I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.

OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.

My comment is, if it works and solves a problem, why not?

The only problem I can think of is that pocket doors require a pocket and
pockets take up room. The life expetancy would be the same as for any other
door...depends upon how well it was made and how badly it is abused.

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.

OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.


What limits your door to only open 105 degrees? The hinge? Use a
different hinge for that door.

OFWW wrote:

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I missed the part about inset. An inset door is flush to the face frame
which precludes it being a pocket door.

By "inset", did you mean BEHIND the face frame? Must be since you are
thinking "pocket". I can't imagine where you plan to put the pockets though
nor how you expect that pocket to not block other things.

Esthetically, to me, everything should be the same whether overlay,
partially inset or inset.

"dadiOH" wrote in :

OFWW wrote:

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I missed the part about inset. An inset door is flush to the face
frame which precludes it being a pocket door.

By "inset", did you mean BEHIND the face frame? Must be since you are
thinking "pocket". I can't imagine where you plan to put the pockets
though nor how you expect that pocket to not block other things.

I think, if I'm envisioning things correctly, he has an L shaped
block of cabinets. At the bend of the L there's a space that's
basically inaccessible, into which he's going to put drawers
which can be pulled into the adjacent cabinet space (i.e. in
either the long or short leg of the L). So the pocket for the
door would go into that space where the drawers are, and the
drawers would be proportionally narrower.

I think he can make the pocket door flush to the face frame,
because the pocket itself will be in the face frame that's on
the other leg of the L.

Before I tried something like that, tho, I think I'd exhaust
all possibilities for hinges. Things in kitchens are more prone
to warp than most places, and warp in a pocket door could lead
to a very annoying bind.

John

On 5/5/2016 9:44 PM, OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

First, let's get our terminology in synch. What is "hidden" about the
base cabinet?

Are you talking about a "blind corner cabinet"?

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

As Leon mentioned, there are many different hinge options to chose from
with varying degrees of opening and clearance.

_Always_ shop for your hardware FIRST.

Once you know the dimensions/installation parameters for the hardware,
then use those to design your cabinet to accommodate the hardware.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

As always, as long as you are pleased with the design, and it does not
detract from future sale, go for it ...

I would appreciate any and all comments.

Although I've used pocket doors on many cabinets, the only example I
have a photo of is in my office ... mounting this one horizontally, gave
me more room in the interior for a sliding shelf:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...8 90441879858

And yes, cabinet "pocket doors" can be installed as "inset", as you can
see:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...8 95510624626

Again, the hardware is tricky to install (often requires the installer
to fabricate a "follow strip" of a particular dimension), so it is
imperative to carefully incorporate all the hardware requirements into
the cabinet design.

You can usually find a link to "installation guide" online for most
cabinet hardware on the same page as ordering info.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 6 May 2016 07:11:03 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.

My comment is, if it works and solves a problem, why not?

The only problem I can think of is that pocket doors require a pocket and
pockets take up room. The life expetancy would be the same as for any other
door...depends upon how well it was made and how badly it is abused.

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.


What is a "Tambour" door?

On 5/5/2016 9:44 PM, OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

Providing you are making face frame cabinets:

What I often do on base cabinets that are in a corner, or will obviously
have clearance issues with doors and adjoining hardware, is to simply
use a wider stile on the offending side.

You can use a spacer, but the wider stile gnerally solves any clearance
problem nicely.

FWIW ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2016 07:11:03 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side
so that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges
are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there,
like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and
came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought
possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in
on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.

My comment is, if it works and solves a problem, why not?

The only problem I can think of is that pocket doors require a
pocket and pockets take up room. The life expetancy would be the
same as for any other door...depends upon how well it was made and
how badly it is abused.

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.


What is a "Tambour" door?


What is a "Tambour" door?

A tambour door is a roll up door (or maybe roll to the side).
Conventionally, it is made by gluing thin, narrow strips of wood to heavy
canvas. The edges of the strips are 1/4 round or beveled so that the canvas
can bend. The ends of the strips ride in slots in end pieces attached to
the cabinet or desk.

On Fri, 6 May 2016 06:48:36 -0500, Leon wrote:

OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.


What limits your door to only open 105 degrees? The hinge? Use a
different hinge for that door.

Not just the hinge, but the adjoining cabinet or dishwasher, etc.

IOW's only half of a 48" cabinet is visible as half of it is covered
by another cabinet, or dishwasher. In my case if the door is hinged on
the left (for a hidden cabinet on the left side) then when the door is
open it is in the way or partially blocking the door from fully
opening. The oven handles prevent a 160 deg hinge and there is from
what I see limitations of the actions of hidden hinges.

If the door is hinged on the right, then anything past 105 degree's
will hit the adjoining dishwasher, plus you have the width of the
stile to consider and it looks like the best you can get is a 20" door
opening.

I'm probably not explaining this well. I have to go out for a bit,
when I get back I can post a pic of a standard setup which would
probably help a lot.

On 5/6/2016 11:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2016 07:11:03 -0400, "dadiOH"

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.

You can also buy tambour door hardware, and pre-assembled tambour doors
and cut to size.

What is a "Tambour" door?

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...549 529532370

How it's installed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...589 881455362

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 6 May 2016 08:06:36 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I missed the part about inset. An inset door is flush to the face frame
which precludes it being a pocket door.

Yes, the door would appear as if it were a normal inset door for all
intents and purposes. It is a hybrid pocket door in that when the door
is slid back it is not seen because of the cabinet next to it hides
the back half.

By "inset", did you mean BEHIND the face frame? Must be since you are
thinking "pocket". I can't imagine where you plan to put the pockets though
nor how you expect that pocket to not block other things.


In the FF.

Esthetically, to me, everything should be the same whether overlay,
partially inset or inset.


That is what I thought, that there would be no getting around it,
esthetically.

When I get back I'll post a drawing or two.

On Fri, 6 May 2016 16:14:16 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

"dadiOH" wrote in :

OFWW wrote:

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I missed the part about inset. An inset door is flush to the face
frame which precludes it being a pocket door.

By "inset", did you mean BEHIND the face frame? Must be since you are
thinking "pocket". I can't imagine where you plan to put the pockets
though nor how you expect that pocket to not block other things.

I think, if I'm envisioning things correctly, he has an L shaped
block of cabinets. At the bend of the L there's a space that's
basically inaccessible, into which he's going to put drawers
which can be pulled into the adjacent cabinet space (i.e. in
either the long or short leg of the L). So the pocket for the
door would go into that space where the drawers are, and the
drawers would be proportionally narrower.

I think he can make the pocket door flush to the face frame,
because the pocket itself will be in the face frame that's on
the other leg of the L.

Before I tried something like that, tho, I think I'd exhaust
all possibilities for hinges. Things in kitchens are more prone
to warp than most places, and warp in a pocket door could lead
to a very annoying bind.

John

You pretty much have it dead on.

The hybrid pocket door should take up very little space, if any. But
the warping is one of the things that was on my mind as to whether or
not it would be feasible.

On 5/6/2016 11:48 AM, Swingman wrote:

What I often do on base cabinets that are in a corner, or will obviously
have clearance issues with doors and adjoining hardware, is to simply
use a wider stile on the offending side.

You can use a spacer, but the wider stile gnerally solves any clearance
problem nicely.

Example of the wider center stile when I design and build a blind corner
cabinet:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...26474657938978

Making this stile wider gives you wiggle room, both when installing a
run of base cabinets to fit a certain distance, as well as wiggle room
for any extra clearance you may need for doors and drawer hardware.

This specialty cabinet was made a little different than I usually make
them, but the idea is the same.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 05 May 2016 19:44:58 -0700, OFWW wrote:

I just posted the pictures of my idea with a description, hope it is
clear enough.

On Fri, 6 May 2016 12:54:39 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2016 07:11:03 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side
so that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges
are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there,
like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

Racking my brain for a solution I thought about a pocket door and
came
up with a hybrid solution that would probable only lose 1/2 inch on
the width of the drawers for it. I looked on the net, found nothing.
So I came up with a design idea. It would even enhance to opening to
the cabinet making it all much easier to use than I thought
possible.

I am wondering if anyone has seen such a critter, tried it, and the
life expectancy for such a door. I haven't as yet put it into a
drawing in Sketch, but it won't be difficult to do. I did sketch in
on
a tablet.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

I would appreciate any and all comments.

My comment is, if it works and solves a problem, why not?

The only problem I can think of is that pocket doors require a
pocket and pockets take up room. The life expetancy would be the
same as for any other door...depends upon how well it was made and
how badly it is abused.

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.


What is a "Tambour" door?


What is a "Tambour" door?

A tambour door is a roll up door (or maybe roll to the side).
Conventionally, it is made by gluing thin, narrow strips of wood to heavy
canvas. The edges of the strips are 1/4 round or beveled so that the canvas
can bend. The ends of the strips ride in slots in end pieces attached to
the cabinet or desk.


OH, Ok I understand, those I don't think would be reliable enough, let
alone fitting into the decor of the kitchen.
Thanks!

On Fri, 6 May 2016 12:02:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/6/2016 11:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2016 07:11:03 -0400, "dadiOH"

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.

You can also buy tambour door hardware, and pre-assembled tambour doors
and cut to size.

What is a "Tambour" door?

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...549 529532370

How it's installed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...589 881455362

I remember those, and wow, I never changed my mind so fast as when I
saw these. I told Dad

On Fri, 6 May 2016 12:02:06 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/6/2016 11:45 AM, OFWW wrote:
On Fri, 6 May 2016 07:11:03 -0400, "dadiOH"

Tambour doors can solve problems too but are rather fussy to make.

You can also buy tambour door hardware, and pre-assembled tambour doors
and cut to size.

What is a "Tambour" door?

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...549 529532370

How it's installed:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...589 881455362

I remember these, beautiful and looking rock solid.

I never changed my mind so fast, I just replied to DadiOH saying I
didn't think they were reliable, given the desktop thoughts, even
though I always thought they were slick as a kid.

It is a good option. Thanks.

On Fri, 6 May 2016 11:42:19 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/5/2016 9:44 PM, OFWW wrote:
I am about to start making the cabinets I have been asking questions
about. Knowing that once started the base cabinets I am committed to
the project, I realized that my doors were hinged on the wrong side so
that would severely limit the ease of which to get stuff off the
sliding shelves of the "hidden" part of the cabinet.

First, let's get our terminology in synch. What is "hidden" about the
base cabinet?

Are you talking about a "blind corner cabinet"?


You are right, my mistake. I think I picked it up from You tube
searches.

No big deal, one might say, just change the sides that the hinges are
on. Well true, but there are certain inherent limitations there, like
a maximum of a 105 deg hinge without serious degrading of the open
size of the doorway to the cabinet.

As Leon mentioned, there are many different hinge options to chose from
with varying degrees of opening and clearance.

_Always_ shop for your hardware FIRST.


It has been driving me batty, Trying to find hinges that won't
interfere with drawers, won't stand off to far on FF's and especially
when trying to find hidden hinges for doors with an insert and 1/2"
lap on the FF. I forget what they are called. It is what I currently
have and I like the idea of shutting off the cabinets from dust n
stuff. I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

Plus with lack of experience working with them and asking people who
work in the stores selling them who have even less of a clue than I
and its like hitting a stone wall.

Plus my wife would like hidden hinges.



Once you know the dimensions/installation parameters for the hardware,
then use those to design your cabinet to accommodate the hardware.

I could use the same design on three of my cabinets, they would look
like inset doors to the naked eye, and if used would I then be
committed to making all drawers and doors inset as well?

As always, as long as you are pleased with the design, and it does not
detract from future sale, go for it ...

I would appreciate any and all comments.

Although I've used pocket doors on many cabinets, the only example I
have a photo of is in my office ... mounting this one horizontally, gave
me more room in the interior for a sliding shelf:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...8 90441879858

And yes, cabinet "pocket doors" can be installed as "inset", as you can
see:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...8 95510624626

Again, the hardware is tricky to install (often requires the installer
to fabricate a "follow strip" of a particular dimension), so it is
imperative to carefully incorporate all the hardware requirements into
the cabinet design.

You can usually find a link to "installation guide" online for most
cabinet hardware on the same page as ordering info.

Yes, I have downloaded a few, and looked especially at the
measurements. I understand now that a certain distance must be
maintained between the ff and the door so the door can swivel without
hitting the cabinet. But then they often stick out from the stile 5/8
of an inch or thereabouts on each side.

Today one manufacturer said I could place then anywhere from 2 to 6
inches from the bottom of the cabinet, or top which means that slide
out shelves with a 2 inch or so sides should work.

I've asked so many questions already, that I hate asking more, when I
haven't put all I have learned into practice yet. So I thought I'd at
least do one blind corner cabinet first and then follow suit with
whatever hinges and slides I came up with.

The lumber store I just found is closing its doors here in town for
now but staying open elsewhere. At least they will still deliver what
I need. but they were short on hardware, and Wood craft is really not
much better as to having anything in stock to look at.

I've been considering going to a Rocker store about 70 miles away and
bugging them for info on the hardware.

On 5/6/2016 6:06 PM, OFWW wrote:

I never changed my mind so fast, I just replied to DadiOH saying I
didn't think they were reliable, given the desktop thoughts, even
though I always thought they were slick as a kid.

After all, there are some 200 year old roll top desks still going strong.

While care in use would obviously be cautioned in a kitchen base
cabinet, I did one install years back in the kitchen of a recording
studio. It was as a retrofit in place of two top drawers, with a regular
door on the bottom half. Thought it looked great, and the mechanisms
have come a long way since then.

Also saw a bath vanity on Houzz just recently with tambour doors, so it
is not unheard of.

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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On 5/6/2016 6:34 PM, OFWW wrote:
I've asked so many questions already, that I hate asking more, when I
haven't put all I have learned into practice yet. So I thought I'd at
least do one blind corner cabinet first and then follow suit with
whatever hinges and slides I came up with.

Can't emphasize enough the advantages of making the middle stile in a
BCC wide enough to give you some wiggle room in placement.

Doing so can be worth its weight in gold, and can literally save the
day. DAMHIKT

--
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On Fri, 6 May 2016 12:22:02 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/6/2016 11:48 AM, Swingman wrote:

What I often do on base cabinets that are in a corner, or will obviously
have clearance issues with doors and adjoining hardware, is to simply
use a wider stile on the offending side.

You can use a spacer, but the wider stile gnerally solves any clearance
problem nicely.

Example of the wider center stile when I design and build a blind corner
cabinet:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...26474657938978

Making this stile wider gives you wiggle room, both when installing a
run of base cabinets to fit a certain distance, as well as wiggle room
for any extra clearance you may need for doors and drawer hardware.

This specialty cabinet was made a little different than I usually make
them, but the idea is the same.

I was thinking about incorporating the wider stile of the FF into the
door itself. My kitchen is not as big as many are built now.

You can see on the rough drawings I posted in the graphics group.

On Fri, 6 May 2016 18:39:16 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/6/2016 6:34 PM, OFWW wrote:
I've asked so many questions already, that I hate asking more, when I
haven't put all I have learned into practice yet. So I thought I'd at
least do one blind corner cabinet first and then follow suit with
whatever hinges and slides I came up with.

Can't emphasize enough the advantages of making the middle stile in a
BCC wide enough to give you some wiggle room in placement.


I understand that. It is part of the reason for a sliding door
thinking.

In your drawing the door opening was 21 inches, and with the way
things are here it looked like anything more than 20 inches I'd be
gambling big time.

Doing so can be worth its weight in gold, and can literally save the
day. DAMHIKT
^^^^^^ I can't for the life of me figure that one out.
Hope it isn't super simple.

On 5/6/2016 6:34 PM, OFWW wrote:
It has been driving me batty, Trying to find hinges that won't
interfere with drawers, won't stand off to far on FF's and especially
when trying to find hidden hinges for doors with an insert and 1/2"
lap on the FF. I forget what they are called. It is what I currently
have and I like the idea of shutting off the cabinets from dust n
stuff. I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

Plus with lack of experience working with them and asking people who
work in the stores selling them who have even less of a clue than I
and its like hitting a stone wall.

Don't feel bad, with all the doors I've built and installed, and to meet
all sorts of requirements, it can still be a daunting task sorting
through the myriad of hinge options.

Take it in bite sizes.

Since I often have to buy hundreds of hinges for a project, I do my
research based on what is spec'ed, narrow my choices down, then buy one
of each type and do a trial installation using this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...1 88395063922

With a simple use of some scraps, you can test your samples for
suitability - face frames hinges on the front, frameless casework on the
back.

The ability to conveniently, and inexpensively, do a test installation
on scraps gives you a real world test of installation issues, clearances
and adjustability ... and therefore suitability for the project, without
the danger of spending money on something unsuitable for the job.

Websites, like Blum's, also has some good general info to get you in the
ballpark.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 6 May 2016 19:13:07 -0500, Swingman wrote:

On 5/6/2016 6:34 PM, OFWW wrote:
It has been driving me batty, Trying to find hinges that won't
interfere with drawers, won't stand off to far on FF's and especially
when trying to find hidden hinges for doors with an insert and 1/2"
lap on the FF. I forget what they are called. It is what I currently
have and I like the idea of shutting off the cabinets from dust n
stuff. I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

Plus with lack of experience working with them and asking people who
work in the stores selling them who have even less of a clue than I
and its like hitting a stone wall.

Don't feel bad, with all the doors I've built and installed, and to meet
all sorts of requirements, it can still be a daunting task sorting
through the myriad of hinge options.

Take it in bite sizes.

Since I often have to buy hundreds of hinges for a project, I do my
research based on what is spec'ed, narrow my choices down, then buy one
of each type and do a trial installation using this:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...1 88395063922

With a simple use of some scraps, you can test your samples for
suitability - face frames hinges on the front, frameless casework on the
back.

Better idea than building an actual ff and doing it on that.

The ability to conveniently, and inexpensively, do a test installation
on scraps gives you a real world test of installation issues, clearances
and adjustability ... and therefore suitability for the project, without
the danger of spending money on something unsuitable for the job.


Think I'll start on that jig tonight after dinner, or tomorrow at the
latest. Thank you.

Websites, like Blum's, also has some good general info to get you in the
ballpark.

I think I may have been overwhelmed by the time I hit Blum's last
time, so I'll revisit it.

OFWW wrote in news:mebqibth8cdtso0mffrkilmu48an22svso@
4ax.com:

On Fri, 6 May 2016 18:39:16 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Doing so can be worth its weight in gold, and can literally save the
day. DAMHIKT
^^^^^^ I can't for the life of me figure that one out.
Hope it isn't super simple.

Don't ask me how I know this...


John

On Sat, 7 May 2016 02:09:12 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
wrote:

OFWW wrote in news:mebqibth8cdtso0mffrkilmu48an22svso@
4ax.com:

On Fri, 6 May 2016 18:39:16 -0500, Swingman wrote:

Doing so can be worth its weight in gold, and can literally save the
day. DAMHIKT
^^^^^^ I can't for the life of me figure that one out.
Hope it isn't super simple.

Don't ask me how I know this...


John
Thanks, You would think I would know that.

OFWW wrote:

I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

My kitchen doors are 3/4" thick and are 1/2" overlay. That means they stand
out from the FF by 3/4" and overlap them by 1/2" on all four edges. If
something is spilled on the counter top, nothing will get into the cabinet
because the counter top protrudes about 1/4" more from the FF than do the
cab doors. Additionally, it has a drip edge which means the bottom edge
slopes upward toward the back. Water doesn't run up hill.

OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 05 May 2016 19:44:58 -0700, OFWW wrote:

I just posted the pictures of my idea with a description, hope it is
clear enough.

It might be if one knew where to go to look.

On 5/7/2016 5:58 AM, dadiOH wrote:
OFWW wrote:

I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.
My kitchen doors are 3/4" thick and are 1/2" overlay. That means they stand
out from the FF by 3/4" and overlap them by 1/2" on all four edges.

Thought he was talking about concealed hinges causing a 3/4" thick door
to stand off an additional 3/8" off the face frame when closed ...
particularly noticeable on the hinge side of the door.

I do see that occasionally myself. Some hinges are worse than others
with this "standoff", depending upon how many planes can be adjusted
with that type/style hinge ... usually the cheaper ones are the worst
offenders.

Also see it when a DIY'er has added new hinges, with different hole
location requirements, to an existing door. Couple that with a limited
adjustment hinge, and you they often end up with insufficient adjustment
to get you where you need to be.

Looking at a run of cabinets from the side, where the doors stand off
the face frame, is not pleasing to the eye.

That's another reason why I make it a practice to buy a test pair of new
to me hinges so I can mount them in the shop before I buy enough for the
project.

That said, IME most cabinetmakers will settle on a particular Euro
concealed hinge with which they have had previous success, and are
forever reluctant to get out of the comfort zone.

Unfortunately, I do too much retrofitting of existing cabinetry to have
that luxury, therefore often end up in the same state of cornfusion OFFW
was expressing.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 7 May 2016 06:58:38 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:

I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

My kitchen doors are 3/4" thick and are 1/2" overlay. That means they stand
out from the FF by 3/4" and overlap them by 1/2" on all four edges. If
something is spilled on the counter top, nothing will get into the cabinet
because the counter top protrudes about 1/4" more from the FF than do the
cab doors. Additionally, it has a drip edge which means the bottom edge
slopes upward toward the back. Water doesn't run up hill.

If you were to have a light on the inside and it was on with all the
doors closed, and drawers, would the light radiate from around the
edges like there was another world inside it? (like the horror
movies?)


I'd agree with you fully here, except you haven't met my wife. She
would kill me for saying this, and she would deny everything, of
course, but she is challenged when it comes to judging distances,
angles, or anything associated with it.

For instance, take your counter, and drawers, she would be setting a
cup on the counter half full of coffee, and would hit the edge of the
counter and spill everything down the face of the cabinets. Same thing
if she had a pan of water off the stove that she would put temporarily
on the counter.

Even her step mom would tell you that you could put a coffee table on
one wall of a gymnasium and have her walk across the gym diagonally
and yet somehow she's bump into the coffee table. While she has come
to grips with doing that, she still does it. LOL.

Her eyesight is fine, and I can make 3d photographs and she see's them
fine, yet she appears to see anything on a flat plane in the real
world.

Yes, she is a natural blond.

On Sat, 7 May 2016 07:02:19 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Thu, 05 May 2016 19:44:58 -0700, OFWW wrote:

I just posted the pictures of my idea with a description, hope it is
clear enough.

It might be if one knew where to go to look.


My bad, sorry. Guess I will have to join one of those picture groups.
I posted it to ABPW group.

Swingman wrote:

That said, IME most cabinetmakers will settle on a particular Euro
concealed hinge with which they have had previous success, and are
forever reluctant to get out of the comfort zone.

I've used many types of hinges but never the Euro type. I like full overlay
doors and for those I use self closing, partial wrap hinges like these (but
not necessarily Amerock)...
http://amerock.com/self-closing-part...rlay-9570.html

True, the hinge shows but I don't find that objectionable. Also true that
they don't offer the range of adjustment of most Euro style hinges but I've
never needed anything except updown and they do enough of that for me. If
I were a commercial cabinet shop I might well change my mind

OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 06:58:38 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:

I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

My kitchen doors are 3/4" thick and are 1/2" overlay. That means
they stand out from the FF by 3/4" and overlap them by 1/2" on all
four edges. If something is spilled on the counter top, nothing
will get into the cabinet because the counter top protrudes about
1/4" more from the FF than do the cab doors. Additionally, it has a
drip edge which means the bottom edge slopes upward toward the back.
Water doesn't run up hill.

If you were to have a light on the inside and it was on with all the
doors closed, and drawers, would the light radiate from around the
edges like there was another world inside it? (like the horror
movies?)


Less so than if they were inset drawers


I'd agree with you fully here, except you haven't met my wife. She
would kill me for saying this, and she would deny everything, of
course, but she is challenged when it comes to judging distances,
angles, or anything associated with it.

For instance, take your counter, and drawers, she would be setting a
cup on the counter half full of coffee, and would hit the edge of the
counter and spill everything down the face of the cabinets. Same thing
if she had a pan of water off the stove that she would put temporarily
on the counter.


She could empty a 5 gallon jug of water on the counter and all would wind up
on the counter or floor, none in tha cabinets or drawers. Unless there was
a full gale blowing in the kitchen.


Now, if the liquid were tossed AT the face of the cabinet it could run in
but only from the from the top edge; if the door/drawers were inset, it get
in from the top, bottom and both sides.


Even her step mom would tell you that you could put a coffee table on
one wall of a gymnasium and have her walk across the gym diagonally
and yet somehow she's bump into the coffee table. While she has come
to grips with doing that, she still does it. LOL.

Her eyesight is fine, and I can make 3d photographs and she see's them
fine, yet she appears to see anything on a flat plane in the real
world.

Yes, she is a natural blond.

Then count your blessings

On Sat, 7 May 2016 16:05:07 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Swingman wrote:

That said, IME most cabinetmakers will settle on a particular Euro
concealed hinge with which they have had previous success, and are
forever reluctant to get out of the comfort zone.

I've used many types of hinges but never the Euro type. I like full overlay
doors and for those I use self closing, partial wrap hinges like these (but
not necessarily Amerock)...
http://amerock.com/self-closing-part...rlay-9570.html

True, the hinge shows but I don't find that objectionable. Also true that
they don't offer the range of adjustment of most Euro style hinges but I've
never needed anything except updown and they do enough of that for me. If
I were a commercial cabinet shop I might well change my mind


those hinges show, and my wife wants some that don't, except a last
resort. Our hinges currently show like those, externally

On Sat, 7 May 2016 16:12:48 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:
On Sat, 7 May 2016 06:58:38 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

OFWW wrote:

I have seen some cabinet doors that literally stand off the FF
about 3/8 of an inch or more. Spill anything on the counter top and
into the cabinets it will go.

My kitchen doors are 3/4" thick and are 1/2" overlay. That means
they stand out from the FF by 3/4" and overlap them by 1/2" on all
four edges. If something is spilled on the counter top, nothing
will get into the cabinet because the counter top protrudes about
1/4" more from the FF than do the cab doors. Additionally, it has a
drip edge which means the bottom edge slopes upward toward the back.
Water doesn't run up hill.

If you were to have a light on the inside and it was on with all the
doors closed, and drawers, would the light radiate from around the
edges like there was another world inside it? (like the horror
movies?)


Less so than if they were inset drawers

I saw your hinges, those wouldn't be as severe as the others, no way.

I'd agree with you fully here, except you haven't met my wife. She
would kill me for saying this, and she would deny everything, of
course, but she is challenged when it comes to judging distances,
angles, or anything associated with it.

For instance, take your counter, and drawers, she would be setting a
cup on the counter half full of coffee, and would hit the edge of the
counter and spill everything down the face of the cabinets. Same thing
if she had a pan of water off the stove that she would put temporarily
on the counter.


She could empty a 5 gallon jug of water on the counter and all would wind up
on the counter or floor, none in tha cabinets or drawers. Unless there was
a full gale blowing in the kitchen.


Now, if the liquid were tossed AT the face of the cabinet it could run in
but only from the from the top edge; if the door/drawers were inset, it get
in from the top, bottom and both sides.


Even her step mom would tell you that you could put a coffee table on
one wall of a gymnasium and have her walk across the gym diagonally
and yet somehow she's bump into the coffee table. While she has come
to grips with doing that, she still does it. LOL.

Her eyesight is fine, and I can make 3d photographs and she see's them
fine, yet she appears to see anything on a flat plane in the real
world.

Yes, she is a natural blond.

Then count your blessings


Funny thing, as the silver/gray creeps in I think they give high
lights to her hair. NOT TO HER!