krw wrote:

You do today, in those fields (veterinary medicine and
electrical engineering) ;-)

OK, good point.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

LOL, That would be like asking for a suggestion to learn
a language and not indicating which language you want
to learn.

Right, but what language is this then? Construction, yes?

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/tr...ree-house.html

(Actually it is HTML LOL)

OK, let's rephrase the question - you are right! I'd like to
read a book that will teach me some formal way of drawing this
place, as described in three informal photo blog posts.

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/tr...ree-house.html
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/tr...se-pulley.html
https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/tr...e-rooftop.html

I'd like to draw a formal drawing of that project.

It doesn't have to be excellent in any way but it has to be
correct formally.

While _I will_ use these drawings practically, still, as big
a part for ME of this PARTICULAR drawing project is, God
willing, learning how to do that, so I have it for future
projects as well, or just to make me happy, even. Just get the
foot thru the door, after that, I can bang the rest of my body
and head indoors, no problem.

The book has to has illustrations, correct terminology and not
be to eterical - hands on, but can be a sound mix of theory
and best practices. For the literate, practically working
engineer in the everyday sense. DIG? OK, so while it was
right of you to ask for specifications, after writing this,
I don't want to do it again, if you don't understand it by now
I can't help you - sorry. Please ignore this disruption in
your drawing session

So if you guys can decide on onee book, I'll mail my book shop
and order it literally tomorrow, unless you reach a consensus
in under one minute and one hour, in which case it will happen
today wait, now it is only 55 minutes! haha

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

On Tue, 02 Mar 2021 22:51:10 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

Leon wrote:

LOL, That would be like asking for a suggestion to learn
a language and not indicating which language you want
to learn.

Right, but what language is this then? Construction, yes?

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/tr...ree-house.html

(Actually it is HTML LOL)

Architecture is the language you're looking to learn for that one. If
you search for "architectural drawing textbook" you'll find a range of
options--which ones are good and which ones aren't I have no idea.
Note--the "book" is important--otherwise you get a bunch of fonts.

J. Clarke wrote:

Architecture is the language you're looking to learn for
that one. If you search for "architectural drawing textbook"
you'll find a range of options--which ones are good and
which ones aren't I have no idea. Note--the "book" is
important--otherwise you get a bunch of fonts.

Please respond in the other thread where the question has been
specified and include the book details.

Here is a Biblatex entry, but use whatever form you prefer, of
course

@book{all-road-bike-revolution,
author = {Jan Heine},
isbn = {978-0-9765460-5-4},
pages = {256},
publisher = {Bicycle Quarterly},
title = {The All-Road Bike Revolution: fast, comfortable, reliable},
year = {2020}
}

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

On 3/2/2021 3:49 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

So pick an area, style of drawing you want to do.
Each is like a different language.

OK:

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html



Architectural Drafting.

on Mon, 01 Mar 2021 21:25:05 -0500 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 20:32:34 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

on Sun, 28 Feb 2021 23:14:43 -0500 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 21:21:14 -0500, Bill wrote:

wrote:

Technology is often better than "GET OFF MY LAWN!". ;-)



I know what you mean, but I ENJOY "Get Off Of My Lawn!!!" : )

My dad used to keep a ledger of every purchase he made for his
house/garden (even packs of seeds!) Me, I use an Excel spreadsheet!
: )
Besides of keeping track of model numbers, dates, and phone numbers,
there's a "nostalgia factor" to having the spreadsheet. Like, we
planted that tree in 20XX...

Besides my schematic entry tool, Excel is my most important tool. I'm
too cheap to buy it for home. There is a freeware (or used to be
anyway) spreadsheet but I hated the UI and it was too hard to remember
both.

Open Office - Calc. I've been using it for years. Main issue is
to remember that in Calc, the separator is a semi-colon, not a comma
as in Excel.

The shortcuts are all different, colors, formatting, and
equations/references, IIRC. It's a RPITA to be multilingual. Maybe
after I retire I can forget Excel, finally!

Which separators? Import text? They can be changed during import
with Excel.

In formulas and the like e.g. =Left(A2,3) in Excel becomes
=Left(A2;3) in Calc.
It can be a real PITA when you can't see the itty bitty font on
the screen, and somewhere in the long
=CONCATENATE(Raw.X4;IF(ISNUMBER(OxC.L4);;CONCATENA TE(CHAR(10);"††
";OxC.L4));IF(ISNUMBER(StA.L4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(1 0);"†
";StA.L4));IF(ISNUMBER(AJH.L4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(1 0);"{A}
";AJH.L4));IF(ISNUMBER(PDH.L4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(1 0);"[P]
";PDH.L4));IF(ISNUMBER(SCA.L4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(1 0);"SCA
";SCA.L4));IF(ISNUMBER('SCA-RF'.H4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(10);"SCArf
";'SCA-RF'.H4));IF(ISNUMBER(SqD.L4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(10) ;"";SqD.L4));IF(ISNUMBER(RE.G4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR( 10);RE.G4))
;IF(ISNUMBER(RFE.K4);;CONCATENATE(CHAR(10);RFE.K4) ) )
is where I typed a comma, not a semi-colon.

For grinds and giggles, that last reference is the another sheet RFE,
cell K4 which has this formula:
=IF(ISNA( OFFSET(RFE.$B$3;MATCH(MONTH(Raw.H4)*100+DAY(Raw.H4 );
RFE.$A$3:RFE.$A$54;0)-1;0));0;OFFSET(RFE.$B$3;MATCH(MONTH(Raw.H4)*100+DA Y(Raw.H4);
RFE.$A$3:RFE.$A$54;0)-1;0))
the result of which is 0 (zero)

yes, proably more than you care to know, but I'm some what proud
of it. And no, I didn't start out with this level of complexity, but
worked up to it.
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Us(tm) to serve as the new Them(tm)

Emanuel Berg on Tue, 02 Mar 2021 06:05:55 +0100
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
Eli the Bearded wrote:

That one seems to be popular. Amazon has new printings, and
the used ones on Abe Books are mostly more than the new.

Argh, so many suggestion... why don't you guys decide on onee
book? I'll be happy to order that.



Ah, but that's like asking about "standards" Of which is it often
said "The Good thing about Standard Editions is that there are so many
to pick from."
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Us(tm) to serve as the new Them(tm)

On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:
Emanuel Berg wrote:
Bill wrote:

I got one that was recommended here. I could look up the
title, but that's not really important. I just wanted to
mention that the used book stores (abebooks.com, etc.) have
these books-and they are priced right. Such a book will
probably have been published between the 50s and 60s. I can
come up with the title if desired.

Yes, please do 2nd-hand books are great. As are sometimes
brand new books. And even future books I guess Don't judge
a book by its publishing year


I think it was Lew Hodgett, who was a valuable contributing member
of this newsgroup, and boat lover, for many years, who recommended the
following book to me:Â*Â* "Fundamentals of Engineering Drawing", by French
and Vierck, McGraw-Hill, 1960.Â* I have the 2nd edition, published in
1966.Â*Â*Â* It will even help you to compute the values of the
trigonometric functions, sin(x), etc.,Â* using your slide rule!
The drawings in the book are at a level suitable for beginning
mechanical engineers!Â*Â* Now that I have it out, I think I'll review it
some!Â* : )Â*Â* Lew also liked the woodworking book, "Boat Joinery &
Cabinetmaking", and I collected that book too, and even bought a 2nd
copy to give to a friend.



I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 19:44:24 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:
Emanuel Berg wrote:
Bill wrote:

I got one that was recommended here. I could look up the
title, but that's not really important. I just wanted to
mention that the used book stores (abebooks.com, etc.) have
these books-and they are priced right. Such a book will
probably have been published between the 50s and 60s. I can
come up with the title if desired.

Yes, please do 2nd-hand books are great. As are sometimes
brand new books. And even future books I guess Don't judge
a book by its publishing year


I think it was Lew Hodgett, who was a valuable contributing member
of this newsgroup, and boat lover, for many years, who recommended the
following book to me:** "Fundamentals of Engineering Drawing", by French
and Vierck, McGraw-Hill, 1960.* I have the 2nd edition, published in
1966.*** It will even help you to compute the values of the
trigonometric functions, sin(x), etc.,* using your slide rule!
The drawings in the book are at a level suitable for beginning
mechanical engineers!** Now that I have it out, I think I'll review it
some!* : )** Lew also liked the woodworking book, "Boat Joinery &
Cabinetmaking", and I collected that book too, and even bought a 2nd
copy to give to a friend.



I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

In particular, green ones.

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 19:25:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/2/2021 3:49 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

So pick an area, style of drawing you want to do.
Each is like a different language.

OK:

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html



Architectural Drafting.

Dynamics. How do you model the trees?

On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 20:31:08 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
wrote:

In rec.woodworking, wrote:
Obviously English. Learn that and you've learned all of the others,
since English is a language stolen from a hundred others. ;-)

English usually doesn't steal grammar from other langages, just words.

Grammar too, just all of them mashed together at random.

OK, it has some special (read; weird) rules not found elsewhere, like
order of adjectives. Get them out of order and you sound like a true
moron (but no one can tell you why ;-).

To wit:

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/...t-know-we-know

"Adjectives in English absolutely have to be in this order:
opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun. So you
can have a lovely little old rectangular green French silver
whittling knife. But if you mess with that word order in the
slightest you'll sound like a maniac. It's an odd thing that every
English speaker uses that list, but almost none of us could write it
out."

I think you left out physical quality (after size) and have shape and
age reversed. It's not likely that you'll ever exhaust the list. ;-)

But you're right, I couldn't list them without help. Most don't even
know that there is a list but know something's very wrong when it's
violated. It's one of those things natural English speakers learn by
example from birth rather than by explicit rule but confuses the hell
out of those learning the language by rule. English is very hard to
learn by rule. Again, they're stolen from a hundred languages, OK,
with a good dose of randomness thrown in.

It goes on to explain the rare exception to that rule, namely ordering
vowel sounds in similar sounding words. Hence Little Red Riding Hood
(size color purpose) fits, but Big Bad Wolf (size opinion) doesn't.

Elijah
------
BBC story is by an author of a book on eloquence

Leon wrote:
On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:

I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

A book of matches??? ; )

On 3/3/2021 1:57 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:

I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

A book of matches???Â*Â* ; )



;~)

That is a YouTube video I would like to see!

On 3/2/2021 8:37 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 19:25:02 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/2/2021 3:49 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

So pick an area, style of drawing you want to do.
Each is like a different language.

OK:

https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html



Architectural Drafting.

Dynamics. How do you model the trees?



From the Sketchup Warehouse. ;~)

But also a good point for any accuracy.

On 3/2/2021 8:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 2 Mar 2021 20:31:08 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
wrote:

In rec.woodworking, wrote:
Obviously English. Learn that and you've learned all of the others,
since English is a language stolen from a hundred others. ;-)

English usually doesn't steal grammar from other langages, just words.

Grammar too, just all of them mashed together at random.

OK, it has some special (read; weird) rules not found elsewhere, like
order of adjectives. Get them out of order and you sound like a true
moron (but no one can tell you why ;-).

To wit:

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/...t-know-we-know

"Adjectives in English absolutely have to be in this order:
opinion-size-age-shape-colour-origin-material-purpose Noun. So you
can have a lovely little old rectangular green French silver
whittling knife. But if you mess with that word order in the
slightest you'll sound like a maniac. It's an odd thing that every
English speaker uses that list, but almost none of us could write it
out."

I think you left out physical quality (after size) and have shape and
age reversed. It's not likely that you'll ever exhaust the list. ;-)

But you're right, I couldn't list them without help. Most don't even
know that there is a list but know something's very wrong when it's
violated. It's one of those things natural English speakers learn by
example from birth rather than by explicit rule but confuses the hell
out of those learning the language by rule. English is very hard to
learn by rule. Again, they're stolen from a hundred languages, OK,
with a good dose of randomness thrown in.

OR if you live in Texas..... The born and raised near and on both sides
of the Mexican/ US border speak a version of Spanish, TexMex, not the
style of Mexican food. I know many Hispanic/Mexican/Americans that
visit relatives deeper down in Mexico and can hardly understand what
they are saying.
Going to Spanish class in school the class was at least 40% Mexican
American and they had as much difficulty in the class as every one else.

I recall learning how to ask, what time is it, in Spanish. That was
funny because many of us thought the teacher was saying one of the local
radio stations call letters. KRYS




It goes on to explain the rare exception to that rule, namely ordering
vowel sounds in similar sounding words. Hence Little Red Riding Hood
(size color purpose) fits, but Big Bad Wolf (size opinion) doesn't.

Elijah
------
BBC story is by an author of a book on eloquence

Leon wrote:
On 3/3/2021 1:57 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:

I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

A book of matches???Â*Â* ; )



;~)

That is a YouTube video I would like to see!


It's my recollection from elementary school, that the native americans
used fire to help hollow-out their birch bark canoes! At that time,
I confronted my dad with the idea of doing such a cool project, but he
didn't bite.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 10:20:27 -0500, Bill wrote:

Leon wrote:
On 3/3/2021 1:57 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:

I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

A book of matches???Â*Â* ; )



;~)

That is a YouTube video I would like to see!


It's my recollection from elementary school, that the native americans
used fire to help hollow-out their birch bark canoes! At that time,
I confronted my dad with the idea of doing such a cool project, but he
didn't bite.

Dugouts, not birch-bark. Different concepts. Dugout, you cut down
tree and hollow it out. Birch bark you take the bark off a birch tree
and fit a frame inside it.

On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 08:47:11 -0600, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 3/3/2021 1:57 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:

I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

A book of matches???** ; )



;~)

That is a YouTube video I would like to see!

You've never heard of "book burning"? It's all the rage now.

Emanuel Berg wrote in :

*snip*

[1] The hand saw is 7 teeth 8 points, I understand that
definition but why is the 8 points relevant, what does it
tell that is useful that 7 teeth doesn't tell already?
Do you know? It bugs me I can't figure it out...


It's like telling you a 1/2" chisel is 12mm, but more accurate. It's just
a different way of measuring that other countries use. (TPI is US standard,
PPI is European? I think.)

Puckdropper

Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Made in PRC anyone

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

J. Clarke wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2021 10:20:27 -0500, Bill wrote:

Leon wrote:
On 3/3/2021 1:57 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:
On 2/27/2021 1:40 AM, Bill wrote:

I caught on early in my woodworking hobby
that books are cheaper than tools, though I have my fair share of both.

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool.

Which book in particular actually drills, cuts, shapes, or sands wood?

A book of matches???Â*Â* ; )



;~)

That is a YouTube video I would like to see!


It's my recollection from elementary school, that the native americans
used fire to help hollow-out their birch bark canoes! At that time,
I confronted my dad with the idea of doing such a cool project, but he
didn't bite.

Dugouts, not birch-bark. Different concepts. Dugout, you cut down
tree and hollow it out. Birch bark you take the bark off a birch tree
and fit a frame inside it.


Thank you. I was thinking about that after I posted, but I didn't have
"dugout" in my current vocabulary. Thank you for clarifying!

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Of course, as you may know, university textbooks fall into a "rigged"
(monopolistic) framework. I think that the Internet is countering that
a bit for folks who like e-books.

krw wrote:

So pick an area, style of drawing you want to do. Each is
like a different language.

OK: https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html

Architectural Drafting.

Dynamics. How do you model the trees?

A pipe perhaps. That is, a cylinder with two holes, and the
diameter of the holes cannot be bigger than the diameter of
the cylinder...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 01:52:52 -0500, Bill wrote:

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Of course, as you may know, university textbooks fall into a "rigged"
(monopolistic) framework. I think that the Internet is countering that
a bit for folks who like e-books.

I don't know how it is now but at one time people were re importing
textbooks because they were being sold for a fraction of what they
cost here.

On Thu, 04 Mar 2021 17:21:42 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

krw wrote:

So pick an area, style of drawing you want to do. Each is
like a different language.

OK: https://dataswamp.org/~incal/blog/index.html

Architectural Drafting.

Dynamics. How do you model the trees?

A pipe perhaps. That is, a cylinder with two holes, and the
diameter of the holes cannot be bigger than the diameter of
the cylinder...

What about the dynamics of building a house on top of the tree?

Le 25/02/2021 Ã* 17:09, Emanuel Berg a écritÂ*:
Anyone knows a book on doing drawings?

Like tech stuff, it can be a room but also an object like
a nail puller or whatever,

I.e., a book that attempts to help the reader teach
him/herself doing it... with terminology, methods
and examples, tools perhaps and - ah, you get it

TIA


The articles in Wikipedia: €œTechnical Drawing€� (english), «Dessin
technique» (french), €œTechnisches Zeichnen€� (german), €¦ will give you a
reliable perspective on the subject and useful references.

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 01:52:52 -0500, Bill wrote:

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Of course, as you may know, university textbooks fall into a "rigged"
(monopolistic) framework. I think that the Internet is countering that
a bit for folks who like e-books.

I don't know how it is now but at one time people were re importing
textbooks because they were being sold for a fraction of what they
cost here.


Yes, in some countries, there is little hesitation about copying
software or other publications onto a CD, and selling them for $5 on the
open market. One of the factors keeping expensive books relevant, is the
added "online-resources" (consisting of homework problems that the
student is required to do, an e-copy of the textbook, along with extra
video lectures of the material). Such a "book" may run $175, and even
a re-purchaser (i.e. every re-purchaser) of it will need to pay $75 or
so to access the online-resources for a semester or two. In some sense,
these
more expensive books serve the students more effectively than the old
ones. Many students are happy to just pay the $75 and forego a physical
copy of the textbook. On the other hand, the cost of tuition, not so
heavily subsidized by the state, as in yesteryear, makes the cost of the
textbooks a relatively small expense, even if it might reach as much as
$1000 some semesters.

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 09:18:20 -0500, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 01:52:52 -0500, Bill wrote:

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Of course, as you may know, university textbooks fall into a "rigged"
(monopolistic) framework. I think that the Internet is countering that
a bit for folks who like e-books.

I don't know how it is now but at one time people were re importing
textbooks because they were being sold for a fraction of what they
cost here.


Yes, in some countries, there is little hesitation about copying
software or other publications onto a CD, and selling them for $5 on the
open market. One of the factors keeping expensive books relevant, is the
added "online-resources" (consisting of homework problems that the
student is required to do, an e-copy of the textbook, along with extra
video lectures of the material). Such a "book" may run $175, and even
a re-purchaser (i.e. every re-purchaser) of it will need to pay $75 or
so to access the online-resources for a semester or two. In some sense,
these
more expensive books serve the students more effectively than the old
ones. Many students are happy to just pay the $75 and forego a physical
copy of the textbook. On the other hand, the cost of tuition, not so
heavily subsidized by the state, as in yesteryear, makes the cost of the
textbooks a relatively small expense, even if it might reach as much as
$1000 some semesters.

The "international editions" usually have different problem sets, or
at least different orderings.

J. Clarke wrote:
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 09:18:20 -0500, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 01:52:52 -0500, Bill wrote:

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Of course, as you may know, university textbooks fall into a "rigged"
(monopolistic) framework. I think that the Internet is countering that
a bit for folks who like e-books.

I don't know how it is now but at one time people were re importing
textbooks because they were being sold for a fraction of what they
cost here.


Yes, in some countries, there is little hesitation about copying
software or other publications onto a CD, and selling them for $5 on the
open market. One of the factors keeping expensive books relevant, is the
added "online-resources" (consisting of homework problems that the
student is required to do, an e-copy of the textbook, along with extra
video lectures of the material). Such a "book" may run $175, and even
a re-purchaser (i.e. every re-purchaser) of it will need to pay $75 or
so to access the online-resources for a semester or two. In some sense,
these
more expensive books serve the students more effectively than the old
ones. Many students are happy to just pay the $75 and forego a physical
copy of the textbook. On the other hand, the cost of tuition, not so
heavily subsidized by the state, as in yesteryear, makes the cost of the
textbooks a relatively small expense, even if it might reach as much as
$1000 some semesters.

The "international editions" usually have different problem sets, or
at least different orderings.


Even different editions of the same textbook tend to have their problems
reordered, to give students a reason to buy the relevant edition. Based
on only a few examples, I haven't noticed a difference in the content of
specific versions published in some Asian countries. Now, the paper and
printing quality, that is wholly different. Many of them are printed on
*very thin* paper. And the characters used on the cover reflect the
country from which the reproduction has been sourced.

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 14:52:38 -0500, Bill wrote:

J. Clarke wrote:
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 09:18:20 -0500, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 4 Mar 2021 01:52:52 -0500, Bill wrote:

Emanuel Berg wrote:
Leon wrote:

Yeah, many/most books can be less expensive than a tool

Maybe they can be but with the exception of power tools they
aren't, and certainly not if we talk university textbooks...

Of course, as you may know, university textbooks fall into a "rigged"
(monopolistic) framework. I think that the Internet is countering that
a bit for folks who like e-books.

I don't know how it is now but at one time people were re importing
textbooks because they were being sold for a fraction of what they
cost here.


Yes, in some countries, there is little hesitation about copying
software or other publications onto a CD, and selling them for $5 on the
open market. One of the factors keeping expensive books relevant, is the
added "online-resources" (consisting of homework problems that the
student is required to do, an e-copy of the textbook, along with extra
video lectures of the material). Such a "book" may run $175, and even
a re-purchaser (i.e. every re-purchaser) of it will need to pay $75 or
so to access the online-resources for a semester or two. In some sense,
these
more expensive books serve the students more effectively than the old
ones. Many students are happy to just pay the $75 and forego a physical
copy of the textbook. On the other hand, the cost of tuition, not so
heavily subsidized by the state, as in yesteryear, makes the cost of the
textbooks a relatively small expense, even if it might reach as much as
$1000 some semesters.

The "international editions" usually have different problem sets, or
at least different orderings.

I'm sure they do now but at one time they were exactly the same books.
It costs money to come up with different problem sets and "the rubes
will never know". In many of my classes the problem sets in the book
were only for study and had nothing to do with the class. Some had
different problem sets but most of the higher level courses didn't
have any assigned homework.

Even different editions of the same textbook tend to have their problems
reordered, to give students a reason to buy the relevant edition. Based
on only a few examples, I haven't noticed a difference in the content of
specific versions published in some Asian countries. Now, the paper and
printing quality, that is wholly different. Many of them are printed on
*very thin* paper. And the characters used on the cover reflect the
country from which the reproduction has been sourced.

As noted before, a new edition on some books came out yearly to defeat
the used book market. Another reason was to screw with the
fraternities, who had copies of previous problem sets. ... and tests.
Profs had to change tests yearly. I knew some who had a four or five
year cycle on tests, figuring that anyone who had taken that test had
moved on.