Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

SOB!! Some other states have done thyis already, did you wreckers move
out of those states, or what?

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents
that can last long enough to get that far up in the atmosphere.

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone? Never!

Where can I sign up against this stupid law!?!?

James

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone?

Many of us have been using "water borne" finishing products for years
because of health concerns (ours) and these products work well if not better
than solvent based products.

It's time to take a step forward.

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...
Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

SOB!! Some other states have done thyis already, did you wreckers move
out of those states, or what?

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents
that can last long enough to get that far up in the atmosphere.

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone? Never!

Where can I sign up against this stupid law!?!?

James

"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...
Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

SOB!! Some other states have done thyis already, did you wreckers move
out of those states, or what?

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents
that can last long enough to get that far up in the atmosphere.

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone? Never!

Where can I sign up against this stupid law!?!?

James


it may not hurt the ozone, but the states are probably more worried about
the smog instead, given the epa restrictions on states.

Its all about being able to set up more cop jobs to chase the
oil based paint and stain bootleggers, similar to prohibition...
--
Chris Richmond | I don't speak for Intel & vise versa

"brocpuffs" writes:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

Welcome to the real world.

If you want something that will really rot your shorts, be a sailor or power
boater.

"Bottom paint" on a boat is a misnomer. It is not really a paint but rather
a poisonous coating deigned to keep critters from attaching them selves to
the bottom of the boat.

Basic problem:

The good bottom paints have been banned.

The replacements are not nearly as good.

Result:

More of the poor performance products are required which ends up adding more
pollution to the environment than if you had used the good stuff in the
first place.

Save us from the well intended, but sometimes misguided.

Lew

"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

????
There's an LD50 associated with Acetone. It sure as hell ain't fun nor
helpful to inhale. Are they worried about the Ozone layer or just trying to
make some progress now that waterborne finishes are arguably as good as ...
?

Australopithecus scobis wrote:

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:28:16 -0500, brocpuffs wrote:

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents

Sorry, wrong information. Chlorofluorocarbons mess up the stratospheric
ozone layer. That's "ozone = O3". For some reason, the brown crud in the
lower tropospher, which does contain some O3, is called "ozone."
Petrochemicals of various kinds are photoreactive. So, come a hot summer
day, you get *cough* that nasty brown haze.

For the doubters, remember that what may not be a big problem when the
population was small and dispersed is indeed a big problem when the
population is large and concentrated. Pack several million people
together, each releasing a teeny tiny amount of these chemicals, and
voila, you have a problem.

In Los Angeles or other areas prone to temperature inversions and still air
you have a problem. In the rest of the world much less so.


--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone?

Many of us have been using "water borne" finishing products for years
because of health concerns (ours) and these products work well if not
better
than solvent based products.

It's time to take a step forward.



Water based clear finishes are horrible (imo). Even high gloss is poor at
best.
When my clients see it compared to oil based clear coats
they always choose the oil. I'll never put something that looks like milk on
my products.
That being said, water based clear coat for floors is acceptable when time
and smell are a concern.






--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...
Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

SOB!! Some other states have done thyis already, did you wreckers move
out of those states, or what?

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents
that can last long enough to get that far up in the atmosphere.

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone? Never!

Where can I sign up against this stupid law!?!?

James

I'll never put something that looks like milk on
my products.

You haven't take the time to look at quality water borne product, have you?

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Battleax" wrote in message
...

"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone?

Many of us have been using "water borne" finishing products for years
because of health concerns (ours) and these products work well if not
better
than solvent based products.

It's time to take a step forward.



Water based clear finishes are horrible (imo). Even high gloss is poor at
best.
When my clients see it compared to oil based clear coats
they always choose the oil. I'll never put something that looks like milk
on
my products.
That being said, water based clear coat for floors is acceptable when time
and smell are a concern.






--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...
Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

SOB!! Some other states have done thyis already, did you wreckers move
out of those states, or what?

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents
that can last long enough to get that far up in the atmosphere.

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone? Never!

Where can I sign up against this stupid law!?!?

James

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:22:08 -0600, Australopithecus scobis
wrote:

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:28:16 -0500, brocpuffs wrote:

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents

Sorry, wrong information. Chlorofluorocarbons mess up the stratospheric
ozone layer. That's "ozone = O3". For some reason, the brown crud in the
lower tropospher, which does contain some O3, is called "ozone."
Petrochemicals of various kinds are photoreactive. So, come a hot summer
day, you get *cough* that nasty brown haze.

The chlorofluorocarbons are the main culprit re the OZONE layer, which
is how the media described the problems oil based materials cause.

The brown crud is smog, not ozone, do other people really call it
ozone? Shame on them for such misinformation. Smog is a different
breed of cat, not at all better, but different. I believe automobile
and factory emissions are a real major cause of this.

James

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:56:47 GMT, "patrick conroy"
wrote:


"brocpuffs" wrote in message
.. .

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

????
There's an LD50 associated with Acetone. It sure as hell ain't fun nor
helpful to inhale. Are they worried about the Ozone layer or just trying to
make some progress now that waterborne finishes are arguably as good as ...

Everything has an LD50. Water, too. Does not mean water is toxic
normally.

While you're at it, what IS the LD50 of acetone, compared to other
Volatile 0rganic Solvents?

This argument on toxicity of acetone came up before, and is nonsense,
my man.

James

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:06:53 -0500, "Rumpty"
wrote:

I'll never put something that looks like milk on
my products.

You haven't take the time to look at quality water borne product, have you?

I have tried them, not many because I feel they are vastly inferior to
oil based products. Most people still do.

A step forward or a step back? Kind of an individual thing, but this
legislation is upper US and way too general.

I guess water based products will be good on chipboard, particle board
and hardboard. Those are all such a step forward, aren't they?

James

On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 21:08:07 -0500, "Battleax"
wrote:


"Rumpty" wrote in message
...
Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone?

Many of us have been using "water borne" finishing products for years
because of health concerns (ours) and these products work well if not
better
than solvent based products.

It's time to take a step forward.



Water based clear finishes are horrible (imo). Even high gloss is poor at
best.
When my clients see it compared to oil based clear coats
they always choose the oil. I'll never put something that looks like milk on
my products.
That being said, water based clear coat for floors is acceptable when time
and smell are a concern.

I've never seen or tried water based clear coat, but I've gone mostly
to water based stains...
I seem to get the same results as oil based and easier cleanup..

It would be a bitch trying to use tung water or danish water, though..

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 00:41:14 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"brocpuffs" writes:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

Welcome to the real world.

If you want something that will really rot your shorts, be a sailor or power
boater.

"Bottom paint" on a boat is a misnomer. It is not really a paint but rather
a poisonous coating deigned to keep critters from attaching them selves to
the bottom of the boat.

Basic problem:

The good bottom paints have been banned.

The replacements are not nearly as good.

Result:

More of the poor performance products are required which ends up adding more
pollution to the environment than if you had used the good stuff in the
first place.

Save us from the well intended, but sometimes misguided.

Lew



sort of like the "gas" in Calif....
they add things that are supposed to cut pollution (though they poison
the ground water table) but they make your engine run so poorly that
you need more of it to travel the same distance..

As usual, nobody wins but the oil companies..

"Australopithecus scobis" wrote in message
For the doubters, remember that what may not be a big problem when the
population was small and dispersed is indeed a big problem when the
population is large and concentrated. Pack several million people
together, each releasing a teeny tiny amount of these chemicals, and
voila, you have a problem.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com


Goes with the sig line, but millions of people farting produce more
chemicals than a few thousand hobbyist woodfinishers.

On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:28:16 -0500, brocpuffs
wrote:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

Before you go off the deep end, ask at a reputable paint or finishing
products dealer. Local news reporters have been known to be wrong.
States have been known to limit who can sell certain products, with
"pro" suppliers able to continue to sell them. Since home centers and
hardware stores fall into the "banned" category, it gets reported in
the mass media as an overall ban.

Other places have gone "low VOC" with often means the addition of "Do
Not Thin" to the label instructions and a thicker product.

The lacquers, dyes, and stains that I like to use are *made* in your
area.

If it is true, there's always mail order. G

Barry

I guess water based products will be good on chipboard, particle board
and hardboard. Those are all such a step forward, aren't they?

We used Hydrocote Resistane on hardwood furniture, oak, cherry, maple etc
and it works fine. I defy anyone to tell the difference.



--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:06:53 -0500, "Rumpty"
wrote:

I'll never put something that looks like milk on
my products.

You haven't take the time to look at quality water borne product, have
you?

I have tried them, not many because I feel they are vastly inferior to
oil based products. Most people still do.

A step forward or a step back? Kind of an individual thing, but this
legislation is upper US and way too general.

I guess water based products will be good on chipboard, particle board
and hardboard. Those are all such a step forward, aren't they?

James

Before you go off the deep end, ask at a reputable paint or finishing
products dealer. Local news reporters have been known to be wrong.
States have been known to limit who can sell certain products, with
"pro" suppliers able to continue to sell them.

Well folks, don't worry, according to recent reports the Bush administration
is about to turn back 30+ years of air pollution standards. Take you last
breath of clean air folks......

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


"Ba r r y" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:28:16 -0500, brocpuffs
wrote:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

Before you go off the deep end, ask at a reputable paint or finishing
products dealer. Local news reporters have been known to be wrong.
States have been known to limit who can sell certain products, with
"pro" suppliers able to continue to sell them. Since home centers and
hardware stores fall into the "banned" category, it gets reported in
the mass media as an overall ban.

Other places have gone "low VOC" with often means the addition of "Do
Not Thin" to the label instructions and a thicker product.

The lacquers, dyes, and stains that I like to use are *made* in your
area.

If it is true, there's always mail order. G

Barry

I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...

On 9 Dec 2004 06:22:50 -0800, "
wrote:

I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...


... not until the Cabinet finishes rolling over.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:19:02 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


Goes with the sig line, but millions of people farting produce more
chemicals than a few thousand hobbyist woodfinishers.

And they are the only ones using "chemicals ?" Or they
are the ones who are doing something so important that
they should be exempted ?

I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...

You radical republicans really ought to grow up and stop doing that to old
folks.
--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


wrote in message
oups.com...
I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...

On 9 Dec 2004 06:22:50 -0800,
wrote:
I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...


I hear he's a giant chicken.

*collective gasp*

Any other Animaniacs fans around?

Same principle as allowing millions of pollution-spewing automobiles to
drive each day in LA and banning gas lawnmowers?

Think. Industrial use is regulated, personal use 1qt, isn't.

Clear enough?

"GregP" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:19:02 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:


Goes with the sig line, but millions of people farting produce more
chemicals than a few thousand hobbyist woodfinishers.

And they are the only ones using "chemicals ?" Or they
are the ones who are doing something so important that
they should be exempted ?

wrote in message
oups.com...
I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...

And steal candy from babies.

Wayne

"brocpuffs" wrote in message
...

Everything has an LD50. Water, too. Does not mean water is toxic
normally.

No.
But I do get what you're driving at.

brocpuffs wrote:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

What station was the report on? There has been no mention of such a ban
on any of the Buffalo, NY TV stations' news reports and nothing in the
local newspaper. I also did a "Google" search and can find nothing.

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Rumpty wrote:


I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...

You radical republicans really ought to grow up and stop doing that to old
folks.
--

Rumpty

but they make funny sounds as the bounce off the stairs, and don't knock
eating live puppies unless you've tried it!



Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


wrote in message
oups.com...
I heard they're going to push old people down the stairs and torture
small puppies, too...

mac davis wrote:

cadditives 09 Dec 2004 00:41:14 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
wrote:


"brocpuffs" writes:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

Welcome to the real world.

If you want something that will really rot your shorts, be a sailor or
power boater.

"Bottom paint" on a boat is a misnomer. It is not really a paint but
rather a poisonous coating deigned to keep critters from attaching them
selves to the bottom of the boat.

Basic problem:

The good bottom paints have been banned.

The replacements are not nearly as good.

Result:

More of the poor performance products are required which ends up adding
more pollution to the environment than if you had used the good stuff in
the first place.

Save us from the well intended, but sometimes misguided.

Lew



sort of like the "gas" in Calif....
they add things that are supposed to cut pollution (though they poison
the ground water table) but they make your engine run so poorly that
you need more of it to travel the same distance..

As usual, nobody wins but the oil companies..

and how do the oil company's benefit?
they don't make the additive

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:10:14 -0700, Richard Clements
wrote:

As usual, nobody wins but the oil companies..

and how do the oil company's benefit?
they don't make the additive

Mileage drops, more fuel is used.

Barry

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:48:12 GMT, mac davis
wrote:


sort of like the "gas" in Calif....
they add things that are supposed to cut pollution (though they poison
the ground water table) but they make your engine run so poorly that
you need more of it to travel the same distance..

As usual, nobody wins but the oil companies..

Not only that, but here in SE Wisconsin, some of the gas has been
wrecking fuel injectors resulting in very expensive injector
replacements on quite a few vehicles. Nice stuff, huh?

Time to lay in a few cases of my favorite varieties. And a lot of
Bloxygen too. At my level of consumption, that works out to around 40
or 50 quarts to last the rest of my life. I guess that's just too
much for the neo nazi environmentalists.

Does this also mean no lacquer thinner? How will I/we clean up epoxy?
Will epoxy be effectively banned as well?

Maybe we'll go back to the old days of mixing our own finishes ala
Stradivari.

BTW, "all oil base products" covers an enormous territory, not limits
to finish applied to wood. There's also a lot of food products that
are oil base or have oil in them.


On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 18:28:16 -0500, brocpuffs
wrote:

Aaaurgh!

I just picked up on the local news, that NY State is banning sales of
all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

SOB!! Some other states have done thyis already, did you wreckers move
out of those states, or what?

Solvents are NOT harmful just because they;re volatile! Acetone and
alcohol are examples.

The damage to the ozone layer was done most entirely by Freon and
fluorocarbons, as far as I know, because those are the only solvents
that can last long enough to get that far up in the atmosphere.

Overdone doowah! All the best finishes and varnishes, gone? Never!

Where can I sign up against this stupid law!?!?

James

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:16:17 -0500, Nova
wrote:

all oil-based products at the end of this year, 2004.

What station was the report on? There has been no mention of such a ban
on any of the Buffalo, NY TV stations' news reports and nothing in the
local newspaper. I also did a "Google" search and can find nothing.

Hi Jack,

It was broadcast on Rochester WOKR Channel 13 (ABC) on the 6PM news,
maybe a few days ago.

I hope somebody made a mistake. That would sure be egg on Don Alhart's
face, though!

PS I just did a somewhat superficial search on WOKR TV's page and
didn't find anything!?

James

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:35:43 GMT, Ba r r y
calmly ranted:

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 16:10:14 -0700, Richard Clements
wrote:

As usual, nobody wins but the oil companies..

and how do the oil company's benefit?
they don't make the additive

Mileage drops, more fuel is used.

Price goes up 10% for adding alcohol, mileage drops 10% from the less
potent alcohol, fuel sales increase 10% as a result. Who loses? US!
Who wins? Oil companies, on both sides of the equation.


================================================== ============
Like peace and quiet? Buy a phoneless cord.
http://www/diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
================================================== ============

George wrote:

You certainly do love to talk. Of course, it'd be better if you were
saying something meaningful.

When you can come up with anything but crap to show that a twenty minute
weekly stint with a lawnmower pollutes like a four hour/five-day commute,
you let me know, hey?

Run the numbers and see what you get. First look on the nice little piece
of paper you got last time you took your car in for emissions inspection
and see what it _really_ does compared to what the law allows.

Then we'll talk about the difference between a quart of solvent finish in
one in fifty houses three times a year versus daily factory use of drums.

However, since you choose to be insulting rather than arguing the facts, I'm
not wasting any time on you.


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

GregP wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 17:13:39 -0500, "George" george@least wrote:

You certainly do love to talk. Of course, it'd be better if you were
saying something meaningful.

When you can come up with anything but crap to show that a twenty minute
weekly stint with a lawnmower pollutes like a four hour/five-day commute,
you let me know, hey?


The following seems to be pretty balanced. The basis of its info
appears to be the "Outdoor Power Equipment Institute:"


http://www.agnr.umd.edu/users/Bioren...eptoct-99.html

The claim there is that an "average automobile" will generate apx.
10 times the "smog-formingemissions" that a lawnmower is likely
to produce, based on realworld usage. Of course, that's talking
about "average autos," not 10 mpg pig SUVs.

Kind of short on actual numbers though. And is that based on allowable
emissions or actuall emissions? My "10 mpg pig SUV" generally shows about
a tenth the allowable levels in the state-required emission tests.

Then we'll talk about the difference between a quart of solvent finish in
one in fifty houses three times a year versus daily factory use of drums.


Formany people, reducing pollution is always Someone Else's
Problem.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

brocpuffs wrote:
: On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:06:53 -0500, "Rumpty"
: wrote:

:I'll never put something that looks like milk on
:my products.


It only looks milky until it dries.

:
:You haven't take the time to look at quality water borne product, have you?

: I have tried them, not many because I feel they are vastly inferior to
: oil based products. Most people still do.


Let's see. They dry faster. They're repairable, unlike oil-based poly finishes.
They don't automatically tint and amber the wood you put them on (although
you can easily add color if you want). They're better for your health.


Yup, inferior products all right!


: A step forward or a step back? Kind of an individual thing, but this
: legislation is upper US and way too general.

: I guess water based products will be good on chipboard, particle board
: and hardboard. Those are all such a step forward, aren't they?


The WB products also look great on walnut, quilted maple, etc.

-- Andy Barss

"J. Clarke" wrote in
:

Australopithecus scobis wrote:

For the doubters, remember that what may not be a big problem when
the population was small and dispersed is indeed a big problem when
the population is large and concentrated. Pack several million people
together, each releasing a teeny tiny amount of these chemicals, and
voila, you have a problem.

In Los Angeles or other areas prone to temperature inversions and
still air you have a problem. In the rest of the world much less so.



Maybe the answer is to ban all cities with a size greater than
1,000,000! That will do lots of things! Solve the urban blight
problem, solve the red/blue state problem. The only places that really
lean strongly democratic are those huge urban areas.

It would also go a long way toward solving lots of other problem.

If we can legaly re-distribute wealth then why can't we legally re-
distribute people?

Joe Willmann wrote:
....
Maybe the answer is to ban all cities with a size greater than
1,000,000! That will do lots of things! Solve the urban blight
problem, solve the red/blue state problem. The only places that really
lean strongly democratic are those huge urban areas.

It would also go a long way toward solving lots of other problem.

If we can legaly re-distribute wealth then why can't we legally re-
distribute people?

If only redistribute, the we will simply be run over out here...I'm all
for keeping them in their enclaves--in fact, I'd just as soon move some
of ours to there... OTOH, a large earthquake or a strategic sinking
of a portion of the NE could do wonders...

Duane Bozarth wrote:

If only redistribute, the we will simply be run over out here...I'm all
for keeping them in their enclaves--in fact, I'd just as soon move some
of ours to there... OTOH, a large earthquake or a strategic sinking
of a portion of the NE could do wonders...

Which portion of Nebraska do you want to sink?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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