I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for this
so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long horizontal
runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to 1/16 or
even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

However, measuring and cutting long studs is slow and not that accurate
with just a tape and a chop saw.

My instinct is to mount a laser distance finder on the left side of the
chop saw blade aiming the laser to the right (I am right handed) and
coming up with some kind of easily clamped/removed target that can
be consistently placed on the right hand end of the board. That way,
as the board is slid left and right, the laser would record the
effective distance from blade to board end.

However, this would require the ability to dial in an offset into the
laser distance tool to correct for the distance from the blade to
the actual laser tool mount mount. IOW, the tool has to be calibrated
for the "real" distance from blade to board end.

Questions:

1) Do distance finders allow offsets like that to be dialed in?
2) Is there a better/faster/smarter way to do this?
3) Is there already a tooling system for just this problem?

P.S. This question is actually on behalf of a friend of mine who is
a professional builder. I first suggested mounting a long
auxiliary fence on the right side of his chop saw (with proper
support) and then sticking on a self-adhesive tape to the top
of it. He said he's already doing this but it's too slow for
large projects. You have to run back-and-forth from the end
of the board to the blade to get it right. In some cases,
he's using sticks up to 20' in length so it's a fair walk.

Ideas?

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 09:19:45 -0500
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for this
so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long

your solution should be reconsidered as you are only kicking the can
down the road


the can is full of worms


in other words make the footings level

Tim Daneliuk writes:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level.

Knock 'em down and start over.

On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for
this so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long
horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to
1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

Ideas?


Maybe I'm not completely understanding what's going on, but let me throw
out a suggestion.
The current problem is that the foundation wall isn't level and has a
uneven, inconstant slope to it. And I assume there is no deck installed
or floor poured yet.

Normally what builder would do is build the wall in the horizontal, on
the deck/floor, then raise it up into the vertical position.
I suggest doing a modified version of this. Use studs all the same
length. When you lay out the studs, nail them into the sole/sill plate
as you normally would. But instead nailing the top plate to the ends of
the studs, flip it down against the sides of the studs about a foot down
from the tops of the studs. Put one screw through it into each stud,
leaving the tops free. I hope you can picture this.

Once you've done this, you raise the wall into position on the
foundation, like normal, and temporarily secure it in place with some
long diagonal bracing. What you now have is a stud wall with no top
plate, but with the studs held in place with the top plate running along
the side of the wall instead of on top.

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever
method is at your disposal. A laser level, a water level, whatever.
All you need is two marks at the correct cut height/length, one at each
end of the wall, then you can strike chalk line. If you have a good
laser level, you can mark each stud individually. Once you're happy
that you have each stud marked, you drop the wall back down and cut the
studs at the marks with a circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and
raise the wall back up into position.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/17/2018 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for this
so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long horizontal
runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to 1/16 or
even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).
....

Questions:

1) Do distance finders allow offsets like that to be dialed in?
2) Is there a better/faster/smarter way to do this?
3) Is there already a tooling system for just this problem?

P.S. This question is actually on behalf of a friend of mine who is
a professional builder. I first suggested mounting a long
auxiliary fence on the right side of his chop saw (with proper
support) and then sticking on a self-adhesive tape to the top
of it. He said he's already doing this but it's too slow for
large projects. You have to run back-and-forth from the end
of the board to the blade to get it right. In some cases,
he's using sticks up to 20' in length so it's a fair walk.

Ideas?

I'm sure there are rangers that do allow for tare but measuring/cutting
each stud individually is the hard way to go about it.

Pull a level string on the foundation and measure the distance needed
for each stud location to make the level. Lay out the studs on the
ground in group and transfer the distance to them. Cut.

--

On 3/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Tim Daneliuk writes:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level.

Knock 'em down and start over.



Exactly! A professional builder should know better to accept poor
workmanship.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 10:39:56 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

Normally what builder would do is build the wall in the horizontal, on
the deck/floor, then raise it up into the vertical position.
I suggest doing a modified version of this. Use studs all the same
length. When you lay out the studs, nail them into the sole/sill plate
as you normally would. But instead nailing the top plate to the ends of
the studs, flip it down against the sides of the studs about a foot down
from the tops of the studs. Put one screw through it into each stud,
leaving the tops free. I hope you can picture this.

I saw this being done years ago and had to stop and inquire. Due to
building codes/restrictions a new foundation would have been new
construction, and wasn't allowed. However, using the old foundation made
it a renovation/remodel - or some such - and was grand fathered and
allowed.

I consider this the best solution available - it works. It is still a
real PITA, but not as much as other methods and it is more accurate and
faster. Simple, elegant, and a solution that I would not have thought of
- I'm sure that I would have tried to cut each stud individually, but
framing is not my forte.
--

Jerry O.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 08:19:42 -0700, Electric Comet
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 09:19:45 -0500
Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for this
so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long

your solution should be reconsidered as you are only kicking the can
down the road


the can is full of worms


in other words make the footings level







If the footing isn't level and the foundation isn't level and the
sill plate isn't level the floors won't be level either. Level the top
of the foundation. If the foundation pour isn't level, fire the cement
contactor. If YOU poured the foundation, shame on you. Now you know
why you should have hired the job out.

At this point, find the highest point of the foundation and see how
much lower the rest of the foundation is and how much is low.

Or find the low point and see how much higher the rest is, and how
much of it is higher.

Then determine if you are better to cut/grind the high points, fill in
the low points, or use a combination strategy.. Get the sill plates
level and square on the foundation BEFORE DOING ANYTHING ELSE.

I'd crib out the top of the foundation with lumber, carefully leveled,
and fill it with high strength concrete, mixed with a bit of bondfast,
then after stripping the cribbing, lag the sills down

On 03/17/2018 10:19 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
in other words make the footings level

Out of my control.

On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you get.

On 03/17/2018 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction. Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level.Â* Over long runs, they can be off several inches.Â* So, I want to build the wall to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for
this so that the top of the wall *is* level.Â* Because of the long
horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to
1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

Ideas?

SNIP

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever
method is at your disposal.Â* A laser level, a water level, whatever.
All you need is two marks at the correct cut height/length, one at each
end of the wall, then you can strike chalk line.Â* If you have a good
laser level, you can mark each stud individually.Â* Once you're happy
that you have each stud marked, you drop the wall back down and cut the
studs at the marks with a circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and
raise the wall back up into position.

This is a great approach for the occasional builder but - I fear - far
too slow for a professional framer for whom time is money (which is
why he brought this to my attention in the first place). In this
particular instance, the framer specializes in building large structures
in very remote areas. You get what you get in the way of sill plates
being level and you have to adjust accordingly ... and rapidly when
you're framing hundreds linear feet of wall per project and thousands
per year.

On 3/17/18 1:35 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new
construction. Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly
level. Over long runs, they can be off several inches. So, I
want to build the wall to the sill plate with studs of different
lengths to account for this so that the top of the wall *is*
level. Because of the long horizontal runs involved, I want to
keep the accuracy of the cuts to 1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid
accumulation error).

Ideas?

SNIP

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using
whatever method is at your disposal. A laser level, a water level,
whatever. All you need is two marks at the correct cut
height/length, one at each end of the wall, then you can strike
chalk line. If you have a good laser level, you can mark each stud
individually. Once you're happy that you have each stud marked,
you drop the wall back down and cut the studs at the marks with a
circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and raise the wall back up
into position.

This is a great approach for the occasional builder but - I fear -
far too slow for a professional framer for whom time is money (which
is why he brought this to my attention in the first place). In this
particular instance, the framer specializes in building large
structures in very remote areas. You get what you get in the way of
sill plates being level and you have to adjust accordingly ... and
rapidly when you're framing hundreds linear feet of wall per project
and thousands per year.


If he's a professional framer, then he's already thought of my suggestion.
It shouldn't take two framing carpenters any longer to do what I
described than it took me to type it. :-) Seriously.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 03/17/2018 02:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
fÂ*he'sÂ*aÂ*professionalÂ*framer,Â*thenÂ*he'sÂ*alr eadyÂ*thoughtÂ*ofÂ*myÂ*suggestion.
ItÂ*shouldn'tÂ*takeÂ*twoÂ*framingÂ*carpentersÂ*any Â*longerÂ*toÂ*doÂ*whatÂ*I
describedÂ*thanÂ*itÂ*tookÂ*meÂ*toÂ*typeÂ*it.Â*Â*:-)Â*Â*Â*Â*Seriously.

I dunno about that. You have to take it up, tack it in place, measure,
take it down, cut, remove the top, and install it. That's a lot of steps.

On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 2:40:04 PM UTC-4, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction. Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level.Â* Over long runs, they can be off several inches.Â* So, I want to build the wall to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for
this so that the top of the wall *is* level.Â* Because of the long
horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to
1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

Ideas?

SNIP

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever
method is at your disposal.Â* A laser level, a water level, whatever.

On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 7:20:06 AM UTC-7, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level....
However, measuring and cutting long studs is slow and not that accurate
with just a tape and a chop saw.

This suggests a tech solution: an automatic stop for the chop saw
https://www.tigerstop.com/products/sawgear/

You still have to have a measurement for each stud, but the cut-to-length
operation is easier, because the length stop is adjusted by the
robot.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:17:20 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:19 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
in other words make the footings level

Out of my control.
No it's not. The "footings" perhaps, but not the top of the
foundation where the ledger board or sill sits.

No excuse whatsoever for not levelling the top of the foundation - as
previously explained.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:17:59 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you get.
No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of
work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE
FOUNDATION.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 10:39:56 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for
this so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long
horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to
1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

Ideas?


Maybe I'm not completely understanding what's going on, but let me throw
out a suggestion.
The current problem is that the foundation wall isn't level and has a
uneven, inconstant slope to it. And I assume there is no deck installed
or floor poured yet.

Normally what builder would do is build the wall in the horizontal, on
the deck/floor, then raise it up into the vertical position.
I suggest doing a modified version of this. Use studs all the same
length. When you lay out the studs, nail them into the sole/sill plate
as you normally would. But instead nailing the top plate to the ends of
the studs, flip it down against the sides of the studs about a foot down
from the tops of the studs. Put one screw through it into each stud,
leaving the tops free. I hope you can picture this.

Once you've done this, you raise the wall into position on the
foundation, like normal, and temporarily secure it in place with some
long diagonal bracing. What you now have is a stud wall with no top
plate, but with the studs held in place with the top plate running along
the side of the wall instead of on top.

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever
method is at your disposal. A laser level, a water level, whatever.
All you need is two marks at the correct cut height/length, one at each
end of the wall, then you can strike chalk line. If you have a good
laser level, you can mark each stud individually. Once you're happy
that you have each stud marked, you drop the wall back down and cut the
studs at the marks with a circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and
raise the wall back up into position.
Which gives you a level roof but still crooked walls.

SHIM THE SILL. Fill with concrete between the sill and the irregular
foundation.

or better yet, level the top of the foundation, then lay on the sill.

Level and chalk-line and concrete saw, or crib the top of the
foundation and pour a level "cap" on the crooked foundation, or a
combination of the two.

Anything else isjust crappy workmanship, however you choose to color
it

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:35:10 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction. Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level.* Over long runs, they can be off several inches.* So, I want to build the wall to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for
this so that the top of the wall *is* level.* Because of the long
horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to
1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

Ideas?

SNIP

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever
method is at your disposal.* A laser level, a water level, whatever.
All you need is two marks at the correct cut height/length, one at each
end of the wall, then you can strike chalk line.* If you have a good
laser level, you can mark each stud individually.* Once you're happy
that you have each stud marked, you drop the wall back down and cut the
studs at the marks with a circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and
raise the wall back up into position.

This is a great approach for the occasional builder but - I fear - far
too slow for a professional framer for whom time is money (which is
why he brought this to my attention in the first place). In this
particular instance, the framer specializes in building large structures
in very remote areas. You get what you get in the way of sill plates
being level and you have to adjust accordingly ... and rapidly when
you're framing hundreds linear feet of wall per project and thousands
per year.

really only acceptable if this is a "stick framed foundation" being
built directly on a concrete "footer" andthe first floor will be built
on top of this "stick framed foundation"

Otherwize getting a straight level floor, and walls that don't look
totally "wonky" is pretty well impossible.

It'll look like my kid brother's old place up at Ripley. It looked
like it had been built by a bunch of Irishmen and a case of Jamiesons
over a long weelend.

Didn't dare wax the floors or it would have been impossible to stay
upright walking across the living-room.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 14:07:25 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/17/18 1:35 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 10:39 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new
construction. Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly
level. Over long runs, they can be off several inches. So, I
want to build the wall to the sill plate with studs of different
lengths to account for this so that the top of the wall *is*
level. Because of the long horizontal runs involved, I want to
keep the accuracy of the cuts to 1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid
accumulation error).

Ideas?

SNIP

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using
whatever method is at your disposal. A laser level, a water level,
whatever. All you need is two marks at the correct cut
height/length, one at each end of the wall, then you can strike
chalk line. If you have a good laser level, you can mark each stud
individually. Once you're happy that you have each stud marked,
you drop the wall back down and cut the studs at the marks with a
circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and raise the wall back up
into position.

This is a great approach for the occasional builder but - I fear -
far too slow for a professional framer for whom time is money (which
is why he brought this to my attention in the first place). In this
particular instance, the framer specializes in building large
structures in very remote areas. You get what you get in the way of
sill plates being level and you have to adjust accordingly ... and
rapidly when you're framing hundreds linear feet of wall per project
and thousands per year.


If he's a professional framer, then he's already thought of my suggestion.
It shouldn't take two framing carpenters any longer to do what I
described than it took me to type it. :-) Seriously.


You type like I do, do you??? Hunt and peck like a blind chicken.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 12:34:21 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 3/17/2018 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for this
so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long horizontal
runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to 1/16 or
even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).
...

Questions:

1) Do distance finders allow offsets like that to be dialed in?
2) Is there a better/faster/smarter way to do this?
3) Is there already a tooling system for just this problem?

P.S. This question is actually on behalf of a friend of mine who is
a professional builder. I first suggested mounting a long
auxiliary fence on the right side of his chop saw (with proper
support) and then sticking on a self-adhesive tape to the top
of it. He said he's already doing this but it's too slow for
large projects. You have to run back-and-forth from the end
of the board to the blade to get it right. In some cases,
he's using sticks up to 20' in length so it's a fair walk.

Ideas?

I'm sure there are rangers that do allow for tare but measuring/cutting
each stud individually is the hard way to go about it.

Pull a level string on the foundation and measure the distance needed
for each stud location to make the level. Lay out the studs on the
ground in group and transfer the distance to them. Cut.
Is the foundation straight but not level? Otherwize getting a
straight sill plate to follow the foundation is going to be another
trick.

I still say "level the foundation". Do it right or walk away.

On 03/17/2018 02:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You make it sound like uneven pours are a common problem in this guy's
world, so how is that he is just getting around to asking you to figure
out how to do his job?

1) Is is common.

2) He has solutions, but wants a faster one.


I find it interesting that the hive mind here largely wants to
talk about the foundation issues instead of addressing the
more general question: Is there a reasonable way to rapidly
determine the length of a chop saw cut *while standing at
the saw* ... this is an interesting question whether or not
this particular use case makes sense to you city/comfortable
farm dwellers Trust me, if you are building in the middle
of Hell's Elbow, MT, you do what you have to.

On 3/17/18 2:11 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 02:07 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
fÂ*he'sÂ*aÂ*professionalÂ*framer,Â*thenÂ*he'sÂ*alr eadyÂ*thoughtÂ*ofÂ*myÂ*suggestion.
ItÂ*shouldn'tÂ*takeÂ*twoÂ*framingÂ*carpentersÂ*any Â*longerÂ*toÂ*doÂ*whatÂ*I
describedÂ*thanÂ*itÂ*tookÂ*meÂ*toÂ*typeÂ*it.Â*Â*:-)Â*Â*Â*Â*Seriously.

I dunno about that. You have to take it up, tack it in place, measure,
take it down, cut, remove the top, and install it. That's a lot of steps.


Right. A LOT fewer steps than trying to measure each stud.

You said he was a pro. With an inexperienced helper, it would be done
in an hour, tops. This is something a professional framer would've
figured out by intuition.

I gave you a really good solution to the problem. I'd be setting
trusses by now. :-)

Is this guy a missionary, by chance?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

Clare Snyder wrote in
:

No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of
work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE
FOUNDATION.

Concrete saw suspended from a level I-beam and pulled along it just like a
RAS to nibble the foundation mostly flat?!

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 3/17/18 4:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:17:59 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you
get.
No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of
work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE
FOUNDATION.


My suggestion was an easy way to deal with it.
But your comment gave me another idea.

You could run a tight string line or laser, level, from the highest
point of the foundation wall to a clamped stick at the low end.
You take a pressure treated sill plate and embed it in mortar on the
sloping foundation wall. You just keep tapping down until it's straight
and level. Let the mortar cure and then insert anchors down into the
foundation wall. The anchors could already be there or be installed
prior to setting the sill plate in mortar.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/17/18 4:30 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 10:39:56 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/17/18 9:19 AM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:

I have a use case where I want to build a wall on new construction.
Inevitably, the foundation pours are not perfectly level. Over long
runs, they can be off several inches. So, I want to build the wall
to the sill plate with studs of different lengths to account for
this so that the top of the wall *is* level. Because of the long
horizontal runs involved, I want to keep the accuracy of the cuts to
1/16 or even 1/32 (to avoid accumulation error).

Ideas?


Maybe I'm not completely understanding what's going on, but let me throw
out a suggestion.
The current problem is that the foundation wall isn't level and has a
uneven, inconstant slope to it. And I assume there is no deck installed
or floor poured yet.

Normally what builder would do is build the wall in the horizontal, on
the deck/floor, then raise it up into the vertical position.
I suggest doing a modified version of this. Use studs all the same
length. When you lay out the studs, nail them into the sole/sill plate
as you normally would. But instead nailing the top plate to the ends of
the studs, flip it down against the sides of the studs about a foot down
from the tops of the studs. Put one screw through it into each stud,
leaving the tops free. I hope you can picture this.

Once you've done this, you raise the wall into position on the
foundation, like normal, and temporarily secure it in place with some
long diagonal bracing. What you now have is a stud wall with no top
plate, but with the studs held in place with the top plate running along
the side of the wall instead of on top.

Now you can mark a level line across all those studs, using whatever
method is at your disposal. A laser level, a water level, whatever.
All you need is two marks at the correct cut height/length, one at each
end of the wall, then you can strike chalk line. If you have a good
laser level, you can mark each stud individually. Once you're happy
that you have each stud marked, you drop the wall back down and cut the
studs at the marks with a circ saw, fasten a top plate, as normal, and
raise the wall back up into position.
Which gives you a level roof but still crooked walls.


How an earth are the walls crooked?
The studs are plum.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:14:21 -0500, (Jerry
Osage) wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 10:39:56 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

Normally what builder would do is build the wall in the horizontal, on
the deck/floor, then raise it up into the vertical position.
I suggest doing a modified version of this. Use studs all the same
length. When you lay out the studs, nail them into the sole/sill plate
as you normally would. But instead nailing the top plate to the ends of
the studs, flip it down against the sides of the studs about a foot down
from the tops of the studs. Put one screw through it into each stud,
leaving the tops free. I hope you can picture this.

I saw this being done years ago and had to stop and inquire. Due to
building codes/restrictions a new foundation would have been new
construction, and wasn't allowed. However, using the old foundation made
it a renovation/remodel - or some such - and was grand fathered and
allowed.

I consider this the best solution available - it works. It is still a
real PITA, but not as much as other methods and it is more accurate and
faster. Simple, elegant, and a solution that I would not have thought of
- I'm sure that I would have tried to cut each stud individually, but
framing is not my forte.

My uncle "remodeled" a house on a lake, basically built a new house,
around an old house and then tore down the old house, in the new
house.

Up upon Lake Beulah, because you could not build new.

On 3/17/18 5:05 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 02:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You make it sound like uneven pours are a common problem in this guy's
world, so how is that he is just getting around to asking you to figure
out how to do his job?

1) Is is common.

2) He has solutions, but wants a faster one.


I find it interesting that the hive mind here largely wants to
talk about the foundation issues instead of addressing the
more general question: Is there a reasonable way to rapidly
determine the length of a chop saw cut *while standing at
the saw* ... this is an interesting question whether or not
this particular use case makes sense to you city/comfortable
farm dwellers Trust me, if you are building in the middle
of Hell's Elbow, MT, you do what you have to.


I gave you a fairly quick solution that doesn't even require you to take
the studs to a chop saw.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 03/17/2018 05:34 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
IsÂ*thisÂ*guyÂ*aÂ*missionary,Â*byÂ*chance?

Nope.

On Saturday, March 17, 2018 at 6:10:04 PM UTC-4, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 02:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You make it sound like uneven pours are a common problem in this guy's
world, so how is that he is just getting around to asking you to figure
out how to do his job?

1) Is is common.

2) He has solutions, but wants a faster one.

You didn't address my question as to why "you get what you get" when a foundation
is poured in a remote area. Why is it so common that the foundation sucks?

Is it that the good comtractors would charge too much to make the trip, so you have to
settle for Larry, Darryl and Darryl?

If it's a cost saving matter, has your pro figured out whether he actually saves anything
after spending extra time working around the results of saving that upfront cost?

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:40:52 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/17/18 4:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:17:59 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you
get.
No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of
work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE
FOUNDATION.


My suggestion was an easy way to deal with it.
But your comment gave me another idea.

You could run a tight string line or laser, level, from the highest
point of the foundation wall to a clamped stick at the low end.
You take a pressure treated sill plate and embed it in mortar on the
sloping foundation wall. You just keep tapping down until it's straight
and level. Let the mortar cure and then insert anchors down into the
foundation wall. The anchors could already be there or be installed
prior to setting the sill plate in mortar.
I'd use concrete, not mortar, for the structural strength

I guess a "portland cement mortar" would work. - (Type "S" - not T"ype
N"

DO NOT try it with type N motar - it is too weak in compressive
strength.

On 3/17/18 8:13 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 17:40:52 -0500, -MIKE-
wrote:

On 3/17/18 4:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:17:59 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you
get.
No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of
work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE
FOUNDATION.


My suggestion was an easy way to deal with it.
But your comment gave me another idea.

You could run a tight string line or laser, level, from the highest
point of the foundation wall to a clamped stick at the low end.
You take a pressure treated sill plate and embed it in mortar on the
sloping foundation wall. You just keep tapping down until it's straight
and level. Let the mortar cure and then insert anchors down into the
foundation wall. The anchors could already be there or be installed
prior to setting the sill plate in mortar.
I'd use concrete, not mortar, for the structural strength

I guess a "portland cement mortar" would work. - (Type "S" - not T"ype
N"

DO NOT try it with type N motar - it is too weak in compressive
strength.


I don't work with it enough to know, off hand, which is proper.
In any case, it would be a good idea to use fiberglass impregnation or a
reinforcing mesh.

I still think my first suggestion is the easiest, fastest method and
yields perfect results above the foundation wall. It's not all that
different from building a stud wall on a stepped foundation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 03/17/2018 08:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You didn't address my question as to why "you get what you get" when a foundation
is poured in a remote area. Why is it so common that the foundation sucks?

Is it that the good comtractors would charge too much to make the trip, so you have to
settle for Larry, Darryl and Darryl?

If it's a cost saving matter, has your pro figured out whether he actually saves anything
after spending extra time working around the results of saving that upfront cost?



I don't actually know, as I am not there. My suspicion is that there is
not a good supply of contractors that can do it right. You're stuck with
whatever is available ... but that's a guess.

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:59:02 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 08:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You didn't address my question as to why "you get what you get" when a foundation
is poured in a remote area. Why is it so common that the foundation sucks?

Is it that the good comtractors would charge too much to make the trip, so you have to
settle for Larry, Darryl and Darryl?

If it's a cost saving matter, has your pro figured out whether he actually saves anything
after spending extra time working around the results of saving that upfront cost?



I don't actually know, as I am not there. My suspicion is that there is
not a good supply of contractors that can do it right. You're stuck with
whatever is available ... but that's a guess.

Some questions which nobody has asked which I believe have bearing.

1) You say "large". How large is large? Are we talking a 4000
square foot house or are we talking an airship hangar? Do you have
the approximate dimensions?
2) The foundation isn't level. How far out of level is it?
3) Is it flat and just down at one end or is it out of flat as well
and if so how much?

With regard to the question of how you cut to varying lengths with a
chopsaw, I have no idea, but can tell you how to do it with a radial
arm saw. Two ways. For either you need to make or buy shims or
obtain some precision incremental positioner such as an Incra jig.

One is to cut all the studs to a little over the longest length, being
as exact as you can, then set the saw up with a stop that will result
in trimming the exact amount you need to get to the _shortest_ length.
then for the next one put one shim so a little less is cut off,, for
the next one two shims, etc. The advantage of this approach is that
one person can do it fairly easily, the disadvantage is that you have
to cut each stud twice and have twice as many chances to screw up..

The other way is a similar approach but you put the shims at the other
end, so you make a jig that holds the stud to the _longest_ length
required, then cut one, put in a shim and cut the second one, put in
two shims and cut the third, and so on. The disadvantage of the
second approach is that you really need two people to be able to do it
efficiently, the advantage is that you only cut once.

If this is a very long wall you end up with a lot of shims to juggle
as well with either approach.

If you can get by with increments of 1mm or 1/32 inch the original
Incra jig can replace the shims for about 60 bucks at the cost of
having to be more careful with the adjusting--it's easy to move it one
notch too far and not catch it.

On 3/17/2018 1:17 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

Um, yes it does. I don't believe a foundation should deviate nearly as
much as what your neighbor is stuck with. My parents 40 year old home
had a foundation deviation of about 1" from the front back 65' to the back.



In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you get.


That makes no sense at all. So the problem is he could not afford or
chose not to have some one come in that knows how to do it correctly.

On 3/17/2018 5:40 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 3/17/18 4:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 13:17:59 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you
get.
No, when the world gives you lemons, make lemonade. Takes abit of
work, but NO EXCUSE for not starting witha levelled foundation.

Cut it, shim it - do whatever is necessary - but build FROM A SQUARE
FOUNDATION.


My suggestion was an easy way to deal with it.
But your comment gave me another idea.

You could run a tight string line or laser, level, from the highest
point of the foundation wall to a clamped stick at the low end.
You take a pressure treated sill plate and embed it in mortar on the
sloping foundation wall.Â* You just keep tapping down until it's straight
and level.Â* Let the mortar cure and then insert anchors down into the
foundation wall.Â* The anchors could already be there or be installed
prior to setting the sill plate in mortar.



That seems plausible but I'm thinking that the sill plate may
prematurely rot being embedded in mortar. Maybe not. down here in the
Houston area the sill plate does not sit directly on top of the
foundation, there is an water proof barrier between the wood and the
concrete. I would imagine mortar and wicking might be worse.

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 00:40:14 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:59:02 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 08:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You didn't address my question as to why "you get what you get" when a foundation
is poured in a remote area. Why is it so common that the foundation sucks?

Is it that the good comtractors would charge too much to make the trip, so you have to
settle for Larry, Darryl and Darryl?

If it's a cost saving matter, has your pro figured out whether he actually saves anything
after spending extra time working around the results of saving that upfront cost?



I don't actually know, as I am not there. My suspicion is that there is
not a good supply of contractors that can do it right. You're stuck with
whatever is available ... but that's a guess.

Some questions which nobody has asked which I believe have bearing.

1) You say "large". How large is large? Are we talking a 4000
square foot house or are we talking an airship hangar? Do you have
the approximate dimensions?
2) The foundation isn't level. How far out of level is it?
3) Is it flat and just down at one end or is it out of flat as well
and if so how much?

With regard to the question of how you cut to varying lengths with a
chopsaw, I have no idea, but can tell you how to do it with a radial
arm saw. Two ways. For either you need to make or buy shims or
obtain some precision incremental positioner such as an Incra jig.

One is to cut all the studs to a little over the longest length, being
as exact as you can, then set the saw up with a stop that will result
in trimming the exact amount you need to get to the _shortest_ length.
then for the next one put one shim so a little less is cut off,, for
the next one two shims, etc. The advantage of this approach is that
one person can do it fairly easily, the disadvantage is that you have
to cut each stud twice and have twice as many chances to screw up..

The other way is a similar approach but you put the shims at the other
end, so you make a jig that holds the stud to the _longest_ length
required, then cut one, put in a shim and cut the second one, put in
two shims and cut the third, and so on. The disadvantage of the
second approach is that you really need two people to be able to do it
efficiently, the advantage is that you only cut once.

If this is a very long wall you end up with a lot of shims to juggle
as well with either approach.

If you can get by with increments of 1mm or 1/32 inch the original
Incra jig can replace the shims for about 60 bucks at the cost of
having to be more careful with the adjusting--it's easy to move it one
notch too far and not catch it.

Very easy method increase the depth of the sole plate by whatever the
deviation is mark it with a string and trim the sole plate
accordingly

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 2:00:19 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
On 3/17/2018 1:17 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
On 03/17/2018 10:34 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Knock 'em down and start over.

That's a nice theory but the real world does not operate that way.

Um, yes it does. I don't believe a foundation should deviate nearly as
much as what your neighbor is stuck with. My parents 40 year old home
had a foundation deviation of about 1" from the front back 65' to the back.



In this case, the location is very remote and you get what you get.


That makes no sense at all. So the problem is he could not afford or
chose not to have some one come in that knows how to do it correctly.

That was exactly my point. He continues to claim that the remote location had something
to do with fact the foundations are continually poured poorly, yet when pressed for a reason,
he doesn't have one.

Seems to me that the root cause needs to be addressed as opposed to trying to come up with
workarounds. I'm not so rigid that I'm unwilling to accept that there is a reason that pours
can't be done correctly. There *has* to be a reason. If the root cause can be eliminated in a
reasonable manner, then it should be.

On Sunday, March 18, 2018 at 7:43:37 AM UTC-4, steve robinson wrote:
On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 00:40:14 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:59:02 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 08:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You didn't address my question as to why "you get what you get" when a foundation
is poured in a remote area. Why is it so common that the foundation sucks?

Is it that the good comtractors would charge too much to make the trip, so you have to
settle for Larry, Darryl and Darryl?

If it's a cost saving matter, has your pro figured out whether he actually saves anything
after spending extra time working around the results of saving that upfront cost?



I don't actually know, as I am not there. My suspicion is that there is
not a good supply of contractors that can do it right. You're stuck with
whatever is available ... but that's a guess.

Some questions which nobody has asked which I believe have bearing.

1) You say "large". How large is large? Are we talking a 4000
square foot house or are we talking an airship hangar? Do you have
the approximate dimensions?
2) The foundation isn't level. How far out of level is it?
3) Is it flat and just down at one end or is it out of flat as well
and if so how much?

With regard to the question of how you cut to varying lengths with a
chopsaw, I have no idea, but can tell you how to do it with a radial
arm saw. Two ways. For either you need to make or buy shims or
obtain some precision incremental positioner such as an Incra jig.

One is to cut all the studs to a little over the longest length, being
as exact as you can, then set the saw up with a stop that will result
in trimming the exact amount you need to get to the _shortest_ length.
then for the next one put one shim so a little less is cut off,, for
the next one two shims, etc. The advantage of this approach is that
one person can do it fairly easily, the disadvantage is that you have
to cut each stud twice and have twice as many chances to screw up..

The other way is a similar approach but you put the shims at the other
end, so you make a jig that holds the stud to the _longest_ length
required, then cut one, put in a shim and cut the second one, put in
two shims and cut the third, and so on. The disadvantage of the
second approach is that you really need two people to be able to do it
efficiently, the advantage is that you only cut once.

If this is a very long wall you end up with a lot of shims to juggle
as well with either approach.

If you can get by with increments of 1mm or 1/32 inch the original
Incra jig can replace the shims for about 60 bucks at the cost of
having to be more careful with the adjusting--it's easy to move it one
notch too far and not catch it.

Very easy method increase the depth of the sole plate by whatever the
deviation is mark it with a string and trim the sole plate
accordingly

Are you suggesting that he re-saw multiple 2 x 6's at an angle to compensate for the
slope? Out in the field?

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 11:43:25 +0000, steve robinson
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 00:40:14 -0400, J. Clarke
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Mar 2018 22:59:02 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
wrote:

On 03/17/2018 08:04 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
You didn't address my question as to why "you get what you get" when a foundation
is poured in a remote area. Why is it so common that the foundation sucks?

Is it that the good comtractors would charge too much to make the trip, so you have to
settle for Larry, Darryl and Darryl?

If it's a cost saving matter, has your pro figured out whether he actually saves anything
after spending extra time working around the results of saving that upfront cost?



I don't actually know, as I am not there. My suspicion is that there is
not a good supply of contractors that can do it right. You're stuck with
whatever is available ... but that's a guess.

Some questions which nobody has asked which I believe have bearing.

1) You say "large". How large is large? Are we talking a 4000
square foot house or are we talking an airship hangar? Do you have
the approximate dimensions?
2) The foundation isn't level. How far out of level is it?
3) Is it flat and just down at one end or is it out of flat as well
and if so how much?

With regard to the question of how you cut to varying lengths with a
chopsaw, I have no idea, but can tell you how to do it with a radial
arm saw. Two ways. For either you need to make or buy shims or
obtain some precision incremental positioner such as an Incra jig.

One is to cut all the studs to a little over the longest length, being
as exact as you can, then set the saw up with a stop that will result
in trimming the exact amount you need to get to the _shortest_ length.
then for the next one put one shim so a little less is cut off,, for
the next one two shims, etc. The advantage of this approach is that
one person can do it fairly easily, the disadvantage is that you have
to cut each stud twice and have twice as many chances to screw up..

The other way is a similar approach but you put the shims at the other
end, so you make a jig that holds the stud to the _longest_ length
required, then cut one, put in a shim and cut the second one, put in
two shims and cut the third, and so on. The disadvantage of the
second approach is that you really need two people to be able to do it
efficiently, the advantage is that you only cut once.

If this is a very long wall you end up with a lot of shims to juggle
as well with either approach.

If you can get by with increments of 1mm or 1/32 inch the original
Incra jig can replace the shims for about 60 bucks at the cost of
having to be more careful with the adjusting--it's easy to move it one
notch too far and not catch it.

Very easy method increase the depth of the sole plate by whatever the
deviation is mark it with a string and trim the sole plate
accordingly

That'll work too and has the advantage that you end up with level
floors and a constant floor-to-ceiling distance.. Neither method is
very good if we're talking "airship hangar".