I find the replies to the original post a joke.

All Robert was saying is that there is a sale on and asked a question if any
one knew if they were the same product. No where did I see him condemn LV
for there products. All he did say that if they are the same product that
there is quite a mark up.

Hell if I could sell a widget for $5 to some one and then sell
the same widget for $20 to some one else because they were willing to pay
that much. I sure as hell would be pushing the $20 widget now would you not?
Further more if I bought the $20 widget and found out that I could have
bought the same one for $5. If I had of shopped around I sure would have
appreciated some one letting me know and not jumped down there through with
insults.

I have not posted to this group for quite a while for just this
reason being that of a gang mentality "if one person has something negative
to say you all jump in with something negative".

I for one would like to thank Robert for the heads up and I will
definitely check out Princess Auto's clamps to see if they are a good value
for the money.

I do agree that LV has great products and great service but have
found many of the very same products LV sells at far cheaper prices else
wear.



Chris

"Chris Melanson" wrote in message

I find the replies to the original post a joke.

All Robert was saying is that there is a sale on and asked a question if
any
one knew if they were the same product. No where did I see him condemn LV
for there products. All he did say that if they are the same product that
there is quite a mark up.

Jokes on you. Evidently you did not see anyof Robert's earlier posts
regarding the cost differences between the US and CA for the same item. He
has a hard-on for LV. That is his decision.

You also missed the intent of the derogatory comment about markup that he
directed toRobin. He could has just stopped at posting the web page if he
merely wanted to show a good deal on clamps.

It was a cheap shot. Maybe you don't agree, but who cares? Robert
obviously has had a poor upbringing and should have had a better nanny.

Chris Melanson wrote:
I find the replies to the original post a joke.
[snip]

Chris, you are missing a bit of history. This guy has "expressed" a
strong bias against Lee Valley, and you should take a look to see the
kinds of comments he's been posting. The thread subject is "Americans
seem to be getting a better deal from Lee Valley" but he's set the
X-No-Archive flag on his messages, so you won't find his postings on
google groups; you'll have to find them on your local news server (or
someone could provide you with a copy).

- Daniel

Ahhh, screw you Rob't. I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, but
life's too short.

Happy fishing.

cya
Rob

--


http://www.robswoodworking.com

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:21:42 GMT, "RE Quick Transit"
wrote:


"Chris Melanson" wrote in message

I find the replies to the original post a joke.

All Robert was saying is that there is a sale on and asked a question
if
any
one knew if they were the same product. No where did I see him condemn
LV
for there products. All he did say that if they are the same product
that
there is quite a mark up.

Jokes on you. Evidently you did not see anyof Robert's earlier posts
regarding the cost differences between the US and CA for the same item.
He
has a hard-on for LV. That is his decision.

I posted that Canadians pay more than Americans for Lee Valley products,
and
several posters supported that.
Then I was attacked.
If Robin thinks he can use the thugs in this group to shut me up he's
wrong.
I've been in this group longer than most, much longer than Mr Lee, and I
know
the drill. The harder you push the harder I push back.

You also missed the intent of the derogatory comment about markup that he
directed toRobin. He could has just stopped at posting the web page if
he
merely wanted to show a good deal on clamps.

It was a cheap shot. Maybe you don't agree, but who cares? Robert
obviously has had a poor upbringing and should have had a better nanny.

"Robert" wrote in message

I posted that Canadians pay more than Americans for Lee Valley products,
and
several posters supported that.

No problem with that. Facts speak for themselves.


Then I was attacked.
If Robin thinks he can use the thugs in this group to shut me up he's
wrong.

This shows how gnorant of the reality you are. Mr. Lee use thugs? Sure, he
has a lot of fans here and he has earned that, but to say he orchatrated
anything by his thugs is just plain WRONG and incendiary. You have no facts
to back that up. Seems potentially libelous.

I've been in this group longer than most, much longer than Mr Lee, and I
know
the drill. The harder you push the harder I push back.

Push all you want, but you will not change the minds of his loyal customers,
including me. I like a good ****ing contest myself. Keep the body clean
and pure.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:03:04 GMT, Robert
wrote:

If Robin thinks he can use the thugs in this group to shut me up he's wrong.

I might be a thug, but I'm a free-lance thug.

I just like the shop that sells me the really nice shiny toys at a
price I can still afford to pay. Your toys are certainly cheaper, so
you can have more of them to play with. But they're made out of
cardboard and plastic and they'll break before mine do.

In article , Robert
wrote:

If Robin thinks he can use the thugs in this group to shut me up he's wrong.
I've been in this group longer than most, much longer than Mr Lee, and I know
the drill. The harder you push the harder I push back.

Um... Maybe you should go back on your meds, 'kay?

Rob Lee and Lee Valley get defended here because:

a) He's a great guy, willing to answer any question, demonstrably cares
about the woodworking community, and;

b) We've found purchasing from Lee Valley to be an overwhelming
positive experience both in terms of the value (quality/price equation)
of their products and their absolutely superb customer service.

I may just stop by Princess Auto here in Saskatoon tomorrow and have a
look at the clamps you promoted (while tagging on a gratuitious shot at
LV) as they're only about 3 minutes away from the office, but I've seen
the aluminum bar clamps in that price range at House of Tools (about 45
seconds away from the office) and put them back in the bin. They were
crap. I suspect the ones at P.A. are probably from the same
manufacturer.

Now, had I bought them on sale at $12, got them home and discovered
they were crap I'd be SOL. No refunds on sale items.

However, if I purchased the aluminum bar clamps from Lee Valley and
didn't like them/thought they were poor value I could:

a) Call Lee Valley and they'd happily refund all my money and pay for
return shipping, or;

b) Post here and bitch and whine about the quality, call Robin Lee
names, make unfair accusations and generally be a jerk and have Rob
look up my order and post a message that he'd *already* refunded my
money to my credit card and was sending a shipping carton prepaid so I
could return them.

Get it?

In article , Robert
wrote:

If you don't understand how Robin uses the regulars in this group then you are
completely ignorant of usenet group politics.

ROFLMAO!

You're a complete farging idiot.

In article , Robert
wrote:

Canadian customers are being overcharged to support the lower American prices.
Robin admitted that yesterday.

Not how I read it. And in case you hadn't noticed, the CDN $ is over
$0.82 US today.

As a Canadian I think that's unfair.
Off course Americans don't give a **** who get's ****ed as long as it isn't
them.g
So Robin is your Hero.

Um, check the domain name, 'kay? Or maybe you didn't read my entire
post or don't know where Saskatoon is?

In article , Robert
wrote:

You protest far too much Dave.

I'm not protesting at all.

I'm laughing out loud at you.

In article , Robert
wrote:

I'm surprised, I usually find Canadians to be much brighter than you.
Maybe you were adopted.

LMAO!

And those are the last words of yours I shall ever read. Buh-bye.

Could you provide a message-id for us?

(Also, you should turn off your "X-No-Archive" flag on your messages.
Regardless of whether you are in the right or not, stand behind your
messages - let them be archived in google groups.)

Robert wrote:
Canadian customers are being overcharged to support the lower American prices.
Robin admitted that yesterday.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:32:05 GMT, "Chris Melanson"
wrote:

I find the replies to the original post a joke.

Only if you utterly ignore context. Which most of the people on this
NG were smart enough not to do.

Robert has a beef against Lee Valley, a company many of us have dealt
with and like quite a lot. About the only use he makes of this forum
is to snipe at them. It gets real old real quick and not unreasonably
produces resentment on the part of the people who choose to wade
through his bile.

All Robert was saying is that there is a sale on and asked a question if any
one knew if they were the same product.

No, that is clearly not what he was doing.

No where did I see him condemn LV
for there products.

Then you obviously didn't read very closely -- or you have a damned
odd definition of 'condemn LV'. Study up on 'implication'. If you
honestly believe that statement then you're the sort of prize sucker
that both US presidential candidates are so earnestly courting right
now.

All he did say that if they are the same product that
there is quite a mark up.

Implying that Lee Valley was gouging its customers.


Hell if I could sell a widget for $5 to some one and then sell
the same widget for $20 to some one else because they were willing to pay
that much.

If you thought you could buy that $20 widget for $5 you're the sort of
idiot who keeps Harbor Freight in business.

Good Lord! I'd expect anyone with the smarts to read this news group
to be well aware of the fact that the market is flooded with
woodworking tools that look alike but don't perform anything alike.
That's elementary and if you haven't figured it out by now then you're
wasting your money buying cheap crap that will make you work harder
and won't deliver the results you want.

I sure as hell would be pushing the $20 widget now would you not?
Further more if I bought the $20 widget and found out that I could have
bought the same one for $5. If I had of shopped around I sure would have
appreciated some one letting me know and not jumped down there through with
insults.




I have not posted to this group for quite a while for just this
reason being that of a gang mentality "if one person has something negative
to say you all jump in with something negative".

How about "if one person is fed up with a twit, a lot of people are
probably fed up with the same twit"?

I for one would like to thank Robert for the heads up and I will
definitely check out Princess Auto's clamps to see if they are a good value
for the money.

And you will undoubtedly be disappointed -- if you're truly comparing
quality for quality.

snip

Robert is merely an annoying little net troll. You OTOH are positively
irritating.

Double Plonk

--RC



Chris


"You Know Things Are Weird When Arnold Schwartznegger
Is Governor of California, Ronald Reagan Is One Of Our
Most Beloved Ex-Presidents, And John Kerry Is Running
For President On His Vietnam War Record"

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:31:02 GMT, Robert
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 03:13:08 GMT, "RE Quick Transit" wrote:


"Robert" wrote in message

I posted that Canadians pay more than Americans for Lee Valley products,
and
several posters supported that.

No problem with that. Facts speak for themselves.


Then I was attacked.
If Robin thinks he can use the thugs in this group to shut me up he's
wrong.

This shows how gnorant of the reality you are.

No, your statement just proves you are a newbie, clueless, or both, a
cluebie.g

Well, one of you is. And one of you has established a richly deserved
reputation for spouting troll-like nonsense. Which is which I'll leave
as an exercise to the reader.

Mr. Lee use thugs?

If you don't understand how Robin uses the regulars in this group then you are
completely ignorant of usenet group politics.

Now let me see if I've got this straight. . .
Lee Valley, it is generally agreed, has a reputation for providing
quality products and services. This is attested to by many of the
regular posters to this group -- posters, please note who have
contributed a great deal here. You, OTOH, have problems with Lee
Valley and apparently the only time you come out from under your
bridge is to take a shot at them -- often a cheap shot.

And anyone who gets tired of your juvenile, pointless tantrums and has
the temerity to say so is somehow a 'thug' for Lee Valley.

Look, you obviously don't care about convincing anyone of anything.
So, equally obviously, the only justification for your miserable
existence in this NG is to satisfy some brat-like craving for an
audience for your display of temper.

Fortunately that's what kill files are for.

--RC

"You Know Things Are Weird When Arnold Schwartznegger
Is Governor of California, Ronald Reagan Is One Of Our
Most Beloved Ex-Presidents, And John Kerry Is Running
For President On His Vietnam War Record"

RC,

Please follow the Standard Advice.

Ignore, filter, help others to do the same.

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:16:30 -0600, Dave Balderstone
wrote:

RC,

Please follow the Standard Advice.

Ignore, filter, help others to do the same.

Oh done. But I had to get that pair off my chest.

-_RC
"You Know Things Are Weird When Arnold Schwartznegger
Is Governor of California, Ronald Reagan Is One Of Our
Most Beloved Ex-Presidents, And John Kerry Is Running
For President On His Vietnam War Record"

In article ,
wrote:

Oh done. But I had to get that pair off my chest.

And I apologize for not following my own advice.

;-)

djb

"Robert" wrote in message

No, your statement just proves you are a newbie, clueless, or both, a
cluebie.g

Not new, been here for over three years,on other newsgroups over ten years.
Don't bother with a google search as I've posted under other names.


Mr. Lee use thugs?

If you don't understand how Robin uses the regulars in this group then you
are
completely ignorant of usenet group politics.

Please explain. I've been a Lee Valley customer longer than I've been a
woodworker or participated in this group. I support Robin and if I'm a
thug, Mr. Lee has never contacted me or asked for help. I like the company.
I also feel you are making statements with no real knowledge of facts.

If you think I'm harshnow, just knock my beloved Craftsman tools.

Robert wrote:
No one has disputed my facts.

Well, I don't dispute your observation that the CAD prices often look
out of line with USD prices. However, you claim that it's because
either the Canadian market is not as competitive allowing a higher
price, or that the company is out to scalp its Canadian customers.

I'll attach a previous message that suggests LV may be scalping no more
than approx. 3% at the time the prices are set, which are well in
advance of when we the customer sees them. Given that the CAD has in
recent history been the loosing currency, I don't see that buffer as
that big a malicious thing.

If I'd have known back in June that the CAD would appreciate so steeply
over the next few months, I'd be a rich man. Fact is that nobody really
knows with absolute certainty what exchange will be like.

(And we haven't begun to account for foreign goods that are imported and
paid for in USD...)

Facts are Canadians pay more than Americans for items from a Canadian company.

See attached message. If you have data for previous years' (take the
low angle block plane, just to serve as an example) USD/CAD pricing,
let's analyze it.

Fact two Lee Valley makes more profit from it's individual Canadian customers.

To be determined from exercise above.

"Robert" wrote in message

All I have seen is personal attacks.

Seems like YOU are the one that started that with your snide remarks.

Robert,

Your selective reading, quoting and maladjusted perception is boring me
to tears.

You repeat that YOU were attacked?

What about the first message I see from you after your OP?

----------------------------------
I'm confused; have you confused Lee Valley with Walmart? Damn, man, if
you want to shop elsewhere, go for it, why you gotta pollute the ng with
this?

Listen you silly little prick.
This is a HEADSUP for a great deal on bar clamps.
A common and accepted practice in this group.
If you aren't interested then take your whining elsewhere.
----------------------------------


Damn, that looks like YOU attacking him to me. And you have continued. You
also seem to feel you have to point out what an old time user of Use-net you
are, as if it justifies your merciless twisting of the facts, and repeated
vitriol.

I ran the original Australian Mail hub for Fido-net, and have been using pc
coms since modems were invented - does that make it alright for me to act
like a prat? Oh goody - I must commence to do so...

Basic point of your post should have been framed as a polite question (LV
deserve that), and you would have got some good answers (and some smart arse
ones as usual).

BUT - you then showed that your question was not an honest one, your only
intention was to try and create facts to prove a case against LV and Mr Lee.
You immediately lost all credibility, and further damaged your case by
attributing facts and statements that simply are not supported. Even when
you quote them back - your understanding of what is said, and the facts is
severely warped, and lacks common sense.

IF you are able to compare LIKE with LIKE, AND see a discrepency - I am sure
it will prove the standard business practices of pricing costs and margins
is applied and then LV will shine thru as a provider of an exceptional
total product, as that incorporates actual gadget, delivery, service pre and
post sale etc.

I am NOT an LV thug either - have never done business with them in fact -
but I can sure attest to one thing - out of tens of thousands of messages,
yours are the ONLY ones I have seen that attribute some sinister or negative
aspect to LV, and are in stark contrast to the many positive reports. I
would almost suspect you are either unbalanced, or a competitor - or both.

However you are more likely a Troll, and I a fisherman.

Have a nice life.
Mike
Brisbane


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:05:56 GMT, Robert
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 05:03:38 GMT, wrote:

All he did say that if they are the same product that
there is quite a mark up.

Implying that Lee Valley was gouging its customers.

And confirmed by Robin.

Has anyone answered the question of whether or not they are the SAME
clamps?

JP

In article , Jay Pique
wrote:

Has anyone answered the question of whether or not they are the SAME
clamps?

I decided to go to my son's school fitness walk this afternoon rather
than go to Princess Auto.

But as I said earlier... I saw 60" aluminum bar clamps at House of
Tools a few months back on sale in the same price range. They were
garbage.

I've never ordered anything from Lee Valley and had garbage arrive.

So while $12 may be an incredibly low price for a 60" aluminum bar
clamp, what you're buying is a $12, 60" aluminum bar clamp.

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:05:11 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:

Has anyone answered the question of whether or not they are the SAME
clamps?

They're a different colour (and that's about all you can see from the
photo).

Given the way of such things, either LV are having cheap red clamps
specially re-painted to their order, or these are the same red clamps
I see eveywhere else. Now the Princess photo is unreadable, but the LV
photo is reasonably good. The LV clamps aren't the same as the red
ones I have, and strongly suspect mine are the same as the Princess
ones.

Do Princess Auto have any good deals on KlueHammahs ? We clearly need
one.

One thing Lee Valley don't sell though:
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/clueiron/

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:05:11 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:


Has anyone answered the question of whether or not they are the SAME
clamps?

JP


I have this Rolex I got for only twenty bucks - no, really!

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:35:27 -0400, Tom Watson
wrote:

I have this Rolex I got for only twenty bucks - no, really!

My "Rolex" is an expensive one - a whole $50 in Singapore. It's
actually a damned good watch.

And the moral ? Even amongst bottom-feeding knock-offs, there's a
gradation in quality.

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:10:36 +0100, Andy Dingley
wrote:

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 22:05:11 -0400, Jay Pique
wrote:

Has anyone answered the question of whether or not they are the SAME
clamps?

They're a different colour (and that's about all you can see from the
photo).

Given the way of such things, either LV are having cheap red clamps
specially re-painted to their order, or these are the same red clamps
I see eveywhere else. Now the Princess photo is unreadable, but the LV
photo is reasonably good. The LV clamps aren't the same as the red
ones I have, and strongly suspect mine are the same as the Princess
ones.

Soooo...we still don't know if they're the same clamps, albeit with
different paint.

Do Princess Auto have any good deals on KlueHammahs ? We clearly need
one.

Clearly? I'm a huge Lee Valley fan Andy, and as such I'd like to be
able to tell Robert to go **** himself after I confirm that the
Princess Auto clamp is of much inferior quality to the one provided by
LV.

In the alternative, if they are the same clamps, I'd like to be able
to say to Robert "thanks for the heads up, NOW go **** yourself".

One thing Lee Valley don't sell though:
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/clueiron/

Hey man, I'm on your side. Chill out - you're only feeding his need.

JP

Hahahahaha - you dill - that was YOUR message quoted back - RE-read my
text..

Hahahaha.

Plonk

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:34:59 +1000, "Mike Richardson"
wrote:

Listen you silly little prick.

Not nice Mike. Grow up will ya!


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"Mike Richardson" wrote in message ...
Hahahahaha - you dill - that was YOUR message quoted back - RE-read my
text..

Hahahaha.

Plonk

Mike, I finally get my saw on Wed! Picking it up from Leda (not a great deal
$-wise, but I get a lot of advice and other help from the seller)

http://www.europac.com.tw/01_Woodworking_Machinery/Sawing_Machines/Tilting_Arbor_Saw/03_tilting_arbor_saw.htm

How is that new saw of yours going?

cheers,

Greg