Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts? Here's the link to it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4182602

"Darin" wrote in message
...
Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts? Here's the link to it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4182602

Saw stop has been the subject of much discussion around these parts. It is
also the subject of an article in the latest Fine Woodworking magazine. The
video on the page you've linked to is impressive. There is no doubt that
the device works. I doubt if it will ever become law, however.

Frank

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:15:20 -0600, Darin
wrote:

Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday?

Bizarrely, there was a posting in alt.obituaries about it

Hmmmm... Indeed there is. Serves me right for waiting so long to look at
the latest issue :-P

Frank Ketchum wrote:
"Darin" wrote in message
...

Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts? Here's the link to it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4182602


Saw stop has been the subject of much discussion around these parts. It is
also the subject of an article in the latest Fine Woodworking magazine. The
video on the page you've linked to is impressive. There is no doubt that
the device works. I doubt if it will ever become law, however.

Frank

Darin wrote:

Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts? Here's the link to it:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4182602

I read about this in Tools of the Trade about a year ago. The
inventor (Steve Gass) actually put his own finger into a saw blade
to prove its effectiveness. Said he only got a scratch.

I have many times looked at my TS blade while it was running and
thought about that. That is faith in your equipment.

I have never been cut by a table saw. If I could use the
technology, I think I would rather have it on my miter saw. I have
my hands much closer to the blade on that than anything else.

Another thing to think about: What if you needed to rip some ball
park franks sometime? Could you disable it?

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

"Frank Ketchum" wrote in message
news:xVOtd.11824
Saw stop has been the subject of much discussion around these parts.
There is no doubt that
the device works. I doubt if it will ever become law, however.

Frank

Does No ONE care about the thousands of hot dogs that have been slaughtered
by this device?!
You people are so insensitive.

-j

Robert Allison wrote in
:

snip
Another thing to think about: What if you needed to rip some ball
park franks sometime? Could you disable it?


Isn't that why you need a bandsaw?

Patriarch

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 05:09:48 GMT, Robert Allison
wrote:


I have never been cut by a table saw. If I could use the
technology, I think I would rather have it on my miter saw. I have
my hands much closer to the blade on that than anything else.


But it looks like the key point here is that the blade withdraws.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 07:15:40 +0000, wrote:

Robert Allison wrote in
:

snip
Another thing to think about: What if you needed to rip some ball park
franks sometime? Could you disable it?


Isn't that why you need a bandsaw?

Nah, you don't need anything that big for hot dogs. A scrollsaw will do
nicely. You only need the bandsaw for the Thanksgiving turkey and
Christmas ham.

--
Joe Wells

GregP wrote:

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 05:09:48 GMT, Robert Allison
wrote:


I have never been cut by a table saw. If I could use the
technology, I think I would rather have it on my miter saw. I have
my hands much closer to the blade on that than anything else.

But it looks like the key point here is that the blade withdraws.

No, it does not withdraw, it stops the blade instantaneously
(almost). It is like a super fast brake. It has been a while since
I saw the article, but IIRC the device has to be replaced once it
has been activated. That may have changed.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:43:02 GMT, Robert Allison
wrote:
GregP wrote:


But it looks like the key point here is that the blade withdraws.

No, it does not withdraw, it stops the blade instantaneously
(almost).

It does both, destroying the blade in the process.

Watch the video:
http://www.sawstop.com/howworks.htm

Barry

"Robert Allison" wrote in message

If I could use the
technology, I think I would rather have it on my miter saw. I have
my hands much closer to the blade on that than anything else.

My sentiments, exactly.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:15:20 -0600, Darin wrote:
Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts?

Let me guess - they did a demo, and said it's shipping "real soon now",
right? 5 years ago when I first saw that, it was exciting. Now, it's
just another piece of vaporware, until I see one I can buy.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 02:55:18 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:15:20 -0600, Darin
wrote:

Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday?

Bizarrely, there was a posting in alt.obituaries about it

What's even more bizarre, is that Andy is apparently watching alt.obituaties.

On 9 Dec 2004 16:28:15 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

What's even more bizarre, is that Andy is apparently watching alt.obituaties.

Better to be on the outside, looking in

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:57:57 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote:
On 9 Dec 2004 16:28:15 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

What's even more bizarre, is that Andy is apparently watching alt.obituaties.

Better to be on the outside, looking in

So, just trying to plan your day then? If you're in there, no point
in making that 10:15 meeting?

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:15:20 -0600, Darin wrote:
Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts?

Let me guess - they did a demo, and said it's shipping "real soon now",
right? 5 years ago when I first saw that, it was exciting. Now, it's
just another piece of vaporware, until I see one I can buy.

Here you go. There is a click-to-order link right on this page:
http://www.sawstop.com/Contractor_Price_List.htm

Actually, on the NPR piece they interviewed at least one or two
people who had them in use.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:20:15 +0000 (UTC), wrote:
Dave Hinz wrote:

Let me guess - they did a demo, and said it's shipping "real soon now",
right? 5 years ago when I first saw that, it was exciting. Now, it's
just another piece of vaporware, until I see one I can buy.

Here you go. There is a click-to-order link right on this page:
http://www.sawstop.com/Contractor_Price_List.htm

But is it shipping to consumers?

Actually, on the NPR piece they interviewed at least one or two
people who had them in use.

Yes, I understand that prototypes exist. Unless something changed
very recently, that's _all_ that's out there. This is the very
definition of "vaporware".

"Ba r r y" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 14:43:02 GMT, Robert Allison
wrote:
GregP wrote:


But it looks like the key point here is that the blade withdraws.

No, it does not withdraw, it stops the blade instantaneously
(almost).

It does both, destroying the blade in the process.

Watch the video:
http://www.sawstop.com/howworks.htm

Barry

IIRC, due to the material used in the brake and the speed of the blade, the
two actually fuse.

Joe

Usually vaporware does not exist even in prototype. This is more like
beta testing...

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:20:15 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:


Let me guess - they did a demo, and said it's shipping "real soon now",
right? 5 years ago when I first saw that, it was exciting. Now, it's
just another piece of vaporware, until I see one I can buy.

Here you go. There is a click-to-order link right on this page:
http://www.sawstop.com/Contractor_Price_List.htm


But is it shipping to consumers?


Actually, on the NPR piece they interviewed at least one or two
people who had them in use.


Yes, I understand that prototypes exist. Unless something changed
very recently, that's _all_ that's out there. This is the very
definition of "vaporware".

wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 20:15:20 -0600, Darin
wrote:
Did anyone else catch the NPR piece on the SawStop TS yesterday? Any
thoughts?

Let me guess - they did a demo, and said it's shipping "real soon now",
right? 5 years ago when I first saw that, it was exciting. Now, it's
just another piece of vaporware, until I see one I can buy.

Here you go. There is a click-to-order link right on this page:
http://www.sawstop.com/Contractor_Price_List.htm

And if you check the link that gets you there, it says "preorder". In other
words you give the guy your money and maybe he'll send you a saw one day
and maybe he'll send himself to Rio instead.

Actually, on the NPR piece they interviewed at least one or two
people who had them in use.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

wrote:

Dave Hinz wrote:
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 19:20:15 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Actually, on the NPR piece they interviewed at least one or two
people who had them in use.

Yes, I understand that prototypes exist. Unless something changed
very recently, that's _all_ that's out there. This is the very
definition of "vaporware".

The people interviewed who had them were contractors and/or
cabinet shops. The impression I got was they had bought
them and were using them. Now a couple were waiting for
delivery also, so I don't know if there are truly more
than a few early production/prototypes out there or what.
I don't really care, but it *sounded* like they were in
production.

Well of course it did. Snake oil salesmen are good at making things sound
better than they are.


Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Ba r r y wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:59:50 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote:

Ba r r y wrote:

I've bandsawed . . . hard drives...

Inquiring minds want to know more! Sounds like there is a story here!
g

-- Mark

When I dispose of an old computer, I just want to be SURE the data is
unrecoverable. G Platters in multiple pieces, disposed in multiple
places can help.

I'd chuck 'em in the lathe or drill press and apply 40 grit to the platters
until there was no trace of coating left.

Barry

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

GregP wrote:

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 05:09:48 GMT, Robert Allison
wrote:


I have never been cut by a table saw. If I could use the
technology, I think I would rather have it on my miter saw. I have
my hands much closer to the blade on that than anything else.


But it looks like the key point here is that the blade withdraws.

On the table saws it does but the key point is that it stops almost
instantaneously. He's touting the thing for all saws, not just table saws.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

J wrote:



'
"Dave Hinz" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 11:18:55 -0800, J wrote:

I've heard that, but never seen an actual cite for it.**If*you*could
point me to one, I'd be happy ...

Be happy:


http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...3/03-17327.htm

This akamaized URL does not work.

It does for me. Just checked it and it still does. I clicked on it so I'm
very comfortable making that statement.

The content versioning part of the URL
has been changed because gpo.gov's site has superceded that version.**In
almost every case, you can get the information anyway by shortening the
URL by taking the Akamai-specific stuff out of the URL and starting
with edocket.... in this case.

Yup, verified it, and it works.**(I*brought*Akamai*to*our*company's
web delivery systems, so I'm very comfortable making that statement).

Right.**"We*want*you*to*make*this*mandatory*to*hel p*the*people
(but oh by the way we hold the patent)".**Lovely.

If it weren't for the please give us a monopoly so we can make you safer
part I think they would be held in higher regard. As it is, their true
colors shine through.

Little known fact--the antiskid braking system used on many cars these days
is based on a Mercedes-Benz patent that Mercedes placed in the public
domain for the good of society.

He'd be much more impressive if he did something like that. And since
nobody wants to make the damn thing but him anyway, his financial risk is
small unless it takes off in which case he's going to be rich anyway if he
doesn't screw up.

-j

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Ba r r y wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:59:50 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
wrote:

Ba r r y wrote:

I've bandsawed . . . hard drives...

Inquiring minds want to know more! Sounds like there is a story here! g

-- Mark

When I dispose of an old computer, I just want to be SURE the data is
unrecoverable. G Platters in multiple pieces, disposed in multiple
places can help.

Barry

They are great for skeet shooting.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

"J. Clarke" wrote in message
He'd be much more impressive if he did something like that. And since
nobody wants to make the damn thing but him anyway, his financial risk is
small unless it takes off in which case he's going to be rich anyway if he
doesn't screw up.

-j

I think I read it here that the Saw Stop folks are lawyers by trade. And
that there is more than one.

-j

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:10:59 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:

Little known fact--the antiskid braking system used on many cars these days
is based on a Mercedes-Benz patent that Mercedes placed in the public
domain for the good of society.

Mercedes did the same thing with their "crumple zone" impact absorbing
technology, as Saab did decades ago with their dual-diagonal hydraulic
braking patents.

He'd be much more impressive if he did something like that. And since
nobody wants to make the damn thing but him anyway, his financial risk is
small unless it takes off in which case he's going to be rich anyway if he
doesn't screw up.

Yup. It's clear that Sawstop's motivation is for other than the public
good. Hell, one could argue that by patenting it and failing to provide
a product, they're _preventing_ public good, since they won't allow
competant manufacturers to build 'em.

I'd might be really peeved if I did something stupid and ended up with a chuck of aluminum welded to an expensive carbide tipped blade...but then, I probably wouldn't be worrying about the blade much as I scrambled to find half of my finger in the bag of my dust collector!

Improvements in safety technology are generally a good thing, until the goverment starts mandating their use.

One day, all that is legislated to protect us from ourselves is going to upset the delicate balance of natural selection!

makesawdust notes:

Improvements in safety technology are generally a good thing, until the
goverment starts mandating their use.

One day, all that is legislated to protect us from ourselves is going
to upset the delicate balance of natural selection!

Probably not. When things get more idiotproof, we raise a higher grade of
idiot.

Charlie Self
"Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." Mark Twain

In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Little known fact--the antiskid braking system used on many cars these days
is based on a Mercedes-Benz patent that Mercedes placed in the public
domain for the good of society.

He'd be much more impressive if he did something like that. And since
nobody wants to make the damn thing but him anyway, his financial risk is
small unless it takes off in which case he's going to be rich anyway if he
doesn't screw up.

Of course if he gives up the patents and it takes off, the current saw
manufacturers would simply add it to their product line and he'd be
totally left out.

--
Hank Gillette

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yup. It's clear that Sawstop's motivation is for other than the public
good. Hell, one could argue that by patenting it and failing to provide
a product, they're _preventing_ public good, since they won't allow
competant manufacturers to build 'em.

He offered to license it to the manufacturers and they blew him off. How
is that not letting them build them?

--
Hank Gillette

In article , "J"
wrote:

I think I read it here that the Saw Stop folks are lawyers by trade. And
that there is more than one.

The main guy is a patent lawyer with a PhD in physics.

--
Hank Gillette

In article ,
makesawdust wrote:

Improvements in safety technology are generally a good thing, until the
goverment starts mandating their use.


How many cars would have air bags or seat belts today, if the government
hadn't made them mandatory? In fact, the air bag technology languished
for several years, essentially unused until they were made mandatory?

It's a nice thought that the market will support safety devices on their
own merits, but history has shown that not to be the case. If not for
the government regulations, how much safety would there be in the
average commercial wood shop?

--
Hank Gillette

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:01:07 -0500, Hank Gillette
wrote:

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yup. It's clear that Sawstop's motivation is for other than the public
good. Hell, one could argue that by patenting it and failing to provide
a product, they're _preventing_ public good, since they won't allow
competant manufacturers to build 'em.

He offered to license it to the manufacturers and they blew him off. How
is that not letting them build them?


that's his side of the story. we aready know that sawstop is ready to
play dirty to get their way.

Hank Gillette asks:

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yup. It's clear that Sawstop's motivation is for other than the public
good. Hell, one could argue that by patenting it and failing to provide
a product, they're _preventing_ public good, since they won't allow
competant manufacturers to build 'em.

He offered to license it to the manufacturers and they blew him off. How
is that not letting them build them?

And, one can add, how much of what is good for the public has come from people
working "for the public good"?

The guy wants to make a buck off some years of hard work, which makes sense to
me. But trying to get the government to force use turned me off.

Charlie Self
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire." Sir Winston
Churchill

"Hank Gillette" wrote in message

How many cars would have air bags or seat belts today, if the government
hadn't made them mandatory?

Nope. The "government" didn't make them mandatory, the people did.

Problem is, for every action there's a reaction. We've now proven that the
more you protect fools from themselves, the more fools you will have.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:59:23 -0500, Hank Gillette wrote:
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote:

Little known fact--the antiskid braking system used on many cars these days
is based on a Mercedes-Benz patent that Mercedes placed in the public
domain for the good of society.

Of course if he gives up the patents and it takes off, the current saw
manufacturers would simply add it to their product line and he'd be
totally left out.

Google for "licensing". He could let others manufacture it and take a cut
from each sale, nothing new or novel there.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:01:07 -0500, Hank Gillette wrote:
In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

Yup. It's clear that Sawstop's motivation is for other than the public
good. Hell, one could argue that by patenting it and failing to provide
a product, they're _preventing_ public good, since they won't allow
competant manufacturers to build 'em.

He offered to license it to the manufacturers and they blew him off. How
is that not letting them build them?

Was that before, or after, he tried to force all of them to put the
device on their saws? If after, I can see why they'd tell him to
pound sand.

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 00:05:26 -0500, Hank Gillette wrote:
In article ,
makesawdust wrote:

Improvements in safety technology are generally a good thing, until the
goverment starts mandating their use.


How many cars would have air bags or seat belts today, if the government
hadn't made them mandatory? In fact, the air bag technology languished
for several years, essentially unused until they were made mandatory?

Airbag technology was implemented in the US before it was ready. Seat
belts, on the other hand, were in use in the 1940s by some, but weren't
mandated until much later. Some European makes had 3-point belts in all
4 seating positions back in the early '60s, which wasn't mandated in the
US until at least 15 years later.

Car companies who felt that safety was a valid design requirement
were using these things before they were mandatory. I'm not sure your
point holds water.

It's a nice thought that the market will support safety devices on their
own merits, but history has shown that not to be the case. If not for
the government regulations, how much safety would there be in the
average commercial wood shop?

Nobody forces me to wear eye and ear protection when using certain
machines, but I do. So, I'd say "quite a bit;what's your point"?