I get a lot of jobs installing appliances, including over-the-range
microwaves and in-cabinet ovens and double ovens. I work solo and some
of these bad-boys can be pretty heavy.
I have FastCap 3rd Hand supports and have used them for wall cabinet
installations, but I'm not sure I trust them for a double oven.

I have an adjustable hospital over-bed table that is used for serving
meals to bed ridden hospital patients, but I don't think it would
support a double over.

My last-ditch solution is to just build a temporary support, on site,
with 2x lumber.

Any ideas?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 8:47:48 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
I get a lot of jobs installing appliances, including over-the-range
microwaves and in-cabinet ovens and double ovens. I work solo and some
of these bad-boys can be pretty heavy.
I have FastCap 3rd Hand supports and have used them for wall cabinet
installations, but I'm not sure I trust them for a double oven.

I have an adjustable hospital over-bed table that is used for serving
meals to bed ridden hospital patients, but I don't think it would
support a double over.

My last-ditch solution is to just build a temporary support, on site,
with 2x lumber.

Any ideas?

I am the only one of my confederates that is still as active on the job as I am. I work by myself about 1/2 the time, the other half I have other trades or even a helper with me.

I no longer "muscle" things into position like I did as a kiddo. Hanging a microwave is about as far as I will go. These days I make sure that I have someone around to help out when I do the heavy or awkward stuff, and to my surprise, I have found that if I will spend a day doing the things that are safer or much easier than doing it alone the cost of the help pays for itself in speed.

Not to mention my Advil bill. And many times, I can't get something adjust exactly the way I want as I am a couple of hands and eyeballs short to hold or move a piece, read the level, check on gaps, line up indexing marks, etc.

Worse, I dont' seem to heal from all the little pulls, yanks, mashed fingers, bruises, bangs, etc., that you always collect when doing this work all day.

So my suggestion to you... one you will hate...

Have someone else install the big stuff. If I can't hang it on a ledger, put it on my two wheeler, or make a temporary platform, I don't hang it or install it. I can have a double oven pulled, disposed of, and have the new one installed, adjusted for fit and operation and get a warranty for $125 if I buy the appliance and install plan from one of the box stores. That gives me a solid installation plan, a time, fixed cost, and if they drop it or damage it, they own it.

Just my thoughts...

Robert

-MIKE- wrote:
I get a lot of jobs installing appliances, including over-the-range
microwaves and in-cabinet ovens and double ovens. I work solo and some
of these bad-boys can be pretty heavy.
I have FastCap 3rd Hand supports and have used them for wall cabinet
installations, but I'm not sure I trust them for a double oven.

I have an adjustable hospital over-bed table that is used for serving
meals to bed ridden hospital patients, but I don't think it would
support a double over.

My last-ditch solution is to just build a temporary support, on site,
with 2x lumber.

Any ideas?



Use a ramp, one end at the opening and the other on the floor. Slide the
oven up the ramp and in the hole.

On 1/23/18 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 8:47:48 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
I get a lot of jobs installing appliances, including over-the-range
microwaves and in-cabinet ovens and double ovens. I work solo and
some of these bad-boys can be pretty heavy. I have FastCap 3rd Hand
supports and have used them for wall cabinet installations, but I'm
not sure I trust them for a double oven.

I have an adjustable hospital over-bed table that is used for
serving meals to bed ridden hospital patients, but I don't think
it would support a double over.

My last-ditch solution is to just build a temporary support, on
site, with 2x lumber.

Any ideas?

I am the only one of my confederates that is still as active on the
job as I am. I work by myself about 1/2 the time, the other half I
have other trades or even a helper with me.

I no longer "muscle" things into position like I did as a kiddo.
Hanging a microwave is about as far as I will go. These days I make
sure that I have someone around to help out when I do the heavy or
awkward stuff, and to my surprise, I have found that if I will spend
a day doing the things that are safer or much easier than doing it
alone the cost of the help pays for itself in speed.

Not to mention my Advil bill. And many times, I can't get something
adjust exactly the way I want as I am a couple of hands and eyeballs
short to hold or move a piece, read the level, check on gaps, line
up indexing marks, etc.

Worse, I dont' seem to heal from all the little pulls, yanks, mashed
fingers, bruises, bangs, etc., that you always collect when doing
this work all day.

So my suggestion to you... one you will hate...

Have someone else install the big stuff. If I can't hang it on a
ledger, put it on my two wheeler, or make a temporary platform, I
don't hang it or install it. I can have a double oven pulled,
disposed of, and have the new one installed, adjusted for fit and
operation and get a warranty for $125 if I buy the appliance and
install plan from one of the box stores. That gives me a solid
installation plan, a time, fixed cost, and if they drop it or damage
it, they own it.

Just my thoughts...

Robert


Interesting, because $125 is my baseline price for this.
Basically, if everything goes smoothly and the wiring is correct and
nothing needs to be modified, electrically or with the cabinets (ie:
carpentry), it's $125.

HD is supposed to be delivering the new one, removing the old one, and
leaving the empty space in the cabinet. GE assured the buyer that the
new one would be an even swap with the old one, space-wise.

I'm prepared to make any modifications needed, electrically, for changes
regarding aluminum wire, direct connection, 3-4 wire connection, etc.

Client knows that any electrical or carpentry modifications will occur
additional charges.

So basically, the only advice you've given me is that I'm an old man,
too, and to get a young man to help. Gee, thanks, Robert. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:52:00 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/23/18 10:47 PM,

Client knows that any electrical or carpentry modifications will occur
additional charges.

So basically, the only advice you've given me is that I'm an old man,
too, and to get a young man to help. Gee, thanks, Robert. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

If I recall my conversations with Karl, you're actually a few years younger than I am. Maybe more than a few! At any rate, unless I have my guys on site I don't do something like big wall ovens anymore.

Washers, dryers, stoves, still on the slate. Depending on the melt, I will still hang a microwave. But if it has the lightweight vent flaps, the power cord that comes out in a weird place, and the hanging hooks that are small for the bracket, and I have to line up the toggles as well for the front of the machine, I'd rather have one of my boys Take 5 minutes and help me get it in place.

Where I do well on the installations is that when I buy from Lowe's, they often have free installation. And from time to time if they have not heard from me they send me deep discounts on appliances. Either way I come out ahead as I apply those towards an install if I need to. And I won't kick if I get a free install on the normal things that I do.

In the old days I happily did my work as a laborer and then as a house framer for 10 to 12 hours a day everyday. Worked most weekends for extra money. I love to work 10 hours or more, then go drink beer for a couple hours, grab something nasty to eat and then hit the house. In great shape for the next day!

I can still keep up with the guys, but it takes a lot out of me from time to time. 1 Normal work day with paperwork is probably about 14 hours by the time I finish my estimates, invoicing, planning, scheduling, Etc.

I just finished a job before Christmas or I had 3 12 to 13 hour days cutting and removing decking and lifting the fascia across the back of a house and securing it. I loved it as I was away from my phone for a while and didn't have the mountain of paperwork that seems to follow me around. It is different at the end of the day these days... Now I find myself getting in the truck, taking a couple of ibuprofens, stopping for a couple of glasses of dollar tea from McDonald's, and going face down on the bed when I get home.

The old gray mare just ain't what she used to be!

Robert

On 1/23/2018 11:51 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/23/18 10:47 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 8:47:48 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
I get a lot of jobs installing appliances, including over-the-range
microwaves and in-cabinet ovens and double ovens. I work solo and
some of these bad-boys can be pretty heavy. I have FastCap 3rd Hand
supports and have used them for wall cabinet installations, but I'm
not sure I trust them for a double oven.

I have an adjustable hospital over-bed table that is used for serving
meals to bed ridden hospital patients, but I don't think
it would support a double over.

My last-ditch solution is to just build a temporary support, on site,
with 2x lumber.

Any ideas?

I am the only one of my confederates that is still as active on the
job as I am.Â* I work by myself about 1/2 the time, the other half I
have other trades or even a helper with me.

I no longer "muscle" things into position like I did as a kiddo.
Hanging a microwave is about as far as I will go.Â* These days I make
sure that I have someone around to help out when I do the heavy or
awkward stuff, and to my surprise, I have found that if I will spend a
day doing the things that are safer or much easier than doing it alone
the cost of the help pays for itself in speed.

Not to mention my Advil bill.Â* And many times, I can't get something
adjust exactly the way I want as I am a couple of hands and eyeballs
short to hold or move a piece, read the level, check on gaps, line
up indexing marks, etc.

Worse, I dont' seem to heal from all the little pulls, yanks, mashed
fingers, bruises, bangs, etc., that you always collect when doing this
work all day.

So my suggestion to you... one you will hate...

Have someone else install the big stuff. If I can't hang it on a
ledger, put it on my two wheeler, or make a temporary platform, I
don't hang it or install it. I can have a double oven pulled, disposed
of, and have the new one installed, adjusted for fit and operation and
get a warranty for $125 if I buy the appliance and install plan from
one of the box stores.Â* That gives me a solid installation plan, a
time, fixed cost, and if they drop it or damage it, they own it.

Just my thoughts...

Robert


Interesting, because $125 is my baseline price for this.
Basically, if everything goes smoothly and the wiring is correct and
nothing needs to be modified, electrically or with the cabinets (ie:
carpentry), it's $125.

HD is supposed to be delivering the new one, removing the old one, and
leaving the empty space in the cabinet.Â* GE assured the buyer that the
new one would be an even swap with the old one, space-wise.

I'm prepared to make any modifications needed, electrically, for changes
regarding aluminum wire, direct connection, 3-4 wire connection, etc.

Client knows that any electrical or carpentry modifications will occur
additional charges.

So basically, the only advice you've given me is that I'm an old man,
too, and to get a young man to help.Â* Gee, thanks, Robert.Â*Â* :-p



It probably goes with out saying to remove the oven doors and all the
racks inside, before lifting. ;~)

On 1/24/2018 4:12 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:52:00 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/23/18 10:47 PM,

Client knows that any electrical or carpentry modifications will occur
additional charges.

So basically, the only advice you've given me is that I'm an old man,
too, and to get a young man to help. Gee, thanks, Robert. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

If I recall my conversations with Karl, you're actually a few years younger than I am. Maybe more than a few! At any rate, unless I have my guys on site I don't do something like big wall ovens anymore.

Washers, dryers, stoves, still on the slate. Depending on the melt, I will still hang a microwave. But if it has the lightweight vent flaps, the power cord that comes out in a weird place, and the hanging hooks that are small for the bracket, and I have to line up the toggles as well for the front of the machine, I'd rather have one of my boys Take 5 minutes and help me get it in place.

Where I do well on the installations is that when I buy from Lowe's, they often have free installation. And from time to time if they have not heard from me they send me deep discounts on appliances. Either way I come out ahead as I apply those towards an install if I need to. And I won't kick if I get a free install on the normal things that I do.

In the old days I happily did my work as a laborer and then as a house framer for 10 to 12 hours a day everyday. Worked most weekends for extra money. I love to work 10 hours or more, then go drink beer for a couple hours, grab something nasty to eat and then hit the house. In great shape for the next day!

I can still keep up with the guys, but it takes a lot out of me from time to time. 1 Normal work day with paperwork is probably about 14 hours by the time I finish my estimates, invoicing, planning, scheduling, Etc.

I just finished a job before Christmas or I had 3 12 to 13 hour days cutting and removing decking and lifting the fascia across the back of a house and securing it. I loved it as I was away from my phone for a while and didn't have the mountain of paperwork that seems to follow me around. It is different at the end of the day these days... Now I find myself getting in the truck, taking a couple of ibuprofens, stopping for a couple of glasses of dollar tea from McDonald's, and going face down on the bed when I get home.

The old gray mare just ain't what she used to be!

Robert

Geez Robert,,,, I thought you were a Stallion! not a mare... ;~)

On 1/24/18 4:12 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 11:52:00 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/23/18 10:47 PM,

Client knows that any electrical or carpentry modifications will
occur additional charges.

So basically, the only advice you've given me is that I'm an old
man, too, and to get a young man to help. Gee, thanks, Robert.
:-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- www.mikedrums.com

If I recall my conversations with Karl, you're actually a few years
younger than I am. Maybe more than a few! At any rate, unless I
have my guys on site I don't do something like big wall ovens
anymore.

Washers, dryers, stoves, still on the slate. Depending on the melt,
I will still hang a microwave. But if it has the lightweight vent
flaps, the power cord that comes out in a weird place, and the
hanging hooks that are small for the bracket, and I have to line up
the toggles as well for the front of the machine, I'd rather have
one of my boys Take 5 minutes and help me get it in place.

Where I do well on the installations is that when I buy from Lowe's,
they often have free installation. And from time to time if they
have not heard from me they send me deep discounts on appliances.
Either way I come out ahead as I apply those towards an install if I
need to. And I won't kick if I get a free install on the normal
things that I do.

In the old days I happily did my work as a laborer and then as a
house framer for 10 to 12 hours a day everyday. Worked most weekends
for extra money. I love to work 10 hours or more, then go drink beer
for a couple hours, grab something nasty to eat and then hit the
house. In great shape for the next day!

I can still keep up with the guys, but it takes a lot out of me from
time to time. 1 Normal work day with paperwork is probably about 14
hours by the time I finish my estimates, invoicing, planning,
scheduling, Etc.

I just finished a job before Christmas or I had 3 12 to 13 hour days
cutting and removing decking and lifting the fascia across the back
of a house and securing it. I loved it as I was away from my phone
for a while and didn't have the mountain of paperwork that seems to
follow me around. It is different at the end of the day these
days... Now I find myself getting in the truck, taking a couple of
ibuprofens, stopping for a couple of glasses of dollar tea from
McDonald's, and going face down on the bed when I get home.

The old gray mare just ain't what she used to be!

Robert


See Leon's Stallion quip! :-p
I always enjoy your posts and this one was entertaining.

I don't know how Lowes gets away with their "free installation," other
than taking a big hit on the sale to keep the customers coming to their
stores.

This job is actually through Home Depot's Pro Referral, which was a web
site called Red Beacon (terrible name) that Home Depot bought when they
got sick of dealing with installers, directly.
Lowes bought a similar site called "Porch" that they now use for most of
their installation services. I'm on that site, too, but rarely respond
since they charge too much for for referrals for my taste. Pro Referral
is free so long as you're buying stuff from HD.

I hate paperwork, too. Who likes it!? Ever since I got an online
bookkeeping service, it took a lot of the paperwork out of the equation.
Taxes are so easy, now. I just click on the reports and print them off.
I try to stay religious about coming home and entering everything from
that day, mileage, income, etc. The site generates integrated estimates
and invoices, automatically enters CC transactions, estimates quarterly
taxes, and does all the tax reports. That's about 10bucks a month which
is nothing considering the time it saves me. I can deposit checks with
my phone, too. I don't remember the last time I went to by bank.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

See Leon's Stallion quip! :-p

I just want to remind you and Leon that this is the 21st century. We get pick these days! And you can't judge, either. I will turn you both into the PC police.

I always enjoy your posts and this one was entertaining.

I don't know how Lowes gets away with their "free installation," other
than taking a big hit on the sale to keep the customers coming to their
stores.

I don't know either. HD has it from time to time, but I like the appliance lines better (and the pricing) at Lowe's, so I usually go there. Plus, Lowe's is more of a general public remodeling/repair store than HD, so they have more appliances on hand. The last to times I have been emailed a generic 20% off "Pro Advantage Coupon" it has worked with their current sale. So the last time I bought a kitchen full, I got 60% off with $65 haul off and delivery for a dishwasher, microwave, standard oven, and disposal. Free install on the dishwasher (plus parts) and oven (gas, so plus parts there, too).

This job is actually through Home Depot's Pro Referral, which was a web
site called Red Beacon (terrible name) that Home Depot bought when they
got sick of dealing with installers, directly.
Lowes bought a similar site called "Porch" that they now use for most of
their installation services. I'm on that site, too, but rarely respond
since they charge too much for for referrals for my taste. Pro Referral
is free so long as you're buying stuff from HD.

Part of what makes my little company run smoothly is that I manage my customer's expectations and concerns. I write a notoriously, laboriously detailed contract that leaves nothing to chance or imagination. I was slow a few years back and thought I would give both HD and Lowe's a try on their installation of cabinets. The pay wasn't good, and the customers were full of the baloney the salesperson had fed them. "The installer will go over that with you, sir". "The installer will work that out in the field, sir". "The installer can fix that with the materials he carries on his truck, sir. They do it all the time".

I did one job for each, and nothing else. My intent was to do a job like that, put a little money in my pocket, but offer all the rest of my services to the client to promote my business. As it was, it the coordination was so poor, it was not a good fit. Lowe's wanted me to go back out and put in a filler piece a month after it came in (wrong size piece delivered to the job) on a lower kitchen after the tops were in. They held my money until I did, then submitted the bill, and I waited ANOTHER month to get paid. No, thanks.

I hate paperwork, too. Who likes it!? Ever since I got an online
bookkeeping service, it took a lot of the paperwork out of the equation.
Taxes are so easy, now. I just click on the reports and print them off..
I try to stay religious about coming home and entering everything from
that day, mileage, income, etc. The site generates integrated estimates
and invoices, automatically enters CC transactions, estimates quarterly
taxes, and does all the tax reports. That's about 10bucks a month which
is nothing considering the time it saves me. I can deposit checks with
my phone, too. I don't remember the last time I went to by bank.

Quickbooks now has an interface with a lot of banks that will generate reports and do light bookkeeping for you as you enter your checks. Is that what you are using? Sounds like your service is pretty sound. I don't do my own books. I have, and my company is small enough it isn't a big deal, but I am lucky that my CPA always needs to have something done at her house, so a deal has been struck. I pay minimum charges, so one more thing off my plate.

My paperwork is the reports I write (which take hours) after an inspection. I annotate photos, cite code violations, cite Southern Building Codes, add graphics as needed to illustrate my point, etc. Then I invariably get a phone call that asks for an additional report to condense my findings and make point by point recommendations. When I am tired those take forever.

The next part is my painfully detailed estimates. I don't promise to paint a house, I tell them exactly how I am going to do it, what processes are involved, the exact paint, my prep, etc.

I will be up late tonight as I am going to look at a realtor "make ready" and it has me lifting the cabinet over the stove in order to add an over the oven micro, replace two different vanities, a toilet, and do some wall repair and painting. There is outside repair, caulking to replace, a piece of plastic soffit to find, and a patio that needs repairs. There is also an outbuilding they want to reside and paint. I have to find all the crap that fits with their budgets like the vanities, tops, faucets, a microwave, and plug in my cost for plumbing installs like new traps. stops, etc. to get the prices on point.

Then I have to write my recommendations based on my inspection report. After I am through I have to go over the whole thing again to make sure I didn't miss anything as I don't want to be held responsible/liable for deficiencies I find. Then I make sure I have the proper exculpatory language in the mix as some of my estimates and reports go to a corporate office somewhere else for approval, and no telling what a office guy would think I meant when he read my findings/estimate.

That level of detail has been a key in building my business, but it is harder than doing the work for me sometimes.

Anyway... off to the salt mine I go.

Robert

On 1/24/18 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

See Leon's Stallion quip! :-p

I just want to remind you and Leon that this is the 21st century. We
get pick these days! And you can't judge, either. I will turn you
both into the PC police.

I always enjoy your posts and this one was entertaining.

I don't know how Lowes gets away with their "free installation,"
other than taking a big hit on the sale to keep the customers
coming to their stores.

I don't know either. HD has it from time to time, but I like the
appliance lines better (and the pricing) at Lowe's, so I usually go
there. Plus, Lowe's is more of a general public remodeling/repair
store than HD, so they have more appliances on hand. The last to
times I have been emailed a generic 20% off "Pro Advantage Coupon" it
has worked with their current sale. So the last time I bought a
kitchen full, I got 60% off with $65 haul off and delivery for a
dishwasher, microwave, standard oven, and disposal. Free install on
the dishwasher (plus parts) and oven (gas, so plus parts there,
too).

This job is actually through Home Depot's Pro Referral, which was a
web site called Red Beacon (terrible name) that Home Depot bought
when they got sick of dealing with installers, directly. Lowes
bought a similar site called "Porch" that they now use for most of
their installation services. I'm on that site, too, but rarely
respond since they charge too much for for referrals for my taste.
Pro Referral is free so long as you're buying stuff from HD.

Part of what makes my little company run smoothly is that I manage my
customer's expectations and concerns. I write a notoriously,
laboriously detailed contract that leaves nothing to chance or
imagination. I was slow a few years back and thought I would give
both HD and Lowe's a try on their installation of cabinets. The pay
wasn't good, and the customers were full of the baloney the
salesperson had fed them. "The installer will go over that with you,
sir". "The installer will work that out in the field, sir". "The
installer can fix that with the materials he carries on his truck,
sir. They do it all the time".

I did one job for each, and nothing else. My intent was to do a job
like that, put a little money in my pocket, but offer all the rest of
my services to the client to promote my business. As it was, it the
coordination was so poor, it was not a good fit. Lowe's wanted me to
go back out and put in a filler piece a month after it came in (wrong
size piece delivered to the job) on a lower kitchen after the tops
were in. They held my money until I did, then submitted the bill,
and I waited ANOTHER month to get paid. No, thanks.

These new systems are just referral services.
I would never work directly for either for the reasons you described.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 7:14:43 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

These new systems are just referral services.
I would never work directly for either for the reasons you described.

Actually never heard of the referral services from HD or Lowes. Could easily be because I don't pay much attention sometimes.

Are you still using Thumbtack? Like it?

The rage around here is the homeowner associations and their own "Angie's List" setup. No word on that from contractors or clients.

Robert

On 1/24/18 10:49 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 7:14:43 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

These new systems are just referral services. I would never work
directly for either for the reasons you described.

Actually never heard of the referral services from HD or Lowes.
Could easily be because I don't pay much attention sometimes.

Are you still using Thumbtack? Like it?

The rage around here is the homeowner associations and their own
"Angie's List" setup. No word on that from contractors or clients.

Robert


I still use Thumbtack and it works well when it works.
They've made some changes that aren't exactly in the service providers'
best interest, but it's still a good source for work when it's slow. I
also have a very high rate of clients who find me through Thumbtack who
call me back for other work.

It might be worth your while to check out Porch and especially HD's Pro
referral.
Like I stated, Pro Referral is free (you get credits for materials
purchased there) and you are not beholden to HD whatsoever.
One cool thing about Pro Referral is once you develop a decent
reputation in the local stores (you certainly would) the customer
service reps tend to single you out to customers, meaning you're not
competing with other service providers. They have the option of how
many Pros they recommend and just like any other occupation, once they
have someone they can count on, they just go with them.

Porch is a pay-to-play service. You pay per referral but aren't
guaranteed the job. They have an upper level where you pay by month and
get guaranteed referrals in a territory. That could really pay off for
the right person in the right situation.

If you want to check out Thumbtack, send me your email address and I'll
send you a referral link. If you sign up, we both will get free credits
towards bids.

There's also a new site going around called Nextdoor that is just a
website for different neighborhoods to connect. I've gotten a lot of
referrals from that site.

Stay away from Home Advisor. They used to be Service Master and got
such a horrible reputation and terrible reviews that they had to
completely re-brand their entire company.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

-MIKE- wrote:
I get a lot of jobs installing appliances, including over-the-range
microwaves and in-cabinet ovens and double ovens. I work solo and some
of these bad-boys can be pretty heavy.
I have FastCap 3rd Hand supports and have used them for wall cabinet
installations, but I'm not sure I trust them for a double oven.

I have an adjustable hospital over-bed table that is used for serving
meals to bed ridden hospital patients, but I don't think it would
support a double over.

My last-ditch solution is to just build a temporary support, on site,
with 2x lumber.

Any ideas?


My brother owns several apartments and they all have through-the-wall
AC units.
He bought a used Dayton Lift Truck and modified it to lift an air
conditioner and let him just slide it off and into the hole in the
wall. He added casters on the front and a shelf to hold the AC. It
lifts with a cable and pulley system with a crank. Pictures on ABPW.
I believe it originally came from Graingers.
--
G Ross

On 1/24/2018 11:33 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 9:43:06 AM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

See Leon's Stallion quip! :-p

I just want to remind you and Leon that this is the 21st century. We get pick these days! And you can't judge, either. I will turn you both into the PC police.

Haaaaaaash taaaaaaaaaag me 2

I got a kick from rewatching a scene on the news from the "SAG"?,
awards. A bunch of women actors yammering on about standing up against
men making advances and, what amounts to them not being uncomfortable
with their sexuality and not knowing how to handle life and it's
uncertainties.

The awards/trophies that they were accepting was a statue, a totally
nude statue of a man holding a mask in each hand and of course with the
package bulge between the legs. And they stood on a stage with a huge
picture of that statue behind them so that every one in the crowd could
see the nude man statue.

I'm all for women being treated equally and in a respectful manner and
there is certainly numerous cases that are legitimate but you can't be
promoting that stance while holding a statue of a nude man and thanking
an audience for receiving that nude man award.








I always enjoy your posts and this one was entertaining.

I don't know how Lowes gets away with their "free installation," other
than taking a big hit on the sale to keep the customers coming to their
stores.

I don't know either. HD has it from time to time, but I like the appliance lines better (and the pricing) at Lowe's, so I usually go there. Plus, Lowe's is more of a general public remodeling/repair store than HD, so they have more appliances on hand. The last to times I have been emailed a generic 20% off "Pro Advantage Coupon" it has worked with their current sale. So the last time I bought a kitchen full, I got 60% off with $65 haul off and delivery for a dishwasher, microwave, standard oven, and disposal. Free install on the dishwasher (plus parts) and oven (gas, so plus parts there, too).

I suspect that a deal was made for a specific price for a specific type
of install. Now, from a large retailers advantage they buy in large
volumes and almost certainly buy in quantities that require them to take
delivery in enormous lots, so large that they have their own standalone
ware houses and distributio0n centers. When I was in the automotive
business I could get very large discounts for volume buying of single
part numbers. For instance I could replace 3 AC compressors on a stock
order or take advantage of a yearly deal GM would make. The deal often
amounted to a 35~40% discount off of our normal cost when we bought in
lots of 10 or more of a particular part number, I typically bought 30~40
if each part number and that would last the season. That percentage
discount, if similar on appliances, could easily absorb the install cost.



This job is actually through Home Depot's Pro Referral, which was a web
site called Red Beacon (terrible name) that Home Depot bought when they
got sick of dealing with installers, directly.
Lowes bought a similar site called "Porch" that they now use for most of
their installation services. I'm on that site, too, but rarely respond
since they charge too much for for referrals for my taste. Pro Referral
is free so long as you're buying stuff from HD.

On 1/24/2018 10:49 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 7:14:43 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

These new systems are just referral services.
I would never work directly for either for the reasons you described.

Actually never heard of the referral services from HD or Lowes. Could easily be because I don't pay much attention sometimes.

Are you still using Thumbtack? Like it?

The rage around here is the homeowner associations and their own "Angie's List" setup. No word on that from contractors or clients.

Robert



I bought a WH form HD a couple of years ago. I hauled it home. HD
offered a free quote by the installer and that was it. The installer
came out the next morning, a little guy all by him self came out. My
wife and I had already removed the old WH. He quoted us $600 to R&R. I
asked about a discount for him not having to remove. No discount but
the quote was free!

I called another plumbing company out of the blue, the owner and his
helper showed up and did the job for $285 plus parts, $35 for SS
fittings rather than the new brass fittings I purchased.

On 1/25/18 9:06 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/24/2018 10:49 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 7:14:43 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
These new systems are just referral services. I would never work
directly for either for the reasons you described.

Actually never heard of the referral services from HD or Lowes.
Could easily be because I don't pay much attention sometimes.

Are you still using Thumbtack? Like it?

The rage around here is the homeowner associations and their own
"Angie's List" setup. No word on that from contractors or
clients.

Robert



I bought a WH form HD a couple of years ago. I hauled it home. HD
offered a free quote by the installer and that was it. The installer
came out the next morning, a little guy all by him self came out.
My wife and I had already removed the old WH. He quoted us $600 to
R&R. I asked about a discount for him not having to remove. No
discount but the quote was free!

I called another plumbing company out of the blue, the owner and his
helper showed up and did the job for $285 plus parts, $35 for SS
fittings rather than the new brass fittings I purchased.

That was probably his "I don't want to do it" price.
If the customer bites, he gets paid very well for something he doesn't
want to do.
If the customer balks, well, he didn't want to do it anyway. :-)

The price you actually paid seems reasonable. How long were they there?

There are a few websites out there that give general pricing for home
repair/installation tasks. WH installation being one of them. So many
customers come to the party already armed with information about
pricing. This is a 2-edged sword.
Because they often have bad or out-of-context info. If you're lucky,
they've read info that leads them to believe it will cost a lot, instead
of a little.

I had a landlord (I hate working on rentals, because landlords could
squeeze a dime from a nickle) call about replacing a framed shower door
from a fiberglass shower enclosure. This person was the "I'd do it
myself, but...." type who thought every job should take an hour. They
looked up what it should cost to install one. They didn't take into
account removing the old one and cleaning off all the caulk (without
scratching up the surface) hauling it off and disposing of it. Our
dumps charge for commercial disposal, and I don't cheat that system--
the fine is about 20x the disposal fee.

My quote was much higher than they were expecting.
Needless to say, they never called back and I'm fine with that.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/25/2018 9:49 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/25/18 9:06 AM, Leon wrote:
On 1/24/2018 10:49 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 7:14:43 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
These new systems are just referral services. I would never work
directly for either for the reasons you described.

Actually never heard of the referral services from HD or Lowes.
Could easily be because I don't pay much attention sometimes.

Are you still using Thumbtack?Â* Like it?

The rage around here is the homeowner associations and their own
"Angie's List" setup.Â* No word on that from contractors or
clients.

Robert



I bought a WH form HD a couple of years ago.Â* I hauled it home.Â* HD
offered a free quote by the installer and that was it.Â* The installer
Â*came out the next morning, a little guy all by him self came out.
My wife and I had already removed the old WH.Â* He quoted us $600 to
R&R.Â* I asked about a discount for him not having to remove.Â* No
discount but the quote was free!

I called another plumbing company out of the blue, the owner and his
Â*helper showed up and did the job for $285 plus parts, $35 for SS
fittings rather than the new brass fittings I purchased.

That was probably his "I don't want to do it" price.

Precisely.


If the customer bites, he gets paid very well for something he doesn't
want to do.
If the customer balks, well, he didn't want to do it anyway.Â*Â* :-)

The price you actually paid seems reasonable.Â* How long were they there?

A good 2 hours. They had to preposition venting in the attic and go
after extra venting. The new WH was about 6" different in height. They
did not charge me for that.

And to tell you how this all played out, about 6 months later the check
still had not cleared. I called inquiring and they said that I owed
nothing as their copy of the receipt showed that I had paid. I reminded
them that the check had not cleared and they sould do some further
checking. About an hour later they called me back and admitted that
they must have lost my payment. They were shocked and grateful that I
followed up and insisted on paying.



There are a few websites out there that give general pricing for home
repair/installation tasks.Â* WH installation being one of them.Â* So many
customers come to the party already armed with information about
pricing.Â* This is a 2-edged sword.
Because they often have bad or out-of-context info.Â* If you're lucky,
they've read info that leads them to believe it will cost a lot, instead
of a little.

I have installed and charged to do this on numerous occasions 20 plus
years ago..



I had a landlord (I hate working on rentals, because landlords could
squeeze a dime from a nickle) call about replacing a framed shower door
from a fiberglass shower enclosure.Â* This person was the "I'd do it
myself, but...." type who thought every job should take an hour.Â*Â* They
looked up what it should cost to install one.Â* They didn't take into
account removing the old one and cleaning off all the caulk (without
scratching up the surface) hauling it off and disposing of it.Â* Our
dumps charge for commercial disposal, and I don't cheat that system--
the fine is about 20x the disposal fee.

I worked with a friend and we did a lot of landlord stuff. BUT we
refused to do work in occupied rentals. We only did the work between
renters. Empty rentals are bringing in no money so the landlord focuses
more on getting the repairs done vs. the cost.





My quote was much higher than they were expecting.
Needless to say, they never called back and I'm fine with that.

On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 11:15:41 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

I still use Thumbtack and it works well when it works.
They've made some changes that aren't exactly in the service providers'
best interest, but it's still a good source for work when it's slow. I
also have a very high rate of clients who find me through Thumbtack who
call me back for other work.

I will look into that and see if it is a good fit for me. These days I either have a gap here and there, or more than I can do. Last year I had as much as 6 weeks wait time with as many jobs going as I could manage. My repair/maintenance/remodel business doesn't make a lot of money, but thankfully has kept me busy. But I am ALWAYS looking for more sources of work.

It might be worth your while to check out Porch and especially HD's Pro
referral.
Like I stated, Pro Referral is free (you get credits for materials
purchased there) and you are not beholden to HD whatsoever.
One cool thing about Pro Referral is once you develop a decent
reputation in the local stores (you certainly would) the customer
service reps tend to single you out to customers, meaning you're not
competing with other service providers. They have the option of how
many Pros they recommend and just like any other occupation, once they
have someone they can count on, they just go with them.

I will take a look at that, too. My little company is right at the cusp of where some jobs are too small, and some too big. I am reluctant to turn any down as like you, a small job can certainly lead to bigger stuff. But I can't make a trip to go out and install just a medicine cabinet for $35, either. Some things I get the "prevailing market rate" to do (like the oven install referenced above)but it has to be folded into other work. I make my money these days on specialty repairs such as rehanging and entry doors, installation of specialty hardware, stone/brick chimney repairs, difficult waterproofing projects, light remodeling (baths, partial kitchens), house painting, concrete tile roof repairs, etc. The rest of the work is just keeping the lights on. I have a storm door to put up next week... a waste of time. I have to go pick it up, drive it across town and install it; all for $85. Couldn't get out of it though as it is a daughter of one of my long time clients.

Porch is a pay-to-play service. You pay per referral but aren't
guaranteed the job. They have an upper level where you pay by month and
get guaranteed referrals in a territory. That could really pay off for
the right person in the right situation.

If you want to check out Thumbtack, send me your email address and I'll
send you a referral link. If you sign up, we both will get free credits
towards bids.

There's also a new site going around called Nextdoor that is just a
website for different neighborhoods to connect. I've gotten a lot of
referrals from that site.

I might be in touch sooner than you think as I am negotiating a big make ready (+/- 12K) for a realtor and it will be all or nothing for me. If I don't get it, all I have is a series of small repairs. Maybe we could have a quick chat on the phone. We could cover a lot more ground more quickly that way if you are up for it.

Stay away from Home Advisor. They used to be Service Master and got
such a horrible reputation and terrible reviews that they had to
completely re-brand their entire company.

Too late! They already pulled my eyeballs out! I was with them for about two years and got two jobs. For anyone that doesn't know how their "free" service works, the HA computers match up a client with several contractors at once. So if I was a client and needed roof repair, the computer would automatically send out notification via text to 5-6 (maybe more) contractors.. The contractor pays for the notification to the tune of $35 - $55 depending on the work to be done. So every time someone clicks for the "free" service, contractors are charged (in aggregate) about $200 to $300. You have no choice as a contractor; you pay only for the opportunity/lead, nothing else. And you have no control over how many contractors get leads.

And they do not check for insurance.
They do not check for licensing.
They never called one reference of mine.
They never ran a credit report for me or my business.
They never contacted my suppliers to make sure I am a timely payer.

You call them, and a commissioned (yep, the salesperson admitted that) person from HA answers the phone and does everything in their power to get you on their referral list. When I stopped their service, I had several phone calls from them offering to waive the referral fees, giving me discounts, etc. All those guys are is an automated yellow pages that charges you for a listing. Once I got to nearly even with them (less my time, of course) I cancelled in writing.

They are exactly the reason I have never looked into another referral service. Once bitten, twice shy.

Robert

On 1/25/18 12:20 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 11:15:41 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

I still use Thumbtack and it works well when it works. They've
made some changes that aren't exactly in the service providers'
best interest, but it's still a good source for work when it's
slow. I also have a very high rate of clients who find me through
Thumbtack who call me back for other work.

I will look into that and see if it is a good fit for me. These
days I either have a gap here and there, or more than I can do. Last
year I had as much as 6 weeks wait time with as many jobs going as I
could manage. My repair/maintenance/remodel business doesn't make a
lot of money, but thankfully has kept me busy. But I am ALWAYS
looking for more sources of work.

It might be worth your while to check out Porch and especially
HD's Pro referral. Like I stated, Pro Referral is free (you get
credits for materials purchased there) and you are not beholden to
HD whatsoever. One cool thing about Pro Referral is once you
develop a decent reputation in the local stores (you certainly
would) the customer service reps tend to single you out to
customers, meaning you're not competing with other service
providers. They have the option of how many Pros they recommend
and just like any other occupation, once they have someone they can
count on, they just go with them.

I will take a look at that, too. My little company is right at the
cusp of where some jobs are too small, and some too big. I am
reluctant to turn any down as like you, a small job can certainly
lead to bigger stuff. But I can't make a trip to go out and install
just a medicine cabinet for $35, either. Some things I get the
"prevailing market rate" to do (like the oven install referenced
above)but it has to be folded into other work. I make my money
these days on specialty repairs such as rehanging and entry doors,
installation of specialty hardware, stone/brick chimney repairs,
difficult waterproofing projects, light remodeling (baths, partial
kitchens), house painting, concrete tile roof repairs, etc. The
rest of the work is just keeping the lights on. I have a storm door
to put up next week... a waste of time. I have to go pick it up,
drive it across town and install it; all for $85. Couldn't get out of
it though as it is a daughter of one of my long time clients.


For a storm door, my minimum is $125. If it needs to be "built-out"
then I go to hourly with an accurate estimate given to the client.
The good new for you is that they are getting easier and easier to
install. Andersen and Larson are really making great improvements to
their stuff and installation requirements.
I swear, I could probably do 16 in an 8 hour day if they were all at a
condo development and I had someone to unpack everything. :-)


Porch is a pay-to-play service. You pay per referral but aren't
guaranteed the job. They have an upper level where you pay by
month and get guaranteed referrals in a territory. That could
really pay off for the right person in the right situation.

If you want to check out Thumbtack, send me your email address and
I'll send you a referral link. If you sign up, we both will get
free credits towards bids.

There's also a new site going around called Nextdoor that is just a
website for different neighborhoods to connect. I've gotten a lot
of referrals from that site.

I might be in touch sooner than you think as I am negotiating a big
make ready (+/- 12K) for a realtor and it will be all or nothing for
me. If I don't get it, all I have is a series of small repairs.
Maybe we could have a quick chat on the phone. We could cover a lot
more ground more quickly that way if you are up for it.


I'd love to talk! Maybe you and Karl and Steve and I could set up
another google meet up for a video conference while we're at it.
You can email me with your name @ my domain name in my sig.


Stay away from Home Advisor. They used to be Service Master and
got such a horrible reputation and terrible reviews that they had
to completely re-brand their entire company.

Too late! They already pulled my eyeballs out! I was with them for
about two years and got two jobs. For anyone that doesn't know how
their "free" service works, the HA computers match up a client with
several contractors at once. So if I was a client and needed roof
repair, the computer would automatically send out notification via
text to 5-6 (maybe more) contractors. The contractor pays for the
notification to the tune of $35 - $55 depending on the work to be
done. So every time someone clicks for the "free" service,
contractors are charged (in aggregate) about $200 to $300. You have
no choice as a contractor; you pay only for the opportunity/lead,
nothing else. And you have no control over how many contractors get
leads.

And they do not check for insurance. They do not check for licensing.
They never called one reference of mine. They never ran a credit
report for me or my business. They never contacted my suppliers to
make sure I am a timely payer.

You call them, and a commissioned (yep, the salesperson admitted
that) person from HA answers the phone and does everything in their
power to get you on their referral list. When I stopped their
service, I had several phone calls from them offering to waive the
referral fees, giving me discounts, etc. All those guys are is an
automated yellow pages that charges you for a listing. Once I got to
nearly even with them (less my time, of course) I cancelled in
writing.

They are exactly the reason I have never looked into another
referral service. Once bitten, twice shy.

Robert


Sorry you had to go through that but you just validated every hair that
stuck up on my neck whenever I had any contact with them.
Last time one of their con-men tried to get me to sign up, I got to the
point where I literally cussed him out and told him if they didn't put
me on their do-not-call list I would take them to court. (You can get 5
grand if they call you back and you can do it in small-claims court.)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 5:29:04 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

I'd love to talk! Maybe you and Karl and Steve and I could set up
another google meet up for a video conference while we're at it.
You can email me with your name @ my domain name in my sig.

Will do! We will have to send out a search party for Karl, though. I saw him at the wedding of Leon's son and he told me that he actually retired in 2016. I didn't realize that. And apparently, when he said "retired", he meant from everything! I think he is dividing more and more time between two homes these days, enjoying his time.

We'll get together soon.

Robert

On 1/29/18 12:56 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 5:29:04 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

I'd love to talk! Maybe you and Karl and Steve and I could set up
another google meet up for a video conference while we're at it.
You can email me with your name @ my domain name in my sig.

Will do! We will have to send out a search party for Karl, though.
I saw him at the wedding of Leon's son and he told me that he
actually retired in 2016. I didn't realize that. And apparently,
when he said "retired", he meant from everything! I think he is
dividing more and more time between two homes these days, enjoying
his time.

We'll get together soon.

Robert


Karl's on facebook. You should get on there.
Ask your grand kids how. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 1:38:04 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
On 1/29/18 12:56 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 25, 2018 at 5:29:04 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

I'd love to talk! Maybe you and Karl and Steve and I could set up
another google meet up for a video conference while we're at it.
You can email me with your name @ my domain name in my sig.

Will do! We will have to send out a search party for Karl, though.
I saw him at the wedding of Leon's son and he told me that he
actually retired in 2016. I didn't realize that. And apparently,
when he said "retired", he meant from everything! I think he is
dividing more and more time between two homes these days, enjoying
his time.

We'll get together soon.

Robert


Karl's on facebook. You should get on there.
Ask your grand kids how. :-p


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

OUCH!!! Unnecessary!! (still chuckling)

Robert