I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went
pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved and
people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new things I
built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some things like a
dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but most of my work
was dome with oil.
When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max

"max" wrote in message

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

Depends on the wood for me. With red and white oak, and most other lighter
color woods, I almost always use an oil based stain (with the exception of
cherry) ... with walnut, pecan, etc, almost never.

And occasionally I will stain certain parts of the primary wood of project
and not stain others. An example would be the drawer fronts, on a desk made
of white oak that has been lightly stained, will often look nice un-stained
so as to provide a subtle contrast after a top coat, like shellac, is
applied.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

Tung oil.


"max" wrote in message
...
I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went
pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved
and
people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new things
I
built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some things like a
dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but most of my work
was dome with oil.
When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be
certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying
lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max

"max" wrote in message ..
When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be
certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying
lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max


I'm strictly amateur. I use stain on things made from pine, probably 90% of
the time. I've only used stain on oak once. Nothing else has been or will
be stained.

If a customer want purple, I'll make purple, but for my own use or gifts, I
just don't care to shade the natural wood. Just my opinion, but I'm sure
others will do different
Ed

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

There seem to be some that regard natural and unstained as somehow better or
more "purist" than stained but that's not realistic. Sometimes you need to
use stains and dyes to bring out the best in wood (as in bird's eye or curly
figuring). I'd say that there's no best approach. Colouring wood should be
regarded as simply a design decision.

I'd suggest that many woodworkers, while having mastered tools and
techniques in building pieces, have spent very little time developing and
refining their finishing methods. And yet a good finish is often all it
takes to transform a piece from looking garage-built into something much
more refined.

I agree with your assessment. I am not looking down at stained pieces, as it
can greatly improve the final look. I just enjoy using different woods for
what they are.
Work for clients usually means sending it to the finisher as our attempts at
learning to spray water base lacquer ended in disaster. Brushing did not
look good either.
Finishing products are a lot better now and I will probably learn to do it
myself since I can no longer afford to pay for it.
max

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

There seem to be some that regard natural and unstained as somehow better or
more "purist" than stained but that's not realistic. Sometimes you need to
use stains and dyes to bring out the best in wood (as in bird's eye or curly
figuring). I'd say that there's no best approach. Colouring wood should be
regarded as simply a design decision.

I'd suggest that many woodworkers, while having mastered tools and
techniques in building pieces, have spent very little time developing and
refining their finishing methods. And yet a good finish is often all it
takes to transform a piece from looking garage-built into something much
more refined.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:10:21 GMT, max wrote:

I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went
pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved and
people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new things I
built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some things like a
dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but most of my work
was dome with oil.
When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max
Oil, Oil, and then Oil (mostly Tung or Danish)
If the wood needs some color shift (for example I had to shift some
maple aprons from yellowish to slightly pink to compliment the color
of the top) then aniline dyes. I prefer not covering the wood with
color.

Cover coat protection depends on application but I prefer just wax.

TWS

Working only for myself and for take-or-leave sale now, so I don't bother
with stains. Kids at school stained a lot of things, of course, but I'm
happy that blot is in the past.

Finish per planned use.

"max" wrote in message
...

I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max

"Steven and Gail Peterson" wrote in message
nk.net...
Tung oil.

Interesting answer.
Many people who reject stain are glad to use oil, even though it produces a
color change as strong as many stains.
I am making a butternut cadenza and have tried 6 light stains on it to see
their effects, as well as just BLO, poly, and Danish oil. The BLO comes out
darker than 3 of the stains.

"max" wrote in message
...



So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

Depends on the wood, but as of now, I'm a regular stainer.

"mp" wrote in message
I'd suggest that many woodworkers, while having mastered tools and
techniques in building pieces, have spent very little time developing and
refining their finishing methods. And yet a good finish is often all it
takes to transform a piece from looking garage-built into something much
more refined.

Well said ... but the fact remains that could I afford to do so, I'd
outsource ALL finishing.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04

max wrote:

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

I regularly stain poplar, but these days I avoid poplar, so it's sort of
moot.

I'm contemplating staining walnut walnut colored on my next project though.
KD walnut can be a nice rich brown, but it's often not. The lighter
colored, almost purplish walnut is much easier to come by locally. Shellac
helps walnut it up a bit, but it still isn't quite as rich and dark as I'd
like. I might try orange shellac and see how that gets me. If not, I
might actually stain walnut walnut colored. Larry Jacques just had a
stroke.

I'm back from seeing the wizard, BTW. Sort of.

All of the above is moot until I manage to go buy some walnut anyway. I
have a project on the books, but I always find too many other things to
spend on before I make the trek to ye olde woode emporiume. It's also
getting cold out there. Last year I was out in the shop in spite of the
cold, but this year.... I dunno.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:10:21 GMT, max wrote:

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

I avoid using stain unless I'm staining the wood.

Barry

Ba r r y wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:10:21 GMT, max wrote:

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

I avoid using stain unless I'm staining the wood.


I've found that if one uses enough paper, one generally avoids a stain.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

I try to suggest the customer pick a natural colored wood. If the customer
is on a tight budget I use Oak and stain to the color of choice. Oak takes
a stain very well. I do not stain any other wood.

Work for clients usually means sending it to the finisher as our attempts
at
learning to spray water base lacquer ended in disaster.

What finish did you try to apply and have you ever tried Hydrocote
Resistane?

--

Rumpty

Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Depends. I don't stain cherry. I stain maple. Sometimes. Most of the
time, I think staining is a crime against some pretty nice wood. I've
refinished some (taking cover - avoiding bricks) Ethan Allan furniture.
When I got though stripping it, the wood wasn't that bad. You sure
couldn't tell when the finish was on. I've built replacement parts for
damaged pieces. I've almost always had to play with stain to keep the
new parts from sticking out like a sore thumb. Never say never or always.

bob g.

max wrote:

I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went
pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved and
people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new things I
built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some things like a
dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but most of my work
was dome with oil.
When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max

"patrick conroy" wrote in message
...

"max" wrote in message
...



So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

Depends on the wood, but as of now, I'm a regular stainer.

Like Patrick it depends on the wood. Unlike Patrick, as of now, I am an
irregular stainer. Use to stain often but now prefer the more natural look
of the various woods. Also to be truthful, finishing is my least favorite
part of wood working and sometimes my attempts at staining came out looking
irregular.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:41:46 GMT, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
wrote:

Ba r r y wrote:
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:10:21 GMT, max wrote:

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

I avoid using stain unless I'm staining the wood.


I've found that if one uses enough paper, one generally avoids a stain.


My right arm is currently in a soft cast, so I actually am using quite
a bit of extra paper right now!

Next month it'll be the left. Use those anti-vibration gloves!

Barry

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:28:27 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I try to suggest the customer pick a natural colored wood. If the customer
is on a tight budget I use Oak and stain to the color of choice. Oak takes
a stain very well. I do not stain any other wood.

That works great until the customer wants a tight, quiet grain.

I always suggest oak or ash whenever I *have* to stain. The stars
don't always align, so I have the procedure I posted to the cherry
blotching thread.

Barry

As a hobbyist woodworker, I'm still learning how to finish. I don't stain
cherry unless it's a gift and the giftee would like it to match something
else and then it's dye on top of sealer. I always stain pine. I sometimes
stain oak. So I guess it would depend on the wood.

Chris Corbett

"max" wrote in message
...
I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went
pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved
and
people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new things
I
built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some things like a
dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but most of my work
was dome with oil.
When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be
certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying
lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.
So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??
Max

"Ba r r y" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 22:28:27 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

I try to suggest the customer pick a natural colored wood. If the
customer
is on a tight budget I use Oak and stain to the color of choice. Oak
takes
a stain very well. I do not stain any other wood.

That works great until the customer wants a tight, quiet grain.

HUh?

Oak does not have a tight or quiet grain. And I do not stain any other
wood.

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:10:21 GMT, max calmly
ranted:

I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went

See my mean remarks from earlier today. It WILL unblotch it, right?


pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved and
people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new things I
built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some things like a
dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but most of my work
was dome with oil.

I was a varnish man in my yout, then I found Watco Natural, then
Waterlox. It combines all the goodness of linseed oil, varnish, and
tung oil. Ten times better than that poly crap. I'll give you 20:1
that all the guys who say they stain also use poly. "Cuz Blob Villa
told me to!"


When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be certain
colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at spraying lacquer
or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.

Goodonya, Mate. Try Waterlox.


So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

Like the plague.


--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:13:57 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:


"Ba r r y" wrote in message
.. .

That works great until the customer wants a tight, quiet grain.

HUh?

Oak does not have a tight or quiet grain.

My point exactly!

And I do not stain any other
wood.

You tell them to take a hike?

Barry

Silvan wrote:
max wrote:


So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??


I regularly stain poplar, but these days I avoid poplar, so it's sort of
moot.

I'm contemplating staining walnut walnut colored on my next project though.
KD walnut can be a nice rich brown, but it's often not. The lighter
colored, almost purplish walnut is much easier to come by locally. Shellac
helps walnut it up a bit, but it still isn't quite as rich and dark as I'd
like. I might try orange shellac and see how that gets me. If not, I
might actually stain walnut walnut colored. Larry Jacques just had a
stroke.

I'm back from seeing the wizard, BTW. Sort of.

All of the above is moot until I manage to go buy some walnut anyway. I
have a project on the books, but I always find too many other things to
spend on before I make the trek to ye olde woode emporiume. It's also
getting cold out there. Last year I was out in the shop in spite of the
cold, but this year.... I dunno.


That's Jaques. I'm surprised he didn't say something.
Joe

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:16:10 GMT, Ba r r y
calmly ranted:

I've found that if one uses enough paper, one generally avoids a stain.

My right arm is currently in a soft cast, so I actually am using quite
a bit of extra paper right now!

Next month it'll be the left. Use those anti-vibration gloves!

A friend I used to work with had both CTS surgeries done at once.
She had to have her husband wipe her every time she went to the
bathroom for nearly 2 months. I'll bet he was glad when those
casts came off.

Good luck on your results.


--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:49:57 -0500, Joe Gorman
calmly ranted:

Silvan wrote:
I might try orange shellac and see how that gets me. If not, I
might actually stain walnut walnut colored. Larry Jacques just had a
stroke.

I'm back from seeing the wizard, BTW. Sort of.

All of the above is moot until I manage to go buy some walnut anyway. I
have a project on the books, but I always find too many other things to
spend on before I make the trek to ye olde woode emporiume. It's also
getting cold out there. Last year I was out in the shop in spite of the
cold, but this year.... I dunno.


That's Jaques. I'm surprised he didn't say something.

I was working through the aneurism, thanks. And thanks for reminding
Silvie that my name is C-less. If I had a nickel for every time
someone misspelled my name, even AFTER I spell it for them on the
phone...


--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:49:57 -0500, Joe Gorman
calmly ranted:


Silvan wrote:

I might try orange shellac and see how that gets me. If not, I
might actually stain walnut walnut colored. Larry Jacques just had a
stroke.

I'm back from seeing the wizard, BTW. Sort of.

All of the above is moot until I manage to go buy some walnut anyway. I
have a project on the books, but I always find too many other things to
spend on before I make the trek to ye olde woode emporiume. It's also
getting cold out there. Last year I was out in the shop in spite of the
cold, but this year.... I dunno.


That's Jaques. I'm surprised he didn't say something.


I was working through the aneurism, thanks. And thanks for reminding
Silvie that my name is C-less. If I had a nickel for every time
someone misspelled my name, even AFTER I spell it for them on the
phone...


Probably a good thing you don't. Doesn't that fault line run
somewhere near you?
Joe

Larry Jaques wrote:

because 17 Nov 2004 16:10:21 GMT, max calmly
ranted:

I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went

See my mean remarks from earlier today. It WILL unblotch it, right?


pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved
and people no longer were just trying to be kind when I showed them new
things I built I found that Watco clear was my finish of choice. Some
things like a dining table or kitchen cabinets needed a hard finish but
most of my work was dome with oil.

I was a varnish man in my yout, then I found Watco Natural, then
Waterlox. It combines all the goodness of linseed oil, varnish, and
tung oil. Ten times better than that poly crap. I'll give you 20:1
that all the guys who say they stain also use poly. "Cuz Blob Villa
told me to!"

nope Norm )

I like staining simply because I like they way it looks, little darker, I
may get flamed for this but I like minwax natural dosn't change the color a
lot, just a enough

I've done a number of wax finishes, they look great, but they don't hold up
to much use

I've read about doing a wax over poly, I think I'm going to give that a try
next



When we went pro customers had different ideas and things had to be
certain colors and then we just used finishers. We were not good at
spraying lacquer or staining.
I am now starting up a little shop in my garage and will go back to some
sort of clear oil. I choose the wood to match the look I want.

Goodonya, Mate. Try Waterlox.


So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

Like the plague.

I'm with you
and then some

Swingman wrote:


"mp" wrote in message
I'd suggest that many woodworkers, while having mastered tools and
techniques in building pieces, have spent very little time developing and
refining their finishing methods. And yet a good finish is often all it
takes to transform a piece from looking garage-built into something much
more refined.

Well said ... but the fact remains that could I afford to do so, I'd
outsource ALL finishing.

max writes:

I have been following the blotchy stain post with amusement. Before I went
pro I built furniture at home for many years. There were a few early
attempts at coloring wood, mostly bad. Even decent jobs detracted from the
craftsmanship (in my opinion) of the final piece. As my skills improved and

Given the meaning of "stain":
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Stain \Stain\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Stained}; p. pr. & vb. n.
{Staining}.] [Abbrev. fr. distain.]
1. To discolor by the application of foreign matter; to make
foul; to spot; as, to stain the hand with dye; armor
stained with blood.

2. To color, as wood, glass, paper, cloth, or the like, by
processess affecting, chemically or otherwise, the
material itself; to tinge with a color or colors combining
with, or penetrating, the substance; to dye; as, to stain
wood with acids, colored washes, paint rubbed in, etc.; to
stain glass.

3. To spot with guilt or infamy; to bring reproach on; to
blot; to soil; to tarnish.

Of honor void, Of innocence, of faith, of purity,
Our wonted ornaments now soiled and stained.
--Milton.

4. To cause to seem inferior or soiled by comparison.

She stains the ripest virgins of her age. --Beau. &
Fl.

That did all other beasts in beauty stain.
--Spenser.

Three of the four definitions say clearly that staining is a bad
thing, so you have to be lucky if you want you work to be improved by
stainging ... ;-)
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:05:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


A friend I used to work with had both CTS surgeries done at once.
She had to have her husband wipe her every time she went to the
bathroom for nearly 2 months. I'll bet he was glad when those
casts came off.

My guy refuses to do that. Even if for some sick reason I wanted to
do both, he wouldn't. I ride mountain bikes with a guy who broke
both elbows in a crash. His girlfriend wiped him for a few months.
When he healed, she dumped him.

Good luck on your results.

Thanks!

Barry

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:59:39 -0500, Joe Gorman
calmly ranted:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I was working through the aneurism, thanks. And thanks for reminding
Silvie that my name is C-less. If I had a nickel for every time
someone misspelled my name, even AFTER I spell it for them on the
phone...

Probably a good thing you don't. Doesn't that fault line run
somewhere near you?

That was when I lived in LoCal. The San Andreas Fault ran about 30
miles inland from me. But I now live in the Cascade Range, so I have
new faults all around me. Hey, Southern California earthquakes were
something to live for just to watch people FREAK when they hit. I was
always happy to get the free E-ticket ride, too.

Gunner will have to take over for me as Fault Watch Captain. I believe
he's close, too.

P.S: What difference would a fault line make to a nickel fortune?
It'd be turned into paper in an instant by the banks.


--
Strong like ox, smart like tractor.
----------------------------------
www.diversify.com Oxen-free Website Design

I like staining simply because I like they way it looks, little darker, I
may get flamed for this but I like minwax natural dosn't change the color a
lot, just a enough

Never understood the flaming over stains- I like Minwax Natural, too.
I've wrecked a few nice projects using other stains, so I'm a little
gunshy about the darker ones, but the natural is really nice, IMO.

I've done a number of wax finishes, they look great, but they don't hold up
to much use

I like to wax over oil or the abovementioned Minwax.

I've read about doing a wax over poly, I think I'm going to give that a try
next

I'm not saying that's a "bad" idea, but what is the point of that?

So, finally, the question, how many use stain on a regular basis and how
many avoid it??

Like the plague.

I just avoid the ones I've botched up. Usually, I just try to get the
right wood, and use a clear or nearly clear finish these days, but
back when I could only afford cheap POS wood, stain was sometimes
necessary.


Aut inveniam viam aut faciam