Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers while
picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only testing saws in
a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to by this type of saw
only shops certain places and only spends a certain amount of money.

I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much, just
how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not buy one.

I did not think of the Harbor Freight model. I think a comparison between
the middle of the pack against both the top and bottom of the genre would be
very instructive. Probably the reason why it would never happen though is
because they sell advertising to all the makers of the saws they reviewed.

On 7/23/2015 6:46 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

I would think a top dollar tool of this caliber would have addressed
this better. I really like that design, with the articulating arm. All
these tests were with a vac hooked up, the stuff in the box is what got
away. 10 times more getting out than other brands.





http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive and
too inexpensive. ;~)

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.
This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html




I did not think of the Harbor Freight model. I think a comparison
between the middle of the pack against both the top and bottom of the
genre would be very instructive. Probably the reason why it would never
happen though is because they sell advertising to all the makers of the
saws they reviewed.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 7/23/2015 6:46 PM, krw wrote:

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not
a bad tool (have one of them, too).

Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive
and too inexpensive. ;~)

I've noticed (because I've been re-reading American Woodworker
mags from the 1990's) that tool review/test articles in all
the journals have become incredibly poor in recent years.
I suspect the cause is that the author is either given a
very short time to do it, or a very limited number of pages;
thus they select an incomplete set of tools, conduct a
fairly superficial review in 4 pages, and end up with an
"Author's Choice" best tool for some vaguely stated reason
that boils down to "I liked it best".

(for perspective, when AW tested random orbit sanders in the
issue I just read, they tested 33 of them, and claimed they
tried to get every model on the market at that time).

John

On 24/07/2015 8:34 AM, Leon wrote:
On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/



I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.
This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

That they are carried by Lee Valley says something about their quality.
Graham

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:46:34 -0400, krw wrote:

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I wondered about that too. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy
nut, could it be that the other companies are regular advertisers and HF,
if they advertise in WWJ at all, would just do their standard flier.

BTW, I have no experience with the HF 10" scms, but I have the 12" and am
quite happy with it. I did put a better blade and a zero-clearance plate
on it. And it's usually under $200.

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:24:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 6:46 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

I would think a top dollar tool of this caliber would have addressed
this better. I really like that design, with the articulating arm. All
these tests were with a vac hooked up, the stuff in the box is what got
away. 10 times more getting out than other brands.

I thought so too, until I got it home. Otherwise it's a very nice
tool but it sure is messy! A hood solves the problem but at the cost
of even more space and work (cleaning the hood).



http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive and
too inexpensive. ;~)

The "best" and the "best for the price"? ;-)

On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:34:16 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.

I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew
it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really
supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the
wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted.
Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very
convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!

This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but
$1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade
of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)

I did not think of the Harbor Freight model. I think a comparison
between the middle of the pack against both the top and bottom of the
genre would be very instructive. Probably the reason why it would never
happen though is because they sell advertising to all the makers of the
saws they reviewed.

Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:46:34 -0400, krw wrote:

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not
a bad tool (have one of them, too).

I wondered about that too. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy
nut, could it be that the other companies are regular advertisers and
HF, if they advertise in WWJ at all, would just do their standard
flier.

BTW, I have no experience with the HF 10" scms, but I have the 12"
and am quite happy with it. I did put a better blade and a
zero-clearance plate on it. And it's usually under $200.

I also have the 12" model, but I did have the 10" model for a short time.
In the time that I had it, I found nothing at all to complain about with
that saw. I simply wanted the increased cutting capability and the double
compound capability - though I may never really use that. My 12" has been
used a good amount now, and I have nothing at all to complain about with it.
It's accurate right out of the box, and it operates very smoothly. Think I
paid something like $129 for it on sale.

--

-Mike-

In article ,
says...

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 7/23/2015 6:46 PM, krw wrote:

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not
a bad tool (have one of them, too).

Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive
and too inexpensive. ;~)

I've noticed (because I've been re-reading American Woodworker
mags from the 1990's) that tool review/test articles in all
the journals have become incredibly poor in recent years.
I suspect the cause is that the author is either given a
very short time to do it, or a very limited number of pages;
thus they select an incomplete set of tools, conduct a
fairly superficial review in 4 pages, and end up with an
"Author's Choice" best tool for some vaguely stated reason
that boils down to "I liked it best".

(for perspective, when AW tested random orbit sanders in the
issue I just read, they tested 33 of them, and claimed they
tried to get every model on the market at that time).

They're just following the example of Consumer Reports.

On 7/24/2015 2:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 19:46:34 -0400, krw wrote:

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I wondered about that too. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy
nut, could it be that the other companies are regular advertisers and HF,
if they advertise in WWJ at all, would just do their standard flier.

A very good possible reason. Imagine the stink if an inexpensive one
won and was not an advertiser.
I remember the stink that came up when Wood magazine tested glues
several years ago. They showed that TB III was less water resistant
than TB II. TiteBond's response was that TB III meets the "Hoity Toity"
Water proof specs. Those specs did not mention water proof anywhere in
the description, only in the name of the spec. In reality TB III
failed in a test that a user would expect "water proof" to mean.


BTW, I have no experience with the HF 10" scms, but I have the 12" and am
quite happy with it. I did put a better blade and a zero-clearance plate
on it. And it's usually under $200.

Similar to Craftsman table saws, if you are willing to put up with
making a few tweaks and modifications you are good to go.

On 7/24/2015 3:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:34:16 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.

I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew
it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really
supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the
wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted.
Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very
convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!

Well in that respect the test showed that the "gasp" Craftsman needs no
extra room in back either. It is built similar to the Kapex in that
respect.




This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but
$1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade
of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)

Yeah! I would love to have one and would have to think hard about the
Bosch knowing now how much dust comes out. I used to not care much
about dust. I did not use a DC or shop vac. But now with my DC and
Festool vac I seldom have any dust at all even after a large project. I
would hate to have a dust problem again.


I did not think of the Harbor Freight model. I think a comparison
between the middle of the pack against both the top and bottom of the
genre would be very instructive. Probably the reason why it would never
happen though is because they sell advertising to all the makers of the
saws they reviewed.

On 7/24/2015 1:26 PM, John McCoy wrote:
Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 7/23/2015 6:46 PM, krw wrote:

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not
a bad tool (have one of them, too).

Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive
and too inexpensive. ;~)

I've noticed (because I've been re-reading American Woodworker
mags from the 1990's) that tool review/test articles in all
the journals have become incredibly poor in recent years.
I suspect the cause is that the author is either given a
very short time to do it, or a very limited number of pages;
thus they select an incomplete set of tools, conduct a
fairly superficial review in 4 pages, and end up with an
"Author's Choice" best tool for some vaguely stated reason
that boils down to "I liked it best".

Probably right there. And the bigger problem too is that the testers
and writers don't really seem to have a lot of experience with the best
way to do things and or enough time with a type of tool to understand
what is really a feature that counts for some one that uses this type
tool extensively. It's like you said, with my limited experience this
one seems to be best from my point of view.




(for perspective, when AW tested random orbit sanders in the
issue I just read, they tested 33 of them, and claimed they
tried to get every model on the market at that time).


Jeez, are there that many ROS out there? LOL

On 7/24/2015 3:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:24:08 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/23/2015 6:46 PM, krw wrote:
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

I would think a top dollar tool of this caliber would have addressed
this better. I really like that design, with the articulating arm. All
these tests were with a vac hooked up, the stuff in the box is what got
away. 10 times more getting out than other brands.

I thought so too, until I got it home. Otherwise it's a very nice
tool but it sure is messy! A hood solves the problem but at the cost
of even more space and work (cleaning the hood).


I don't recall hearing, in person, the articulating arm Bosch run. Is
it loud? I have an old 12" Delta that you must use hearing protection
just to start it up, no problem cutting wood. I quit using it in the
shop when I bought my first cabinet saw. The cabinet saws produce
superior quality cuts and just as accurate.





http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/

I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

Good question, I guess he had to draw they line for at too expensive and
too inexpensive. ;~)

The "best" and the "best for the price"? ;-)

Yeah, and or the best in 3 price ranges.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 7/24/2015 1:26 PM, John McCoy wrote:

(for perspective, when AW tested random orbit sanders in the
issue I just read, they tested 33 of them, and claimed they
tried to get every model on the market at that time).


Jeez, are there that many ROS out there? LOL

Well, they had 4 or 5 air-powered sanders in the test, to see
if there was any advantage of that style over the electric
ones. (they found them to be lighter and easier to control,
but to need more air than a typical small shop compressor
could supply, and prone to getting lube oil from the exhaust
onto the work).

John

John McCoy wrote:


Well, they had 4 or 5 air-powered sanders in the test, to see
if there was any advantage of that style over the electric
ones. (they found them to be lighter and easier to control,
but to need more air than a typical small shop compressor
could supply, and prone to getting lube oil from the exhaust
onto the work).


It used to be that the air powered units had more options in the amount of
orbital action than the basic ROS, but I don't know if that is even true
anymore. That could allow for a more agressive cut, or for a smoother
finish. As for oil - something is wrong there. In autobody work, oil would
be your biggest enemy during surface prep. I get absolutely no oil on my
finishes with my DA. If an ROS is spotting oil on the work surface,
something is very wrong with that sander. That - or perhaps they used an
air line oiler, which would not at all be recommended for applications like
this.

--

-Mike-

On 7/25/2015 11:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
John McCoy wrote:


Well, they had 4 or 5 air-powered sanders in the test, to see
if there was any advantage of that style over the electric
ones. (they found them to be lighter and easier to control,
but to need more air than a typical small shop compressor
could supply, and prone to getting lube oil from the exhaust
onto the work).


It used to be that the air powered units had more options in the amount of
orbital action than the basic ROS, but I don't know if that is even true
anymore. That could allow for a more agressive cut, or for a smoother
finish. As for oil - something is wrong there. In autobody work, oil would
be your biggest enemy during surface prep. I get absolutely no oil on my
finishes with my DA. If an ROS is spotting oil on the work surface,
something is very wrong with that sander. That - or perhaps they used an
air line oiler, which would not at all be recommended for applications like
this.

One of the reasons I opted for an oilless finish nailer and brad gun.
Not an issue with my framing gun, I don't use it for furniture building,
yet. ;~) My piner is oil type but it is a tiny spot.

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:23:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 3:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:34:16 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.

I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew
it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really
supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the
wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted.
Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very
convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!

Well in that respect the test showed that the "gasp" Craftsman needs no
extra room in back either. It is built similar to the Kapex in that
respect.

I noticed that but it *is* a Crapsman. ;-) Seriously, like a RAS, an
SCMS has to be built *very* well. Any flex in the carriage or rail
will simply ruin a cut.




This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but
$1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade
of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)

Yeah! I would love to have one and would have to think hard about the
Bosch knowing now how much dust comes out. I used to not care much
about dust. I did not use a DC or shop vac. But now with my DC and
Festool vac I seldom have any dust at all even after a large project. I
would hate to have a dust problem again.

You seem to do pretty well without an SCMS.

krw wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:23:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 3:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:34:16 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.

I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew
it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really
supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the
wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted.
Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very
convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!

Well in that respect the test showed that the "gasp" Craftsman needs no
extra room in back either. It is built similar to the Kapex in that
respect.

I noticed that but it *is* a Crapsman. ;-) Seriously, like a RAS, an
SCMS has to be built *very* well. Any flex in the carriage or rail
will simply ruin a cut.




This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but
$1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade
of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)

Yeah! I would love to have one and would have to think hard about the
Bosch knowing now how much dust comes out. I used to not care much
about dust. I did not use a DC or shop vac. But now with my DC and
Festool vac I seldom have any dust at all even after a large project. I
would hate to have a dust problem again.

You seem to do pretty well without an SCMS.

You had to bring up "reason". That prevents me from buying all the time.
:-). I really really can not come close to justifying buying another miter
saw regardless of price. I don't use the one I have now.

In article 236346088459584590.338039lcb11211-
, says...

krw wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:23:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 3:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:34:16 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.

I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew
it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really
supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the
wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted.
Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very
convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!

Well in that respect the test showed that the "gasp" Craftsman needs no
extra room in back either. It is built similar to the Kapex in that
respect.

I noticed that but it *is* a Crapsman. ;-) Seriously, like a RAS, an
SCMS has to be built *very* well. Any flex in the carriage or rail
will simply ruin a cut.




This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but
$1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade
of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)

Yeah! I would love to have one and would have to think hard about the
Bosch knowing now how much dust comes out. I used to not care much
about dust. I did not use a DC or shop vac. But now with my DC and
Festool vac I seldom have any dust at all even after a large project. I
would hate to have a dust problem again.

You seem to do pretty well without an SCMS.

You had to bring up "reason". That prevents me from buying all the time.
:-). I really really can not come close to justifying buying another miter
saw regardless of price. I don't use the one I have now.

But perhaps if you had one that did not have the shortcomings of your
current saw you would use it?

"J. Clarke" wrote:
In article 236346088459584590.338039lcb11211-
, says...

krw wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 10:23:36 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 3:11 PM, krw wrote:
On Fri, 24 Jul 2015 09:34:16 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 7/24/2015 8:36 AM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"krw" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 09:10:12 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

Interesting read and video. I am somewhat amused that they did not
choose to include one they are using in their own shop, Festool. They
claim too expensive but that is relative.

Oddly the Bosch articulating saw is **** poor at dust control.

Why do you find that odd? Don't all Bosch sliders throw sawdust
everywhere? My 12" sure does. So much that I wouldn't use it without
a hood (or outside). Even a DC hooked to the dust port is useless.

http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/10...sted-reviewed/


I wonder why he didn't review the Harbor Freight. For $100 it's not a
bad tool (have one of them, too).

I saw this review in the magazine that I got for a dollar at Rocklers
while picking up a couple parts. They made a big deal about only
testing saws in a certain rice range. Apparently anybody who wants to
by this type of saw only shops certain places and only spends a certain
amount of money.

And wants a tool from a certain Asian area, eh? ;~)



I also read the comment about the Festool saw they have in their vey own
shop. But they considered it to be "outside" the parameters for the
reviews. I was disappointed. If this saw cost three times as much,
just how and why is it better? I would like to know. Even if I did not
buy one.

Hints are that Festool has superior dust collection and the laser is
more accurate. But if you have not seen the saw in person it has a
sweet way to accurately adjust the bevel and fine tune it, a crank
handle. And IIRC it comes with a lot of accessories including one for
measuring and transferring the angle to the saw. And it is very
compact, does not need more room in the back for the carriage to slide.

I was just thinking about moving my SCMS to a permanent table. I knew
it would take a lot of space, 30" front to back, but what really
supervised me was how much of that space is wasted. About 2' from the
wall, on either side of the saw, above the work, is totally wasted.
Sure, one could build cabinets in that space but they wouldn't be very
convenient. Then I looked at the Kapex again. Nice!

Well in that respect the test showed that the "gasp" Craftsman needs no
extra room in back either. It is built similar to the Kapex in that
respect.

I noticed that but it *is* a Crapsman. ;-) Seriously, like a RAS, an
SCMS has to be built *very* well. Any flex in the carriage or rail
will simply ruin a cut.




This link has pop up pictures showing a lot of those features I
mentioned. Still $1400... I am sold on Festool but even I have limits.

http://festools-online.com/561287-fe...miter-saw.html

If I hadn't bought the Bosch I'd probably look hard at it again, but
$1400 *is* a bit rich. Besides, my wife has learned what that shade
of green means (a *lot* of another shade of green) ;-)

Yeah! I would love to have one and would have to think hard about the
Bosch knowing now how much dust comes out. I used to not care much
about dust. I did not use a DC or shop vac. But now with my DC and
Festool vac I seldom have any dust at all even after a large project. I
would hate to have a dust problem again.

You seem to do pretty well without an SCMS.

You had to bring up "reason". That prevents me from buying all the time.
:-). I really really can not come close to justifying buying another miter
saw regardless of price. I don't use the one I have now.

But perhaps if you had one that did not have the shortcomings of your
current saw you would use it?

You absolutely have a valid point and a touché moment. I made a similar
loooong comment about your comment on the Domino. :-). The absolute
biggest drawback of using a miter saw over my TS is the room needed for a
dedicated work bench for the miter saw to make precise repeated cuts on
long pieces. I once had a dedicated bench for my miter saw but once I
added the DUBBY miter sleds to my cabinet saw I no longer needed the miter
saw or the bench.
The big advantage the miter saw would afford me is squaring the ends of
stock an cutting stock to workable lengths. I normally cut stock to
workable lengths with a jig saw.
OTOH a miter saw would allow me to leave my TS set up for rip fence use.
:-).