I'm giving some thought to making one and have been paper building it in
SketchUp. I have never used one - nor even SEEN one - and would like to ask
some questions to those more ecperienced with them.

1. What is the approximate length of the angle iron part of the "T"...the
part that rides along the side of the channel. I'm guessing about 12", does
that sound right?

2. On the outside - away from the saw - of that same piece there has to be
some manner of adjustment to assure the fence is parallel to the saw blade.
Logically, there would be a piece of light steel bar - 1/8"? - to act as a
spring and a couple short, through bolts to act as stops when the fence is
clamped. On the pictures I have seen there is precious little space between
the saw and the saw side of this piece of angle iron. Does one adjust the
stops from the rail side of the angle iron?

3. The "T" also needs to allow for adjusting the fence so it is vertical.
Again, from the pix I have seen, this seems to be accomplished by a couple
of nylon or maybe UHDM bolts, one near and through each end of the angle
iron so that they contact the rail, correct? My worry is that those might
self loosen or tighten what with the fence riding only on them since the
fence is constalrly being moved to and fro. Also, the surface area of those
bolts seems rather small in relation to the weight of the fence and "T". Am
I worrying for naught? Is there a better way?

I was considering using a 1/8" x 3/4" or 1" strip of oak attached to the
underside of the angle iron, UHDM friction pads at the ands of the oak and
set screws from the top of the angle to push the oak and its friction pads
down as needed. Good or bad idea?

------------------------------

Thanks for your input/ideas; they will be - and always are - appreciated.

dadiOH

"dadiOH" wrote:

I'm giving some thought to making one and have been paper building it in
SketchUp. I have never used one - nor even SEEN one

There are MANY on youtube, a short sampling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgPUEHy6A2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pudkvHFOfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpomUDs7hXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0IHnxhSZsg

"Spalted Walt" wrote in message
...
"dadiOH" wrote:

I'm giving some thought to making one and have been paper building it in
SketchUp. I have never used one - nor even SEEN one

There are MANY on youtube, a short sampling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgPUEHy6A2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pudkvHFOfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpomUDs7hXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0IHnxhSZsg

Yes, thank you. I have watched numerous but have not found the details I am
seeking. I'll check out your links tomorrow.

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content. I
would also wish not to have to watch numerous minutes while they perform
some repetitive task. Like drilling, countersinking and tapping a half
dozen or more holes in a piece of steel. I could get the idea with just one
hole

"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

(Scott Lurndal) wrote in
:

"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors
would pay a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and
content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?


Q: Why didn't you do anything about it?
A: No one ever said it was an issue.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would
pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information. Still, I
figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING - they should try to
do it in the best way possible.

"Spalted Walt" wrote in message
...
"dadiOH" wrote:

I'm giving some thought to making one and have been paper building it in
SketchUp. I have never used one - nor even SEEN one

There are MANY on youtube, a short sampling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgPUEHy6A2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pudkvHFOfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpomUDs7hXQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0IHnxhSZsg

I watched them, had seen 3 of the 4 previously. All were useful, none
addewssed my particular concerns. The last one especially was very good in
overcoming my bitches about some Youtube "how to" videos; the sound was
excellent, he explained what he was doing fully but concisely and there was
no extranrous fluff.

On 11/16/2016 3:44 PM, dadiOH wrote:
I'm giving some thought to making one and have been paper building it in
SketchUp. I have never used one - nor even SEEN one - and would like to ask
some questions to those more ecperienced with them.

1. What is the approximate length of the angle iron part of the "T"...the
part that rides along the side of the channel. I'm guessing about 12", does
that sound right?

2. On the outside - away from the saw - of that same piece there has to be
some manner of adjustment to assure the fence is parallel to the saw blade.
Logically, there would be a piece of light steel bar - 1/8"? - to act as a
spring and a couple short, through bolts to act as stops when the fence is
clamped. On the pictures I have seen there is precious little space between
the saw and the saw side of this piece of angle iron. Does one adjust the
stops from the rail side of the angle iron?

3. The "T" also needs to allow for adjusting the fence so it is vertical.
Again, from the pix I have seen, this seems to be accomplished by a couple
of nylon or maybe UHDM bolts, one near and through each end of the angle
iron so that they contact the rail, correct? My worry is that those might
self loosen or tighten what with the fence riding only on them since the
fence is constalrly being moved to and fro. Also, the surface area of those
bolts seems rather small in relation to the weight of the fence and "T". Am
I worrying for naught? Is there a better way?

I was considering using a 1/8" x 3/4" or 1" strip of oak attached to the
underside of the angle iron, UHDM friction pads at the ands of the oak and
set screws from the top of the angle to push the oak and its friction pads
down as needed. Good or bad idea?

------------------------------

Thanks for your input/ideas; they will be - and always are - appreciated.

dadiOH




Here is the Saw Stop fence diagram and install instructions.

http://www.sawstop.com/images/upload...8Oct_08%29.pdf

On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would
pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information. Still, I
figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING - they should try to
do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't care
less.
The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced" youtube videos have
saved me so much time and grief over the years, I'm too thankful to
worry about whether the person uploading the video tried hard enough.
sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos have
helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save literally
thousands of dollars.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/17/2016 11:12 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos have
helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save literally
thousands of dollars.


Ditto. Have built well over a hundred desktop computers/servers in years
past, but always found laptops more than a bit dicey to work on.
However, youtube is excellent for things like repairing laptops.
Recently replaced the keyboard in one, and a screen in another thanks to
youtube.

Except for allowing keyboard input from the virtually brain dead, the
interwebz does fulfill some of its original promise.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 12:12:52 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would
pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information. Still, I
figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING - they should try to
do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't care
less.
The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced" youtube videos have
saved me so much time and grief over the years, I'm too thankful to
worry about whether the person uploading the video tried hard enough.
sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos have
helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save literally
thousands of dollars.



+1

Now I have to figure out how to get the grease off my keyboard.

I'll bet there's a video for that. ;-)

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 11/16/2016 3:44 PM, dadiOH wrote:
I'm giving some thought to making one and have been paper building it in
SketchUp. I have never used one - nor even SEEN one - and would like to
ask
some questions to those more ecperienced with them.

1. What is the approximate length of the angle iron part of the "T"...the
part that rides along the side of the channel. I'm guessing about 12",
does
that sound right?

2. On the outside - away from the saw - of that same piece there has to
be
some manner of adjustment to assure the fence is parallel to the saw
blade.
Logically, there would be a piece of light steel bar - 1/8"? - to act as
a
spring and a couple short, through bolts to act as stops when the fence
is
clamped. On the pictures I have seen there is precious little space
between
the saw and the saw side of this piece of angle iron. Does one adjust
the
stops from the rail side of the angle iron?

3. The "T" also needs to allow for adjusting the fence so it is vertical.
Again, from the pix I have seen, this seems to be accomplished by a
couple
of nylon or maybe UHDM bolts, one near and through each end of the angle
iron so that they contact the rail, correct? My worry is that those
might
self loosen or tighten what with the fence riding only on them since the
fence is constalrly being moved to and fro. Also, the surface area of
those
bolts seems rather small in relation to the weight of the fence and "T".
Am
I worrying for naught? Is there a better way?

I was considering using a 1/8" x 3/4" or 1" strip of oak attached to the
underside of the angle iron, UHDM friction pads at the ands of the oak
and
set screws from the top of the angle to push the oak and its friction
pads
down as needed. Good or bad idea?

------------------------------

Thanks for your input/ideas; they will be - and always are - appreciated.

dadiOH




Here is the Saw Stop fence diagram and install instructions.

http://www.sawstop.com/images/upload...8Oct_08%29.pdf

Thank you, Leon, that will be quite useful. I assume you have this fence?
If so, could I impose on you sometime you are in your shop and ask you to
measure the length of the "T" to which the fence attaches? It lools to be
12"-14" and I am sure the length is not critical but the shorter it is the
shorter I can make the rail, not a lot of room left in my workshop

On 11/17/16 12:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2016 at 12:12:52 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would
pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information. Still, I
figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING - they should try to
do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't care
less.
The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced" youtube videos have
saved me so much time and grief over the years, I'm too thankful to
worry about whether the person uploading the video tried hard enough.
sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos have
helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save literally
thousands of dollars.



+1

Now I have to figure out how to get the grease off my keyboard.

I'll bet there's a video for that. ;-)


HA! Yeah, I'm looking at some from my last car repair, that I didn't
get off yet. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/17/2016 12:20 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Snip



Here is the Saw Stop fence diagram and install instructions.

http://www.sawstop.com/images/upload...8Oct_08%29.pdf

Thank you, Leon, that will be quite useful. I assume you have this fence?

Yes

If so, could I impose on you sometime you are in your shop and ask you to
measure the length of the "T" to which the fence attaches? It lools to be
12"-14" and I am sure the length is not critical but the shorter it is the
shorter I can make the rail, not a lot of room left in my workshop



The T is 16" long and the fence is about 46" long.

FWIW the longer "T" affords easier minute adjustments when squaring to
the miter slots.

I will add that this is on the "industrial" SawStop. The smaller
professional and contractor saws also have smaller fences.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 11/17/2016 12:20 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Snip



Here is the Saw Stop fence diagram and install instructions.

http://www.sawstop.com/images/upload...8Oct_08%29.pdf

Thank you, Leon, that will be quite useful. I assume you have this
fence?

Yes

If so, could I impose on you sometime you are in your shop and ask you to
measure the length of the "T" to which the fence attaches? It lools to
be
12"-14" and I am sure the length is not critical but the shorter it is
the
shorter I can make the rail, not a lot of room left in my workshop



The T is 16" long and the fence is about 46" long.

Many, many thanks! I've been drawing it 18", just as a guestimate

FWIW the longer "T" affords easier minute adjustments when squaring to the
miter slots.

That was my thinking for the 18". I may - or may not - make it a bit
shorter.

On 11/17/2016 2:10 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 11/17/2016 12:20 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Snip



Here is the Saw Stop fence diagram and install instructions.

http://www.sawstop.com/images/upload...8Oct_08%29.pdf

Thank you, Leon, that will be quite useful. I assume you have this
fence?

Yes

If so, could I impose on you sometime you are in your shop and ask you to
measure the length of the "T" to which the fence attaches? It lools to
be
12"-14" and I am sure the length is not critical but the shorter it is
the
shorter I can make the rail, not a lot of room left in my workshop



The T is 16" long and the fence is about 46" long.

Many, many thanks! I've been drawing it 18", just as a guestimate

FWIW the longer "T" affords easier minute adjustments when squaring to the
miter slots.

That was my thinking for the 18". I may - or may not - make it a bit
shorter.



Keep in mind, if you do not have a right extension table that the right
side of the T dictates that the front rail has to be longer than your
desired rip width by the width of the fence plus the length of the right
side of the T. If you wanted 50" rip capacity the rail needs to be
8~12" longer.

And you have to have a right side table that extends a few inches past
your desired rip capacity to hold up the far in of the fence.

The Biesemeyer Home Shop saw fence has a 14 inch steel T.

On 11/17/2016 8:55 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors would pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

Anything worth doing is worth doing right?
If one doesn't understand that a video that shows drilling 50 repetitive
holes is of no additional value and detracts from the video, they
probably shouldn't be making the video to begin with. Most do not do
this, or speed up the repetitive parts so they are less annoying.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 11/17/2016 12:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information. Still, I
figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING - they should
try to
do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't care
less.
The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced" youtube videos have
saved me so much time and grief over the years, I'm too thankful to
worry about whether the person uploading the video tried hard enough.
sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos have
helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save literally
thousands of dollars.

We have all benefited from Youtube how to videos. Most of the worth
while ones don't show repetitive tasks ad nauseum. It seems strange (to
me) that someone that worked in video production for 15 years is not
annoyed by this.

As one who has never worked a day in video production other than a rare
one of my own, I know it takes very little skill or effort to edit out
tedious repetitive nonsense. I've seen people show this stuff, and then
skip over an important tricky part because they didn't have time...
Shoddy work is shoddy work, whether building a video or a cabinet, or
trying to break a gift horse for riding because after all, it was free.

Now the big thing seems to be speeding up repetitive tasks, which is
getting old fast, and while 2 minutes of high speed drilling is better
than 10 minutes, it is equally unnecessary.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 11/17/2016 3:10 PM, dadiOH wrote:

If so, could I impose on you sometime you are in your shop and ask you to
measure the length of the "T" to which the fence attaches? It lools to
be 12"-14" and I am sure the length is not critical but the shorter it is
the shorter I can make the rail, not a lot of room left in my workshop

I have the small Delta fence that looks exactly like the Bessimier and
Saw Stop fence. I put it on my 1954 Rockwell/Delta contractors saw. It
works fine and cost around $150 a while ago, and still well under $200
at Lowes.

Any way, the "T", which is a piece of angle iron, is
13 3/4" long on mine, and I have the short fence version, not the long
one. I'd think the long one just has longer rails, but not sure. Also,
the rear rail serves no recognizable purpose, far as I can tell. I use
it to mount a rear extension table.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 11/19/16 10:59 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/17/2016 8:55 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
"dadiOH" writes:

Speaking of Youtube, especially the "how to"s, I wish the authors
would pay
a bit more attention to their audio, both its character and content.

You get what you pay for?
Don't look a gift horse in the mouth?

Anything worth doing is worth doing right?
If one doesn't understand that a video that shows drilling 50 repetitive
holes is of no additional value and detracts from the video, they
probably shouldn't be making the video to begin with. Most do not do
this, or speed up the repetitive parts so they are less annoying.


Where can we see your videos which are so awesomely made?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/19/16 11:22 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/17/2016 12:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information.
Still, I figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING -
they should try to do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't
care less. The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced"
youtube videos have saved me so much time and grief over the years,
I'm too thankful to worry about whether the person uploading the
video tried hard enough. sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos
have helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save
literally thousands of dollars.

We have all benefited from Youtube how to videos. Most of the worth
while ones don't show repetitive tasks ad nauseum. It seems strange
(to me) that someone that worked in video production for 15 years is
not annoyed by this.


Some things on youtube annoy me. Vertical video is a biggie.
However, as with everything, I consider the source AND I consider what's
more important. If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from
azimuth shows me how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element
without having to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a
$h!t how shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3
minutes of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.


As one who has never worked a day in video production other than a
rare one of my own, I know it takes very little skill or effort to
edit out tedious repetitive nonsense. I've seen people show this
stuff, and then skip over an important tricky part because they
didn't have time... Shoddy work is shoddy work, whether building a
video or a cabinet, or trying to break a gift horse for riding
because after all, it was free.


If these people *were* trained in video production, I would have a
problem with it. Lord knows I see enough crappy local commercials to
make me want to vomit. The whole point of youtube was that any average
joe could now upload video to the web for anyone in the world to see.
I'll take the crappy production that teaches me something over some guy
showing off his editing skill in video that have no redeeming value
whatsoever.

Two things. Stay away from my channel. :-)
If you run across any kids with a lemonade stand in their yard, go easy
on them. They're still learning.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I am not a YouTube expert, but the hundred or so total videos I have watched have all appeared good to me. They had clear pictures, steady pictures, and good sound. About the same as my television screen. Wonder what kind of video recorder you need to do high quality internet videos? I can still remember the televisions from the 1970s that were black and white, size of a refrigerator on its side, and had grain on the screen about 1/4" in size.. You would have to be an expert in video manipulation to get a modern YouTube video to look that bad.

wrote in message
...
I am not a YouTube expert, but the hundred or so total videos I have watched
have all appeared good to me. They had clear pictures, steady pictures, and
good sound. About the same as my television screen. Wonder what kind of
video recorder you need to do high quality internet videos?

As with most things, it is more about technique than equipment. One can
have the absolute best of whatever and use it poorly, conversly, poor
equipment can give good results when used knowledgeably.

IME, the poor craftsman is constantly searching for better equipment
thinking that will magically elevate the quality of his work. Doesn't.

On Sat, 19 Nov 2016 15:54:11 -0500, "dadiOH" wrote:


wrote in message
...
I am not a YouTube expert, but the hundred or so total videos I have watched
have all appeared good to me. They had clear pictures, steady pictures, and
good sound. About the same as my television screen. Wonder what kind of
video recorder you need to do high quality internet videos?

As with most things, it is more about technique than equipment. One can
have the absolute best of whatever and use it poorly, conversly, poor
equipment can give good results when used knowledgeably.

IME, the poor craftsman is constantly searching for better equipment
thinking that will magically elevate the quality of his work. Doesn't.

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment. I've
had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a straight line.
I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the difference. My track
saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than my circular saw, even with
a fence (which tends to move). There is something the be said for
good tools.

On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

snip

If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from
azimuth shows me how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element
without having to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a
$h!t how shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3
minutes of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.

snip

What year is your Element?

SWMBO bought this 2003 last year. 69K miles. The previous owner lives
in the rust belt, but the E was never driven in the winter. $8K. We
bought it within an hour of the listing showing up on Craigslist.

http://i.imgur.com/iFS55Nz.jpg

krw wrote in
:

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment. I've
had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a straight line.
I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the difference. My track
saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than my circular saw, even with
a fence (which tends to move). There is something the be said for
good tools.


A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, he stops the project to tune or
acquire a tool that will give him the results he desires.

Circular saws seem like such simple things that it's hard to make them
bad. They found a way, though! I pronounced one circular saw I had
borrowed dead when I saw the way the blade moved so readily side-to-side.
Bad bearings or something. I stopped the job and found another saw... a
handsaw but at least it was still sharp!

This post is about the juxtoposition of thought... The "good craftsman"
saying is actually about a "bad craftsman" and circular saws are simple
enough it's easy to make them good.

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 20 Nov 2016 02:57:37 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

krw wrote in
:

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment. I've
had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a straight line.
I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the difference. My track
saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than my circular saw, even with
a fence (which tends to move). There is something the be said for
good tools.


A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, he stops the project to tune or
acquire a tool that will give him the results he desires.

A crafstman doesn't have crapsman tools. There is no tuning a turd.
it will always be a turd.

Circular saws seem like such simple things that it's hard to make them
bad. They found a way, though! I pronounced one circular saw I had
borrowed dead when I saw the way the blade moved so readily side-to-side.
Bad bearings or something. I stopped the job and found another saw... a
handsaw but at least it was still sharp!

Crapsman sure managed the impossible, then. It would *not* cut a
straight line.

This post is about the juxtoposition of thought... The "good craftsman"
saying is actually about a "bad craftsman" and circular saws are simple
enough it's easy to make them good.

It may be "easy" but much too tough for Sears.

On 11/19/16 8:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

snip

If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from azimuth shows me
how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element without having
to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a $h!t how
shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3 minutes
of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.

snip

What year is your Element?

SWMBO bought this 2003 last year. 69K miles. The previous owner lives
in the rust belt, but the E was never driven in the winter. $8K. We
bought it within an hour of the listing showing up on Craigslist.

http://i.imgur.com/iFS55Nz.jpg


Wow, that's quite the coincidence as we have a very similar story
several years back.
Ours is an '07 and had under 45k miles. We responded to a Craigslist
ad within 2 hours and drove 3hrs that day to go see it.

The guy just wanted enough to pay off the loan on his wife's other car,
then he took another 10% off without us even asking.

Bluebook was somewhere around 15 and we paid around 11, IIRC.
The lady at the bank called to ask if our bill of sale was a typo
because she though it was way too low. :-)

Great little car and fun to drive.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/19/16 8:57 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
krw wrote in
:

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment.
I've had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a
straight line. I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the
difference. My track saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than
my circular saw, even with a fence (which tends to move). There is
something the be said for good tools.


A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, he stops the project to
tune or acquire a tool that will give him the results he desires.

Circular saws seem like such simple things that it's hard to make
them bad. They found a way, though! I pronounced one circular saw I
had borrowed dead when I saw the way the blade moved so readily
side-to-side. Bad bearings or something. I stopped the job and found
another saw... a handsaw but at least it was still sharp!

This post is about the juxtoposition of thought... The "good
craftsman" saying is actually about a "bad craftsman" and circular
saws are simple enough it's easy to make them good.

Puckdropper


I was replacing an oak handrail volute for a client who was way too
hands on and thought he knew how to do everything and made sure he told
me such.

I was making a preliminary cut just to remove the old, bad section. I
measured thrice, drew a line, and went out to the van to get a saw. I
came in with my cheap but effective and super-sharp Japanese style pull
saw. The guy looked at me like I was an amateur and started saying
things like, "Hey, I have a really good Milwaukee Sawzall if you want to
use it." "How is that going to..." and at about that moment, I
started cutting.

My cut was so straight, clean, and perfectly on the line that it ended
up being my final cut. The dude's demeanor totally changed and he was
all, "Wow, man, I've never seen anybody use one of those. That thing
cut like butter." I said, "Yeah, I can just control this saw better
than an electric one. Plus, I'm done with the cut by the time I plug in
an extension cord."

Then I explained how a powered saw could jump around and would be too
course of a cut. Then I showed him how I avoided cutting into the other
sections of handrail that were very close to where I was cutting, etc.,
etc.

I don't know what that has to do with your story, but it reminded me of
it. :-)

--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/19/2016 1:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/19/16 11:22 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/17/2016 12:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information.
Still, I figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING -
they should try to do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't
care less. The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced"
youtube videos have saved me so much time and grief over the years,
I'm too thankful to worry about whether the person uploading the
video tried hard enough. sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos
have helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save
literally thousands of dollars.

We have all benefited from Youtube how to videos. Most of the worth
while ones don't show repetitive tasks ad nauseum. It seems strange
(to me) that someone that worked in video production for 15 years is
not annoyed by this.


Some things on youtube annoy me. Vertical video is a biggie.

Pretty much exactly what I'm saying. 5 minutes of repetitive hole
drilling annoys me.

However, as with everything, I consider the source AND I consider what's
more important. If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from
azimuth shows me how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element
without having to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a
$h!t how shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3
minutes of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.

Normally poorly done videos don't depart much information other than the
guy doing it either is stupid, or could care less what he is showing.
I'm not talking pro videos done by professional videographers, I've
already taken into account the folks are doing it free, and are not
professionals. Still, the level of skill and effort needed to
accomplish a decent enough video is _extremely_ low. If you can't get
there you shouldn't be sending them up for the world to see.

As one who has never worked a day in video production other than a
rare one of my own, I know it takes very little skill or effort to
edit out tedious repetitive nonsense. I've seen people show this
stuff, and then skip over an important tricky part because they
didn't have time... Shoddy work is shoddy work, whether building a
video or a cabinet, or trying to break a gift horse for riding
because after all, it was free.

If these people *were* trained in video production, I would have a
problem with it.

It takes no training to recognize an agonizing video of drilling 100
duplicate holes in a board is brutally wrong. The very first time I
downloaded a free video editor, the first thing I did was edit out
unwanted, repetitive junk. No training, no skill and complete success
with close to no effort.

I agree with dadiOH when he mentioned this, and disagree with Scott when
he said 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth'. That doesn't mean I
expect a guy to go to college for videography, work in Hollywood
producing B grade movies for 15 years before he uploads a video to
YouTube. Just means a little care and effort would go a long way.

Two things. Stay away from my channel. :-)

If you make this type of video after 15 years in the business, no need
to ask, I'll stay away automatically:-) This type of "mistake" shouldn't
be made after 5 minutes "in the business".

Really though, I don't think it's a "mistake", it's more like stupid
laziness. Mistakes are expected from amateurs, stupid laziness, not so much.

If you run across any kids with a lemonade stand in their yard, go easy
on them. They're still learning.

I would expect an adult in their life would provide them with sufficient
supervision to allow for a palatable product. If they were charging $10
for a glass of muddy water, I might raise the issue.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 11/19/2016 11:18 PM, krw wrote:
On 20 Nov 2016 02:57:37 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

krw wrote in
:

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment. I've
had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a straight line.
I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the difference. My track
saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than my circular saw, even with
a fence (which tends to move). There is something the be said for
good tools.


A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, he stops the project to tune or
acquire a tool that will give him the results he desires.

A crafstman doesn't have crapsman tools. There is no tuning a turd.
it will always be a turd.

Circular saws seem like such simple things that it's hard to make them
bad. They found a way, though! I pronounced one circular saw I had
borrowed dead when I saw the way the blade moved so readily side-to-side.
Bad bearings or something. I stopped the job and found another saw... a
handsaw but at least it was still sharp!

Crapsman sure managed the impossible, then. It would *not* cut a
straight line.

This post is about the juxtoposition of thought... The "good craftsman"
saying is actually about a "bad craftsman" and circular saws are simple
enough it's easy to make them good.

It may be "easy" but much too tough for Sears.



Actually there are some sears tools that are better than others.
I have a portalign portable drill press. Dead on straight, while the
General and other brands are not.

I have had other tools from Sears that were pretty good too.

_But There also are a ton of their tools that are earn them the Crapsman
moniker._

--
Jeff

On 11/19/2016 9:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

snip

If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from
azimuth shows me how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element
without having to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a
$h!t how shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3
minutes of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.

snip

What year is your Element?

SWMBO bought this 2003 last year. 69K miles. The previous owner lives
in the rust belt, but the E was never driven in the winter. $8K. We
bought it within an hour of the listing showing up on Craigslist.

http://i.imgur.com/iFS55Nz.jpg


Yep, that's a toaster oven with wheels :-)

--
Jeff

On 11/20/2016 9:30 AM, woodchucker wrote:
On 11/19/2016 11:18 PM, krw wrote:
On 20 Nov 2016 02:57:37 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

krw wrote in
:

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment. I've
had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a straight line.
I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the difference. My track
saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than my circular saw, even with
a fence (which tends to move). There is something the be said for
good tools.


A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, he stops the project to
tune or
acquire a tool that will give him the results he desires.

A crafstman doesn't have crapsman tools. There is no tuning a turd.
it will always be a turd.

Circular saws seem like such simple things that it's hard to make them
bad. They found a way, though! I pronounced one circular saw I had
borrowed dead when I saw the way the blade moved so readily
side-to-side.
Bad bearings or something. I stopped the job and found another saw... a
handsaw but at least it was still sharp!

Crapsman sure managed the impossible, then. It would *not* cut a
straight line.

This post is about the juxtoposition of thought... The "good craftsman"
saying is actually about a "bad craftsman" and circular saws are simple
enough it's easy to make them good.

It may be "easy" but much too tough for Sears.



Actually there are some sears tools that are better than others.
I have a portalign portable drill press. Dead on straight, while the
General and other brands are not.

I have had other tools from Sears that were pretty good too.

_But There also are a ton of their tools that are earn them the Crapsman
moniker._


The good Craftsman power tools are the ones that look exactly like
another brand except for color.

"Jack" wrote in message
news
On 11/19/2016 1:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/19/16 11:22 AM, Jack wrote:
On 11/17/2016 12:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/17/16 9:05 AM, dadiOH wrote:

I like Youtube, find it a very valuable source of information.
Still, I figure if someone is going to do something - ANYTHING -
they should try to do it in the best way possible.


As someone who worked in video production for 15 years, I couldn't
care less. The crappiest, worst quality, horribly "produced"
youtube videos have saved me so much time and grief over the years,
I'm too thankful to worry about whether the person uploading the
video tried hard enough. sheesh.

I can't tell you how many car and appliance repairs youtube videos
have helped me make. These $h!tty videos have helped me save
literally thousands of dollars.

We have all benefited from Youtube how to videos. Most of the worth
while ones don't show repetitive tasks ad nauseum. It seems strange
(to me) that someone that worked in video production for 15 years is
not annoyed by this.


Some things on youtube annoy me. Vertical video is a biggie.

Pretty much exactly what I'm saying. 5 minutes of repetitive hole
drilling annoys me.

However, as with everything, I consider the source AND I consider what's
more important. If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from
azimuth shows me how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element
without having to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a
$h!t how shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3
minutes of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.

Normally poorly done videos don't depart much information other than the
guy doing it either is stupid, or could care less what he is showing. I'm
not talking pro videos done by professional videographers, I've already
taken into account the folks are doing it free, and are not professionals.
Still, the level of skill and effort needed to accomplish a decent enough
video is _extremely_ low. If you can't get there you shouldn't be sending
them up for the world to see.

As one who has never worked a day in video production other than a
rare one of my own, I know it takes very little skill or effort to
edit out tedious repetitive nonsense. I've seen people show this
stuff, and then skip over an important tricky part because they
didn't have time... Shoddy work is shoddy work, whether building a
video or a cabinet, or trying to break a gift horse for riding
because after all, it was free.

If these people *were* trained in video production, I would have a
problem with it.

It takes no training to recognize an agonizing video of drilling 100
duplicate holes in a board is brutally wrong. The very first time I
downloaded a free video editor, the first thing I did was edit out
unwanted, repetitive junk. No training, no skill and complete success with
close to no effort.

I agree with dadiOH when he mentioned this, and disagree with Scott when
he said 'don't look a gift horse in the mouth'. That doesn't mean I expect
a guy to go to college for videography, work in Hollywood producing B
grade movies for 15 years before he uploads a video to YouTube. Just
means a little care and effort would go a long way.

Two things. Stay away from my channel. :-)

If you make this type of video after 15 years in the business, no need to
ask, I'll stay away automatically:-) This type of "mistake" shouldn't be
made after 5 minutes "in the business".

Really though, I don't think it's a "mistake", it's more like stupid
laziness. Mistakes are expected from amateurs, stupid laziness, not so
much.

I think part of it may also be due to the "15 minutes of fame" syndrome too.
There are also those that wander away - sometimes FAR away - from the
subject of their video...personal anedote, playful puppy, etc.

But mostly, just lazy and/or unthinking.

On Sun, 20 Nov 2016 10:30:40 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 11/19/2016 11:18 PM, krw wrote:
On 20 Nov 2016 02:57:37 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

krw wrote in
:

No, but what it does do is tell him that it's not the equipment. I've
had saws, both jig and circular, that _would_not_ cut a straight line.
I thought it was me. A decent saw made all the difference. My track
saw is a *hell* of a lot more accurate than my circular saw, even with
a fence (which tends to move). There is something the be said for
good tools.


A good craftsman doesn't blame his tools, he stops the project to tune or
acquire a tool that will give him the results he desires.

A crafstman doesn't have crapsman tools. There is no tuning a turd.
it will always be a turd.

Circular saws seem like such simple things that it's hard to make them
bad. They found a way, though! I pronounced one circular saw I had
borrowed dead when I saw the way the blade moved so readily side-to-side.
Bad bearings or something. I stopped the job and found another saw... a
handsaw but at least it was still sharp!

Crapsman sure managed the impossible, then. It would *not* cut a
straight line.

This post is about the juxtoposition of thought... The "good craftsman"
saying is actually about a "bad craftsman" and circular saws are simple
enough it's easy to make them good.

It may be "easy" but much too tough for Sears.



Actually there are some sears tools that are better than others.
I have a portalign portable drill press. Dead on straight, while the
General and other brands are not.

I have Sears hand tools that are pretty good but every one of their
power tools has been pure junk. Not all were cheap, either.

I have had other tools from Sears that were pretty good too.

I have wrench sets that are great.

_But There also are a ton of their tools that are earn them the Crapsman
moniker._

They're called "power tools". ;-)

On Sunday, November 20, 2016 at 1:12:30 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/19/16 8:46 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, November 19, 2016 at 1:19:50 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:

snip

If a great mechanic who doesn't know aperture from azimuth shows me
how to get to the starter bolts off a Honda Element without having
to remove have the freakin engine, then I don't give a $h!t how
shaky the video is or if I had to scroll forward through 3 minutes
of nonsense to get to the meat. The guy just saved me hours of
headache and/or hundreds of dollars in repair bills.

snip

What year is your Element?

SWMBO bought this 2003 last year. 69K miles. The previous owner lives
in the rust belt, but the E was never driven in the winter. $8K. We
bought it within an hour of the listing showing up on Craigslist.

http://i.imgur.com/iFS55Nz.jpg


Wow, that's quite the coincidence as we have a very similar story
several years back.
Ours is an '07 and had under 45k miles. We responded to a Craigslist
ad within 2 hours and drove 3hrs that day to go see it.

We drove 3 *minutes*. Turns out the seller lived just a few miles from our house.

It was around 9PM when SWMBO called the guy and told him we'd pay his asking price.
He said we'd better come over right then because he had 2 appts with out-of-town people
first thing in the morning. The first one who pays full price gets it.

We went over, I slid under the car with a flashlight (love that ground clearance!) and a few
minutes later I was sitting at his computer typing up a bill of sale. He said I could probably
do it faster than him.

As soon as the check cleared, he called me and dropped the car off. We took it to my indy
mechanic, a former Honda dealer tech that opened his own shop for a complete once over.
He said we basically stole it from the guy.


The guy just wanted enough to pay off the loan on his wife's other car,
then he took another 10% off without us even asking.

Bluebook was somewhere around 15 and we paid around 11, IIRC.
The lady at the bank called to ask if our bill of sale was a typo
because she though it was way too low. :-)

Great little car and fun to drive.


AWD = Donuts in the snow. ;-)