Just visited someone with a heat pump, gotta question.
The outdoor temperature was in the 20's, I realize there
was precious little heat out there for it to relocate to inside.
So the strip heaters needed to be doing their thing. But when
the thermostat would initially call for heat, the blower would come
on, and the heat pump would obviously be attempting to do its thing
first, rather than immediately kicking in the heaters. So the unit is
blowing cold air.
Does a heat pump thermostat have a 2-stage sensor bulb, so that
when it gets colder in the house because the heat pump isn't finding
any heat out there, the heat strips get cut on? Or is there a time frame
that goes past before the strips get cut on? The blower was delivering
cold air. Obviously, any air coming out of the vents that was not being
heated would be felt as cold, simply becuse it was room-air temperature
moving past us.
The thermostat was a General Electric unit, and I'm generally not
impressed with GE stuff anyway. But my awareness of heat pump stuff is
extremely slim, and I need a better overview of how that works. I realize
that temperature setback is not seen as a good idea at night, because of
it being a heat pump, but it would be damned agravating to have a cold
breeze blowing past at night, too. Is this a typical problem encountered,
especially since there are units that sense outside temperature and cause
the
thermostat to bypass the attempt to drag heat from outside when it's below
30 degrees or so? Is the GE thermostat the bottom of the line? Is there a
reasonably priced unit that incorporates outdoor sensing and doesn't cause
the unit to be blowing cold air?
Educate me, please. Or give me some favorite URL's. Thanks ahead of time.

Recently, "Michael Baugh" created this
masterpiece for the newsgroup archives:

Just visited someone with a heat pump, gotta question.
The outdoor temperature was in the 20's, I realize there
was precious little heat out there for it to relocate to inside.
So the strip heaters needed to be doing their thing. But when
the thermostat would initially call for heat, the blower would come
on, and the heat pump would obviously be attempting to do its thing
first, rather than immediately kicking in the heaters. So the unit is
blowing cold air.
Does a heat pump thermostat have a 2-stage sensor bulb, so that
when it gets colder in the house because the heat pump isn't finding
any heat out there, the heat strips get cut on? Or is there a time frame
that goes past before the strips get cut on? The blower was delivering
cold air. Obviously, any air coming out of the vents that was not being
heated would be felt as cold, simply becuse it was room-air temperature
moving past us.
The thermostat was a General Electric unit, and I'm generally not
impressed with GE stuff anyway. But my awareness of heat pump stuff is
extremely slim, and I need a better overview of how that works. I realize
that temperature setback is not seen as a good idea at night, because of
it being a heat pump, but it would be damned agravating to have a cold
breeze blowing past at night, too. Is this a typical problem encountered,
especially since there are units that sense outside temperature and cause
the
thermostat to bypass the attempt to drag heat from outside when it's below
30 degrees or so? Is the GE thermostat the bottom of the line? Is there a
reasonably priced unit that incorporates outdoor sensing and doesn't cause
the unit to be blowing cold air?
Educate me, please. Or give me some favorite URL's. Thanks ahead of time.



When I buy electronics, I usually try to do a bit of research on
competitive models before making the purchase. I tend to like what I
find in GE products in terms of cost/features/quality. But, they make a
lot of stuff and don't always get it right.

I live in NC, and it's like 25F outside right now. My heat pump is
running almost constantly, but I haven't seen the stage 2 light come on
yet. If I crank the programmable thermostat up 4 degrees, the emergency
strip (stage 2) kicks in.

This doesn't answer your question directly, but it may give you some
comparative data to consider.


BE

This is Turtle.

Reply Below in Parts.




"Michael Baugh" wrote in message
.. .
Just visited someone with a heat pump, gotta question.
The outdoor temperature was in the 20's, I realize there
was precious little heat out there for it to relocate to inside.
So the strip heaters needed to be doing their thing. But when
the thermostat would initially call for heat, the blower would come
on, and the heat pump would obviously be attempting to do its thing
first, rather than immediately kicking in the heaters. So the unit is
blowing cold air.
Does a heat pump thermostat have a 2-stage sensor bulb, so that
when it gets colder in the house because the heat pump isn't finding
any heat out there, the heat strips get cut on? Or is there a time frame
that goes past before the strips get cut on? The blower was delivering
cold air. Obviously, any air coming out of the vents that was not being
heated would be felt as cold, simply becuse it was room-air temperature
moving past us.

The installer can have the heat pump come on or go off at anytime or have
the electric back up heat come on at anytime he wants it to by the way he
sets up the 24 volt control circuits. Yes, 95% of all heat pump thermostat
have a second stage heat on then set to come on 3 ºF colder than the Room
set temperature. If he wired it up to do so.
There is outdoor thermostats that can turn on the Electric back up heat and
the heat pump to run together atany temperature he wants or it can turn the
heat pump off at certain tempratures outside and just run the electric heat.
Anything you described here as to not to your liking, a good Heat Pump
installer can make it do anything you want it to do at any time or at any
temperature outside or inside.


The thermostat was a General Electric unit, and I'm generally not
impressed with GE stuff anyway. But my awareness of heat pump stuff is
extremely slim, and I need a better overview of how that works. I realize
that temperature setback is not seen as a good idea at night, because of
it being a heat pump, but it would be damned agravating to have a cold
breeze blowing past at night, too. Is this a typical problem encountered,
especially since there are units that sense outside temperature and cause
the
thermostat to bypass the attempt to drag heat from outside when it's below
30 degrees or so?

Well Here is your set up to stop this problem. Set outdoor thermostat to
just turn heat pump off at 30ºF or less out side and just run the electric
strips during this time. When the temperature goes above 30ºF outside. the
heat pump will come back on and the Back up electric strips will go back to
second stage heat of 3 degrees behind the set point of the thermostat. now
the temperature outside goes under 30ºF you have hot air. Above 30ºf you
just have warm air from the heat pump. now you can set the temperature to do
this way on up to say 50 degree outside and have back up come on and turn
heat pump off. Now there is 6 other ways to set this up but i chose this one
for it was most commonly used.



Is the GE thermostat the bottom of the line?


G/E / Trane / American Standard are all the same brand now days and they
have about 25% of all stuff sold in the US with their name on it. I have
been told they are fair stuff but they truely are the highest priced. i
would say just fair stuff.


Is there a
reasonably priced unit that incorporates outdoor sensing and doesn't cause
the unit to be blowing cold air?

YES , Every Brand sold in the USA because the heat pump manufactor makes all
the system just about 99% the same way and the installer will decide to wire
it to do what you want it to do. ALL the controlling system is installed by
the installer and the factory just makes the pieces to put together to do
what you want. The Cheapest piece of HVAC equipment in the hands of a good
installer can make it run like a Rolls Royce. Now remember one thing here.
These good installer will not be the cheapest bidder. The Rookies will be
the Lowest bidders.


Educate me, please. Or give me some favorite URL's. Thanks ahead of time.


My GOD, Have you got about 2 years to study the system and you might come
work for me for a couple years and you will understand the system pretty
good. If Not you will just have to try to ask me or others questions and
piece it together. Now most URL's that are out there are there to sell you
something and it just stear you to buy something and not to understand the
systems. I will run a little research to see and let you know.

TURTLE



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I use a Janitrol (I know, thin coils, etc.) heat pump to supplement my
gas furnace in Minnesota. I've had it for twelve years now and haven't
had a problem with it yet... It uses a outdoor thermostat located in
the condenser to cut out the hp to the furnace. I set it at 33
degrees, below that the hp will run too long, imo. Of course being in
the middle of Winter here in the North, it isn't being used at all. We
have had some warm winters though when I have used it on/off all
winter. I wouldn't have it at all if were not for the off-peak
electric rate I receive, it was just raised to 3.8 cents per
killowatt/hr. The first increase in electric since I have lived here.
(12 yrs)
I run the air in the summer as much as I want, very inexpensive when
using the hp in that way. They also let me wire my furnace into the
off-peak meter so all the electricity consumed by it is at the low
rate. btw, the normal rate is 7.8 cent per Kwh.

"Michael Baugh" wrote in message ...

Just visited someone with a heat pump, gotta question.
The outdoor temperature was in the 20's, I realize there
was precious little heat out there for it to relocate to inside.
So the strip heaters needed to be doing their thing. But when

There's actually a lot heat in the air in the 20's. Just not enough to
offset the heat loss from the house. I have a 2.5-ton unit that is
rated for 18000-19000 BTU at 17°, depending on the blower coil it's
matched with. Rated for 28000-29000 at 47°. I have R22 and understand
R410 does an even better job in bitter cold. Installers are
constrained in sizing because the units also handle A/C.

the thermostat would initially call for heat, the blower would come
on, and the heat pump would obviously be attempting to do its thing
first, rather than immediately kicking in the heaters. So the unit is
blowing cold air.

They tend to move more air, at a cooler temperature, than a furnace.
If the temperature at the register isn't above ambient then there's a
problem with the system.

Does a heat pump thermostat have a 2-stage sensor bulb, so that
when it gets colder in the house because the heat pump isn't finding
any heat out there, the heat strips get cut on? Or is there a time frame
that goes past before the strips get cut on?

Depends how it's set up and what the backup heat source is. Can be
time, temperature rise, outside temp, etc. They also use backup if and
when they defrost. My own system looks at the temperature of the air
coming off the blower and kicks the strips in if necessary.

Thanks for the offer, but it looks like you and others answered
my questions pretty doggone well. Including the advice that she
needs to call the HVAC folks. And your reminder about the rookies
being the less expensive.
Medicine isn't be the only field where they refer to the business as
"practice".

TURTLE wrote in message
...
.. I will run a little research to see and let you know.

On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 01:37:15 -0500, "Michael Baugh"
wrote:


The thermostat was a General Electric unit, and I'm generally not
impressed with GE stuff anyway. But my awareness of heat pump stuff is
extremely slim, and I need a better overview of how that works. I realize
that temperature setback is not seen as a good idea at night, because of
it being a heat pump, but it would be damned agravating to have a cold
breeze blowing past at night, too. Is this a typical problem encountered,
especially since there are units that sense outside temperature and cause
the
thermostat to bypass the attempt to drag heat from outside when it's below
30 degrees or so? Is the GE thermostat the bottom of the line? Is there a
reasonably priced unit that incorporates outdoor sensing and doesn't cause
the unit to be blowing cold air?
Educate me, please. Or give me some favorite URL's. Thanks ahead of time.


You didn't mention what brand and model heat pump you have and
replacing an indoor thermostat most likely won't do a thing for you.

Many systems like the older Carriers have an adjustable thermostat in
the condensor unit itself. I do know there was a large batch that got
out that had the degree decals installed ass backwards. Setting the
dial to 40 degrees was actually on the other side of the scale closer
to 0 degrees. Once set correctly those thermostats are very reliable.
Also if the indoor tstat is bumped up past a certain point the gas
furnace (used in my area) will kick in for rapid heat up until the
indoor temperature gets within a few degrees of setpoint.

Other units (newer) have remote sensors that go to control boards or
thermostats. Sensors can be tested by checking resistance at a
certain temperature. The indoor thermostats will usually let you see
the outdoor temp. by pressing a certain combination of buttons.
One other point is that if the sun is directly hitting the remote
sensor it may register 20 degrees or higher than the real outdoor air
temperature.

Heat pump set ups can get a little complicated and in all honesty you
could make things much worse than they already are...you will probably
save yourself a lot of grief by telling your friend to call an HVAC
service tech.

George