I have about $

















I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on
the web sounds like a nice unit. I was woundering if you all know of a
better one for the money. It will be in a stationary place.

Thanks

The Patt's wrote:
I have about $





I have one. It depends on what you need. The table with iron wings is very nice. The 36" fence is great for a mid price contractor saw.
The herculift works well. The motor is adequate. It cuts well enough.
The downside: A 2.5" dust port, not a 4", ligher trunions, service and
parts issues are not very good, the fence is quite light (will it
survive a decade of heavy use?), 3rd party add ons are harder to find,
etc. All in all, for $550 or so it is a fine saw if you are not a heavy
user and can live with the minor problems. I am not sure that there are
"better" ones. The Jet has advantages, as does the Delta but they cost
more and have shorter fences. Griz is nice as well and a bargain. My
prediction: If you but it you will probable be satisfied but will not
really love it.











I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on
the web sounds like a nice unit. I was woundering if you all know of a
better one for the money. It will be in a stationary place.

Thanks

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:27:56 -0500, "The Patt's"
wrote:

I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on


Personally, I'd see if I could find a deal on a Delta Contractors saw.
I think you will find it to be a little more beefy and while the fence
could be better you can always add a better fence at a later date.
You should be able to get very close to the $ 600 figure.

Mike

The Patt's wrote:

I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on
the web sounds like a nice unit. I was woundering if you all know of a
better one for the money. It will be in a stationary place.

Thanks

Lowe's has the Jet JWTS-10JF for $598, less 20% for a pre-tax price of
$478. Factor in the $100 Lowe's gift card rebate on top of the 20%
discount and you're under $400. I don't know how it compares to the
RIGID but the price sounds good to me.
Al

You guys go on and on about the "RIDGID" CRAP!!! I advise anyone
wanting to purchase ANY tool to do their homework first. Ridgid has a
forum on thier website. READ THE REVIEWS!!! Most people outside the
powertool industry don't realize that Ridgid "powertools" are NOT
owned or operated by the Ridgid pipe tool company. Ridgid powertools
are imported (from the lowest bidder in CHINA) by a company by the
name of TTI. TTI leases the Ridgid name from the pipe tool company.
Check out the local service. This thing is a piece of machinery just
like a car. It will eventually fail. When it does, where will you get
it fixed and how long will it take to get it fixed? The last thing you
need is to be in the middle of a job and have your tool crap out on
you and the repair guy tells you it's going to be a MINIMUM of 3
MONTHS before he even looks at it. This is the case here in New
Orleans where there is only one repair shop for everything south of
Baton Rouge. He's in no hurry to get your tool done because Home Depot
only reimburses warranty claims to authorized service centers ONCE A
YEAR!!! All that aside, Ridgid and Ryobi are HOME DEPOT ONLY TOOLS!!!
Home Depot has an exclusive market for these tools. You can't go to
the local tool house and compair prices....THEY DON'T HAVE THE TOOL!!!
Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists. NO BUSINESS CAN
OPERATE ON A 6% MARKUP!! Where do you think they make their money? On
the Ridgid, Ryobi, Work-Force tools, the $6.82 3/4" shackels, the
$1.26 O-rings for your faucets. Do what you want with your money, but
be advised, Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores aren't
there for you to save money. They're there to make money. And, they're
making it hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.


On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:27:56 -0500, "The Patt's"
wrote:

I have about $

















I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on
the web sounds like a nice unit. I was woundering if you all know of a
better one for the money. It will be in a stationary place.

Thanks

duh


"Usenet" wrote in message
...
Y

ou guys go on and on about the "RIDGID" CRAP!!! I advise anyone
wanting to purchase ANY tool to do their homework first. Ridgid has a
forum on thier website. READ THE REVIEWS!!! Most people outside the
powertool industry don't realize that Ridgid "powertools" are NOT
owned or operated by the Ridgid pipe tool company. Ridgid powertools
are imported (from the lowest bidder in CHINA) by a company by the
name of TTI. TTI leases the Ridgid name from the pipe tool company.
Check out the local service. This thing is a piece of machinery just
like a car. It will eventually fail. When it does, where will you get
it fixed and how long will it take to get it fixed? The last thing you
need is to be in the middle of a job and have your tool crap out on
you and the repair guy tells you it's going to be a MINIMUM of 3
MONTHS before he even looks at it. This is the case here in New
Orleans where there is only one repair shop for everything south of
Baton Rouge. He's in no hurry to get your tool done because Home Depot
only reimburses warranty claims to authorized service centers ONCE A
YEAR!!! All that aside, Ridgid and Ryobi are HOME DEPOT ONLY TOOLS!!!
Home Depot has an exclusive market for these tools. You can't go to
the local tool house and compair prices....THEY DON'T HAVE THE TOOL!!!
Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists. NO BUSINESS CAN
OPERATE ON A 6% MARKUP!! Where do you think they make their money? On
the Ridgid, Ryobi, Work-Force tools, the $6.82 3/4" shackels, the
$1.26 O-rings for your faucets. Do what you want with your money, but
be advised, Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores aren't
there for you to save money. They're there to make money. And, they're
making it hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.


On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:27:56 -0500, "The Patt's"
wrote:

I have about $

















I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD
and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on
the web sounds like a nice unit. I was woundering if you all know of a
better one for the money. It will be in a stationary place.

Thanks

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:27:56 -0500, "The Patt's"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

He leaps!

Is this your first table saw? If so, do you really need one?

Serious question. There are a few people here who started to post
agreement.

I have about $500. to $600. to blow on a table saw I was at the local HD and
saw a RIDGID 10 In. Cast Iron Table Saw Model TS3650 did some research on
the web sounds like a nice unit. I was woundering if you all know of a
better one for the money. It will be in a stationary place.

Thanks

Usenet babbles:

snip of lotsa nearly accurate stuff.

You can't go to
the local tool house and compair prices....THEY DON'T HAVE THE TOOL!!!
Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists.

Yeah. You see YOUR price lists and think they're the be-all and end-all.

o what you want with your money, but
be advised, Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores aren't
there for you to save money. They're there to make money. And, they're
making it hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.

But you're there JUST to save the public money? No business is going to last if
it doesn't make money. Even little one man stores have to feed, clothe and
house the owner, so there to make money.

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

Usenet wrote:

Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists.

How come the two little guys I shop at beat HD on this stuff every day?

Do these store owners live in tents, out back? Are they registered as a
501(C) charity? Do the store employees donate time?

No! G

You need a new price list.

Barry

Barry,

I never said that Home Depot sells everything at a 6% markup.

As for the two tool houses you frequent, no, their employees (the few
they have) don't donate their time. The owners don't live in tents.
And they are not charities. I never implied that they were.

I do, however, have a few questions for you.

Where do you do your comparison shopping on Ridgid and Ryobi?

What advantage would any company have in selling their product to only
one distributor?

If Home Depot is the only retailer of Ridgid and Ryobi what would be
the purpose in selling those brands at a 6% markup?

Are you a contractor?

Do you sell tools?

Do you work for Home Depot?

Do you work for TTI?

Do you work for Ridgid, Ryobi, or Milwaukee?

How many different models of the major manufacturers do your 2 little
guys have?

How many tools do your 2 little guys have that Home Depot doesn't
have?

What other services do your 2 little guys offer that Home Depot
Doesn't offer?



Look, people, I'm not here trying to get you to buy any particular
brand of tool. Ridgid, Ryobi, Craftsman, Chicago Electric, Emmerson,
and any of these other cheaply made power tools have their place. That
is, in the hands of homeowners and not in the hands of contractors and
serious woodworkers. I really believe that Home Depot doesn't care one
bit how much they rip off the american public. I know (and the
knowledge is out there) these lesser, cheaply made tools (ESPECIALLY
Ridgid) are in some cases being posed as equal in if not superior in
quality to the tools put out by the major manufacturers. Ridgid power
tools are of the same caliber as CHEAP Black and Decker tools with one
exception.... Black and Decker knows their $39.00 circular saw is a
$39.00 circular saw and they sell it as such.

On 14 Jan 2005 08:35:38 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Usenet babbles:

snip of lotsa nearly accurate stuff.

You can't go to
the local tool house and compair prices....THEY DON'T HAVE THE TOOL!!!
Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists.

Yeah. You see YOUR price lists and think they're the be-all and end-all.

My price lists are not the end all and be all. I'm sure when you get
as big as Home Depot and Lowes there is another SMALL price break.

o what you want with your money, but
be advised, Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores aren't
there for you to save money. They're there to make money. And, they're
making it hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.

But you're there JUST to save the public money? No business is going to last if
it doesn't make money. Even little one man stores have to feed, clothe and
house the owner, so there to make money.

No, Charlie, I'm here to make money just like everyone else with one
exception; I'm not offering MY INFERIOR in-house brand to my customers
at the same price as my Porter Cable, Makita and DeWalt. I'm also
trying my damnedest to educate the public. See my followup to Barry's
post.

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

Usenet wrote:

Where do you do your comparison shopping on Ridgid and Ryobi?

I don't. I compare them on a tool by tool basis to other brands. So
far I've bought one tool, a Ridgid jointer. The jointer served we
well, and I sold to another person here on the 'wreck, after buying a
DJ-20 from on of my "little guys" for $1099.

What advantage would any company have in selling their product to only
one distributor?

Why would I care?

If Home Depot is the only retailer of Ridgid and Ryobi what would be
the purpose in selling those brands at a 6% markup?

There isn't any.

I understood your post to say that HD was selling DeWalt, PC, etc... at
a 6% markup.

How many different models of the major manufacturers do your 2 little
guys have?

Many!

See for yourself:
http://www.coastaltool.com/
http://www.toolsplus.com/

In store prices are often lower than those on the sites.

I'm not the only 'wrecker who patronizes these guys. FWIW, both are
across the street from HD stores.


How many tools do your 2 little guys have that Home Depot doesn't
have?

Also many!

What other services do your 2 little guys offer that Home Depot
Doesn't offer?

Only web service and direction to a tool repair shop for out of warranty
repairs.

I really believe that Home Depot doesn't care one
bit how much they rip off the american public. I know (and the
knowledge is out there) these lesser, cheaply made tools (ESPECIALLY
Ridgid) are in some cases being posed as equal in if not superior in
quality to the tools put out by the major manufacturers.

Smart users do homework before they buy, no?

I snipped some of your other questions for brevity.

Barry

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:36:22 GMT, B a r r y
wrote:

Usenet wrote:

Where do you do your comparison shopping on Ridgid and Ryobi?

I don't. I compare them on a tool by tool basis to other brands. So
far I've bought one tool, a Ridgid jointer. The jointer served we
well, and I sold to another person here on the 'wreck, after buying a
DJ-20 from on of my "little guys" for $1099.

What advantage would any company have in selling their product to only
one distributor?

Why would I care?

If Home Depot is the only retailer of Ridgid and Ryobi what would be
the purpose in selling those brands at a 6% markup?

There isn't any.

I understood your post to say that HD was selling DeWalt, PC, etc... at
a 6% markup.

How many different models of the major manufacturers do your 2 little
guys have?

Many!

See for yourself:
http://www.coastaltool.com/
http://www.toolsplus.com/

In store prices are often lower than those on the sites.

I'm not the only 'wrecker who patronizes these guys. FWIW, both are
across the street from HD stores.


How many tools do your 2 little guys have that Home Depot doesn't
have?

Also many!

What other services do your 2 little guys offer that Home Depot
Doesn't offer?

Only web service and direction to a tool repair shop for out of warranty
repairs.

I really believe that Home Depot doesn't care one
bit how much they rip off the american public. I know (and the
knowledge is out there) these lesser, cheaply made tools (ESPECIALLY
Ridgid) are in some cases being posed as equal in if not superior in
quality to the tools put out by the major manufacturers.

Smart users do homework before they buy, no?

I snipped some of your other questions for brevity.

Barry


Thanks Barry for proving my point!!!

The other guys don't live in tents or work for free or own a charity.
Because they have the other tools and services that HD doesn't.

By the way I did notice that you completely avoided my last paragraph
in my reply.

The HD brand tools (Ridgid and Ryobi) ARE NOT UP TO SNUFF with
the major manufacturers.

I'm sorry you feel the need to get so defensive about spending your
hard earned money on something a REAL tool person thinks is crap.

I'm sure you also get defensive when you throw a bar-b-que and have
Wal-mart brand pickels that you paid Vlassic prices for and your
brother-in-law (who happens to be a chef) picks on you for your
ignorance and arrogance.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:48:41 -0600, Usenet
wrote:

Thanks Barry for proving my point!!!

Unfortunately, I'm totally confused what your point actually is.

By the way I did notice that you completely avoided my last paragraph
in my reply.

Probably because I didn't feel it was relevant in my reply.

The HD brand tools (Ridgid and Ryobi) ARE NOT UP TO SNUFF with
the major manufacturers.

At certain price points, they certainly are, at others they're not.
When I bought my one Ridgid tool, a 6" jointer, I felt the $379 price
was an decent value. I still do.

Ridgid's new 5" ROS is a good looking tool at it's price point. I've
never bought a Ryobi tool, as one has yet to fit into my plan.

I'm sorry you feel the need to get so defensive about spending your
hard earned money on something a REAL tool person thinks is crap.

My General 650, DJ-20, X5 band saw, Veritas & Lie Nielsen planes,
collection of Bosch and PC routers, PC & Makita sanders, Makita and
DeWalt drills, Senco nail guns, Hirsch chisels, Starrett measuring and
marking tools, etc... are all crap? You're right, _I DID NOT_ know
that.

I appreciate the education.

Thanks again!

Barry

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:19:45 GMT, Ba r r y
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 16:48:41 -0600, Usenet
wrote:

Thanks Barry for proving my point!!!

Unfortunately, I'm totally confused what your point actually is.

By the way I did notice that you completely avoided my last paragraph
in my reply.

Probably because I didn't feel it was relevant in my reply.

The HD brand tools (Ridgid and Ryobi) ARE NOT UP TO SNUFF with
the major manufacturers.

At certain price points, they certainly are, at others they're not.
When I bought my one Ridgid tool, a 6" jointer, I felt the $379 price
was an decent value. I still do.

Ridgid's new 5" ROS is a good looking tool at it's price point. I've
never bought a Ryobi tool, as one has yet to fit into my plan.

I'm sorry you feel the need to get so defensive about spending your
hard earned money on something a REAL tool person thinks is crap.

My General 650, DJ-20, X5 band saw, Veritas & Lie Nielsen planes,
collection of Bosch and PC routers, PC & Makita sanders, Makita and
DeWalt drills, Senco nail guns, Hirsch chisels, Starrett measuring and
marking tools, etc... are all crap? You're right, _I DID NOT_ know
that.

I appreciate the education.

Thanks again!

Barry

Barry,

As a tech. for the past 14 years working for both DeWalt and Makita
and repairing ALL major manufacturers tools, and as a professional
woodworker, and now as a salesman and repair tech. for a local
distributor in the New Orleans area, I think I may have a little more
expertise in the power tool industry than you.

And again, maybe you shouldn't be so arrogant and so pompas.

END OF DISCUSSION!!!

"Usenet" wrote in message

END OF DISCUSSION!!!

Naaaah ... you just think it is.

Question: On your informed crap-o-meter, please rank, in best to worst, the
following:

B&D, Ridgid, Ryobi power hand tools

... which seem to be favorite the choices of the yuppie housewife in her
DIY mode.

Reason I ask is that someone fitting that description is asking me, and I
don't generally buy those brands (except my older Ridgid planer, which I
basically stole, and is still going strong (knock, knock))

Thanks for the public service, cher. ;)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

To the question of margin, Usenet clearly does not understand the
dynamics of a competitive marketplace. Let us assume that Ryobi has no
sustainable cost advantage over other manufacturers. The price
(margin) that can be charged at retail, therefore, is constrained by
the retail prices (margins) of competitive product. Having the
exclusive ability to sell a product does allow one to set prices freely
without fear of price-shopping on any exact model. Selling that
product into a competitive market against more widely-available lines
means that unless there is a premium value to the brandname, unlikely
in the case of Ryobi, then the profit-maximizing price will be the same
as if the product was not sold exclusively by a single retailer.

Usenet wrote:

As a tech. for the past 14 years working for both DeWalt and Makita
and repairing ALL major manufacturers tools, and as a professional
woodworker, and now as a salesman and repair tech. for a local
distributor in the New Orleans area, I think I may have a little more
expertise in the power tool industry than you.

I'm sure you do.

Therefore, please explain to me how my "little" suppliers, such as
Coastal and Tools Plus, are selling ALL Makita, Porter Cable, DeWalt,
Delta, Bosch, etc... for lower prices than Home Depot and Lowes, if the
big boxes are selling said tools at a 6" markup?


You wrote this a few days back:

"Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists. NO BUSINESS CAN
OPERATE ON A 6% MARKUP!! "

Thanks,
Barry

John Grossbohlin wrote:
....
... Troy Built
filed for bankruptcy reorganization a few years ago because they gave such
big price concessions to Home Depot that they were cutting their own throat.
What they didn't understand was that not all business is worth having...
....

Another example is Rubbermaid which was forced into bankruptcy by their
deal w/ WalMart...when WM went to China, Rubbermaid couldn't match price
and lost the shelf space--then they could no longer support the
ramped-up manufacturing space and there they went...

Buy WalMart (and other boxeers) and support the Communist Capitalist
Chinese...

wrote in message
oups.com...
To the question of margin, Usenet clearly does not understand the
dynamics of a competitive marketplace. Let us assume that Ryobi has no
sustainable cost advantage over other manufacturers. The price
(margin) that can be charged at retail, therefore, is constrained by
the retail prices (margins) of competitive product. Having the
exclusive ability to sell a product does allow one to set prices freely
without fear of price-shopping on any exact model. Selling that
product into a competitive market against more widely-available lines
means that unless there is a premium value to the brandname, unlikely
in the case of Ryobi, then the profit-maximizing price will be the same
as if the product was not sold exclusively by a single retailer.

Another issue related to this discussion is the price pressure the big boxes
can exert on the manufacturers. While the spread between the big box's
retail price and other sellers cost may appear to be trivial (e.g., 5-10%)
it is likely the big box extracted price concessions from the manufactuers
that yields them a spread of 20% or more. Home Depot and WalMart are two
widely cited companies who exert this kind of pressure.

One example I'm familiar with due to geographic proximity press and knowing
one of the former executives is Troy Built garden equipment. Troy Built
filed for bankruptcy reorganization a few years ago because they gave such
big price concessions to Home Depot that they were cutting their own throat.
What they didn't understand was that not all business is worth having...
they were far better off selling through their traditional channels and
doing lower volume. As I understand it, doing the higher volume to meet the
HD contract demands raised their marginal costs and made them unprofitable.

John

On 17 Jan 2005 11:06:31 -0800, wrote:

To the question of margin, Usenet clearly does not understand the
dynamics of a competitive marketplace.

USENETknows all too well the dynamics of a competitive marketplace.

USENET only wants people, educated as they may be in matters of
ecconomics not very well educated in the knowledge of power tool
operation and construction, to know what they are buying.

USENET knows the problems Ridgid and Ryobi owners have with getting
their tool serviced and doesn't want or like to see people spend
premium dollar on an inferior tool.

USENET has also mentioned that these tools have their place. In the
hands of "yuppei housewives" as mentioned by one other poster to this
group.


Let us assume that Ryobi has no
sustainable cost advantage over other manufacturers.

RIDGID does not have a sustainable COST advantage over the other
manufacturers. RYOBI does. But, again, this is not the issue. The
issue at hand is:

Are RIDGID and RYOBI comperable tools? RIDGID in price? YES. In
quality? NO.

RYOBI is not in the same league. TOTALLY different animal.

The price (margin) that can be charged at retail, therefore, is constrained by
the retail prices (margins) of competitive product. Having the exclusive ability
to sell a product does allow one to set prices freely
without fear of price-shopping on any exact model. Selling that
product into a competitive market against more widely-available lines
means that unless there is a premium value to the brandname, unlikely
in the case of Ryobi, then the profit-maximizing price will be the same
as if the product was not sold exclusively by a single retailer.

Again, prices are not the issue. The issue here is:

WHICH IS THE BETTER BUY? $500.00 SPENT IN RIDGID TOOLS OR
$500.00 SPENT (ON EQUAL FUNCTIONING TOOLS) IN TOOLS BY MAKITA, DEWALT
OR PORTER CABLE?

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 19:25:44 GMT, B a r r y
wrote:

Usenet wrote:

As a tech. for the past 14 years working for both DeWalt and Makita
and repairing ALL major manufacturers tools, and as a professional
woodworker, and now as a salesman and repair tech. for a local
distributor in the New Orleans area, I think I may have a little more
expertise in the power tool industry than you.

I'm sure you do.

Therefore, please explain to me how my "little" suppliers, such as
Coastal and Tools Plus, are selling ALL Makita, Porter Cable, DeWalt,
Delta, Bosch, etc... for lower prices than Home Depot and Lowes, if the
big boxes are selling said tools at a 6" markup?


You wrote this a few days back:

"Home Depot sells the "select" tools from the major manufacturers i.e.
DeWalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Porter Cable using a 6% markup. This I know
because I sell tools and I see the price lists. NO BUSINESS CAN
OPERATE ON A 6% MARKUP!! "

Thanks,
Barry


Barry,

Two old sayings come to mind when it comes to you:

1) You can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink.

2) A fool and his money are soon parted.



Buy your Ridgid. Your money, not mine. Have fun!!

Your friend,
USENET

Usenet states:



Again, prices are not the issue. The issue here is:

WHICH IS THE BETTER BUY? $500.00 SPENT IN RIDGID TOOLS OR
$500.00 SPENT (ON EQUAL FUNCTIONING TOOLS) IN TOOLS BY MAKITA, DEWALT
OR PORTER CABLE?

Well, actually, maybe. The OP was looking for a table saw, something DeWalt and
Makita and PC make, but not necessarily in a type the OP wants. And if he does
want a job site saw, the Ridgid is actually at least as good as, and in many
respects better than, the ones turned out by the above three. Quality is
similar. There are more features. It is somewhat easier to use. Price is
sensible. When it comes to heavier saws, the DeWalt hybrid is a good one, and
comes, stripped, for nearly $900. The complete Ridgid TS3650 is a contractor's
saw with a built in mobile base that comes complete for a shade under $600. It
is about as good as any contractor's saw out there right now.

Are RIDGID and RYOBI comperable tools? RIDGID in price? YES. In
quality? NO.

I'm not sure what you're stating here. OK. They're comparable in price. Except
they're not. And certainly the Ridgid line of table saws differs from the Ryobi
line, so one wouldn't expect too great price similarities.

Are you stating that Ridgid is lesser in quality than Ryobi?

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

writes:

USENET has also mentioned that these tools have their place. In the
hands of "yuppei housewives" as mentioned by one other poster to this
group.

Watch it there, Buddy!
g
There's a lot of us "housewives" out there who use woodworking tools (and
do it quite successfully). It's been my experience that those
"housewives" are more discriminating as a whole than are their male
counterparts. Most us ladies tend to buy tools, of any kind, more
carefully being very aware they will last us for a long, long time. We,
more than men, tend to keep the same ol' reliables around for decades so
choose more carefully in the beginning. Men, as a rule, tend to want
bigger and better to keep up with their buddies. Nothing wrong with that
because they buy and manufacturers come up with better (hopefully!) to
sell to them and we all benefit.

There are, of course, exceptions to that, but looking at the wide
spectrum, that is the way it is.

Advertisers know this, especially auto-related, which is why it is so less
common see a "hunk" in car advertisements. They know most female buyers
aren't going to be swayed by a good-looking body/face to buy something
that's not best for their uses. Yet, women make more than 50 percent of
auto-buying decisions. Go figure.

All that said knowing full well that relatively few women will ever buy a
power tool. Heck, we don't need to; when the man gets itchy feet, he goes
out the door and we get all of his! (Of course, in my case, he rarely
used them anyway, he just bought them to do various projects that rarely
were ever done. I do very much appreciate that he looked for the best
quality we could afford at the time, and all U.S.A. made.)

Glenna
Never shopped at WM
and likely never will.

RIDGID does not have a sustainable COST advantage over the other
manufacturers. RYOBI does

I would love to know how Ryobi has a cost advantage over its
competitors. I think they sell a lesser product for a lower price.
For many, the product works fine and offeres good value, for others it
does not.

Again, prices are not the issue....$500.00 SPENT...

If prices are not the issue, then why is it the key component of your
argument? You have presupposed your conclusion in the above statement
- ie. the tools are "EQUAL FUNCTIONING" (no need to shout, by the way),
and they cost the same, so buy the brandname. The better buy depends
on the tool in question - not every Dewalt is a whizbang.

Most people outside the
powertool industry don't realize that Ridgid "powertools" are NOT
owned or operated by the Ridgid pipe tool company.

I do not think the general public is even aware of Ridgid as a plumbing
toolmaker, and they only see the tool at HD, so they are well aware
that it is a housebrand. In fact, this may lead to some cross-branding
synergies resulting in a cost advantage, since HD promotes Ridgid and
vice versa. One might argue that a company like Delta, which contracts
out manufacturing to plants all over, is less and less a brand name
that can be relied on as a badge of quality. Plus the fact that Black
& Decker has rolled it up, suggests that brand name will mean less and
less in the tool market.

READ THE REVIEWS!!!

Ridgid does well in Fine Woodworking reviews, often garnering the "Best
Buy" slot, with the jointer, the bandsaw, and the sander all doing
well.

Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores (are)
making (money) hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.

HD and Lowes have overall profit margins in the 6-7% range, which seems
decent, but does not reach the "hand over fist" threshold, IMO.
Remember that they constrain one another - they compete head to head,
unless you believe that they collude to dupe the foolish masses...

....

On 18 Jan 2005 09:50:30 GMT, otforme (Charlie Self)
wrote:

Usenet states:



Again, prices are not the issue. The issue here is:

WHICH IS THE BETTER BUY? $500.00 SPENT IN RIDGID TOOLS OR
$500.00 SPENT (ON EQUAL FUNCTIONING TOOLS) IN TOOLS BY MAKITA, DEWALT
OR PORTER CABLE?

Well, actually, maybe. The OP was looking for a table saw, something DeWalt and
Makita and PC make, but not necessarily in a type the OP wants. And if he does
want a job site saw, the Ridgid is actually at least as good as, and in many
respects better than, the ones turned out by the above three. Quality is
similar. There are more features. It is somewhat easier to use. Price is
sensible. When it comes to heavier saws, the DeWalt hybrid is a good one, and
comes, stripped, for nearly $900. The complete Ridgid TS3650 is a contractor's
saw with a built in mobile base that comes complete for a shade under $600. It
is about as good as any contractor's saw out there right now.

Are RIDGID and RYOBI comperable tools? RIDGID in price? YES. In
quality? NO.

I'm not sure what you're stating here. OK. They're comparable in price. Except
they're not. And certainly the Ridgid line of table saws differs from the Ryobi
line, so one wouldn't expect too great price similarities.

Are you stating that Ridgid is lesser in quality than Ryobi?

Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush


Look see for yourself. Here are a bunch of Ridgid owners and they
don't even like them.

http://www.ridgidforum.com/cgi-bin/u...;f=18;t=000642

On 18 Jan 2005 10:32:53 -0800, wrote:

RIDGID does not have a sustainable COST advantage over the other
manufacturers. RYOBI does

I would love to know how Ryobi has a cost advantage over its
competitors. I think they sell a lesser product for a lower price.
For many, the product works fine and offeres good value, for others it
does not.

Again, prices are not the issue....$500.00 SPENT...

If prices are not the issue, then why is it the key component of your
argument? You have presupposed your conclusion in the above statement
- ie. the tools are "EQUAL FUNCTIONING" (no need to shout, by the way),
and they cost the same, so buy the brandname. The better buy depends
on the tool in question - not every Dewalt is a whizbang.

Most people outside the
powertool industry don't realize that Ridgid "powertools" are NOT
owned or operated by the Ridgid pipe tool company.

I do not think the general public is even aware of Ridgid as a plumbing
toolmaker, and they only see the tool at HD, so they are well aware
that it is a housebrand. In fact, this may lead to some cross-branding
synergies resulting in a cost advantage, since HD promotes Ridgid and
vice versa. One might argue that a company like Delta, which contracts
out manufacturing to plants all over, is less and less a brand name
that can be relied on as a badge of quality. Plus the fact that Black
& Decker has rolled it up, suggests that brand name will mean less and
less in the tool market.

READ THE REVIEWS!!!

Ridgid does well in Fine Woodworking reviews, often garnering the "Best
Buy" slot, with the jointer, the bandsaw, and the sander all doing
well.

Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores (are)
making (money) hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.

HD and Lowes have overall profit margins in the 6-7% range, which seems
decent, but does not reach the "hand over fist" threshold, IMO.
Remember that they constrain one another - they compete head to head,
unless you believe that they collude to dupe the foolish masses...

...

Example of a $39.00 circular saw that sells at HD for $119.00
http://www.ridgid.com/CatalogDocs/R3200_301_RSHEET.pdf

Example of a $160.00 that HD whores out at $109.00
http://www.makita.com/res_tools/pdf/...wns/5007NB.pdf

Please note on each of these the type of bearing on the output shaft.

If this is the type of corners that Ridgid is willing to cut on a
circular saw, what will they do on a $600.00+ table saw?

Again, all you bozos obviously know ecconomics, tool operation, tool
sales, tool manufacturers, tool quailty, etc., etc., etc. better than
I. You know it so well that you obviously know a GREAT deal when you
see one. As I've stated before, your money not mine!!!

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:32:15 -0600, Usenet
wrote:

On 18 Jan 2005 10:32:53 -0800, wrote:

RIDGID does not have a sustainable COST advantage over the other
manufacturers. RYOBI does

I would love to know how Ryobi has a cost advantage over its
competitors. I think they sell a lesser product for a lower price.
For many, the product works fine and offeres good value, for others it
does not.

Again, prices are not the issue....$500.00 SPENT...

If prices are not the issue, then why is it the key component of your
argument? You have presupposed your conclusion in the above statement
- ie. the tools are "EQUAL FUNCTIONING" (no need to shout, by the way),
and they cost the same, so buy the brandname. The better buy depends
on the tool in question - not every Dewalt is a whizbang.

Most people outside the
powertool industry don't realize that Ridgid "powertools" are NOT
owned or operated by the Ridgid pipe tool company.

I do not think the general public is even aware of Ridgid as a plumbing
toolmaker, and they only see the tool at HD, so they are well aware
that it is a housebrand. In fact, this may lead to some cross-branding
synergies resulting in a cost advantage, since HD promotes Ridgid and
vice versa. One might argue that a company like Delta, which contracts
out manufacturing to plants all over, is less and less a brand name
that can be relied on as a badge of quality. Plus the fact that Black
& Decker has rolled it up, suggests that brand name will mean less and
less in the tool market.

READ THE REVIEWS!!!

Ridgid does well in Fine Woodworking reviews, often garnering the "Best
Buy" slot, with the jointer, the bandsaw, and the sander all doing
well.

Home Depot and Lowes and all the "Big Box" stores (are)
making (money) hand over fist at the expense of the un-educated and
uninformed public.

HD and Lowes have overall profit margins in the 6-7% range, which seems
decent, but does not reach the "hand over fist" threshold, IMO.
Remember that they constrain one another - they compete head to head,
unless you believe that they collude to dupe the foolish masses...

...

Example of a $39.00 circular saw that sells at HD for $119.00
http://www.ridgid.com/CatalogDocs/R3200_301_RSHEET.pdf

Example of a $160.00 that HD whores out at $109.00
http://www.makita.com/res_tools/pdf/...wns/5007NB.pdf

Please note on each of these the type of bearing on the output shaft.

If this is the type of corners that Ridgid is willing to cut on a
circular saw, what will they do on a $600.00+ table saw?

Again, all you bozos obviously know ecconomics, tool operation, tool
sales, tool manufacturers, tool quailty, etc., etc., etc. better than
I. You know it so well that you obviously know a GREAT deal when you
see one. As I've stated before, your money not mine!!!

Also note, there is no parts breakdown on the table saw!!
As a repair tech...that tells me something.

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:48:59 -0800, (Glenna Rose)
wrote:

writes:

USENET has also mentioned that these tools have their place. In the
hands of "yuppei housewives" as mentioned by one other poster to this
group.

Watch it there, Buddy!
g
There's a lot of us "housewives" out there who use woodworking tools (and
do it quite successfully). It's been my experience that those
"housewives" are more discriminating as a whole than are their male
counterparts. Most us ladies tend to buy tools, of any kind, more
carefully being very aware they will last us for a long, long time. We,
more than men, tend to keep the same ol' reliables around for decades so
choose more carefully in the beginning. Men, as a rule, tend to want
bigger and better to keep up with their buddies. Nothing wrong with that
because they buy and manufacturers come up with better (hopefully!) to
sell to them and we all benefit.

There are, of course, exceptions to that, but looking at the wide
spectrum, that is the way it is.

Advertisers know this, especially auto-related, which is why it is so less
common see a "hunk" in car advertisements. They know most female buyers
aren't going to be swayed by a good-looking body/face to buy something
that's not best for their uses. Yet, women make more than 50 percent of
auto-buying decisions. Go figure.

All that said knowing full well that relatively few women will ever buy a
power tool. Heck, we don't need to; when the man gets itchy feet, he goes
out the door and we get all of his! (Of course, in my case, he rarely
used them anyway, he just bought them to do various projects that rarely
were ever done. I do very much appreciate that he looked for the best
quality we could afford at the time, and all U.S.A. made.)

Glenna
Never shopped at WM
and likely never will.

Ma'am,

I am not the one who refered to anyone as a "yuppie housewife." I was
merely quoting a poster to my original response.

I agree with you. The ego kicks in when it comes to most of these guys
out here. This is why at least a couple of them are getting so
defensive over their Ridgid tools. Hey, it keeps Home Depot in
business. That must be a good thing in these guy's minds.
Unfortunately, they don't realize... Home Depot is slowly gaining
momentum in almost every aspect of home building and mantinance,
something some of these guys do for a living. Eventually, Home Depot
will be the only place you'll be able to buy your power tools,
gardening equipment, have a roof installed, windows installed, doors
installed, counter tops installed, carpet installed, tile installed,
etc. You can buy all your materials there all your tools there and if
you don't want to do that, they will do the work for you! These people
are patronizing their soon-to-be #1 competition! They're already HUGE,
they're getting bigger, and these people are fools not to see that.
Soon, they won't be competition for Home Depot, they'll be PART of
Home Depot's Pro Installation Team or whatever they call themselvs.

Some of my best customers are female. I appreciate their business.
And, I try my best to advise them on the best tool for the job. My
posts to this group were never intended to bash anyone (person, group
of people, or otherwise). They have been intended to inform people
that Ridgid tools are not all they are cracked up to be. I have stated
before that Ridgid tools have their place. And that is, right along
side the Craftsman, Harbor Freight, and Black and Decker tools that
sell in the lower price ranges. For the most part, they are cheaply
made tools. They do not hold up under the rigors of regular, heavy
use. There are tools out there that will.

I do not advise any of my customers (male or female) to buy Ridgid
tools. I don't advise my customers to buy Hitachi. Not because Hitachi
makes poor quality or over priced tool, but because in MY area Hitachi
does not have good LOCAL service. Hitachi, Makita, Dewalt, Bosch,
Porter Cable, Bostitch, in general, all make very good tools. Ridgid,
however, does not. They have very poor after the sale service. Their
service centers (all authorized - no factory) only get paid on their
labor once a year (this is why most repairs take a minimum of 3 months
to complete). They discontinue tools and within 4 years parts are no
longer available. Their only distributor is Home Depot.

Now, I don't know, but, is there the possibility that somewhere up the
corporate chain, one of the parent companies of Home Depot is also the
parent company of Ridgid?

My dad always told me not to put all my eggs into one basket. Yet,
it's awefully funny that Home Depot is the only distributor of Ridgid
and Ryobi tools. One BIG egg. One BIG basket.

bozos? BOZOS? Sir, I challenge you to a duel!

The arguments I have made here are not personal, please do not resort
to attacks when making your points, address the logic and facts of the
argument. Personally I own a range of equipment, from most of the
major manufacturers including Festool and Ryobi, each a good value for
the purposes to which I shall put them. I was merely addressing
factual and logical deficiencies in your missives, not advocating the
blind purchase of any particular brand. BTW, you clearly cherry picked
a negative thread off the Ridgid site, which looks suspiciously like
one you wrote. A cursory scan shows many positive reviews, as well.

writes:

Ma'am,

I am not the one who refered to anyone as a "yuppie housewife." I was
merely quoting a poster to my original response.

Silly, I knew you didn't. You merely brought it forward which is why the
devilment in me could not resist. Hopefully you noticed the grin directly
below it.

I apologize if seemed I was annoyed or offended; I wasn't.

I agree with you. The ego kicks in when it comes to most of these guys
out here. This is why at least a couple of them are getting so
defensive over their Ridgid tools. Hey, it keeps Home Depot in
business. That must be a good thing in these guy's minds.
Unfortunately, they don't realize... Home Depot is slowly gaining
momentum in almost every aspect of home building and mantinance,
something some of these guys do for a living. Eventually, Home Depot
will be the only place you'll be able to buy your power tools,
gardening equipment, have a roof installed, windows installed, doors
installed, counter tops installed, carpet installed, tile installed,
etc. You can buy all your materials there all your tools there and if
you don't want to do that, they will do the work for you! These people
are patronizing their soon-to-be #1 competition! They're already HUGE,
they're getting bigger, and these people are fools not to see that.
Soon, they won't be competition for Home Depot, they'll be PART of
Home Depot's Pro Installation Team or whatever they call themselvs.

I so agree with you! I do shop at Home Depot, but for only a very small
percentage of what I buy (and usually when everyone else is closed).
There are many reasons for that, the chief one being I like having folks I
can relay on stay in business. It's our local lumber stores that really
know what they are doing and consistently offer good advice. I've been
fortunate to never be treated in a condescending manner by our "local
boys" (not even 20+ years ago) which I cannot always say that for the big
name warehouse types. I'm always amazed at the knowledge each individual
has at the local stores; it's not just one area but many areas of
knowledge. Of course, I do have my favorites and have been known to leave
and revisit another time when one of those favorites is there.


Some of my best customers are female. I appreciate their business.
And, I try my best to advise them on the best tool for the job.

Perhaps I can represent at least some of my "sisters" in saying thank you.
:-)

My
posts to this group were never intended to bash anyone (person, group
of people, or otherwise).

It seems doubtful anyone would think differently.

One of the things I appreciate about this group is the acceptance of
everyone, including us gals. :-)

I am a utilitarian woodworker who will someday be a real woodworker, but
likely not for a while. Victoria's cedar chest is still many projects
away. I have lots more to relearn and learn before building heirlooms for
those two precious granddaughters. My advantage is that I know I'm
basically ignorant about much of what I need to know; the next advantage
is that I'm willing to learn. Then comes many hours of effort, probably
some failures and, hopefully, many successes.


I do not advise any of my customers (male or female) to buy Ridgid
tools. I don't advise my customers to buy Hitachi. Not because Hitachi
makes poor quality or over priced tool, but because in MY area Hitachi
does not have good LOCAL service. Hitachi, Makita, Dewalt, Bosch,
Porter Cable, Bostitch, in general, all make very good tools. Ridgid,
however, does not. They have very poor after the sale service. Their
service centers (all authorized - no factory) only get paid on their
labor once a year (this is why most repairs take a minimum of 3 months
to complete). They discontinue tools and within 4 years parts are no
longer available. Their only distributor is Home Depot.

Love your type of person! And, yes, even a good product can be "bad" if
it doesn't get support. Customer support is an important part of my
purchases. One of the reasons I am now primarily a Mac user is because of
the incredible local support of fellow Mac users in our area. P.M.U.G. is
awesome for that sort of thing. It's great to be able to call a stranger
and have him/her take the time to help which is what customer support is
all about.

I stopped shopping at Sears ten or more years ago where I had shopped for
decades because of an attitude about a defective weed cutter. The tool
lasted only ten minutes; I returned it. The second one lasted less than
half an hour. I returned it; the salesman told me they would not replace
it again! My response to that was not the most ladylike, but to
paraphrase: "You sold me a product and it *will* work or you *will*
refund my money. I did not, and will not, pay for a tool of any kind that
lasts less than an hour, which in this case two didn't last more than half
an hour." It was accompanied by a most direct and icy expression from me
to the little jerk, leaving no question even in that little moron's life
that he was not going to intimidate me. Additionally, I told him if they
would bother to purge the defective batch of weed cutters, folks like me
would have no need to return them repeatedly. Oh, well.

In fairness, I had to go there to get a part for my router a few months
ago. The salesman was extremely helpful. Not only did he have an
excellent customer attitude, but he also had a brain!

BTW, if you should ever want to relocate your business, consider our area
of the world!

Glenna

Usenet writes:

Now, I don't know, but, is there the possibility that somewhere up the
corporate chain, one of the parent companies of Home Depot is also the
parent company of Ridgid?

You got that right. You don't know.

My dad always told me not to put all my eggs into one basket. Yet,
it's awefully funny that Home Depot is the only distributor of Ridgid
and Ryobi tools. One BIG egg. One BIG basket.

That's a business decision for Ryobi's parent company, and they seem to like
it, so far.



Charlie Self
"One of the common denominators I have found is that expectations rise above
that which is expected." George W. Bush

On 18 Jan 2005 16:50:11 -0800,
wrote:
bozos? BOZOS? Sir, I challenge you to a duel!


Dualing Bozos?

Floppy shoes at twenty paces?

"Glenna Rose" wrote in message

Watch it there, Buddy!
g
There's a lot of us "housewives" out there who use woodworking tools (and
do it quite successfully).

Witness that you left out the "yuppie" part ... a big difference, and the
existence of whom can not be denied.

It's been my experience that those
"housewives" are more discriminating as a whole than are their male
counterparts. Most us ladies tend to buy tools, of any kind, more
carefully being very aware they will last us for a long, long time. We,
more than men, tend to keep the same ol' reliables around for decades so
choose more carefully in the beginning. Men, as a rule, tend to want
bigger and better to keep up with their buddies. Nothing wrong with that
because they buy and manufacturers come up with better (hopefully!) to
sell to them and we all benefit.

I'm thinking you've perhpas been watching way too many TV commercials.

Granted "doofus americanus" (you know, the guy with the constipated look on
his face, shaking his fist in the air, forcefully exclaiming "YEAH! whenever
some over paid sports figure scores) does exist and is rightly portrayed in
many of them these days .. but I seriously doubt the species buys that many
tools, and you will find about as many of them here as "yuppie housewifes".

There are, of course, exceptions to that, but looking at the wide
spectrum, that is the way it is.

For an alternate take, Google the countless tool buyng threads wRec down
through the years, most of them dripping with "discrmination".

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04