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On 9/18/2019 9:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:



[SNIP]

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.


Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.

WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


That would be true if there weren't any circuits in the panel, just the
100 amp breaker. If the power tool was on, say, a 60amp circuit
breaker, wouldn't the lights remain on assuming a separate 20amp circuit?

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On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:10:42 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 9/18/2019 9:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:



[SNIP]

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.

Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.

WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


That would be true if there weren't any circuits in the panel, just the
100 amp breaker. If the power tool was on, say, a 60amp circuit
breaker, wouldn't the lights remain on assuming a separate 20amp circuit?

His problem is when the 40 amp cabinet saw is running, with1,400
watts of shop lights and a 20 amp dust collector when both the air
conditioner and beer fridge decide to start at the same time and it
kicks the MAIN breaker in his shop sub-panel. Or the thickness planer,
drum sander, and jointer are all running along with the dust collector
and air conditioner - all on different properly sized circuits and he
decides to start the 2Hp router - you know - the old one without
soft-start that needs to be on a 20 amp breaker because it kicks a 15
every time it starts. POP goes the MAIN breaker. (mabee a few other
"power suckers" running at the same time)

Having the ONLY garage door opener means SHMBO doesn't open the garage
door at a critical point in the power consumption curve - - - -
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On 9/19/2019 12:20 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:10:42 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 9/18/2019 9:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:



[SNIP]

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.

Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.
WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


That would be true if there weren't any circuits in the panel, just the
100 amp breaker. If the power tool was on, say, a 60amp circuit
breaker, wouldn't the lights remain on assuming a separate 20amp circuit?

His problem is when the 40 amp cabinet saw is running, with1,400
watts of shop lights and a 20 amp dust collector when both the air
conditioner and beer fridge decide to start at the same time and it
kicks the MAIN breaker in his shop sub-panel. Or the thickness planer,
drum sander, and jointer are all running along with the dust collector
and air conditioner - all on different properly sized circuits and he
decides to start the 2Hp router - you know - the old one without
soft-start that needs to be on a 20 amp breaker because it kicks a 15
every time it starts. POP goes the MAIN breaker. (mabee a few other
"power suckers" running at the same time)

Having the ONLY garage door opener means SHMBO doesn't open the garage
door at a critical point in the power consumption curve - - - -


DOH! You're correct. My bad!
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On Friday, September 13, 2019 at 10:54:21 AM UTC-5, Puckdropper wrote:
I don't have as much shop space any more, as my shop now has to share
duties with a garage.

So between a bandsaw, jointer, planer, RAS, table saw, and circular saw,
what tools can be combined to cover the basic operations we need to do?
Crosscut, rip, and maybe resaw. I'm not sure I trust my RAS to rip,
it's missing important pieces like the anti-kickback pawls.

Puckdropper


If you are not comfortable with the RAS, then if you are to get rid of one, then get rid of the RAS.

I like all my tools, despite not using some of them often (enough?). There are several elements of this discussion that apply to my shop, though I have a relatively large shop - 24X30 main area, 11x24 garage area- for a hobbyist.

Recently, I find I need to consolidate or reduce some aspect of some non-power tool items. I once had my slow grinder mounted on 2X stock, clamped in place when needed. I later mounted it on a rolling cabinet, in the garage. With making space for the big jointer, I need to get rid of the cabinet. Similarly, I have an anvil on a rolling base. Both of these have foot print space I'd like to remove or reduce.

I could cite further my-shop examples related to this discussion. Rather than get rid of tools, I need to get rid of some of my lumber cache.... either make more projects or donate to someone who needs a bit of lumber. Lately, I've been posting on Craigslist, giving small caches of lumber to folks.

As stated, you know what's best for your scenario. Just use your best judgement.

Sonny
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On 9/18/2019 8:10 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/18/2019 9:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe
wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM,
Jack wrote:
Â* On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
Â*


[SNIP]

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have
been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd
have to
turn off everything else in the shop.Â* LOL.


I do have some battery backup emergency LED flood lighting in the shop.
So far they have only kicked on during my routine tests, and when we
have had a general power failure.


Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks
when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.

Â* WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


I'm not really concerend about tripping an individual breaker. The only
thing I have that might do that is the big Miller Mig Welder and I only
use it when nothing else critical is running due to fear of
electrical/RF noise causing a CNC machine to crash. I have forgotten
and used it anyway a couple times. Nothing bad happened.


That would be true if there weren't any circuits in the panel, just the
100 amp breaker.Â* If the power tool was on, say, a 60amp circuit
breaker, wouldn't the lights remain on assuming a separate 20amp circuit?



Nothing in my shop should trip its individual breaker even under peak
load except the welder listed above. I have it on a 50 amp breaker, and
the books says it should be on a 65. However, if I had say 3 2HP mills,
the 5HP mill, the 1HP mill, all hit peak load in an inside corner cut at
just the exact moment the air conditioner or the air compressor (3.7HP)
motor started up I'd be worried. Particularly if I was also taking a
heavy cut on the 3HP lathe at the same time. You might add that all up
in your head and say, "Hey that's under 70 amps," (On 230V) but that is
not accounting for the draw of all the servo and stepper motors. The
servos on one machine are setup to pull as much as 35 amps at 90VDC
each. They typically pull less than 5 amps, but in that theoretical
peak load in a poorly planned inside corner cut they could draw a lot
more. Then you have to remember that there are atleast 3 such motors on
all five CNC mills. Not all of which are that heavy, but it all adds
up. Ever one of those machines is on its own dedicated breaker sized
appropriately for the machine.

The reality is not all of those machines are running all the time even
though the goal is to have them all running when I am in the shop.
Also, the odds of everything in the shop pulling peak load or overload
at once is pretty slim. Probably infintesimal. Of course the main
breaker would not trip the instant it hit 100amps either. Like most
breakers it takes atleast a few seconds of overload or extreme overload
to trip. I could very likely run one or two more 5HP machines or 4-6
more 2HP machines if I had breakers to put them on. My 100 amp sub
panel has 2 60 amp subpanels of its own. I only have two spare breakers
in the whole building. Both are 120V. Yes I am using compact breakers.




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On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 07:07:50 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 9/19/2019 12:20 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:10:42 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 9/18/2019 9:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:



[SNIP]

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.

Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.
WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -

That would be true if there weren't any circuits in the panel, just the
100 amp breaker. If the power tool was on, say, a 60amp circuit
breaker, wouldn't the lights remain on assuming a separate 20amp circuit?

His problem is when the 40 amp cabinet saw is running, with1,400
watts of shop lights and a 20 amp dust collector when both the air
conditioner and beer fridge decide to start at the same time and it
kicks the MAIN breaker in his shop sub-panel. Or the thickness planer,
drum sander, and jointer are all running along with the dust collector
and air conditioner - all on different properly sized circuits and he
decides to start the 2Hp router - you know - the old one without
soft-start that needs to be on a 20 amp breaker because it kicks a 15
every time it starts. POP goes the MAIN breaker. (mabee a few other
"power suckers" running at the same time)

Having the ONLY garage door opener means SHMBO doesn't open the garage
door at a critical point in the power consumption curve - - - -


DOH! You're correct. My bad!


I have two 150A entrance panels in the (unfinished) basement in close
proximity to my shop areas. Though my lights aren't interleaved, both
panels have lighting and tool circuits in them.
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:02:24 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I choose a heavy stable base (100+ lbs maybe a lot more), because I am
not the only person in the shop sometimes.

Not exactly a bench grinder, but, you might enjoy this guys build.
He's a machinist with a "to die for shop", and skills to match. It's a
5 part series, but his channel has lots of really nice shop built
tools. This one fits your "maybe a lot more" thinking:-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXzo...kXtdsrlhc1_Bde



or more simply:

https://tinyurl.com/y5kds98z



P.S. I'd probably have some of the bigger old iron he has or similar
except when I built my shop its was only intend to be a warehouse for my
contracting business. I only ran a 100 AMP drop to the "warehouse" for
light, a few outlets, and a small air conditioner for the office. I
figured that was overkill. Boy was I wrong.

When I start getting multiple machines going I start adding up my
electrical usage in my head to make sure I'm not going to trip the main
if the office air conditioner or the air compressor comes on (both draw
about the same peak on start up.) There was once or twice when I heard
a couple machines load up at once that I thought to myself, "I'm sure
glad I am the only one with a remote for the overhead doors."

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.


Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.

WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


If it kicks the main breaker instead of the branch breaker you really
need to get an electrician to look at the wiring because there's
something wrong.
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On 9/19/2019 2:46 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 8:10 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/18/2019 9:02 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe
wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM,
Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:



[SNIP]

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have
been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd
have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.


I do have some battery backup emergency LED flood lighting in the shop.
So far they have only kicked on during my routine tests, and when we
have had a general power failure.


Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really
sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.
WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


I'm not really concerend about tripping an individual breaker. The only
thing I have that might do that is the big Miller Mig Welder and I only
use it when nothing else critical is running due to fear of
electrical/RF noise causing a CNC machine to crash. I have forgotten
and used it anyway a couple times. Nothing bad happened.


That would be true if there weren't any circuits in the panel, just
the 100 amp breaker. If the power tool was on, say, a 60amp circuit
breaker, wouldn't the lights remain on assuming a separate 20amp circuit?



Nothing in my shop should trip its individual breaker even under peak
load except the welder listed above. I have it on a 50 amp breaker, and
the books says it should be on a 65. However, if I had say 3 2HP mills,
the 5HP mill, the 1HP mill, all hit peak load in an inside corner cut at
just the exact moment the air conditioner or the air compressor (3.7HP)
motor started up I'd be worried. Particularly if I was also taking a
heavy cut on the 3HP lathe at the same time. You might add that all up
in your head and say, "Hey that's under 70 amps," (On 230V) but that is
not accounting for the draw of all the servo and stepper motors. The
servos on one machine are setup to pull as much as 35 amps at 90VDC
each. They typically pull less than 5 amps, but in that theoretical
peak load in a poorly planned inside corner cut they could draw a lot
more. Then you have to remember that there are atleast 3 such motors on
all five CNC mills. Not all of which are that heavy, but it all adds
up. Ever one of those machines is on its own dedicated breaker sized
appropriately for the machine.

The reality is not all of those machines are running all the time even
though the goal is to have them all running when I am in the shop. Also,
the odds of everything in the shop pulling peak load or overload at once
is pretty slim. Probably infintesimal. Of course the main breaker
would not trip the instant it hit 100amps either. Like most breakers it
takes atleast a few seconds of overload or extreme overload to trip. I
could very likely run one or two more 5HP machines or 4-6 more 2HP
machines if I had breakers to put them on. My 100 amp sub panel has 2
60 amp subpanels of its own. I only have two spare breakers in the
whole building. Both are 120V. Yes I am using compact breakers.


Wow, you have a lot of stuff:-) How big is your main panel, or do you
have more than one?

I run most of my shop tools on one 12 amp breaker, not counting the
planer 240 line, compressor and DC. The other 9 stationary tools are on
the one circuit. I can run 2 tools at once but almost never do since
it's just a one man shop. I used to run everything but the planer on
one 12 amp circuit but would always trip the breaker if running a tool
and the DC and the compressor kicked on. I fixed that when I put in a
200 amp service and put the tools that often run along with others (DC
and Compressor} on their own circuits. Lights I have on 2 different
circuits so I always have light, even if working on lights.

Also, when I first moved here I lost all power. Couldn't figure it out
so called an electrician, turned out my 100amp main breaker went bad,
for no discernible reason.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
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On 9/19/2019 8:10 PM, J. Clarke wrote: On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:02:24
-0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe

wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM,

Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I choose a heavy stable base (100+ lbs maybe a lot more),

because I am
not the only person in the shop sometimes.

Not exactly a bench grinder, but, you might enjoy this guys

build.
He's a machinist with a "to die for shop", and skills to

match. It's a
5 part series, but his channel has lots of really nice shop built
tools. This one fits your "maybe a lot more" thinking:-)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXzo...kXtdsrlhc1_Bde



or more simply:

https://tinyurl.com/y5kds98z



P.S. I'd probably have some of the bigger old iron he has or similar
except when I built my shop its was only intend to be a warehouse

for my
contracting business. I only ran a 100 AMP drop to the

"warehouse" for
light, a few outlets, and a small air conditioner for the office. I
figured that was overkill. Boy was I wrong.

When I start getting multiple machines going I start adding up my
electrical usage in my head to make sure I'm not going to trip the

main
if the office air conditioner or the air compressor comes on (both

draw
about the same peak on start up.) There was once or twice when I

heard
a couple machines load up at once that I thought to myself, "I'm sure
glad I am the only one with a remote for the overhead doors."

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would

have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd

have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.

Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really

sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.

WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


If it kicks the main breaker instead of the branch breaker you really
need to get an electrician to look at the wiring because there's
something wrong.


First off I was a licensed contractor. (For well over 20 years with
multiple licenses) You can have more breaker capacity than main
capacity. Its allowed under code and almost every modern house in
America is setup that way. Probably if you go add up the rating on
every breaker in your house you will find they exceed the rating of the
main breaker. The thing is you never use every circuit at once to its
full or even a significant portion of its rating. However if you use
all circuits to 50 or 75% of their capacity you might exceed the
capacity of the main and NEVER exceed the capacity of any one branch
circuit. In a home that is extremely unlikely, but in a home shop its
possible. Particularly one with automated machines, and machines that
turn on pseudo randomly like an air conditioner or air compressor. The
reality is you "might" trip some branch circuits anyway, but you might
trip the main.

Now of course this is the point where you should speak louder and in a
judgemental tone say, "Well you should have not been so stupid as to
install such a small panel."

I would reply, "Of course. You are right. I should have guessed when I
never owned a CNC machine and never even thought of it that I might
someday have six of them running all at once in the building that was
only intended to be a warehouse for my contracting company. Those
machines along with some substantial manual machines as well."

More than once in this very newsgroup I have preached based on my
experience that guys should always setup for more capacity in their home
shops than they think they will ever need. Heck. I installed more
capacity than I thought I would ever need. In response lots of guys
say, "Oh you don't need all that" or "Not everybody is going to have a
bunch of machines running at once in their one man shop." They might
not, but its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not
have it.

To verify my point I just walked outside and checked the main panel on
my house. It was installed by a a licensed electrician other than
myself, and has passed 3 electrical inspections by the county building
inspector over the years. When the house was built. When I added my
shop. When I upgrade my pool and added a hot tub. It has about double
the individual breaker capacity of the main just adding up the values.
There are 2 sub panels in the house as well. I expect I would find the
same thing if I went and looked at them.

So the blanket statement you made is sort of true, but a gross over
simplification and really not applicable to this branch of the thread.

If it kicks the main breaker instead of the branch breaker you really
need to get an electrician to look at the wiring because there's
something wrong.


Its only true for somebody who doesn't really KNOW what is going on. In
my case the only thing wrong is my lack of precognition about changes in
what I do and the type of business I run. I found I liked making things
in my shop better than contracting, so I mostly make things in my shop
now. I don't need to get an electrician.

After all of that... I have never actually tripped the main breaker in
the sub panel on my shop. As I explained several posts ago. I routinely
add up everything that is running in my head to double check, and the
one real "potential" power hog in the shop doesn't get used when other
machines are running. Actually I have three welders that are power
hogs, but only one outlet for them. An old tombstone, a decent size MIG
rig, and an AC/DC Pulse TIG.
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 23:10:31 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 22:02:24 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 17:40:16 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 11:20:53 AM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/18/2019 7:35 AM, Bob La Londe wrote: On 9/18/2019 7:14 AM, Jack wrote:
On 9/17/2019 11:49 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

I choose a heavy stable base (100+ lbs maybe a lot more), because I am
not the only person in the shop sometimes.

Not exactly a bench grinder, but, you might enjoy this guys build.
He's a machinist with a "to die for shop", and skills to match. It's a
5 part series, but his channel has lots of really nice shop built
tools. This one fits your "maybe a lot more" thinking:-)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXzo...kXtdsrlhc1_Bde



or more simply:

https://tinyurl.com/y5kds98z



P.S. I'd probably have some of the bigger old iron he has or similar
except when I built my shop its was only intend to be a warehouse for my
contracting business. I only ran a 100 AMP drop to the "warehouse" for
light, a few outlets, and a small air conditioner for the office. I
figured that was overkill. Boy was I wrong.

When I start getting multiple machines going I start adding up my
electrical usage in my head to make sure I'm not going to trip the main
if the office air conditioner or the air compressor comes on (both draw
about the same peak on start up.) There was once or twice when I heard
a couple machines load up at once that I thought to myself, "I'm sure
glad I am the only one with a remote for the overhead doors."

I have turned down some pretty impressive equipment that would have been
free except for the cost to transport it because if I ran it I'd have to
turn off everything else in the shop. LOL.

Do you at least have the lights on their own breaker? It really sucks when
a tool plunges the whole shop into darkness if it trips the breaker.

WShen it kicks the main breaker having the lights on their own
doesn't help unless they are running on a battery - - - -


If it kicks the main breaker instead of the branch breaker you really
need to get an electrician to look at the wiring because there's
something wrong.

Not at all. If each branch breaker is within it's limits, but the
total of all the branches excedes the capacity of the main, the main
WILL trip - as it is designed to do.


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Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.
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On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.


Is owning too many tools a vice?
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)
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Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.

Is owning too many tools a vice?

Not really.
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)


The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.
--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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On 9/23/2019 2:54 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in
reference to tools.


Is owning too many tools a vice?
(I can hear it now:Â* "You can't have too many tools".)


Too many vises may be a vice.


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On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.

Is owning too many tools a vice?

Not really.
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)


The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for something and
couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over the old one.


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On 9/24/2019 11:10 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworkingÂ* the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in
reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?

Â*Â*Â*Â*Not really.
(I can hear it now:Â* "You can't have too many tools".)


Â*Â*Â*Â*The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for
something and couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over
the old one.


i had that issue a number of times as a contractor over the years. Need
a tool right now... buy one. Tool needs repair... buy one. Often the
difference between making money and losing money as a contractor is
getting jobs done efficiently. I now have septuplets of many tools that
I really only need one of. Seriously. How many heavy duty 1/2 inch
hammer drills do you really need. LOL.

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On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 2:19:02 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/24/2019 11:10 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworkingÂ* the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in
reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?
Â*Â*Â*Â*Not really.
(I can hear it now:Â* "You can't have too many tools".)

Â*Â*Â*Â*The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Â*Â*Â*Â*Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for
something and couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over
the old one.


i had that issue a number of times as a contractor over the years. Need
a tool right now... buy one. Tool needs repair... buy one. Often the
difference between making money and losing money as a contractor is
getting jobs done efficiently. I now have septuplets of many tools that
I really only need one of. Seriously. How many heavy duty 1/2 inch
hammer drills do you really need. LOL.


That's easy. How many bits do you have? ;-)

That reminds of the time, many years ago, when I was watching Norm build
a router table with built in storage. He started building these deep drawers
and I was asking myself "What for?".

Later in the show it all became clear: Norm doesn't waste time swapping
router bits, he just swaps routers.
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gray_wolf on Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:10:35 -0500
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?

Not really.
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)


The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for something and
couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over the old one.


Which is why I have three soldering irons - two of them still in
the plastic clam shells

--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:18:57 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 9/24/2019 11:10 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking* the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in
reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?
****Not really.
(I can hear it now:* "You can't have too many tools".)

****The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
****Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for
something and couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over
the old one.


i had that issue a number of times as a contractor over the years. Need
a tool right now... buy one. Tool needs repair... buy one. Often the
difference between making money and losing money as a contractor is
getting jobs done efficiently. I now have septuplets of many tools that
I really only need one of. Seriously. How many heavy duty 1/2 inch
hammer drills do you really need. LOL.

About one - every two years or so - - - -
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On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:18:57 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 9/24/2019 11:10 AM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking* the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in
reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?
****Not really.
(I can hear it now:* "You can't have too many tools".)

****The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
****Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for
something and couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over
the old one.


i had that issue a number of times as a contractor over the years. Need
a tool right now... buy one. Tool needs repair... buy one. Often the
difference between making money and losing money as a contractor is
getting jobs done efficiently. I now have septuplets of many tools that
I really only need one of. Seriously. How many heavy duty 1/2 inch
hammer drills do you really need. LOL.


I've taken to renting some of those "once every 2-5 years" tools to
free up shop space -- - - -

But I have 3 circular saws - a Rockwell 7 1/4", a Milwaukee 8 incher,
and an ancient 8 inch Skill worm saw. Just had another "brand new 1987
7 1/4" Skil Saw" dropped in my lap this weekenf. I don't need it - and
apparently lots of others don't either. The local Kijiji has over a
dozen circular saws listed - most of them been there a month or more -
even at $25.

Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


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On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:42:05 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

gray_wolf on Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:10:35 -0500
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?
Not really.
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)

The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for something and
couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over the old one.


Which is why I have three soldering irons - two of them still in
the plastic clam shells

Only 3????
Mine range from a 30 watt pencil iron ( actually at least 2 of them)
to 3? weller dual heat guns -(85/100 and 100/140) to a big heavy
tirnnerman's iron and a 350 watt Cummins gun. Just sold a nice 250
watt iron I picked up at an estate sale.
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On 9/24/2019 8:50 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
....

But I have 3 circular saws - a Rockwell 7 1/4", a Milwaukee 8 incher,
and an ancient 8 inch Skill worm saw. Just had another "brand new 1987
7 1/4" Skil Saw" dropped in my lap this weekenf. I don't need it - and
apparently lots of others don't either. The local Kijiji has over a
dozen circular saws listed - most of them been there a month or more -
even at $25.

Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I think what's putting most of those on the market is the small
battery-driven ones have gotten to the point that power and battery life
is that they'll do almost everything the tailed version will.

I've been duly impressed w/ the DeWalt 20V models the contractors for
the house have been using -- and the hardwood flooring guy is using one
as well. I'm truly tempted, myself...

Is the Skil the venerable worm drive? I'd pay shipping and a small
stipend if it's in good shape if you don't want it...

--



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Clare Snyder on Tue, 24 Sep 2019 21:56:00 -0400
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:42:05 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

gray_wolf on Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:10:35 -0500
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?
Not really.
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)

The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for something and
couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over the old one.


Which is why I have three soldering irons - two of them still in
the plastic clam shells

Only 3????


Only three. Unlike drill bits and drills, and .... soldering
irons are not something I have been able to work with enough to
actually use the "one" I have.

Mine range from a 30 watt pencil iron ( actually at least 2 of them)
to 3? weller dual heat guns -(85/100 and 100/140) to a big heavy
tirnnerman's iron and a 350 watt Cummins gun. Just sold a nice 250
watt iron I picked up at an estate sale.



--
pyotr filipivich
Next month's Panel: Graft - Boon or blessing?
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On 9/24/2019 8:56 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:42:05 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

gray_wolf on Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:10:35 -0500
typed in rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 5:32 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Just Wondering on Mon, 23 Sep 2019 15:54:04 -0600 typed in
rec.woodworking the following:
On 9/23/2019 3:14 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Hey everybody, let's all agree that it's 'vise' and not 'vice' in reference to tools.
Is owning too many tools a vice?
Not really.
(I can hear it now: "You can't have too many tools".)

The only time you have "too many tools" is when you have to move
or store them.
Or you cannot find the one in particular you are looking for.


Years ago I fell into that situation. I needed my saber saw for something and
couldn't find it.
So I went down and bought a new Dewalt which was a big improvement over the old one.


Which is why I have three soldering irons - two of them still in
the plastic clam shells

Only 3????
Mine range from a 30 watt pencil iron ( actually at least 2 of them)
to 3? weller dual heat guns -(85/100 and 100/140) to a big heavy
tirnnerman's iron and a 350 watt Cummins gun. Just sold a nice 250
watt iron I picked up at an estate sale.


I got a 30 watt and 100 watt pencil iron, heat gun, several propanes and oxy
acetylene. I had a Miller TIG years ago along with an SB 13 and Cincinnati
horizontal. Now I'm just a old man that doesn't do much of anything except hang
on to my tools.

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pyotr filipivich wrote:

Only three. Unlike drill bits and drills, and .... soldering
irons are not something I have been able to work with enough to
actually use the "one" I have.


I only have 3 as well. They're nice ones so they get treated very
nicely. It's worth it to buy good irons, and I don't mean that $20
Weller at Home Depot. (I was surprised to be so disappointed with a
Weller product. That tip was garbage!)

Puckdropper


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Clare Snyder wrote:
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I'm a man, and I'm terrified of those circular saws! It doesn't stop me
from using them, though. I just check and double check my cut paths, my
set up, etc to make sure that saw is going exactly where I want and no
where else. Holding a piece of wood in one hand and the saw in the
other is not happening!

Puckdropper
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On 9/25/2019 11:06 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Clare Snyder wrote:
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I'm a man, and I'm terrified of those circular saws! It doesn't stop me
from using them, though. I just check and double check my cut paths, my
set up, etc to make sure that saw is going exactly where I want and no
where else. Holding a piece of wood in one hand and the saw in the
other is not happening!

Puckdropper


My biggest issue with the darn things is they stop cutting the instant
you cut through the cord.
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:06:58 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 9/25/2019 11:06 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Clare Snyder wrote:
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I'm a man, and I'm terrified of those circular saws! It doesn't stop me
from using them, though. I just check and double check my cut paths, my
set up, etc to make sure that saw is going exactly where I want and no
where else. Holding a piece of wood in one hand and the saw in the
other is not happening!

Puckdropper


My biggest issue with the darn things is they stop cutting the instant
you cut through the cord.


My Bosch has no permanent tail, you plug an extension cord in it. But
cutting the extension would still be a problem.
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On Wednesday, September 25, 2019 at 6:07:00 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 9/25/2019 11:06 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Clare Snyder wrote:
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I'm a man, and I'm terrified of those circular saws! It doesn't stop me
from using them, though. I just check and double check my cut paths, my
set up, etc to make sure that saw is going exactly where I want and no
where else. Holding a piece of wood in one hand and the saw in the
other is not happening!

Puckdropper


My biggest issue with the darn things is they stop cutting the instant
you cut through the cord.


Many years ago I went on 3 week camping/cabin build vacation. Power tools
running on generators. On the first day the land owner told us how he once
put his circular saw down on the cord and cut it.

"Don't cut the cord" became the saying of the build, with multiple people
yelling it out just about every time a circular saw was turned off. Kind of
a rolling, echoing chant of "Don't cut the cord!", "Don't cut the cord!",
"Don't cut the cord!"

On the final day that I was there, I put my circular saw down and, yep, I
cut the cord. The saw (and generator) made a weird sound as the cord wrapped
itself around the arbor. There was silence on the work site for a second or
so until a new echoing chant started: "He cut the cord!", "He cut the cord!",
"He cut the cord!"

One of those "You had to be there" moments that formed a lifelong memory.
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 17:58:54 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

Only three. Unlike drill bits and drills, and .... soldering
irons are not something I have been able to work with enough to
actually use the "one" I have.


I only have 3 as well. They're nice ones so they get treated very
nicely. It's worth it to buy good irons, and I don't mean that $20
Weller at Home Depot. (I was surprised to be so disappointed with a
Weller product. That tip was garbage!)


Weller makes the best irons on the market and they also make some at
the other end of the spectrum. I have a couple of the WX2 units on my
bench at work. They go for over $1000, so they'd better be good. ;-)

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/apex-tool-group/WX2021N/WX2021N-ND/2608021

I don't remember the last time I used a soldering iron at home.


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On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 20:59:30 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 9/24/2019 8:50 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
...

But I have 3 circular saws - a Rockwell 7 1/4", a Milwaukee 8 incher,
and an ancient 8 inch Skill worm saw. Just had another "brand new 1987
7 1/4" Skil Saw" dropped in my lap this weekenf. I don't need it - and
apparently lots of others don't either. The local Kijiji has over a
dozen circular saws listed - most of them been there a month or more -
even at $25.

Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I think what's putting most of those on the market is the small
battery-driven ones have gotten to the point that power and battery life
is that they'll do almost everything the tailed version will.

I've been duly impressed w/ the DeWalt 20V models the contractors for
the house have been using -- and the hardwood flooring guy is using one
as well. I'm truly tempted, myself...

Is the Skil the venerable worm drive? I'd pay shipping and a small
stipend if it's in good shape if you don't want it...

This one is not - but I have a Skil worm, drive saw as well. It's old
enough to draw social security and not the prettiest - but it still
works just fine. One HEAVY mutha though - - - -
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 18:06:33 GMT, Puckdropper
wrote:

Clare Snyder wrote:
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I'm a man, and I'm terrified of those circular saws! It doesn't stop me
from using them, though. I just check and double check my cut paths, my
set up, etc to make sure that saw is going exactly where I want and no
where else. Holding a piece of wood in one hand and the saw in the
other is not happening!

Puckdropper

Only a fool does that - one who wants to be known as "lefty"
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 15:06:58 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 9/25/2019 11:06 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Clare Snyder wrote:
Used to be every "man" had to have a circular saw - now they are all
afraid they'll cut off a finger (or something else)


I'm a man, and I'm terrified of those circular saws! It doesn't stop me
from using them, though. I just check and double check my cut paths, my
set up, etc to make sure that saw is going exactly where I want and no
where else. Holding a piece of wood in one hand and the saw in the
other is not happening!

Puckdropper


My biggest issue with the darn things is they stop cutting the instant
you cut through the cord.

Haven't done that yet - but I've killed a few (saw) horses - - - -
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On 9/13/2019 8:54 AM, Puckdropper wrote: I don't have as much shop
space any more, as my shop now has to share
duties with a garage.

So between a bandsaw, jointer, planer, RAS, table saw, and circular saw,
what tools can be combined to cover the basic operations we need to do?
Crosscut, rip, and maybe resaw. I'm not sure I trust my RAS to rip,
it's missing important pieces like the anti-kickback pawls.

Puckdropper



Sorry about all the tangents, but thank you for this thread. It has
produced many entertaining and educational posts.

Bob
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