The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is virtually no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?

Thanks,

Larry

On 4/30/17 7:47 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and
replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is virtually
no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing
opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?

Thanks,

Larry


They make engineered that has a thick enough finish ply that it can be
sanded and refinished. Look into that for the best of both worlds.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 17:47:56 -0700 (PDT), "Gramps' shop"
wrote:

The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and replacing it with hardwood.
The advantage of engineered is virtually no movement.
The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing opportunities.
Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?
Thanks,
Larry


Your home's temperature & humidity conditions might be the
main factor - big swings are bad.
Eventual re-finishing - I would not consider this a big factor.
Our recent hardwood flooring jobs - same installer but
different suppliers - had quite different results.
Both were solid hickory - main floor is quite stable but
a few pieces were infested with powder post beetles -
upper floor had more & larger cracks ... can't win for losing.

Our home is a poor candidate for hardwood floors -
- no air conditioning - hot humid summers
- Canadian winters = dry.

Aclimatize the flooring before install.
Buy extra - waste the sapwood pieces -
and other poor pieces - put them in a closet
if necessary. better yet - in the burn pile.
John T.

The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and
replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is virtually
no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing
opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?
Thanks,
Larry


They make engineered that has a thick enough finish ply that it can be
sanded and refinished. Look into that for the best of both worlds.


I agree - I think the engineered stuff that we saw was about 3/16
on the top layer - careful sanding for touch-ups ...
I wouldn't take a big floor sander to it ..
John T.

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:32:00 -0400, wrote:


The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and
replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is virtually
no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing
opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?
Thanks,
Larry


They make engineered that has a thick enough finish ply that it can be
sanded and refinished. Look into that for the best of both worlds.


I agree - I think the engineered stuff that we saw was about 3/16
on the top layer - careful sanding for touch-ups ...
I wouldn't take a big floor sander to it ..
John T.
Engineered for on slab or below grade. solid hardwood for well
conditioned above ground flooring.

On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 7:58:47 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

They make engineered that has a thick enough finish ply that it can be
sanded and refinished. Look into that for the best of both worlds.

-MIKE-

That would be my take as well. The factory finishes are great if you buy a good material to begin with and should last 15 - 20 years with good care. Then refinish.

And realistically,what are the odds that you will refinish?

Robert

In 15 years, I will be happy just to be able to stand on a floor.

On Mon, 1 May 2017 12:37:21 -0700 (PDT), "Gramps' shop"
wrote:

In 15 years, I will be happy just to be able to stand on a floor.
It'll definitely be a bonus if I'm still standing on the SAME floor -
- -. I put in solid ash hardwood in both living and dining rooms about
10 years ago.

On 5/1/17 11:16 AM, wrote:
On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 7:58:47 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

They make engineered that has a thick enough finish ply that it
can be sanded and refinished. Look into that for the best of both
worlds.

-MIKE-

That would be my take as well. The factory finishes are great if
you buy a good material to begin with and should last 15 - 20 years
with good care. Then refinish.

And realistically,what are the odds that you will refinish?

Robert


That's my opinion to any client who asks every time it comes up and it
comes up all the time. The big fad around here (historic area) is going
back to original architecture and design and people always do it all
without asking the whys or hows.

The factory finishes on these products are amazing and (like you said)
by the time it wears out, the client (or more likely: new owner) has
moved on to another fad or changed the flooring to a different material.
How many times have we seen flooring go from oak, to rough pine, to
light maple, to teak, etc etc etc.

People who wants "real hardwood" floors are doing it for nostalgia or
some ignorant belief that it is better than newer technologies and for
many, once that's in their head, there's no convincing them otherwise.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:16:27 AM UTC-5, wrote:

That would be my take as well. The factory finishes are great if you buy a good material to begin with and should last 15 - 20 years with good care.. Then refinish.


15-20 years??? I've lived in several houses that had real hardwood floors, oak, that were 50-75 years old when we were there. I would very happily use my rip claw to beat to death any fool who bragged about a floor lasting 15-20 years. The carpet in my house is 20 years old and it doesn't look all that bad.

On 4/30/2017 8:47 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is virtually no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?

Thanks,

Larry


About 15 years ago I put engineered wood in my family room. Looks as
good today as it did 15 years ago. It has a very hard factory finish.
I put some in another bedroom. Little used, it is still perfect.

Just be sure to buy a decent grade with a good finish. I'd not bother
with the cheapo stuff unless it was a short term deal or in a closet.

On Mon, 1 May 2017 15:43:16 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:16:27 AM UTC-5, wrote:

That would be my take as well. The factory finishes are great if you buy a good material to begin with and should last 15 - 20 years with good care. Then refinish.


15-20 years??? I've lived in several houses that had real hardwood floors, oak, that were 50-75 years old when we were there. I would very happily use my rip claw to beat to death any fool who bragged about a floor lasting 15-20 years. The carpet in my house is 20 years old and it doesn't look all that bad.
Under "normal residential" use an aluminum oxide fortified catalyzed
urethane varnish finish on a hardwood floor should last closer to
50-75 years. It generally carries a 15 or 20 year warranty - and it
should outlast the warranty by a factor of 3. That said, wear damage
on this new high-tech finish WILL show up differently than an older
phenolic varnish or oil finished hardwood.

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 3:37:27 PM UTC-4, Gramps' shop wrote:
In 15 years, I will be happy just to be able to stand on a floor.

If you'll be lying on said floor, you'll want it to look good close up. ;-)

On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:40:27 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 4/30/2017 8:47 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is virtually no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple refinishing opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you prefer and why?

Thanks,

Larry


About 15 years ago I put engineered wood in my family room. Looks as
good today as it did 15 years ago. It has a very hard factory finish.
I put some in another bedroom. Little used, it is still perfect.

Just be sure to buy a decent grade with a good finish. I'd not bother
with the cheapo stuff unless it was a short term deal or in a closet.
Surprizing how much low quality manufactured hardwood and inferior
laminate you find in resale homes - flippers.I'd give a few thousand
more for the house without it because it would save me tearing it out
and disposing of it.

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:21:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 3:37:27 PM UTC-4, Gramps' shop wrote:
In 15 years, I will be happy just to be able to stand on a floor.

If you'll be lying on said floor, you'll want it to look good close up. ;-)
If he loses his glasses it won't realy matter how good it looks - but
he may want a "softwood" floor - mabee even "cottonwood"

On 5/1/17 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 11:16:27 AM UTC-5,
wrote:

That would be my take as well. The factory finishes are great if
you buy a good material to begin with and should last 15 - 20
years with good care. Then refinish.


15-20 years??? I've lived in several houses that had real hardwood
floors, oak, that were 50-75 years old when we were there. I would
very happily use my rip claw to beat to death any fool who bragged
about a floor lasting 15-20 years. The carpet in my house is 20
years old and it doesn't look all that bad.


We're not talking about the actual flooring, we're talking about the
finish.
Anyone who has had their solid wood floors refinished can attest to how
incredible they look when they are redone. You don't notice how dull
they get because it happened so slowly over those decades. Once it's as
good as new, you realize how dull they were.

The other point we're making is that no consumer actually expects finish
flooring to last more than 20 years because people remodel so often,
now. It's a different consumer market than it was when our grandparents
were deciding on flooring material.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/1/17 9:28 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 1 May 2017 19:40:27 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 4/30/2017 8:47 PM, Gramps' shop wrote:
The boss and I are planning on ripping up 660 sf of carpet and
replacing it with hardwood. The advantage of engineered is
virtually no movement. The advantage of solid is multiple
refinishing opportunities. Any other thoughts as to which you
prefer and why?

Thanks,

Larry


About 15 years ago I put engineered wood in my family room. Looks
as good today as it did 15 years ago. It has a very hard factory
finish. I put some in another bedroom. Little used, it is still
perfect.

Just be sure to buy a decent grade with a good finish. I'd not
bother with the cheapo stuff unless it was a short term deal or in
a closet.
Surprizing how much low quality manufactured hardwood and inferior
laminate you find in resale homes - flippers.I'd give a few thousand
more for the house without it because it would save me tearing it
out and disposing of it.


The range of "hardwood*" flooring products is so vast that it really
hurts the industry as a whole to have such a wide array of products
discussed in the same conversations.

When you have people comparing the low end "laminate" products, which
are basically cardboard with a photograph of wood glued to the top, with
engineered hardwood that has a very thick, solid top veneer, it's like
comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Bugatti Veyron.

The high end engineered (plywood) hardwood flooring products are leaps
and bounds above solid hardwood in terms of quality, reliability, and
longevity in overall performance and finish.

*Using the term "hardwood" as a generic term to describe all flooring
that looks wood-like should be outlawed.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 5:43:22 PM UTC-5, wrote:

15-20 years??? I've lived in several houses that had real hardwood floors, oak, that were 50-75 years old when we were there. I would very happily use my rip claw to beat to death any fool who bragged about a floor lasting 15-20 years. The carpet in my house is 20 years old and it doesn't look all that bad.

Hmmmmm.... maybe you should turn that claw hammer on your own foolish ass until you learn to read for comprehension. Save someone else the trouble.

Robert

Just as a counter-possibility, MY own boss and I put a hardwood Parquet into our condo. Bottom floor (bottom above grade, that is) factory finished, 500 Sq. Ft. Solid oak, but just 1/4" thick.

I liked the factory finish, but I wanted to seal the floor a little better AND I wanted to fill all those voids between the little parquet pieces. With a reasonable amount of care and caution, I was able to scruff up that factory finish (320-grit) and drop another 4 coats of HARCO High gloss poly on top.

We moved out, kept the condo and rented to new tenants 11 years later (by this time, the damned Low VOC coats had run through the stores.) Regardless, I was able to, once again, refinish the floors, this time with a Satin.

I'm a hardwood guy, myself, BUT if refinishing later is the only fear keeping you from going engineered, then I wouldn't think twice about finding a compatible poly or varnish-- it might take a little bit of trial and error. Buy more flooring now, put three or six 2x2' squares of the stuff in your mud room or shop-- someplace with traffic & durability issues. Beat them up over the winter, and then wash & sand lightly to test a few different QUALITY products for compatibility over the next winter. Quality products-- like, NOT Minwax. (HARCO, ZAR, General, are my go-to polys; Unfortunately, Ben Moore's Oil Poly is now nearly impossible to find. Point is, look for the good stuff.)

Once you find your match(es) then you will be confident that you don't have to sand ALL THE WAY DOWN to the lumber to be assured of your new coat sticking.

Definitely also make sure you try a couple of high gloss coats on your test samples-- even if that's not the look you want, the high glosses are "pure poly" where the semis & satins include other chemicals that act as deadeners and therefore can have a harder time gripping onto anything "other." If you wind up refinishing, it's nothing to coat the first time in gloss for the bite, and the second & third coats in the same company's satin for compatibility.

I think this final point goes without saying, but just in case: AVOID the Water based polys at ALL COSTS if you're going over an already factory finished floor. Their coats aren't water based. Compatibility will be difficult at BEST, and durability is trash. (6 coats water to three oil, generally speaking.) I hate Water based polys, period... but I won't talk anyone out of them. Just understand that they're neither as HARD nor as DURABLE (Two very different things) as an Oil, and that for a floor, those are the two most important qualities in a coat.

Hope that helps someone, someday.

S