Greg O wrote:


"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Greg O wrote:

"Bob G." wrote in message
...

Got to be some reason Water to Air heat pumps are not the "thing"...



I think it has something to do with the ~$20,000 it takes to install
one!
Greg

That's quite high (for a closed loop system, anyway)...there was about a
$5k premium over a similarly efficient air/air heat pump which can be
hidden somewhat if the excating is all done when the house excation is
done rather than completely separately last I looked...

A loop system perhaps, but drill a couple wells!

I think you have a false impression of the way a groundwater-exchange heat
pump works. You don't have to dig wells per se, you just have to bury the
heat exchanger deep enough that it's in the ground water. You don't move
the water to the heat pump, you move the refrigerant to the water.

Of course if the shallowest ground water is 2000 feet down . . .

Greg

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"J. Clarke" wrote:

....
I think you have a false impression of the way a groundwater-exchange heat
pump works. You don't have to dig wells per se, you just have to bury the
heat exchanger deep enough that it's in the ground water. You don't move
the water to the heat pump, you move the refrigerant to the water.

In virtually any location it would be cheaper to dig the well...

There are many variations from fully closed loop in ground, bury the
loop in a lake, use one or two wells as source/reject water, simply put
the closed lood down a well bore...

I haven't looked recently but when researching prior to installing the
one I did, OSU (OK, not OH) had a very comprehensive site supporting
their research. TVA did at one time as well, but I think they've sorta'
finished the work they were doing...whether the site is still publicly
available or not I don't know...

Refigure your math.

48x48 would be 4x the 24x24 and 24x48 would be 2x.











On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:29:12 -0500, (J T)
wrote:

Thu, Dec 16, 2004, 5:17am (EST+5) (Rick)
My wife and I bought a house snip OK with the idea of building a
garage 2x the above size 48'x24' snip

Sounds good, but you're using the wrong math. Figure 2X the size
as 48"X48".



JOAT
Ask any question you please of the Gods. They do not have to answer.
- Ko'a Orto'o, Gnomic Utterances, II xvi

I would suggest 9' foot ceilings as a minimum. 4x8 sheet of plywood
on the diagonal is 8.9'

I would bet at sometime you would have a piece of plywood up on its
corner.

Consequently, I would suggest 10' ceilings since lumber and sheetrock
are sold either in that length or multiples.

If it were my dime, then I would use 12' ceilings. It will keep a big
room from feeling so closed in. Per my son the architect.



On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:39:53 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:17:24 GMT, Rick calmly
ranted:

My wife and I bought a house last year and are planning on building a
new garage. I figure a 24' x 24' size is close to the basic 2.5 car.
Fortunately I am blessed with being married to a wonderful woman that is
OK with the idea of building a garage 2x the above size 48'x24' with the
2nd 24'x24' area to be my shop. I live in the cold winter state of
Wisconsin and am looking for a decent garage heater that would work
great. I am considering running natural gas out to the garage and can
use that or I was thinking of istalling a woodburning stove. I like the
second idea (great way to get rid of scrap).

Run gas out there and pick up an old furnace from the local HVAC
places for pennies on the dollar. Wood stoves are for the birds
and neighbors hate them for their smog. With good filtering, the
unit could also be utilized as an air cleaner.

Make sure the ceilings are tall. I have 8-1/2" ceilings and am very
glad for that extra 6 inches when I play with plywood or other large
sheeting and longer boards.

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
Greg O wrote:


I think you have a false impression of the way a groundwater-exchange heat
pump works. You don't have to dig wells per se, you just have to bury the
heat exchanger deep enough that it's in the ground water. You don't move
the water to the heat pump, you move the refrigerant to the water.

Of course if the shallowest ground water is 2000 feet down . . .

Greg

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Um, no, I don't have any false impressions!
There are many ways to get heat out of the ground!

One of the last ground source heat pump system I helped install had about a
dozen heat pumps, ranging in size from around 1-1/2 ton to 20 tons. Water
was run through closed loop wells, about twenty of them IIRC. The wells were
drilled to aproximatly 100 feet deep.

I set up a couple heat pumps in a home a couple of summers ago where there
was a water well drilled, again to about 100 feet deep. It was a "pump and
dump" system. All the water that passed through the heat pumps was dumped in
the ditch by the house and ran into the wet lands 1/4 mile away.

Before I showed up the company I worked for installed some ground source
heat pumps that had a refrigeration loop in the ground. We have not
installed any of these in years. They are still avilable, but seem to be
pretty troublesome.
Pretty much all we see in this area, the water gets brought to the heat
pump, whether the water is a closed loop, pump and dump, or two wells, one
supply well, and one return well.
Greg

"Greg O" wrote in
:


"Bob G." wrote in message
...

Got to be some reason Water to Air heat pumps are not the "thing"...



I think it has something to do with the ~$20,000 it takes to install
one! Greg

In some jurisdictions they are not legal due to enviromental impact.
The posibility of raising the ground water tempurature was what was
stated in the article I read a few years ago. Cost can be prety high
to. I read a while ago that there was a firm a few years ago that would
bury lots of copper about 10 ft down. Then just hook that up to the
compressor of the heat pump and it worked great. But the repair cost
got too high. If something punctured the pipe it was a goner.

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:20:59 GMT, Big John
wrote:

I would suggest 9' foot ceilings as a minimum. 4x8 sheet of plywood
on the diagonal is 8.9'

I would bet at sometime you would have a piece of plywood up on its

If it were my dime, then I would use 12' ceilings. It will keep a big
room from feeling so closed in. Per my son the architect.

On the downside it will not allow you to feel nice and cozy....

My shop btw is downright cozy.... too cozy....

LOL

Nice to see that today even your own son charges a dime.... used to
be a nickle in my day....but my Dad was smart ...he never paid...
Bob

Bob G. wrote:

On the downside it will not allow you to feel nice and cozy....

My shop btw is downright cozy.... too cozy....

Nothin' says cozy like 6' ceilings.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

Silvan writes:


Bob G. wrote:

On the downside it will not allow you to feel nice and cozy....

My shop btw is downright cozy.... too cozy....

Nothin' says cozy like 6' ceilings.

Nah. They say "Bring on the aspirin" because you'll be hitting your head.

Charlie Self
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder
respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." George Orwell

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:52:24 -0500, Silvan
calmly ranted:

Bob G. wrote:

On the downside it will not allow you to feel nice and cozy....

My shop btw is downright cozy.... too cozy....

Nothin' says cozy like 6' ceilings.

Wouldn't our humps hit on those, Silvie? That's L O W !


--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown