This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Narex-NAR81341.../dp/B0049MXKZM

I will be making through mortises in oak, or possibly some other
hardwood. Some of the stock will be 1.5" thick. I was worried that
squaring the corners of the routed mortises was going to be a
debilitating chore, but I am encouraged by my first couple of tests with
this chisel.

At its "just-from-the-package" sharpness, it makes a nice clean corner.
Any imprecision will thus be attributable to my lack of skill rather
than the tool. I intend to practice up some.

Next, it's not terribly difficult to plow through the oak. OK, I'm only
gouging out a 1/4 x 1/4 corner in a 1/2" mortise, but it sure is easier
with this purpose-built tool. My test runs have been on 3/4" scraps, so
half the thickness I'll need, but it is very quick. My attempts with
standard bevel-edge chisels were much more cumbersome. I think that the
bevel on this chisel may be at a steeper angle, besides the corner
configuration.

Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones, but I see at least 5 "colors" (grits). Any tips as to which
one(s) I need?

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Greg Guarino wrote:
This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Narex-NAR81341.../dp/B0049MXKZM

I will be making through mortises in oak, or possibly some other
hardwood. Some of the stock will be 1.5" thick. I was worried that
squaring the corners of the routed mortises was going to be a
debilitating chore, but I am encouraged by my first couple of tests
with this chisel.

At its "just-from-the-package" sharpness, it makes a nice clean
corner. Any imprecision will thus be attributable to my lack of skill
rather than the tool. I intend to practice up some.

Next, it's not terribly difficult to plow through the oak. OK, I'm
only gouging out a 1/4 x 1/4 corner in a 1/2" mortise, but it sure is
easier with this purpose-built tool. My test runs have been on 3/4"
scraps, so half the thickness I'll need, but it is very quick. My
attempts with standard bevel-edge chisels were much more cumbersome.
I think that the bevel on this chisel may be at a steeper angle,
besides the corner configuration.

Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones, but I see at least 5 "colors" (grits). Any tips as to which
one(s) I need?

It rather depends on what needs doing, wot? I use silicon carbide but the
same ideas apply...

180/220/280 if I need to take out nicks, 400 & 600 to finish, rarely up to
1000. Don't forget the backs.

I would think silicon carbide on a block would work well for that, sharpen
both edges evenly & simultaneously.

On 5/16/2015 11:45 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones, but I see at least 5 "colors" (grits). Any tips as to which
one(s) I need?

I use the edge of an Arkansas stone to keep them honed.

Doing so religiously after every use, ten years have gone by with no
real need to expend any extra "sharpening" effort.

--
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On 5/16/2015 12:45 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:


Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones, but I see at least 5 "colors" (grits). Any tips as to which
one(s) I need?

Simple really. Just go down to the Town Hall and hone it on the corner
stone.
Glad I could help.

On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:06:16 AM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:

[about sharpening a corner chisel]

Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones...

.. I use silicon carbide but the
same ideas apply...

180/220/280 if I need to take out nicks, 400 & 600 to finish, rarely up to
1000. Don't forget the backs.

I would think silicon carbide on a block would work well for that, sharpen
both edges evenly & simultaneously.

Needs a special block or the geometry is wrong. If the corner chisel is 90 degrees
and the edges are straight across, then the bevels on the inside are NOT
at 90 degrees to each other.

For a 20 degree bevel at the edge, the corner chisel block would have to be
96.77 degrees

For other bevel, the formula is

cos(block_bevel) = sin(chisel_bevel) **2)

and you can't use the 'acos' function, because the branch is wrong...

whit3rd wrote:
On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:06:16 AM UTC-7, dadiOH wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
[about sharpening a corner chisel]

Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones...
.. I use silicon carbide but the
same ideas apply...

180/220/280 if I need to take out nicks, 400 & 600 to finish, rarely up to
1000. Don't forget the backs.

I would think silicon carbide on a block would work well for that, sharpen
both edges evenly & simultaneously.
Needs a special block or the geometry is wrong. If the corner chisel is 90 degrees
and the edges are straight across, then the bevels on the inside are NOT
at 90 degrees to each other.

For a 20 degree bevel at the edge, the corner chisel block would have to be
96.77 degrees
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of the
inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect corner--I
suspect that,without some deviation from what I have described,that it
can't cut a perfect corner. In this case, I think if the corners of the
tenons could were shaved just the slightest amount, that theywould have
a perfect fit in a mortise cut with this tool. Or perhaps, one could
finish with a regular chisel to create the "perfect corner" if desired.
All of this just a guess--Bill.


For other bevel, the formula is

cos(block_bevel) = sin(chisel_bevel) **2)

and you can't use the 'acos' function, because the branch is wrong...

On 5/17/2015 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of the
inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect corner--I
suspect that,without some deviation from what I have described,that it
can't cut a perfect corner.

At my level of expertise it's unwise to be too certain about things, but
I don't understand why you think that the cut won't match the shape of
the chisel. Do you perhaps mean that the outside corner of the chisel
must actually have some tiny radius to it?

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"dadiOH" wrote in :

Greg Guarino wrote:

Now I need to learn how to keep it sharp. People recommended diamond
hones, but I see at least 5 "colors" (grits). Any tips as to which
one(s) I need?

It rather depends on what needs doing, wot? I use silicon carbide but
the same ideas apply...

Exactly - the corner chisel is just like any other chisel, so
you'd use the same grits as you would for the same task on a
regular chisel. Something pretty fine if you just need a light
honeing, otherwise work up thru the grits. Diamond hones are
good because you can get them in small sizes (with safe edges)
that easily fit the bevel. As dadiOH says, you can glue silicon
carbide sandpaper to popsicle sticks for the same result.

180/220/280 if I need to take out nicks, 400 & 600 to finish, rarely
up to 1000. Don't forget the backs.

I think this is one of those tools where you don't want to
touch the backs. Granted, the shape isn't as critical as
something like a Forstner bit, but I think I'd just work the
bevel, unless there was an obvious problem with the backs.

I would think silicon carbide on a block would work well for that,
sharpen both edges evenly & simultaneously.

It would be a weird shaped block. I'd do both sides seperately.

John

Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/17/2015 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of the
inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect corner--I
suspect that,without some deviation from what I have described,that it
can't cut a perfect corner.

At my level of expertise it's unwise to be too certain about things,
but I don't understand why you think that the cut won't match the
shape of the chisel. Do you perhaps mean that the outside corner of
the chisel must actually have some tiny radius to it?

Either that, or there is a slice in the corner. Think about what the
corner must look like if it is at the intersection of 2 bevels. It seems
like to cut a real corner that the bevels would need to be separated.


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Bill wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/17/2015 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of the
inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect
corner--I
suspect that,without some deviation from what I have described,that it
can't cut a perfect corner.

At my level of expertise it's unwise to be too certain about things,
but I don't understand why you think that the cut won't match the
shape of the chisel. Do you perhaps mean that the outside corner of
the chisel must actually have some tiny radius to it?

Either that, or there is a slice in the corner. Think about what the
corner must look like if it is at the intersection of 2 bevels. It
seems like to cut a real corner that the bevels would need to be
separated.
Just for fun, maybe use the tool on the edge of a thin board, fit a
tri-square fit into the corner that was cut with the tool and let us
know whether you can "see light".


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Bill wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/17/2015 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of
the inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect
corner--I suspect that,without some deviation from what I have
described,that it can't cut a perfect corner.

At my level of expertise it's unwise to be too certain about things,
but I don't understand why you think that the cut won't match the
shape of the chisel. Do you perhaps mean that the outside corner of
the chisel must actually have some tiny radius to it?

Either that, or there is a slice in the corner. Think about what the
corner must look like if it is at the intersection of 2 bevels. It
seems like to cut a real corner that the bevels would need to be
separated.


Could one square a corner with a single edge chisel? Of course, by doing one
side at a time. Think of the corner chisel as two single chisels welded
together.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 5/17/2015 9:43 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/17/2015 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of the
inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect
corner--I
suspect that,without some deviation from what I have described,that it
can't cut a perfect corner.

At my level of expertise it's unwise to be too certain about things,
but I don't understand why you think that the cut won't match the
shape of the chisel. Do you perhaps mean that the outside corner of
the chisel must actually have some tiny radius to it?

Either that, or there is a slice in the corner. Think about what the
corner must look like if it is at the intersection of 2 bevels. It
seems like to cut a real corner that the bevels would need to be
separated.
Just for fun, maybe use the tool on the edge of a thin board, fit a
tri-square fit into the corner that was cut with the tool and let us
know whether you can "see light".


---
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I suppose I could try that, but the corners I've made seem pretty crisp
and square. Now, whether the cut is accurately aligned square with the
piece is a matter of my eye acuity and hand dexterity, but the tool
seems up to the task. Here's what I think the edge is shaped like,
(schematically, of course, the angles are not correct) to the best of my
ability to draw it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

There are no curved surfaces in the drawing, all planes.

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Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/17/2015 9:43 PM, Bill wrote:
Bill wrote:
Greg Guarino wrote:
On 5/17/2015 12:47 AM, Bill wrote:
If the back faces make a 90-degree angle, then so will the ends of
the
inside bevels. I'm not sure how the "corner" can cut a perfect
corner--I
suspect that,without some deviation from what I have
described,that it
can't cut a perfect corner.

At my level of expertise it's unwise to be too certain about things,
but I don't understand why you think that the cut won't match the
shape of the chisel. Do you perhaps mean that the outside corner of
the chisel must actually have some tiny radius to it?

Either that, or there is a slice in the corner. Think about what the
corner must look like if it is at the intersection of 2 bevels. It
seems like to cut a real corner that the bevels would need to be
separated.
Just for fun, maybe use the tool on the edge of a thin board, fit a
tri-square fit into the corner that was cut with the tool and let us
know whether you can "see light".


---
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I suppose I could try that, but the corners I've made seem pretty
crisp and square. Now, whether the cut is accurately aligned square
with the piece is a matter of my eye acuity and hand dexterity, but
the tool seems up to the task. Here's what I think the edge is shaped
like, (schematically, of course, the angles are not correct) to the
best of my ability to draw it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguar...n/photostream/

There are no curved surfaces in the drawing, all planes.

It looks like a good tool and I have little doubt that it does a pretty
good job. We just haven't got the answer to the question. I am sure
that with a little help with a regular chisel, you can cut mortises with
sharp corners if you want.



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On 5/18/2015 7:11 AM, Bill wrote:

It looks like a good tool and I have little doubt that it does a pretty
good job. We just haven't got the answer to the question. I am sure
that with a little help with a regular chisel, you can cut mortises with
sharp corners if you want.

Your question is misleading if it is not framed with context.

Are the edges cut by a properly ground corner chisel square/sharp enough
for precision woodworking?

The answer is yes, even when you get down to wood fiber level:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...3 13543515938

Anything more, and good deal less, than what is shown is not germane to
the task the tool is used for.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2015 7:11 AM, Bill wrote:

It looks like a good tool and I have little doubt that it does a pretty
good job. We just haven't got the answer to the question. I am sure
that with a little help with a regular chisel, you can cut mortises with
sharp corners if you want.

Your question is misleading if it is not framed with context.
It was not done on purpose. Your photo speaks for itself as to the
"dilemma" I was contemplating. The "workaround" is evident in the photo.


Are the edges cut by a properly ground corner chisel square/sharp
enough for precision woodworking?

The answer is yes, even when you get down to wood fiber level:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...3 13543515938


Anything more, and good deal less, than what is shown is not germane
to the task the tool is used for.

On 5/18/2015 7:50 PM, Bill wrote:

Your photo speaks for itself as to the "dilemma" I was contemplating.
The "workaround" is evident in the photo.

Figured you would say that, proving what I thought ... that you will see
what your preconceived notions want to see.

The actual corner cut is the upper left, the same orientation as the chisel.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
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Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2015 7:50 PM, Bill wrote:

Your photo speaks for itself as to the "dilemma" I was contemplating.
The "workaround" is evident in the photo.

Figured you would say that, proving what I thought ... that you will
see what your preconceived notions want to see.
Don't get an attitude. I put quite a bit of thought into my
replies. Based on the tool shown, my "preconcieved notions" had some
merit. I did not figure that you would say what you did.


The actual corner cut is the upper left, the same orientation as the
chisel.

Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2015 7:50 PM, Bill wrote:

Your photo speaks for itself as to the "dilemma" I was contemplating.
The "workaround" is evident in the photo.

Figured you would say that, proving what I thought ... that you will
see what your preconceived notions want to see.
FWIW, my 90-degree vee-gouges that are used for wood carving
are not shaped like yours. Sharpening them is a frequently discussed topic.


The actual corner cut is the upper left, the same orientation as the
chisel.

On 5/18/2015 8:50 PM, Bill wrote:
Swingman wrote:
On 5/18/2015 7:11 AM, Bill wrote:

It looks like a good tool and I have little doubt that it does a pretty
good job. We just haven't got the answer to the question. I am sure
that with a little help with a regular chisel, you can cut mortises with
sharp corners if you want.

Your question is misleading if it is not framed with context.
It was not done on purpose. Your photo speaks for itself as to the
"dilemma" I was contemplating. The "workaround" is evident in the photo.


Are the edges cut by a properly ground corner chisel square/sharp
enough for precision woodworking?

The answer is yes, even when you get down to wood fiber level:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...3 13543515938


Anything more, and good deal less, than what is shown is not germane
to the task the tool is used for.


I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

I have a chisel with a square corner. I'm struggling to imagine how that
would not make a square corner in the wood. Is it that the chisel will
push itself in a diagonal direction (toward the corner) due the the
pressure of the wood on the wedge? Is it that the chisel might not be
held vertically? (that one seems possible). Is it that the chisel (any
chisel, I guess) may push the wood surface downward if it isn't
sufficiently sharp, causing the edge (not the corner, specifically) to
be rounded over a little?

I can only say that my test corners look pretty square so far. Getting
that square corner precisely tangent to the arc seems like the bigger
issue.

On Tue, 19 May 2015 09:41:13 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

So am I. It seems to be as to whether a 90 degree corner chisel will,
in fact, cut a 90 degree corner...

I can only say that my test corners look pretty square so far. Getting
that square corner precisely tangent to the arc seems like the bigger
issue.

If the sides of the mortise are precise a corner mortiser used to
square hinge recess corners would index into the corner. One light
tap and you would have a groove to sit the chisel into.

Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

We weren't arguing. At least I wasn't. Have you tried sharpening yet?
I might carve a pop-sickle stick or similar (preferable something
stronger), to help with that bevel near the corner. Be careful not to
round over any edges when you are sharpening. You can't be too careful
on that--take your time. Be careful not to round over the bevels. Pay
careful attention to what you are doing--that you are not rounding over
the edge, and you'll have good results. Put the tool in a vise, or
similar so it doesn't move! Careful strokes and all will be well. Try to
"feel" the angle of the bevel (you can!) No rounding! ; )

Bill

Jerry Osage wrote in :

On Tue, 19 May 2015 09:41:13 -0400, Greg Guarino
wrote:

I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

So am I. It seems to be as to whether a 90 degree corner chisel will,
in fact, cut a 90 degree corner...

Me too :-)

I think it started with the assertion that you can't use a
square block (or any other shape block) with abrasive on it
to sharpen both bevels at once. Which is pretty much a
true statement, in my opinion.

It then wandered off, because, I think, Bill was envisioning
a V-gouge (which has the bevels on the outside, if I'm not
mistaken, and thus won't cut straight down like a corner chisel).

John

On 5/19/2015 8:41 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

No argument, simply stated a fact regarding the performance of a common
woodworking tool, with proof to back it up, based on an observation that
prior discussion had degraded into nothing more than guesses/ill
informed conjecture by those who have not used the tool.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
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On 5/19/2015 12:56 PM, "Jerry Osage" wrote:
If the sides of the mortise are precise a corner mortiser used to
square hinge recess corners would index into the corner. One light
tap and you would have a groove to sit the chisel into.

I don't think that would work in this case. Those "hinge" mortisers
square up to two perpendicular edges. In my case, at least the first cut
involves a straight edge and a semicircle. (imagine the oval plowed out
by a 1/2" bit in a router that moves laterally).

But I do plan to "start" the grooves - or at least the one at the end -
with a straight 1/2" chisel.

On 5/19/2015 3:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/19/2015 8:41 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

No argument, simply stated a fact regarding the performance of a common
woodworking tool, with proof to back it up, based on an observation that
prior discussion had degraded into nothing more than guesses/ill
informed conjecture by those who have not used the tool.



When you sharpen that chisel, do you prefer the "rounding over the
bevel" method? ;~)

Leon wrote:
On 5/19/2015 3:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 5/19/2015 8:41 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

I'm still confused. What is it exactly that you guys are arguing about?

No argument, simply stated a fact regarding the performance of a common
woodworking tool, with proof to back it up, based on an observation that
prior discussion had degraded into nothing more than guesses/ill
informed conjecture by those who have not used the tool.



When you sharpen that chisel, do you prefer the "rounding over the
bevel" method? ;~)

It's a little more difficult to pay attention to doing it right than it
sounds. The mind drifts. I offered the best advise on sharpening I
could in this context.

Leon wrote:

When you sharpen that chisel, do you prefer the "rounding over the
bevel" method? ;~)

We're going to have to hone your sense of humor! ; )

On 5/19/2015 10:31 PM, Bill wrote:

All of this just a guess--Bill.

It's a little more difficult to pay attention to doing it right than it
sounds. The mind drifts. I offered the best advise on sharpening I
could in this context.

It is not just you in this thread ... but why bother to offer "advice",
and geometrical conjecture on a tool, with regard to how it must be
constructed, sharpened and used, which you have neither owned nor used?

Damned good thing the "advice" you requested and received from
knowledgeable folks here on your own projects the last few years was not
on such shaky ground, eh?

Not to be picking on you alone, but what is exhibited in the particular
thread is NOT what kept the wRec a valuable resource for many years.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 5/19/2015 10:31 PM, Bill wrote:

All of this just a guess--Bill.

It's a little more difficult to pay attention to doing it right than it
sounds. The mind drifts. I offered the best advise on sharpening I
could in this context.

It is not just you in this thread ... but why bother to offer
"advice", and geometrical conjecture on a tool, with regard to how it
must be constructed, sharpened and used, which you have neither owned
nor used?

Damned good thing the "advice" you requested and received from
knowledgeable folks here on your own projects the last few years was
not on such shaky ground, eh?

Not to be picking on you alone, but what is exhibited in the
particular thread is NOT what kept the wRec a valuable resource for
many years.


I try to help people the same as they try to help me. Its true. I
note where I wrote above, "All of this just a guess." What more of a
disclaimer do you want?

Bill

Swingman wrote:

It is not just you in this thread ... but why bother to offer
"advice", and geometrical conjecture on a tool, with regard to how it
must be constructed, sharpened and used, which you have neither owned
nor used?


Looking back at my first post in this thread, I got sucked in by a math
problem... We are "community" first, "service" second, no? Few needs
seem to go unfulfilled (expect maybe that time folks banded together to
refuse to comment on how I planned to wire an AC motor!).
Thanks to Lew, I even have a spading fork this year, which I had never
even heard of before it was mentioned..

Bill

On 5/20/2015 5:05 AM, Bill wrote:
Leon wrote:

When you sharpen that chisel, do you prefer the "rounding over the
bevel" method? ;~)

We're going to have to hone your sense of humor! ; )


;~)