writes:

"Scott Willett" wrote in message
I am very new to woodworking. This question seems so basic, that I am
probably missing the obvious.

For example if I buy a 2'x 4' sheet of wood and there is not a perfect
90
angle on at least one angle, will not all my cuts that are up against my
fence on the table saw be off?

For "practical" purposes the 'factory' edges of sheet goods are considered
"square" ... and are generally "square enough" for woodworking purposes.

Unless one is buying seconds which have not been cut square; remember he
said 2'x4' not 4'x8'.

Often, for utility projects, I buy from Shurway which sells seconds and
trims. They have cuts in 2'x4' pieces which can easily fit in my Prius
with the advantage I don't have solicit a pickup to haul it or to struggle
with a large sheet of 3/4" plywood! If I use these for anything that
matters, my wonderful (old-time and good quality) carpenter's square helps
to ensure the wood is square.

Glenna

"Glenna Rose" wrote in message
writes:

For "practical" purposes the 'factory' edges of sheet goods are
considered
"square" ... and are generally "square enough" for woodworking purposes.

Unless one is buying seconds which have not been cut square; remember he
said 2'x4' not 4'x8'.

You know, Glenna, sometimes you just have to give people the credit for
having the ability to take one key bit of information of which they were not
aware, then solving the remainder of their problem themselves.

Kindly "remember" I was SIMPLY imparting information, of which he may not
have been aware, to an obvious newbie about "factory" edges on sheet goods.

Now, for all of you who think it is absolutely imperative to take it upon
yourselves to qualify every little bit of posted information with exceptions
and "what ifs", you tell me the last time you saw 2' x 4' sheet goods for
retail SALE without at least TWO factory edges, whether it be "seconds" or
not?

While not impossible in some flavors like BB, it is likely as rare as hen's
teeth at most places a newbie is likely to shop.

..... _think_ about it.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 09:00:40 -0600, "Swingman" wrote:


Now, for all of you who think it is absolutely imperative to take it upon
yourselves to qualify every little bit of posted information with exceptions
and "what ifs", you tell me the last time you saw 2' x 4' sheet goods for
retail SALE without at least TWO factory edges, whether it be "seconds" or
not?

WHAT IF you want the ply heartwood? Don't they cut that from the center of
the sheet? And, WHAT IF pigs had wings? Ha, got ya there! -- Igor

Swingman wrote:

Now, for all of you who think it is absolutely imperative to take it upon
yourselves to qualify every little bit of posted information with exceptions
and "what ifs", you tell me the last time you saw 2' x 4' sheet goods for
retail SALE without at least TWO factory edges, whether it be "seconds" or
not?

Er, while I know better than to jump into the middle of this one,
I'll mention that my local discount lumber dealer whacks 4x8
sheet goods into 2x4 "Handy Panels". It's possible that they make
one longitudinal cut and one transverse cut; but I'd be willing
to offer odds that they make three transverse cuts - and that the
center two panels have factory edges only on the 2' ends. Even
when one of their 2x4 panels will fill my need, I still buy an
entire 4x8 panel and cut it down myself to ensure squareness.

There've been a few times when I've found entire pallets of their
4x8 plywood off-square. I use plywood panels in fabrication of
solar panels; and I learned early on (the hard way) to CNC cut
/all four/ sides of each panel to ensure straight edges and
square corners.

If it hasn't been a problem for you, that's great - but my
experience leads me to believe that Glenna is wise to put a
square to (at least) her seconds and trims whenever squareness
matters.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:

Now, for all of you who think it is absolutely imperative to take it
upon
yourselves to qualify every little bit of posted information with
exceptions
and "what ifs", you tell me the last time you saw 2' x 4' sheet goods
for
retail SALE without at least TWO factory edges, whether it be "seconds"
or
not?

Er, while I know better than to jump into the middle of this one,

Obviously not.

I'll mention that my local discount lumber dealer whacks 4x8
sheet goods into 2x4 "Handy Panels". It's possible that they make
one longitudinal cut and one transverse cut; but I'd be willing
to offer odds that they make three transverse cuts - and that the
center two panels have factory edges only on the 2' ends. Even
when one of their 2x4 panels will fill my need, I still buy an
entire 4x8 panel and cut it down myself to ensure squareness.

Now go back and read what I said about "at least TWO factory edges".

There've been a few times when I've found entire pallets of their
4x8 plywood off-square. I use plywood panels in fabrication of
solar panels; and I learned early on (the hard way) to CNC cut
/all four/ sides of each panel to ensure straight edges and
square corners.

If it hasn't been a problem for you, that's great - but my
experience leads me to believe that Glenna is wise to put a
square to (at least) her seconds and trims whenever squareness
matters.

Now go back and read what I said about it being possible, but rarely being a
problem.

One the issue of being "wise", here's another one to "qualify", "except",
and "what if" on for awhile:

An experienced woodworker picks and chooses that material which saves him
time and effort. IOW, if you need a factory corner because you don't know
how to handle squaring your work, then for goodness sakes ONLY buy a 2 x 4
piece that has one!!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

You know, Glenna, sometimes you just have to give people the credit for
having the ability to take one key bit of information of which they were
not
aware, then solving the remainder of their problem themselves.


I know exactly what you mean. I sit and shake my head sometimes when I read
helpful "clarifications" that people add to other posts. It is usually
something so patently obvious that it is a waste of everyone's time to read.
I always think that if the op does not understand already these helpful
points then they have far greater problems than the question they asked.

Frank

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in message

"Swingman" wrote in message

You know, Glenna, sometimes you just have to give people the credit for
having the ability to take one key bit of information of which they were
not
aware, then solving the remainder of their problem themselves.


I know exactly what you mean. I sit and shake my head sometimes when I
read
helpful "clarifications" that people add to other posts. It is usually
something so patently obvious that it is a waste of everyone's time to
read.
I always think that if the op does not understand already these helpful
points then they have far greater problems than the question they asked.

AMEN, brother!!

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Swingman wrote:

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

Er, while I know better than to jump into the middle of this one,

Obviously not.

Well, I never claimed to be wise. (-:

I'll mention that my local discount lumber dealer whacks 4x8
sheet goods into 2x4 "Handy Panels". It's possible that they make
one longitudinal cut and one transverse cut; but I'd be willing
to offer odds that they make three transverse cuts - and that the
center two panels have factory edges only on the 2' ends. Even
when one of their 2x4 panels will fill my need, I still buy an
entire 4x8 panel and cut it down myself to ensure squareness.

Now go back and read what I said about "at least TWO factory edges".

Well yes, your count was correct; but the more important point is
that the center 2x4 pieces may not be anywhere near square at
*any* corner, even /with/ two factory edges.

There've been a few times when I've found entire pallets of their
4x8 plywood off-square. I use plywood panels in fabrication of
solar panels; and I learned early on (the hard way) to CNC cut
/all four/ sides of each panel to ensure straight edges and
square corners.

If it hasn't been a problem for you, that's great - but my
experience leads me to believe that Glenna is wise to put a
square to (at least) her seconds and trims whenever squareness
matters.

Now go back and read what I said about it being possible, but rarely being a
problem.

You lost me there. Rarely a problem because [1] you have a
supplier who reliably provides square goods, [2] rarely a problem
because your usage isn't heavily dependent on squareness, or [3]
rarely a problem because you nearly always check and correct any
lack of squareness?

One the issue of being "wise", here's another one to "qualify", "except",
and "what if" on for awhile:

An experienced woodworker picks and chooses that material which saves him
time and effort. IOW, if you need a factory corner because you don't know
how to handle squaring your work, then for goodness sakes ONLY buy a 2 x 4
piece that has one!!

Only superficially true - and then only when cost is not a
factor. Beginners *need* to learn how to square their work. In
the real world, experienced woodworkers make cost trade-offs and
nearly always find themselves jointing, ripping, resawing,
thickness planing, etc. rather than spending the significant
amount that it'd take to have suppliers perform those operations.
I have a waist-high stack of rough sawn cherry in my shop in
which I expect to invest more time and effort preparing for use
than I will spend actually incorporating into projects - not
because I'm inexperienced, but because I'd never be able to
justify the cost of any other approach (not to mention that I'll
enjoy every relaxing second of it!)

On the commercial production side, I buy solid (but unreliably
sized and shaped) plywood because doing so provides a net
production cost savings. I save about $7/sheet at the cost of
approximately 133 seconds/sheet of additional CNC machine time.
That savings works out to roughly $190/hour of machine time for
those parts and so (in my shop) is a good trade-off; and it
allows me to sell the finished product for less than I could
otherwise - always a 'Good Thing'.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message

Er, while I know better than to jump into the middle of this one,

Obviously not.

Well, I never claimed to be wise. (-:

There've been a few times when I've found entire pallets of their
4x8 plywood off-square. I use plywood panels in fabrication of

snip of a ****load of "exceptions", "qualification's" and "what-if's"

LOL ... you're just trying to be funny now, right?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Swingman wrote:

LOL ... you're just trying to be funny now, right?

Partly yanking your chain - and partly pointing out that what you
labeled exceptions, qualifications, and what-ifs are normal,
fundamental, and quite real in other contexts that you seemed to
have not considered.

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html

In article ,
Morris Dovey wrote:
...snipped...
Er, while I know better than to jump into the middle of this one,
I'll mention that my local discount lumber dealer whacks 4x8
sheet goods into 2x4 "Handy Panels". It's possible that they make
one longitudinal cut and one transverse cut; but I'd be willing
to offer odds that they make three transverse cuts - and that the
center two panels have factory edges only on the 2' ends. Even
when one of their 2x4 panels will fill my need, I still buy an
entire 4x8 panel and cut it down myself to ensure squareness.
...snipped...

The 3 cut method might be used on MDF, OSB, particle board, etc. but
for plywood, the only panels I've seen with the face grain running
perpendicular to the long dimension were in the cull bins.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
Swingman wrote:

LOL ... you're just trying to be funny now, right?

Partly yanking your chain - and partly pointing out that what you
labeled exceptions, qualifications, and what-ifs are normal,
fundamental, and quite real in other contexts that you seemed to
have not considered.

Actually, the above bit of condescension is both unbecoming and misguided
considering the following:

" ... sometimes you just have to give people the credit for
having the ability to take one key bit of information of which they were not
aware, then solving the remainder of their problem themselves."

Not a bad idea to keep in mind, _before_ you go pointing out what you
erroneously think others "seemed to have not considered".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Lawrence Wasserman wrote:

The 3 cut method might be used on MDF, OSB, particle board,
etc. but for plywood, the only panels I've seen with the face
grain running perpendicular to the long dimension were in the
cull bins.

That's the way I think they /should/ be cut. Last time I was
there (to dig through the so-called "select" SYP 1x6s) I passed
by the stack of "handy panels" and the panel on the top of the
pile was cut the other way. I wasn't curious enough and didn't
have time to see if the whole pile was cut that way - and I
wouldn't have noticed at all but for what struck me as the
unreasonable cost charged to the consumer for the convenience of
having the piece pre-cut to 2x4.

Normally when I buy plywood, I get fifty sheets at a time and
have it delivered to the shop; but next time I'm back in that
yard, I'll make a point of checking...

--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html