http://www.crscientific.com/glassretort.html

On 27 Oct 2004 21:19:04 -0700, (ktc) wrote:

Point well taken. One of the consequences of this mentality is our
obsession with the idea that every kid has to go to college. For those
who want to go into a field where college is really required fine, but
not every kid wants to persue those jobs. Meanwhile there are real
shortages of talent in many craft and trade areas like woodworking.
Custom shops are begging for young talented people. Some of the trade
groups in this area are setting up apprentice programs where the
students are paid good wages to take part in the program, just to get
some people into the system. Any colleges payingyou to go
there...unless you play football or basketball? After I retired from
my first career I started teaching computer courses at a local college
and I had this argument with other members of the faculty. They
disagreed but their only real argument came down to better pay. I then
asked them how much they would charge to tutor a student on Saturday
and they quoted variouus amounts. I took the highest and challenged
them to get a plumber to come out the following weekend for that
hourly rate and there was a long silence. A person should be judged by
his or her talent, not his or her field of work.

Bravo, and thank you! I find it amusing sometimes that people look
down their noses at tradesmen, assuming that we're all ignorant clods,
when most shop work requires not only a great deal of problem-solving
ability, but a quite a lot of math as well. Calculating compound
angles, spring force, speeds and feed rates and dozens of other things
is not for the faint of heart when the products you're making must be
right not only the first time, but every time! That isn't to say that
office work isn't stressful and difficult at times as well- but that
sure doesn't make a craftsman stupid just because he (or she, for that
matter) has some grease on his shirt.

The sad part is a lot
of those kids who are pressured into going to college wind up with no
degree and a big student loan debt the those who pushed them into
going to college do not seem to want to help pay off.

ROFL! You mean like all those kids that go to school for business or
liberal arts? Even a science degree doesn't always mean much- I have
a friend who got his degree in comp. science from the University of
Wisconsin Madison, and he's been selling TVs at a Best Buy for the
past several years...

Ken


"mel" wrote in message ...
What drives the intellectual analyst? An attempt to find the answer to his
own flaws by attempting to identify similar traits in others? Could it be
that the absence of his own paternal relationship doesn't allow him to
possess the ability to correctly characterize those relationships shared by
others? The insecurities of being devoid of all emotion and experience? The
realization that intellect doesn't allow for an explanation to that empty
void in one's soul? Why does the white-collar intellect feel so threatened
by the so-called blue-collar common man? The realization that the
dependency is one way? If we removed one or the other from the face of this
earth who'd have a better chance of survival?

Insecurity motivates the intellect to attempt to point out a level of
significance for his own life. A level he lacks the ability to earn. A
level that only exists in his own deeply rooted desire to measure up to the
standards set by a paternal relationship that never existed. Why is it this
same boy will never matured into a self sufficient man? A lack of
understanding the feeling one gets from seeing the product of one's
imagination becoming a reality through application of skill, perseverance
and effort? The lack of ability to achieve anything of significance?

Whether a hobbyist, craftsman or professional..... woodworkers possess one
common trait. The ability to attempt without the crippling fear of failure.

"Prometheus" wrote in message
...
ROFL! You mean like all those kids that go to school for business or
liberal arts? Even a science degree doesn't always mean much- I have
a friend who got his degree in comp. science from the University of
Wisconsin Madison, and he's been selling TVs at a Best Buy for the
past several years...

When I enlisted in USN in 1955, green as grass farm kid, I wanted to be a
"Driver" in the Seabees, but they stuck me in Electronics Tech school. When
I questioned this, I was informed that I had good math & mechanical scores
on my basic tests, and these qualities were needed to be an ET. Left an E5,
and I did support my family decently for 27yr. as a field tech for NCR Corp.
working on large scale EDP systems. To have a "blow-off" valve for the
stress from that, went back into the Naval Reserve and cross-rated to
Equipment Operator in the Seabees. I loved it, had a "feel" for it and still
do like heavy equipment. No college, just a long "life experience". It also
gave me the opening into driving truck when I couldn't take the tech life
any more.

2nd example:

In the '60's, my BIL(wife's youngest brother) left USN, did college in
Phoenix on GI Bill as a business major. When he graduated, best job he could
get was managing a 7-11. Ended up joining USAF(fiancé was a military brat,
convinced him to do it), became a C-130 navigator. Retired a few years back
as a Lt. Colonel, having earned a couple more degrees under USAF programs.
He now teaches part time @ Letourneau & another college in Longview, TX, and
is a full time Baptist Minister.

--
Nahmie
The law of intelligent tinkering: save all the parts.

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
http://www.crscientific.com/glassretort.html

No, this one
http://www.kleinbottle.com/
pick the size you need.
Joe

"Man In The Doorway" wrote in message roups.com...
What drives the common woodworker? A deeply suppressed desire to please
the long deceased father who never gave him love as a child? The need
to be seen as an alpha male by everyone else around him? The
insecurities of being a non-intellectual blue-collar common man with
calluses on his hands and feet?

Why do hobbyist woodworkers feel the need to own the same caliber tools
as the professionals? Is there really anything wrong with Craftsman or
Black and Decker products? Probably not. Insecurity motivates too many
woodworkers to waste hard earned cash on tools they have absolutely no
use for. Why do they feel such a need to show off, when nobody really
cares what they own? .... when nobody really cares about their
projects? .... when anyone could go out and buy the same desk, futon,
or humidor for half of what is costs to build one?

Insecurity!

Let me guess..Your wife is getting screwed by a woodworker?

Joe Gorman wrote in message ...
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
http://www.crscientific.com/glassretort.html

No, this one
http://www.kleinbottle.com/
pick the size you need.
Joe

With mine you can make wood alcohol, with yours you can drink it...

--

FF

Australopithecus scobis wrote:
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 18:25:29 -0400, J T wrote:


Damn, right, they don't last any time at all. Why my B&D sabre saw
only lasted 25-26 years. Pitiful. And, my B&D 21-22 year old circular
saw is probably gonna die any day now. Shameful. Not to mention my
almost 30 years old B&D drill. Disgusting.


I think the key to you two gentlemen's disagreement lies in the age of the
tools mentioned above. The question on the floor is the quality of
present-day tools by these manufacturers.


Got me one of those B&D drills the year I got married 1967, still have
it and it still works well, even had smoke coming out of it about 20
years ago when I used it to hone the cylinders of an engine I was
rebuilding. Couple years ago I thought something a little bigger than
1/4 inch drive and variable speed would be nice. Went in to the local
Borg and lo and behold they had this red plastic skil thing in the
clearance bin for 20 bucks. Then we bought a new house a year ago and I
had to put some holes in the concrete basement. - Tool sale some
company set up in a local hall to sell Chinese knockoff junk. Did get
some clamps for from 3 - 6 bucks each depending on size, they work fine.
I like them even better than the 6" bessey F clamps I have their
handles have grooves in them so my hand doesn't slip when tightening or
loosening them. Then I saw it a 1/2" hammer drill for 29 bucks.
Figured if it lasted through the holes I had to do it would have paid
for itself right there. Almost made it too. Stopped dead in the 3rd
(last) hole. Used the B&D to finish up. Didn't expect much from the
hammer drill for 29 bucks, the company that made it was so proud of
their work they didn't even put their name on it, but less than 3 holes.
Took it apart and found where the wire which had been crimped on the
brush spring came apart, soldered it and the drill works fine now for
how long who knows.

Took up woodorking a couple years ago when I retired and figured I
should get a router and having had good luck with my B&D drill and not
having a clue what I was doing I bought a 2HP (ya right) B&D plunge
router. The guy who designed that one should be buried up to his neck
in an anthill where every person that bought a tool he designed can come
and watch. Works fine if you don't mind the fact that there are no add
on accessorys that will fit it and there is no fine height adjustment so
you spend 1/2 an hour our so trying to get the bit height right.
Needless to say when I get my new one later this year it will NOT be B&D.
Rick

Can't recall exactly either. So, I guess we'll have to wait until the
DVD set of the original episodes comes out in the next few months.

Renata

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:24:30 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Renata wrote:

Or, if you're into "advanced" "power(?)" tools - bone knives and
stone axes.
[Does anyone remember the original Star Trek?]

Wasn't that "attempting to make a mnemonic memory circuit out of stone
knives and bear skins" in "City on the Edge of Forever" (geez--I can't
believe that I know things like that--get an effing _life_ why don't I) or
are you thinking of a different episode?

Renata

BTW, quite funny (the reply)!

In article ,
Renata wrote:
Can't recall exactly either. So, I guess we'll have to wait until the
DVD set of the original episodes comes out in the next few months.

"Stone knives and bear skins" is accurate; the rest of the quote is
close, but not exact. there are a number of (minor) variations of the quote
cited on-line -- differing only in the wording between 'circuit' and 'stone'.
The form that agrees with my recollection is:
"I am endeavoring, ma'am,
to construct a mnemonic memory circuit
using stone knives and bearskins."


Incidentally, "The City on the Edge of Forever" was written by Harlan Ellison.


Renata

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:24:30 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

Renata wrote:

Or, if you're into "advanced" "power(?)" tools - bone knives and
stone axes.
[Does anyone remember the original Star Trek?]

Wasn't that "attempting to make a mnemonic memory circuit out of stone
knives and bear skins" in "City on the Edge of Forever" (geez--I can't
believe that I know things like that--get an effing _life_ why don't I) or
are you thinking of a different episode?

Renata

BTW, quite funny (the reply)!