I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Many thanks for any advice

Nick

I would not put post directly into the soil. Put them in
concrete....unless the rules are it must be portable, then I's put
cement pads of about 1 foot in diameter and let the struct rest on it.
Maybe have something that screws it down tight but will come apart.

Is there a wind problem in your area? If so, make sure it's well
anchored.
Heavy snow? If so, follow the roof slope code.
Lots of rain? If so,the botton structure must be welll drained and
treated.
My guess is that building your own will save you about half.....

On 9 Jan 2005 18:28:07 -0800, "TrailRat"
wrote:

I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

Not overly hard. It's mostly rough carpentry and doesn't require the
precision of, say, furniture making. And you don't need a lot of
tools beyond a circular saw and a hammer.


Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

I you look at what you would pay to have someone come and build you a
shed of comparable size and quality, yes, it's considerably cheaper to
build your own. And a lot more satisfying.


Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.
You probably want to get it up off the soil to protect it from rot. I
built my shed using post and beam construction, comparable to what is
typically done for a deck. The floor is probably about 6" off the
ground and it's still rock solid after about 15 years. If that's not
allowed (and it sounds like it might not be if you're on rented
property) then at a minimum consider setting it on concrete blocks or
treated-lumber beams resting on the ground.


And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Check with local lumberyards. I got my plans there for free. They
have an obvious interest in selling you shed materials, and they give
away free plans to encourage you. You might also check the local
library for home-and-garden books that might have shed plans.


-- jc
Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection.
If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net

I built a 'temporary' shed on a pair of PT 6x6s each laid in a trench filled with gravel (saw Norm do this for a greenhouse I think). It has been there for years and is still good as new.

I would also use PT lumber for 'floor joists' and the floor if the shed will have a floor. PT plywood lasts a long time if it is not in direct contact with the ground and doesn't get standing water. If you do use PT plywood, glue it, screw it and nail it (then more screws) as soon as you get it home; if you don't get it down right away it will curl up.

For the walls I used T-111 plywood. It is 1/2" exterior plywood with grooves every 6 or 8 inches. Painted, it looks ok, some people even stain with deck stain.

My neighbor gave me some oval headed nails to install the T-111. He said they were the correct 'decorative' fastners for installing it. I think they were the correct fastners for him to laugh his ass off as I tried to drive them in. I still have a half a box of them left as a reminder not to ever buy them.

"TrailRat" wrote in message
oups.com...
I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Many thanks for any advice

Nick

I built a shed a couple of years back. In our little hamlet, we can't build
a shed any larger than 100 sq. ft. without pouring a concrete foundation, so
that's how big mine is. If I'm reading your post correctly, you want a shed
with a 8 ft x 4 ft floor where the highest point is 6 feet off the ground.
Honestly, if this was my requirement, I'd have to have a really good reason
not to purchase a prefab shed from the local Home Depot, Lowes, etc. My
little shed is about 3 times the square footage and about twice as high, so
Rubbermaid doesn't make something in my range, but they do in yours. They
have a Big Max Jr. that is about the size you're looking for.

If you're set on building one, building the shed is not rocket science, but
I wouldn't say it's a cake walk either. Mine was probably made additionally
difficult because I chose a gambrel roof. I also used a steel rollup door,
but I think that was actually easier than building wooden doors.
Rather than laying it directly on the soil, I suggest you check out using a
precast concrete footing that rests on the ground and has slots that accept
a 2x joist. Home Depot carries such a thing. If you need a plan, for God's
sake, buy one. The $7 I spent on mine was lost in the total cost. As for
cost, it's hard to compare. The wood shed kits that the big box stores
carry are extremely crappy. 2x3 studs, 2/4 floor joists...basically think
the lowest-end material that can be found for every element. So, I wouldn't
build one because I thought I would save a lot of money. Rather, I'd build
one because I'd end up with the design I wanted with the quality I had in
mind.

todd

"TrailRat" wrote in message

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

Circular saw, hammer, not much more.


Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Depends. On a square foot basis, you can buy the metal sheds for less than
you can build a good wood one. But you can build a good wood one for much
less than a pre-fab. There are some kits though, that may be worth checking
out.


Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

You set some concrete blocks at the corners to get things level. The shed
must be anchored though.


And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Then part with ten bucks to get what you want. Thee are plenty of books at
Home Depot with shed plands and ideas. If you plan to spend $500 for
materials, spending a few dollars to get what you want is just common sense.
If I knew you were such a cheap prick when I started reading this, I would
not have bothered answering this much.

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
ups.com...
I would not put post directly into the soil. Put them in
concrete....unless the rules are it must be portable, then I's put
cement pads of about 1 foot in diameter and let the struct rest on it.
Maybe have something that screws it down tight but will come apart.

I used deck blocks for mine. They're cheap, heavy, and seem to do the
trick. I agree with the advice to avoid putting it directly on soil. Even
having grass underneath (around the edges) canl transpire enough moisture to
give you grief. I put exterior paint on the underside around the edges of
my shed. It's too early to tell (2 1/2 years so far) but no sign of trouble
so far.

My guess is that building your own will save you about half.....

I agree with this, too. Almost exactly half. I built the biggest shed I
could without a permit (8' x 13' 6") for $1200Cdn, and that included a new
Porter Cable circular saw. I was also able to build it higher than store
bought kits, so the volume of storage is much greater.

My father and I built it in less than 2 weeks from start to finish including
painting 3 coats. We'd design the day's work before breakfast, then work
until we'd finished a modular task.

If you've got the time I highly recommend giving it a go. You'll save a lot
of money, you'll have something you'll be very proud of when you're
finished, and you'll appreciate of it every time you see those minimal
structures on sale at stores. If you don't have the time, definitely don't
do it, or you'll cut too many corners and end up frustrated.

I wrote a long letter to my uncle after I was done, describing the
experience in much more detail. If you or anyone else is interested send me
email (change my e-mail username from nospam to owen) and I'll send it to
you.

Good luck with it!

- Owen -

On 9 Jan 2005 18:28:07 -0800, "TrailRat"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Try the local hardware stores etc. They have pre-fab kits for sheds
this big. Built to specs. Easy to put up. Cheap. Easy to remove from
your rented lot when you move.

Nick...

One thing you don't want to do is put any wood on/in the ground. I
believe the guarantee of the wood is voided if it is in contact with
the ground. The PT content will leech out over time and the
"protection" you might've had would be lost. Termites will eat older
or leeched-out PT wood, and carpenter ants... well they don't eat
wood, but they will carve out nesting areas so make sure you have good
drainage. Termites will build mud tunnels over/past "untasty" areas
to get to regular lumber, so inspect on a regular basis. Don't put up
any walls in the interior because you won't be able to see any termite
or carpenter ant activity in the studs. A shed, even though its off
the ground, creates a thermal image with a ground temperature change
as a result. This is what termites zero in on. I'm in the biz, I do
bank inspections for home mortgages.

If you can't use sonotubes with concrete, then get the pyramid blocks
they have at HD and Lowes as suggested by another poster. It might
not be a bad idea to put down some crushed stone under the shed for
drainage purposes. Using PT plywood and joists is a good idea and
it's not that much more expensive. If at all possible, don't have
tree branches overhanging the shed... carpenter ants are normally
feeding on aphids on trees and they will fall off onto the roof. Once
there they will explore and if there is _any_ significant moisture
content in the wood, they will consider the shed for a sub-colony
nest.

My gut instinct would be to build the shed. Gotta'be cheaper. Go to
HD and get one of those Sunset books... they have plan outlines or
maybe some plans, if nothing else, they have plans in those books for
cheap.


On 9 Jan 2005 18:28:07 -0800, "TrailRat"
wrote:

I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Many thanks for any advice

Nick

Thank you for all of the advice so far.

I should have mention I'm in the UK but I'm sure a I'll find Home Depot
substitute. I can't build a prefab shed as it has to be all wooden
construction. The door has to be in the gable end and glass free
windows down at least one side. Shiplap boards have to make up the
walls.

Thank you edwin for that cheap prick comment. It's not that I'm
tightfisted, I'm just on a self sufficienty kick at the moment and I
have to justify costs. And from all you comments buying plans are
justified.

"TrailRat" wrote in message

Thank you edwin for that cheap prick comment. It's not that I'm
tightfisted, I'm just on a self sufficienty kick at the moment and I
have to justify costs. And from all you comments buying plans are
justified.


Glad I could be of help. Since you want/need to pinch pennies, it is even
more important that you invest properly in getting the knowledge to avoid
costly errors. Much cheaper to read a book and get proper advice than to
have to tear out and waste materials.

"TrailRat" you asked
Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Recycle lumber from solid pallets.If you know a place that uses rolled
aluminum see if you can get the solid pallets for free.
I built a good size shed (larger than 10x10)for under $400.All the exterior
sheathing was from recylced solid pallets.
I had to denail the pallets but the wood was well worth it.The cost savings
is huge verses buying new lumber.

TrailRat wrote:

I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

Many thanks for any advice

Nick


I built my own 12x16 and am extremely pleased with the results. No
regrets whatsoever. Since you obviously have lots of restrictions, I'd
opt to have a Tuff Shed or some other prebuilt, then the powers to be
see exactly what it looks like ahead of time w/ the companies
brochures. You can do the finish work inside yourself, wiring etc. Oh,
and set it atop rail road ties so its "portable". Mine is set on 3 rows
along the 16' axis - sides are 2' in from the edge and 1 row along the
center so the biggest span is 4'. But I also did the floor with 2x6s on
12" centers too.
Grandpa John

In article .com,
says...
I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

It's a fair amount of work, depending on the type of roof and the size
of the shed, but none of it is complicated. A circulr saw and a power
drill (for screws) would be sufficient.

Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

Probably not, but you'll wind up with a better shed. IMNSHO, if you do
buy a shed, buy a wooden one, not a metal one. I've never seen a metal
one that didn't leak.

Here in the states, some of the lumber yards and home stores sell wooden
shed kits. Some pretty bad lumber in them, but still better than metal.


Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

OK, again I'm speaking from whats available in the US. Put down a
sand/gravel "slab" and level it. Put a plastic moisture barier on top
of that. Then lay out the "foundation" from 4x4 treated timbers. Put
exterior plywood on that for a floor. Paint both sides of the plywood
with an exterior latex first. Proceed with normal wall/roof
construction from there.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).


6' tall at the peak? Unless you're limited by law, I'd go 6.5' at the
eaves and 8' at the peak. Of course I'm 6'2" - YMMV.

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

wrote in message
...
Nick...

One thing you don't want to do is put any wood on/in the ground. I
believe the guarantee of the wood is voided if it is in contact with
the ground. The PT content will leech out over time and the
"protection" you might've had would be lost.

Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the ground.

--

-Mike-

For "ConRAD Forest Products Wolmanized® Natural SelectTM Wood...

http://www.conradfp.com/ns.htm

They have a few "qualifiers" on the warranty.

"Warrantor shall not be liable hereunder for damage to Natural Select
wood resulting from any cause other than termites or fungal decay, or
for any damage to wood which has been used in a structure outside of
the U.S.; used in foundation systems (such as the Permanent Wood
Foundation, and piling, pole or heavy timber type residential
construction); used in swimming pool sidewalls; used as fence posts,
vineyard stakes or tree supports in agricultural applications; used
where immersed in salt water; used for commercial or industrial
projects; used in commonly owned property and structures such as
condominiums; or used for an application or in a way that is not
consistent with the end use identified on its original label or
stamp."

Then there's another qualifier.

"For hem-fir, Douglas fir, and western hemlock, this warranty is null
and void unless all cut ends and bore holes were properly coated at
the time of construction with a suitable wood preservative, such as
Wolmanized Wood End Cut Solution, containing a minimum of 1% copper.
Proof of purchase of the preservative is also required. These species
are covered by this warranty only when used in the states of Alaska,
Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico,
Oregon, Utah, Washington, Wyoming, and Hawaii (except for unincised
decking which does not meet AWPA recommended standards, which is
specifically not warranted by Warrantor in Hawaii)."

There's also plenty written about the leeching I've mentioned. We
find eastern subterranean termites all the time under/in PT landscape
timber, and the next stop... you guessed it, the tasty pile of wood
you call your home. If you care about what you're building, you don't
bury PT wood and hope for the best. The concrete pyramids are quick
and cheap footings/supports.

Mike

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:19:05 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Nick...

One thing you don't want to do is put any wood on/in the ground. I
believe the guarantee of the wood is voided if it is in contact with
the ground. The PT content will leech out over time and the
"protection" you might've had would be lost.

Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the ground.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
In article ,
says...


Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the ground.


Probably varies by manufacturer. The stuff I used for my shed
foundation said 10 years.

But after 15 it's still going strong :-).

Dear Larry,
Check yer system clock.....

Philski

In article ,
says...


Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the ground.

Probably varies by manufacturer. The stuff I used for my shed
foundation said 10 years.

But after 15 it's still going strong :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the
ground.

I thought the good stuff was outlawed. I helped a friend build a 36x36'
deck this summer and all of the tags on the PTL read "not for ground
contact". It also called for Z rated brackets. All of the Borgs were
giving away galvanized brackets, joist hangers, etc. for 10 cents a piece to
get rid of the non-Z rated stuff.

"Ray" wrote in message
news

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the
ground.

I thought the good stuff was outlawed. I helped a friend build a 36x36'
deck this summer and all of the tags on the PTL read "not for ground
contact". It also called for Z rated brackets. All of the Borgs were
giving away galvanized brackets, joist hangers, etc. for 10 cents a piece
to
get rid of the non-Z rated stuff.



Geeze - maybe you're right. I don't use a lot of PT these days and I might
be well out of date with my information. I'll take the correction.

--

-Mike-

My local lumber yard did say the good stuff with the arsenic has be
outlawed. He also mentioned that they upped the copper content to make up
for the loss of the arsenic. The copper when it gets wet, now reacts with
the zinc in the hangers and causes corrosion which affects the iron in the
hanger and eventually hanger failure. The wood probably has a lesser life
span because it has less bug killer built in.
He further stated that the new hangers have an extra heavy coating of zinc,
so the iron inside will be further protected, and should last longer. He
also suggested using stainless screws to hold the deck planks. Boy an I
glad I built my deck two years ago. I don't know how many pounds of epoxy
coated screws I went through, but I would have needed a second mortgage if
they were stainless.
This years project is a storage shed. This thread has given me lots of good
idea's. I'll be going with the concrete footings.


"Ray" wrote in message
news

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the
ground.

I thought the good stuff was outlawed. I helped a friend build a 36x36'
deck this summer and all of the tags on the PTL read "not for ground
contact". It also called for Z rated brackets. All of the Borgs were
giving away galvanized brackets, joist hangers, etc. for 10 cents a piece
to
get rid of the non-Z rated stuff.

I have twice built one of a pretty large size from plans I drew up
myself, but I have a bit of experience in framing. At any rate you can
do it.

You can save money but also very important is: it can be of a higher
quality.
If you can find a source of good used lumber you could save even more.

If you will be leaving it when you move you won't need to worry about
moving it. But if you want to build it to be moved you could give some
thought to how to build it so that it could be placed on a flatbed
truck. A friend of mine built one out of used framing lumber and siding
and had it loaded on a truck with a forklift and moved it to is new
place.

At any rate best of luck. You'll have some fun and get a better shed to
boot.

RonT

Mike...

One of the reasons the "good stuff" was outlawed a few years ago was
that the arsenic actually rubs off on contact with human skin. Many
abitious dads and grandpops were building jungle gyms, swings, and
tree houses out of it and the EPA got involved because of all the
medical problems that arose. I believe a Children's safety group was
also involved, and there was a big article in Time or Newsweek
exposing the hazards. It actually made me worry because there are
plenty of decks out there that have kids playing on them. It was
pointed out in the article that homeowners should seal their decks on
a regular basis to keep the arsenic in the wood and not on bare feet
or kids hands and knees.

All that being said, many towns have adopted a change in building
codes that _requires_ the sill plate on all new construction to be PT.
It's kind of ironic because while the sill plate isn't tasty to a
termite, he can walk 2" and go right for the box plate/rim joist which
is regular kiln-dried lumber.

Mike

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:56:27 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:


"Ray" wrote in message
news

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...

Pressure treated wood is guanteed for 40 years or whatever... in the
ground.

I thought the good stuff was outlawed. I helped a friend build a 36x36'
deck this summer and all of the tags on the PTL read "not for ground
contact". It also called for Z rated brackets. All of the Borgs were
giving away galvanized brackets, joist hangers, etc. for 10 cents a piece
to
get rid of the non-Z rated stuff.



Geeze - maybe you're right. I don't use a lot of PT these days and I might
be well out of date with my information. I'll take the correction.

"Ron Truitt" wrote in message
...
I have twice built one of a pretty large size from plans I drew up
myself, but I have a bit of experience in framing. At any rate you can
do it.

You built the same shed twice? Maybe you should refine your plans to make
it a little sturdier next time.

(Sorry, couldn't resist. )

- Owen -

On Saturday 22 Jan 2005 5:17 am, Prometheus scribbled:

On 9 Jan 2005 18:28:07 -0800, "TrailRat"
wrote:

Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a
concrete foundation.

You could put it on concrete blocks.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot
at the apex).

What the heck do you need plans for? Buy a book on general framing
(or get one from the library), and get to work. It's not like you're
going to be laying out several rooms in something that small.

Judging by his post, he is from the UK, so may not be familiar with our
North American wood framing system. Here are some plans, courtesy of
JOAT, obtained by doing an advanced Google groups search on "free shed
plans" in rec.woodworking.

http://www.wolmanizedwood.com/shed.gif

adapt as needed
--
Luigi
Current real email is my first name in lower case while the domain is
yknet dot ca
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html
www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html

On 9 Jan 2005 18:28:07 -0800, "TrailRat"
wrote:

I want to build a shed for an allotment but I have no idea where to
start. As the allotment is council rented I have to stick to rules
about it. Like sizes, shape of roof etc etc.

Firstly how easy is it? If you've read previous post then you know my
experinces with wood are small toys, puzzles and games and I'm limited
to hand tools plus a few minor power tools.

That depends on who you are, and how quickly you can pick things up.
Lots of guys can build a good shed the first time out, and lots of
folks can't do it after twenty tries. Take it nice and slow, and make
sure to measure constantly, and it should be pretty easy.

Is it cheaper than just going out and buying a shed?

That depends on how much your time is worth, and how long it takes you
to do it. In most cases, yes- but sometimes it's worth the extra
price to buy pre-fab if you've got too many other irons in the fire.
The other option is to find someone who puts them up in their spare
time- I put up 3 or 4 sheds and/or garages every summer, and my going
rate is $15 an hour. It takes about 20 hours for one guy to get the
framing, roof and sheathing on for a decent sized one-car garage, and
about 12 hours for a shed that is about the size you're describing.
Depending on where you're located, that may be cheaper than buying one
pre-made.

Can it be placed straight onto soil because I am not allowed a concrete
foundation.

We've got some Amish in the area that really like building entire
houses without foundations to avoid taxes. So yes, it's possible.
Whether it's desirable or not is another question altogether, and one
I'm not prepared to comment on.

And are there any free plans for sheds because most I've seen need
money and don't have a plan for an 8 x 4 foot apex roof shed (6 foot at
the apex).

What the heck do you need plans for? Buy a book on general framing
(or get one from the library), and get to work. It's not like you're
going to be laying out several rooms in something that small.

Many thanks for any advice

Nick

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam