I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To make
a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get something
resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my bank to cancel
the payment.

What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0600, "John B" wrote:

I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To make
a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get something
resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my bank to cancel
the payment.

What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.

Have you considered TurboCAD? turbocad.com I've used it for general CAD
stuff for years -- not furniture. It has a good rep as an Autocad
"knock-off". And, at a recent local computer show I got a copy of TurboCAD
10 deluxe for $40. Also, check e-bay. TurboCAD 9.2 might be good enough
for you - especially if you are doing 2D - and it is a bit cheaper. HTH.
Igor

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0600, "John B"
wrote:
What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.


2D ...DeltaCad ...very intuitive. Excellent program. May be also
time-limited now.

3D ...Solid Edge. Great tutorials. Downloadable version works last
time I tried; not all features until purchased, but enough.

John B wrote:

I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my
programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To
make a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get
something resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my
bank to cancel the payment.

There is no "this company" for Intellicad. It was a Visio product that
Microsoft spun off to a consortium when they bought out Visio. The
consortium makes it available at a flat fee to their members who then
market it. There are a number of sources, including CADopia, Bricsnet,
CMS, and others. CMS charges 52 bucks for Intellicad Standard--if you paid
$150 then you must have gotten it from one of the other sources.

Now, as for your "evaluation period expired", when you paid you should have
been given a registration number that you need to plug in.

What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells
and whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To make
a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get something
resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my bank to cancel
the payment.
What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.


Try FelixCad, from Germany, you can get a free version to download. I am not
a CAD user, I have it because I just want to learn it. the full version is $599.xx
but you can have the free one. Superb GUI too.

Alex

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:49:15 -0500, Guess who
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0600, "John B"
wrote:
What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.


2D ...DeltaCad ...very intuitive. Excellent program. May be also
time-limited now.

But only costs $40 last time I looked.


3D ...Solid Edge. Great tutorials. Downloadable version works last
time I tried; not all features until purchased, but enough.

Don't know the price from looking at the solidedge site, but I get the
impression this is not aiomed at the "average joe" wanting draw a few
pictures???

AH! Here we go:
http://cadence.advanstar.com/newslet...ad/0899_1.html

"To begin, Solid Edge Origin is a free program, available to anyone
who registers over the Web. It is basically the Drafting module of
Solid Edge and allows users to import 2D DXF, DWG, DGN and IGES files.
3D models can be created and viewed, but not saved–only printed. The
idea is to introduce the user to the basics of 3D parametric modeling
and how to get 2D drawings from a 3D model. It includes several
tutorials for assistance and there is also support available over the
Web. Solid Edge Origin3D is the next step up, as this $495 program
allows the 3D model to be saved.

A new, more flexible pricing structure was also announced. For $1,995,
users can purchase the Solid Edge Base package for machine design. For
sheet metal and assembly design there are now separate modules for
$1,995 each. All three can be purchased for $4,995. For users needing
tubing, the XpressRoute package is $1,495, or it can be added to the
$4,995 bundle for only $1,000. "



************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0600, "John B"
wrote:

I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To make
a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get something
resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my bank to cancel
the payment.

What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.



autocad LT?

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 18:49:15 -0500, Guess who
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0600, "John B"
wrote:
What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.


2D ...DeltaCad ...very intuitive. Excellent program. May be also
time-limited now.

BTW. If you want a PC-based "pencil and paper" with full accuracy but
all of the simplicity of that medium, then I second Deltacad.

It's the only drafting programme I can walk away from for a week or
two or more, and then simply come back and start drawing again. I use
it all the time as a jotter. Not 3d, as said.
************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

The Sept 2004 edition of American Woodworker magazine has an article
entitled "CAD for Woodworkers". It is a review of about a dozen products
including side-by-side comparisons. Two stand out: QuickCAD 8 ($50)
and TurboCAD Deluxe v10 ($150). I'd start with an article like this. The
magazine sells back issues and individual article reprints.

--Billy




"John B" wrote in message
...
I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my
programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To
make
a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get something
resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my bank to
cancel
the payment.

What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells
and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:16:10 -0500, "Billy Smith"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

The Sept 2004 edition of American Woodworker magazine has an article
entitled "CAD for Woodworkers". It is a review of about a dozen products
including side-by-side comparisons. Two stand out: QuickCAD 8 ($50)
and TurboCAD Deluxe v10 ($150). I'd start with an article like this. The
magazine sells back issues and individual article reprints.
Found this by chance....

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=2752576

Product Information

As of September 30, 2004, Autodesk will no longer offer Autodesk
QuickCAD 8 software, nor is it planning any future releases of this
product. If you are a new customer looking for software which is
similar to QuickCAD, or you are a current QuickCAD user and are
interested in purchasing an upgrade, the following products may be
right for you.

So the review is well timed! G.
************************************************** ***
Have you noticed that people always run from what
they _need_ toward what they want?????

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:16:10 -0500, "Billy Smith"
wrote:

The Sept 2004 edition of American Woodworker magazine has an article
entitled "CAD for Woodworkers". It is a review of about a dozen products
including side-by-side comparisons. Two stand out: QuickCAD 8 ($50)
and TurboCAD Deluxe v10 ($150). I'd start with an article like this. The
magazine sells back issues and individual article reprints.

As I mentioned above, TurboCAD can be had at good prices at e-Bay:
http://search.ebay.com/turbocad_W0QQsojsZ1QQfromZR40

And, TurboCad 9.2 Deluxe or even a lesser one might work well enough,
especially for 2D. IIRC, at the TurboCad.com site there is a link that
says what is in the current version that is new since version 9.2

If you do want the latest version, here is TC 10.2 Deluxe for $78,
including shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...21884 05&rd=1

Intellicad is not one company. Long story but what I would do if I wee you
is go to a different company and buy theirs. By the price you quoted, I
would guess that you're dealing with Cadopia. Try CMS. They are much
cheaper. I have been using their software with little problem for over a
year. They are not the same so someone else's trial will not effect it.

"John B" wrote in message
...
I have had an absolutely horrible problem with this company. First off, I
had used their "free" evaluation program for several years and it did
everything I wanted. Then my hard drive crashed and I lost all my
programs.
I downloaded the new version and was off and running, but then the new
(never mentioned until it happened) evaluation period ran out. After a lot
of soul searching, I forked over the $149 , downloaded it and tried to
install it. It wouldn't run. Same "evaluation period expired error". To
make
a long story short, after four frustrating days of trying to get something
resembling support from them, I gave up and have contacted my bank to
cancel
the payment.

What I'm interested in is finding an alternative. I use it strictly for
furniture and other woodworking projects, so I don't need all the bells
and
whistles of Autocad, but I want a smoothly functioning program that
resembles it as much as possible. Recommendations would be appreciated.

Turbocad is not even close to an "Autocad knockoff". About the only
simularity is that they both are cad programs. If you decide to go for
Turbocad, avoid anything newer than version 8. Version 9 has accuracy
problems and version 10 is so bug ridden it has convinced me to switch
software. I have been using Turbocad Pro for about 7 years. No more.

"igor" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:59:58 -0600, "John B"
wrote:

Have you considered TurboCAD? turbocad.com I've used it for general CAD
stuff for years -- not furniture. It has a good rep as an Autocad
"knock-off". And, at a recent local computer show I got a copy of
TurboCAD
10 deluxe for $40. Also, check e-bay. TurboCAD 9.2 might be good enough
for you - especially if you are doing 2D - and it is a bit cheaper. HTH.
Igor

CW -- VERY interesting. I have also been using TC8 for maybe 2 1/2 years
(used v3 foe some years before that) for very basic stuff - mostly for
cleaning up hidden line images created by another program and then turning
them into patent application drawings. I just bought TC 9.2 Deluxe at a
computer show for $40, mostly to try the 3D. (I've been using a 1996
vintage 3D ap.) In the box was TC 10, but with instructions for 9.2. And
there was a note of sorts saying that 10 was provided at no extra cost, or
some such. Did seem strange. Your comment about the accuracy problem with
v9 might explain that.

I am disappointed in that the pictures and the text indicate that TC deluxe
can generate 3D images with shadows but from the instructions it seems that
maybe that requires Pro -- have not installed it yet to see for myself.

My comment about TC being an AutoCAD knock-off was based only on what I
have read -- never have seen real AutoCAD.

Anyway, have you used TC 10 Pro to do any 3D creations? I'm looking for
something for simple consumer product development (not for engineering,
just design). Also, what are you switching to? And why not just stick with
TC8? -- Igor

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:22:47 -0800, "CW" wrote:

Turbocad is not even close to an "Autocad knockoff". About the only
simularity is that they both are cad programs. If you decide to go for
Turbocad, avoid anything newer than version 8. Version 9 has accuracy
problems and version 10 is so bug ridden it has convinced me to switch
software. I have been using Turbocad Pro for about 7 years. No more.

As the originator of this thread, I wanted to thank everyone for the helpful
ideas and support. Seems like the level of civility on this ng has improved
since I was last here. I was really surprised to learn about the history of
Intellicad and that it is sold by different vendors at widely different
prices. FWIW, Cadopia has agreed to refund my payment. In the process they
told me that their standard for answering email service requests is 48
hours, which I find unacceptable. At that rate, I might have gotten up and
running in about a month, if I was lucky.

I went to CMS and downloaded another demo, which is now fully functional and
I am back in business. They provide a notice each time you open the program
to let you know how long before the evaluation period ends (total is 30
days). Cadopia didn't spell out what the evaluation period was, and since I
had their old version that never expired, the shutdown came as a big
surpprise. CMS sells the standard version for $52, which is very reasonable
for that program. It is especially favorable in light of Cadopia selling it
for $149. Still much cheaper than Autocad, but certainly a heftier
expenditure than I wanted to make. It does everything I need a cad program
to do, so, assuming my experience with them continues favorable, I'll buy it
from CMS.

In my fairly casual forays around the cad market, the thing I've learned is
that it is a big nuisance to learn a new cad program, particularly since
they seem to delight in doing everything just a bit differently. I learned
initially on Autocad, so I appreciate the similarities of Intellicad at a
small fraction of the cost of Autocad, even the LT version. I've never tried
Autosketch, so I can't comment on it.

Again, thanks for all the help. The copy of the old version one participant
sent me never did arrive, but at $52 for a registered latest version, I
don't feel the need to struggle. If anything comes up in my encounter with
CMS that alters my initial favorable impressions, I'll pass it on.

I've been a CMS customer for about a year. They are a bit slower than some
companies to get out updates but they do get them. They will send you an
email with a link to get any pertinent info or upgrades. I have been quite
satisfied with Intellicad and, CMS, unlike some cad companies, seems to
value there customers. BTW, Bricscad wants $250.00 for the standard
version. Also, check out alt.cad.intellicad. A rather helpful bunch.

"John B" wrote in message
...
As the originator of this thread, I wanted to thank everyone for the
helpful
ideas and support. Seems like the level of civility on this ng has
improved
since I was last here. I was really surprised to learn about the history
of
Intellicad and that it is sold by different vendors at widely different
prices. FWIW, Cadopia has agreed to refund my payment. In the process they
told me that their standard for answering email service requests is 48
hours, which I find unacceptable. At that rate, I might have gotten up and
running in about a month, if I was lucky.

I went to CMS and downloaded another demo, which is now fully functional
and
I am back in business. They provide a notice each time you open the
program
to let you know how long before the evaluation period ends (total is 30
days). Cadopia didn't spell out what the evaluation period was, and since
I
had their old version that never expired, the shutdown came as a big
surpprise. CMS sells the standard version for $52, which is very
reasonable
for that program. It is especially favorable in light of Cadopia selling
it
for $149. Still much cheaper than Autocad, but certainly a heftier
expenditure than I wanted to make. It does everything I need a cad program
to do, so, assuming my experience with them continues favorable, I'll buy
it
from CMS.

In my fairly casual forays around the cad market, the thing I've learned
is
that it is a big nuisance to learn a new cad program, particularly since
they seem to delight in doing everything just a bit differently. I learned
initially on Autocad, so I appreciate the similarities of Intellicad at a
small fraction of the cost of Autocad, even the LT version. I've never
tried
Autosketch, so I can't comment on it.

Again, thanks for all the help. The copy of the old version one
participant
sent me never did arrive, but at $52 for a registered latest version, I
don't feel the need to struggle. If anything comes up in my encounter with
CMS that alters my initial favorable impressions, I'll pass it on.

You getting version 10 really doesn't surprise me. IMSI has been sending
people emails offering it at a very low price. It would appear they are
trying to dump it as it is about time for them to come out with another
version. I have never used Deluxe so really couldn't say for sure but, as it
is just a light version of pro, hope for the best. Some claim to have no
problem with it but the majority seems to be having everything from
irritating bugs to crashes rendering it virtually unusable. I'm somewhere in
between. I can use it but not with great confidence. Frequent sequential
saves and backups are the norm. You are not the first to express
disappointment in the implied capabilities and reality. They have been doing
this lately. It borders on misrepresentation. 3D renderings with lights and
shadows are indeed a Pro only feature. The accuracy problems in version 9
were only in 3D and were quite small, to small to be significant for a great
many users. Those of us that had higher accuracy requirements were not able
to use the program without a great deal of checking. After version 8, they
changed the way dimensions work. They added the ability to suppress leading
and trailing zeros. That was a good thing and the suppression of leading
zeros was something I had been pushing for for some time. The downside is
that, in so doing, they made it so that if you didn't have the right
settings, the dimensions could be off by several decimal places or several
inches, depending on the units you were using. Watch for it. The commercial
reviews that you read often compare Turbocad to AutoCAD as that is an
application that many are familiar with. The operation of the program is
quite different though and going from one to the other is not easy. I had
used Turbocad for some years before ever using AutoCAD. Circumstances
dictated that I use AutoCAD daily for about a year. At fist, I found it
rather frustrating adapting to the differences. The saving grace was the
command line. As I new what I wanted to do but didn't know the interface, I
got in the habit of typing most of my commands. Now, I rather prefer AutoCAD
for 2D work but for 3D, Turbocad is far, far superior. Turbocad would be a
great program if they would get the bugs fixed which leads me to why I am
switching to Rhino. For as long as I have been using Turbocad, I always
found it somewhat lacking. Nothing major that I could not work around and,
as each new version was better than the last, I thought it worthwhile to
stay with it. Things seem to have changed though. The last two versions have
been a disappointment, not only due to bugs but things that used to work are
often broken in the next release. As a change to software that would equal
or exceed the performance of Turbocad was going to cost me in the area of
$1000.00, it was not a decision to be taken lightly. Most of what I do is 3D
or starts out that way. For work, machined parts and for home, woodworking
projects. Things go much smoother and with less surprises if it is built and
assembled on the computer first. For your uses of product design, Turbocad
is an excellent program for that if you can get around the bugs. Under the
present circumstances, I can get along just fine with Turbocad such as it is
but things may change, as it has in the past, and I need software that is
actively being developed and supported by a reputable company. As it stands
right now, the future of Turbocad as a viable product is in question and the
company will not communicate at all. I am no longer willing to put up with
the uncertainty.

"igor" wrote in message
...
CW -- VERY interesting. I have also been using TC8 for maybe 2 1/2 years
(used v3 foe some years before that) for very basic stuff - mostly for
cleaning up hidden line images created by another program and then turning
them into patent application drawings. I just bought TC 9.2 Deluxe at a
computer show for $40, mostly to try the 3D. (I've been using a 1996
vintage 3D ap.) In the box was TC 10, but with instructions for 9.2. And
there was a note of sorts saying that 10 was provided at no extra cost, or
some such. Did seem strange. Your comment about the accuracy problem
with
v9 might explain that.

I am disappointed in that the pictures and the text indicate that TC
deluxe
can generate 3D images with shadows but from the instructions it seems
that
maybe that requires Pro -- have not installed it yet to see for myself.

My comment about TC being an AutoCAD knock-off was based only on what I
have read -- never have seen real AutoCAD.

Anyway, have you used TC 10 Pro to do any 3D creations? I'm looking for
something for simple consumer product development (not for engineering,
just design). Also, what are you switching to? And why not just stick
with
TC8? -- Igor