buisness venture.
CC


"wch" wrote in message
news
Hi,

I lost my job yesterday working at a company that builds furniture in
north
Idaho. I'd been contemplating starting my own woodworking business for
quite some time anyway so this was kinda the final kick in the pants to
get
me to do it.

I have a little experience in residential trimwork and quite a bit of
experience in furniture, jewelry boxes, and general woodworking. So I'm
wondering if any of you good people have similar experiences, what works
for
you, what resources are out there, etc. I found some useful information
doing a Google but thought I'd check here too.

I've looked on ebay to see what kind of furniture is selling and I don't
see
making it building doll furniture and selling it for $3. Many years ago I
tried the craft show route without much success but that might be
something
to try again. I have a friend who does greeting cards at craft shows and
he
said I could give him items to sell on consignment.

I know there are risks here financially but I'm in a position that it's
something I have to do. I have enough tools and equipment to get me
started
and a garage for a workshop so I have the basics.

Anyway, any ideas / input is welcome.

Thanks

Will

I've considered cabinets but right now they're a dime a gross up here.
Plus, working out of a 2car garage, I don't have a lotta room. The
architectural millwork and mantles that another person suggested is a good
possibility for my situation.

Thanks for the suggestion

Will

Something to consider doing is building kitchen cabinets if you have the
abilities to do it. You will need to contact the builders and contractors
in
the area and sell yourself to them but I would think there'd be more
demand
for that than furnature as far as steady support for your family and needs
to tide things over until on your feet with a buisness venture.
CC

Well thought out answer. Most people miss many of these points when
starting out. Been guilty myself - in other businesses.

makesawdust wrote:
Sorry to hear that you lost your job. When one door closes another
often opens.

I too am in Idaho, but in the Boise area where the new home market is
also skyrocketing. Have you given any thought of producing semi-custom
architectural work for builders? Specifically, I'm thinking along the
lines of mantles, square fluted columns and custom entryways. Repeat
customers are great; if you are selling to builders, and you are able
to establish a sufficient customer base, then you will actually have
time to produce product, and won't have to be totally consumed with the
sales end.

That last point is _really_ important. Most of us ignore the cost of
selling and forget how much cheaper it is to sell over-and-over to the
same client.


At least in my part of Idaho, some builders will have their finish
carpenter build mantles, while others use a sub-contractor. For the
house we are building right now, it would have cost $350 if our
builder's sub supplied our mantle. I saw several that he built and
they left a lot to be desired. I built a great paint-grade mantle for
about $60 in materials/supplies and 6 hours labor. If one was building
a number of mantles, you could probably cut this time by a third by
standardizing custruction of certain pieces, building multiple pieces
at once, and making jigs for other parts (like square fluted columns
and radiused pieces).


Again automation of basic steps and repeatable performance. Many
businesses ignore this - it's costly to ignore this.

Builders are going to be paying someone for mantles and interior colums
- if you can provide a high quality product at a decent rate, this could
be a market niche for you. It sounds like you are already tooled up for
these type of projects.

I haven't built mantles for builders, but I have built a number of
mantles and interior columns on the side for private homeowners. At
least with paint-grade, I always made good money. I tended to stay
away from real wood/veneer because of the extra time and material costs
- the market I was hitting was on the cheap side, and I let myself get
burned on an oak mantle once (let's just say I would have made more $
per hour flipping burgers at McDonalds). And with paint grade, some
spackle and a coat of primer will hide a host of sins and produce a
great looking product.


Again good analysis - even if you are looking at something else - apply
the lessons here. i.e. once you tool up and develop methods to do things
a certain way - moving off center can be costly.

Marketing shouldn't be too difficult either - you'd probably need to
make up some samples and have decent photos of them taken, then start
knocking on doors. If you could get hooked up with a builder who
produces a hundred homes or more a year, then pick up some smaller
clients, you could be setting in a good position. From the description
of your area, I'm going to assume that you are in the Coeur d'Alene area
- if this is the case, you're in a great market for growth.


Don't confuse Marketing and sales - this fellow doesn't: Marketing is
the art of having what you can get rid of. Sales is the art of getting
rid of what you have.

Anyway, I just ran some really basic numbers in Excel looking at
mantles. For the knitpickers, this brief estimated doesn't include
expenses like power, heat, water, gas, insurance, marketing, phone,
yada yada yada:

Units Sold Monthly, 15
Hours Per Unit, 6
Unit Sales Price, $300
Unit Material/Supply Cost, $75
Hourly Labor Rate, $30

Cost Per Unit, $255 (includes labor/materials)
Profit Per Unit, $45

Monthly Wages, $2700
Monthly Profit, $675

Monthly Pre-Tax Gross Earnings, $3375
Annual Pre-Tax Gross Earnings, $40500


Good luck and keep us posted on how things progress for you,


Scott:

You sure know your stuff. Maybe you should be a business consultant...
Or are you?

If anyone is having a bad time of it - they should read your post. Think
for a few days -- while they work -- or not -- then re-read it.



Scott



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

Hi Will,

Thanks for your kind remarks. I worked in upper management (I recently resigned from my job, and am now in-between positions), but built cabinents when I was in my early 20's. I'm actually considering doing something like this on a part-time basis myself after my new woodshop is set up. We have younger children, so I appreciate the benefits of stable income and solid benefits, but it would be great if I could do this to finance my tool habit and maybe put a little extra in the bank, too.

In my community, there are several high-growth areas where the average new home prices are $277k to $333k, with a total of 9000 housing starts expected in the Treasure Valley in 2005. In this price range I believe that there is an expectation by the customer for a certain level of quality beyond what a typical finish carpenter can provide with onsite construction; but this price range doesn't really accomodate true custom touches. We're building a new house right now that will be worth about $350k when finished, and I learned first hand that to stay withing $100 to $115 per square foot price range in our area, you either have to do the custom work yourself, go without it, or plan on spending a lot more money. This fact, coupled with the work I have seen from local finish carpenters, is basically where the idea of semi-custom upgrades that are reasonably priced came from. By no means do I make this comment to deride the work of the finish carpenters I have seen (I spent two years looking at houses/builders before we broke ground). They do a good job, but there are limits on what can be produced on a job site, and they need to work fast if they want to earn a decent wage.

My first "sales-pitch" will probably be the contractor with whom we are working on our new home; I only want to build 4 or 5 mantles a month, so if I can land just two or three smaller contractors for customers, I'll be set. I think that when he sees the mantle that I built for our home, he'll be sold.

Additionally, I thought that by standardizing general sizes (basing everything on a 36" wide gas fireplace, which is pretty standard), I could prepare a "design form" that a builder could give to his customers; the builder would then fax the completed form to me. The form would allow the customer to chose from three mantle shelves (tops), three architraves (middle parts), and three pilasters (columns). This marketing piece would also have color photos of different elements assembled together to give the home owner an idea of what the finished mantle will look like. The same concept could easily be applied to front entry door surrounds. And in this model I would be invisible to the home owner, and would never be in a position to even have to respond to requests to change this or that.

By pre-building and priming a selection of components, one could provide delivery of product within a very short time frame - contractors would find this very valuable, and it could be a great selling point when soliciting new customers (finding reliable subs is a hard task for contractors in a booming market). By making multiples of a given part, one will save a considerable amount of set-up time. Final assembly of the components into a semi-custom mantle would be very easy and fast, and basically entail just glueing and nailing the pieces together.

As part of my service, I'm planning on delivering and installing the mantles. With the design I worked out, installation only requires three ledger boards and seven finish nails.

I'm also planning on being prepared to provide for free a mantle to a builder who is truly interested in my service, if I have to. I'm just going to factor this type of expense into my marketing budget. Each year there is a Parade of Homes in my area; it's a big deal where builders open show homes to the public (and other builders who check out the competition). If I end up providing any gratis product, I'll probably tie it to the Parade of Homes so I can at least get a some signage displayed as well.

Will, if you think that you are going to move forward with this type of model, I'd really enjoy hearing about your experiences, ideas and what you learn through the process. My reasons are a little selfish, as there is no reason to re-invent the wheel through trial and error. Anyway, my email address is scott-AT-gemstateelk.org (replace the -AT- with @).

Regards,

Scott