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  #1   Report Post  
ississauga
 
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Default How to install hardwood flooring the wrong way?

If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.
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AL
 
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I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
in order.

Is ississauga related to Mississauga?

"ississauga" wrote in message
m...
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.



  #3   Report Post  
AL
 
Posts: n/a
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I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
in order.

Is ississauga related to Mississauga?

"ississauga" wrote in message
m...
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.



  #4   Report Post  
Suzie-Q
 
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Default

In article lZ82d.57555$D%.14343@attbi_s51, "AL" wrote:

- I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
- the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
- be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
- in order.

Or maybe it should be installed in the winter? Or would that
lead to buckling in the summer?
--
8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail)
~~~~~~
"I reserve the absolute right to be smarter
today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
***Revelation 22:12*** ICQ: 349878998
  #5   Report Post  
Suzie-Q
 
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In article lZ82d.57555$D%.14343@attbi_s51, "AL" wrote:

- I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
- the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
- be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
- in order.

Or maybe it should be installed in the winter? Or would that
lead to buckling in the summer?
--
8^)~~~ Sue (remove the x to e-mail)
~~~~~~
"I reserve the absolute right to be smarter
today than I was yesterday." -Adlai Stevenson

http://www.suzanne-eckhardt.com/
***Revelation 22:12*** ICQ: 349878998


  #6   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
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AL said:

I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
in order.


Or take the opportunity to sell them a furnace humidifier as well.
It has worked wonders for our house and furniture, and an added
benefit is that you are less susceptible to colds.
FWIW,

Greg G.
  #7   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
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Default

AL said:

I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
in order.


Or take the opportunity to sell them a furnace humidifier as well.
It has worked wonders for our house and furniture, and an added
benefit is that you are less susceptible to colds.
FWIW,

Greg G.
  #8   Report Post  
Eric Johnson
 
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Default

My mistake was to use the wrong fasteners, get a proper flooring
installation tool and my experience would be to recommend staples. There are
2 or 3 brands of flooring staplers available out there.


  #9   Report Post  
Eric Johnson
 
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My mistake was to use the wrong fasteners, get a proper flooring
installation tool and my experience would be to recommend staples. There are
2 or 3 brands of flooring staplers available out there.


  #10   Report Post  
SteveC1280
 
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If you can, stack the wood in the house with air spaces between boards for a
week or so to acclimate to the moisture conditions in the house. I had some
freshly kiln dried flooring buckle after I installed it acclimated to the
house.

Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.


  #11   Report Post  
SteveC1280
 
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If you can, stack the wood in the house with air spaces between boards for a
week or so to acclimate to the moisture conditions in the house. I had some
freshly kiln dried flooring buckle after I installed it acclimated to the
house.

Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.
  #12   Report Post  
Jim Behning
 
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You read instructions that state to allow the wood to acclimate. My
house had no AC when it was being built. The AC or heat has been
running post installation and finishing for the last 6 years. The
humidity was 60-80% when the flooring was installed and the temp was
10-20 degrees warmer. The wood may never see those conditions again.
In an existing house the acclimation to the environement is possible.

That said if you go into Atlanta houses that have hardwood installed
back in the 1940s and 50s you see lots of gaps now. I suspect that has
something to do with AC installed in the 80s and 90s. My parent's
house built about 1900 in Cleveland Ohio had pretty tight flooring. We
never had AC and the hot water radiators had humidifying trays on
them. My frugal Dad rarely had the heat set above 68 so the house did
not dry out the way things can here in the south with AC.

emove (SteveC1280) wrote:

If you can, stack the wood in the house with air spaces between boards for a
week or so to acclimate to the moisture conditions in the house. I had some
freshly kiln dried flooring buckle after I installed it acclimated to the
house.

Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.


  #13   Report Post  
Jim Behning
 
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You read instructions that state to allow the wood to acclimate. My
house had no AC when it was being built. The AC or heat has been
running post installation and finishing for the last 6 years. The
humidity was 60-80% when the flooring was installed and the temp was
10-20 degrees warmer. The wood may never see those conditions again.
In an existing house the acclimation to the environement is possible.

That said if you go into Atlanta houses that have hardwood installed
back in the 1940s and 50s you see lots of gaps now. I suspect that has
something to do with AC installed in the 80s and 90s. My parent's
house built about 1900 in Cleveland Ohio had pretty tight flooring. We
never had AC and the hot water radiators had humidifying trays on
them. My frugal Dad rarely had the heat set above 68 so the house did
not dry out the way things can here in the south with AC.

emove (SteveC1280) wrote:

If you can, stack the wood in the house with air spaces between boards for a
week or so to acclimate to the moisture conditions in the house. I had some
freshly kiln dried flooring buckle after I installed it acclimated to the
house.

Remove the 'remove' in my address to e:mail me.


  #14   Report Post  
Wilson
 
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Use a vapor barrier below the floor, especially over basement/crawl space.
If there's a crawl space, put plastic on the ground there too.
Wilson
"ississauga" wrote in message
m...
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.



  #15   Report Post  
Wilson
 
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Use a vapor barrier below the floor, especially over basement/crawl space.
If there's a crawl space, put plastic on the ground there too.
Wilson
"ississauga" wrote in message
m...
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.





  #16   Report Post  
dadiOH
 
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Default

ississauga wrote:
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3
inches wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.


Assure that your first courses are dead straight and very firmly fastened.

--
dadiOH
_____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.0...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
____________________________


  #17   Report Post  
dadiOH
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ississauga wrote:
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3
inches wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.


Assure that your first courses are dead straight and very firmly fastened.

--
dadiOH
_____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.0...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
____________________________


  #20   Report Post  
Jana
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Greg G. wrote in message . ..
AL said:

I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
in order.


Or take the opportunity to sell them a furnace humidifier as well.
It has worked wonders for our house and furniture, and an added
benefit is that you are less susceptible to colds.
FWIW,

Greg G.


The key to avoiding seasonal shrinkage is, as said above, moisture
content. Buy it from a supplier where you know it hasn't been sitting
around picking up moisture in warehouses or conatainers. If it's dried
right, there should be no problems. If the supplier says this is
normal...go somewhere else.


  #21   Report Post  
Jana
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Greg G. wrote in message . ..
AL said:

I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the winter is
in order.


Or take the opportunity to sell them a furnace humidifier as well.
It has worked wonders for our house and furniture, and an added
benefit is that you are less susceptible to colds.
FWIW,

Greg G.


The key to avoiding seasonal shrinkage is, as said above, moisture
content. Buy it from a supplier where you know it hasn't been sitting
around picking up moisture in warehouses or conatainers. If it's dried
right, there should be no problems. If the supplier says this is
normal...go somewhere else.
  #22   Report Post  
JohnT.
 
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Default

Is such 3/4" thick flooring like this tongue and groove, or just
straight sided? Do you use those hammer type floor nailers? I'd think
Oak would be pretty hard to do with those big flat floor nails.

John "gots a lot of rough sawn oak and a carpet that needs replacing"

  #23   Report Post  
JohnT.
 
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Is such 3/4" thick flooring like this tongue and groove, or just
straight sided? Do you use those hammer type floor nailers? I'd think
Oak would be pretty hard to do with those big flat floor nails.

John "gots a lot of rough sawn oak and a carpet that needs replacing"

  #24   Report Post  
dadiOH
 
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Default

JohnT. wrote:
Is such 3/4" thick flooring like this tongue and groove


Yes (normally)
_________________

Do you use those hammer type floor nailers?


That or one using air
_________________

I'd think Oak would be pretty hard to do with those big flat floor
nails.


Not if you avoid the Bostich nailer and use the Porta Nailer one...it has a
ratchet that holds the ram down until the nail (serrated cleat, actually) is
totally seated. That means you can whack it more than once; with the
Bostich, one whack is all you get, terrible tool.

--
dadiOH
_____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.0...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
____________________________


  #25   Report Post  
dadiOH
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JohnT. wrote:
Is such 3/4" thick flooring like this tongue and groove


Yes (normally)
_________________

Do you use those hammer type floor nailers?


That or one using air
_________________

I'd think Oak would be pretty hard to do with those big flat floor
nails.


Not if you avoid the Bostich nailer and use the Porta Nailer one...it has a
ratchet that holds the ram down until the nail (serrated cleat, actually) is
totally seated. That means you can whack it more than once; with the
Bostich, one whack is all you get, terrible tool.

--
dadiOH
_____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.0...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
____________________________




  #26   Report Post  
Julie
 
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Default

"Joe" wrote
:
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.


Not really a mistake, but remove the base trim before installing
the flooring, unlike all the TV experts I've seen. A piece of 1/4
round chunked onto the last board looks tacky to me.


A-men!

JSH


  #27   Report Post  
Julie
 
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Default

"Joe" wrote
:
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.


Not really a mistake, but remove the base trim before installing
the flooring, unlike all the TV experts I've seen. A piece of 1/4
round chunked onto the last board looks tacky to me.


A-men!

JSH


  #32   Report Post  
ToolMiser
 
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My mistake was while operating the "manual" nailer that I hit my finger when
the hammer glanced off the window trim when I got close to the wall. It was
time for me to call it a day, and I had an ugly fingernail to show off for a
long time. Best part was that I didn't use any profanity!
  #33   Report Post  
ToolMiser
 
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My mistake was while operating the "manual" nailer that I hit my finger when
the hammer glanced off the window trim when I got close to the wall. It was
time for me to call it a day, and I had an ugly fingernail to show off for a
long time. Best part was that I didn't use any profanity!
  #36   Report Post  
Dave
 
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The furnace humidifier is a good idea. When I did my floor, I did 2000
Sq Ft over a couple of weeks. I stacked the wood in the room for six weeks
prior to the job, but I neglected to put spacers between layers. Oops. The
first 1500 ft went well, but for the last 500 ft I got sloppy and ended up
with a lot of cracks. I'm not sure if it was humidity in those bottom layers
in the stack, or if it was just careless work on the home stretch. Those
cracks are a constant reminder for me that I can do better if I have another
chance. The power staplers save effort and make a good job. I put decorative
inlays around the stair landings, really nice effect. We put hardwood in the
kitchen and around a toilet, not the greatest idea but it worked out ok. I
wouldn't do that again. I found a videotape of how to do hardwood floors,
sold over the internet, and found that really useful.

Dave


"Jana" wrote in message
om...
Greg G. wrote in message
. ..
AL said:

I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make
sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are
to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the
winter is
in order.


Or take the opportunity to sell them a furnace humidifier as well.
It has worked wonders for our house and furniture, and an added
benefit is that you are less susceptible to colds.
FWIW,

Greg G.


The key to avoiding seasonal shrinkage is, as said above, moisture
content. Buy it from a supplier where you know it hasn't been sitting
around picking up moisture in warehouses or conatainers. If it's dried
right, there should be no problems. If the supplier says this is
normal...go somewhere else.



  #37   Report Post  
Dave
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The furnace humidifier is a good idea. When I did my floor, I did 2000
Sq Ft over a couple of weeks. I stacked the wood in the room for six weeks
prior to the job, but I neglected to put spacers between layers. Oops. The
first 1500 ft went well, but for the last 500 ft I got sloppy and ended up
with a lot of cracks. I'm not sure if it was humidity in those bottom layers
in the stack, or if it was just careless work on the home stretch. Those
cracks are a constant reminder for me that I can do better if I have another
chance. The power staplers save effort and make a good job. I put decorative
inlays around the stair landings, really nice effect. We put hardwood in the
kitchen and around a toilet, not the greatest idea but it worked out ok. I
wouldn't do that again. I found a videotape of how to do hardwood floors,
sold over the internet, and found that really useful.

Dave


"Jana" wrote in message
om...
Greg G. wrote in message
. ..
AL said:

I'm hardly an expert, but I would say a mistake would be to not make
sure
the paying customer understands that humidity related shrinkage gaps are
to
be expected. Maybe a mockup showing what it will look like in the
winter is
in order.


Or take the opportunity to sell them a furnace humidifier as well.
It has worked wonders for our house and furniture, and an added
benefit is that you are less susceptible to colds.
FWIW,

Greg G.


The key to avoiding seasonal shrinkage is, as said above, moisture
content. Buy it from a supplier where you know it hasn't been sitting
around picking up moisture in warehouses or conatainers. If it's dried
right, there should be no problems. If the supplier says this is
normal...go somewhere else.



  #38   Report Post  
Jim Behning
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I rented a pnuematic flooring stapler that required the big hammer
swing. It helps tighten up the wood as you are nailing. I have used
the old fashion non power assisted where you wack the heck out of the
nailer. The pnuematic assist is much easier but you still get a
workout.

All the flooring in my limited flooring experience has be tongue and
groove where you nail into the top of the tongue. Or iis it the top of
the groove. If you have a hardwood flooring supply house nearby they
have installation guides.

"JohnT." wrote:

Is such 3/4" thick flooring like this tongue and groove, or just
straight sided? Do you use those hammer type floor nailers? I'd think
Oak would be pretty hard to do with those big flat floor nails.

John "gots a lot of rough sawn oak and a carpet that needs replacing"


  #39   Report Post  
Jim Behning
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I rented a pnuematic flooring stapler that required the big hammer
swing. It helps tighten up the wood as you are nailing. I have used
the old fashion non power assisted where you wack the heck out of the
nailer. The pnuematic assist is much easier but you still get a
workout.

All the flooring in my limited flooring experience has be tongue and
groove where you nail into the top of the tongue. Or iis it the top of
the groove. If you have a hardwood flooring supply house nearby they
have installation guides.

"JohnT." wrote:

Is such 3/4" thick flooring like this tongue and groove, or just
straight sided? Do you use those hammer type floor nailers? I'd think
Oak would be pretty hard to do with those big flat floor nails.

John "gots a lot of rough sawn oak and a carpet that needs replacing"


  #40   Report Post  
Joe C
 
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Mistakes:
Using a manual nailer
Nailing into the groove instead of the tongue
Using staples instead of nails

Other suggestions.
Put down a long, dead straight board that will serve as your first course.
IME, this is better than starting off with the actual flooring material
since you can nail this sacrificial course straight down into the subfloor
instead of using the angled nailer, thereby (mostly) assuring it won't move
during the nailing process. Don't remove this board until you have butted
at least 4 full courses against it, at which point the courses shouldn't
move, no matter how much banging (manual or pneumatic) you're doing.

Make very accurate measurements wall to wall in various parts of the room to
determine where to put this backer board. Be sure you're not going to end
up with a 1/4" last course up against a wall. Opinions may differ, but I
put my backer board in the middle of the room, then used a tight
groove-to-groove spline so I'd always be nailing into the tongues (sp?) as I
changed direction and started working toward the opposite wall.

Just one amatuer's opinion based on a job that turned out *very* well.

Joe C.



"ississauga" wrote in message
m...
If you have installed hardwood what mistakes have you made? The
hardwood I am installing is the 3/4 inch thick type, about 2-3 inches
wide, oak and maple mostly, finished type.

I am installing hardwood flooring for my customers. There is a big
demand for it here, as many people want me to replace their carpets
with hardwood. I have being reading books and now work with a
professional installer but there is nothing like learning from
mistakes.



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