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#1
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
Happy Holidays!
I am planning to build new drawers for some stick-built kitchen cabinets. I would like to use full extension, soft close, undermount slides, but having no experience with drawer slides, I don't know if it's practical. The following link shows the view through one of the drawer openings. As you can see, there is currently a 1" wide runner that the edges of the existing drawers simply ride on. The picture shows the right hand runner for the drawer that was removed and the left hand runner for the next drawer over, which is pulled out about 1/2 way. (The yellow vinyl tape on was an attempt to make the runner a little more slippery.) I should note that 2 of the 5 drawers have runners that are only ~3/4" - 11/16" wide, not the full 1" shown in the picture. http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0449775f.jpg The cabinets are ~24" deep, from the back of the face frame to the back wall. The back wall of the cabinets is actually the plaster wall of the house, although there is a cleat that the runners are attached to. I would like the drawers to be as deep as possible. I've seen some 22" slides, which means the drawer boxes have to be 22" long, right? The drawers will be made from either 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood or 1/2" poplar. (opinions welcome, as I'm new at this) Are there undermount drawer slides that will sit on the existing runners or do the runners have to be removed or can they be left in place and the slides installed some other way? If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Thanks for your (gentle) guidance. |
#2
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/29/2014 2:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Happy Holidays! I am planning to build new drawers for some stick-built kitchen cabinets. I would like to use full extension, soft close, undermount slides, but having no experience with drawer slides, I don't know if it's practical. The following link shows the view through one of the drawer openings. As you can see, there is currently a 1" wide runner that the edges of the existing drawers simply ride on. The picture shows the right hand runner for the drawer that was removed and the left hand runner for the next drawer over, which is pulled out about 1/2 way. (The yellow vinyl tape on was an attempt to make the runner a little more slippery.) I should note that 2 of the 5 drawers have runners that are only ~3/4" - 11/16" wide, not the full 1" shown in the picture. http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0449775f.jpg The cabinets are ~24" deep, from the back of the face frame to the back wall. The back wall of the cabinets is actually the plaster wall of the house, although there is a cleat that the runners are attached to. I would like the drawers to be as deep as possible. I've seen some 22" slides, which means the drawer boxes have to be 22" long, right? The drawers will be made from either 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood or 1/2" poplar. (opinions welcome, as I'm new at this) Are there undermount drawer slides that will sit on the existing runners or do the runners have to be removed or can they be left in place and the slides installed some other way? If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Thanks for your (gentle) guidance. Undermounts are nice but can be quite pricey and there is not much wiggle room as far as length is concerned. I never use them but Swingman uses them quite often. That said if you can tolerate seeing the slide I can recommend the standard type side mount full extension soft close. A brand that I have been using lately are G-Slide, I understand tthat they are manufactured by KV. These "soft" close slides tend to be less expensive that standard slides of the same style. http://www.cabinethardware.com/G-Sli...m?1=1&CartID=0 |
#3
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
Happy Holidays! I am planning to build new drawers for some stick-built kitchen cabinets. I would like to use full extension, soft close, undermount slides, but having no experience with drawer slides, I don't know if it's practical. The following link shows the view through one of the drawer openings. As you can see, there is currently a 1" wide runner that the edges of the existing drawers simply ride on. The picture shows the right hand runner for the drawer that was removed and the left hand runner for the next drawer over, which is pulled out about 1/2 way. (The yellow vinyl tape on was an attempt to make the runner a little more slippery.) I should note that 2 of the 5 drawers have runners that are only ~3/4" - 11/16" wide, not the full 1" shown in the picture. http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0449775f.jpg The cabinets are ~24" deep, from the back of the face frame to the back wall. The back wall of the cabinets is actually the plaster wall of the house, although there is a cleat that the runners are attached to. I would like the drawers to be as deep as possible. I've seen some 22" slides, which means the drawer boxes have to be 22" long, right? The drawers will be made from either 1/2" Baltic Birch plywood or 1/2" poplar. (opinions welcome, as I'm new at this) Are there undermount drawer slides that will sit on the existing runners or do the runners have to be removed or can they be left in place and the slides installed some other way? If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Thanks for your (gentle) guidance. Like Leon, I have never used undermount slides so can offer no advice about them. However, I have a couple of comments... 1. 24" slides are readily available. KV is a good brand. 2. If for any reason you can't use undermount slides, it looks as if it would be simple to use side mounts. They need a place in the box to attach them but it shouldn't be to hard to do so using the existing drawer slides. They need 1/2" on each side +- 1/16 . I always make my face frames so there is 1/2" (or more) space between the FF edge and cabinet side; I pack out the side to that I have a surface flush with the FF edge on which to mount the slide.. The outside width of the drawers must be 1" less than the face frame opening but I sometimes make it 1/8" or so less to accomodate any irregularities that might have crept in during my sometimes less than precise construction I just shim out the slides on the drawer as needed. If your case is less than square, you could do the same thing. 3. Between the Baltic birch ply and poplar, I would use the lumber. If you prefer to use ply, plain birch ply would be cheaper than Baltic and has the advantage of coming in standard 48" x 96" sheets. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#4
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/29/2014 3:21 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Snip The outside width of the drawers must be 1" less than the face frame opening but I sometimes make it 1/8" or so less to accomodate any irregularities that might have crept in during my sometimes less than precise construction I just shim out the slides on the drawer as needed. If your case is less than square, you could do the same thing. Do you seriously make your drawers as much as 1/8" too narrow? I shoot for dead on but some times the fit is too tight and I end up shaving the side of the drawer 1/32" or so. BUT if too loose is not as much of an issue as too tight I may start shooting for 1/16" under. ;~) |
#5
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Monday, December 29, 2014 4:21:19 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
I always make my face frames so there is 1/2" (or more) space between the FF edge and cabinet side; I pack out the side to that I have a surface flush with the FF edge on which to mount the slide.. These are stick built cabinets with no "cabinet side", except at the very ends. For example, picture 4 doors that open into one large space with a cabinet side only at the 2 ends. There is nothing to mount slides to, unless I install something, which of course I could do. I guess I'll have to go look at some actual slides at the borg just to get an idea of what would be required. I probably won't but then there, but it'll give me an idea of my options. |
#6
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
On 12/29/2014 3:21 PM, dadiOH wrote: Snip The outside width of the drawers must be 1" less than the face frame opening but I sometimes make it 1/8" or so less to accomodate any irregularities that might have crept in during my sometimes less than precise construction I just shim out the slides on the drawer as needed. If your case is less than square, you could do the same thing. Do you seriously make your drawers as much as 1/8" too narrow? Yeah. If I am going to use slides; if not, 1/32 - 1/16. It is a PITA to fix a too tight drawer, easy to fix a too loose one. Especially if one has a drum sander to make shims of any and precise thicknesses as long as they are not wafer thin, ergo the 1/8 I shoot for dead on but some times the fit is too tight and I end up shaving the side of the drawer 1/32" or so. BUT if too loose is not as much of an issue as too tight I may start shooting for 1/16" under. ;~) Come to the dark side, Leon... -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#7
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
wrote in message
On Monday, December 29, 2014 4:21:19 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote: I always make my face frames so there is 1/2" (or more) space between the FF edge and cabinet side; I pack out the side to that I have a surface flush with the FF edge on which to mount the slide.. These are stick built cabinets with no "cabinet side", except at the very ends. For example, picture 4 doors that open into one large space with a cabinet side only at the 2 ends. There is nothing to mount slides to, unless I install something, which of course I could do. I couldn't tell from the photo but was thinking that the existing wood slides might serve. If not, there is plenty of room to add something for attachment of the cabinet member of the slides. I guess I'll have to go look at some actual slides at the borg just to get an idea of what would be required. I probably won't but then there, but it'll give me an idea of my options. For side mount slides, you need an area within the cabinet to which the drawer member of the slide can be attached. The face of the attachment needs to be flush with the FF edge. It can be the cabinet side or it can be something separate from the side. If separate, it needs to be thick enough to accomodate the little screws used to attach the slide; 1/2" or greater would work. It also needs to be high enough for the screws...3/4" or more generally. It can be attached in any manner you choose...horizontally or vertically. I sometimes make side by side pullouts in a space that has no center partition; to attach the inboard slides, I just screw a piece of wood to the cabinet bottom between the pullouts. That's for "home built" cabinets/drawers. Commercially, they often use a system of fore & aft steel or plastic clips that hold something to which the slide is attached. I don't use them so don't know much about them but here is one type. Youtube would be informative too, about everything. http://www.thewoodworksinc.com/cabin...ide-system.php -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#8
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 05:41:55 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
I couldn't tell from the photo but was thinking that the existing wood slides might serve. If not, there is plenty of room to add something for attachment of the cabinet member of the slides. That was my thought. I've built several cabinets with no slides. If the runners are too rough, replace them or sand them smooth. Then use beeswax on them and the bottom of the drawer sides. |
#9
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/29/2014 2:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Are there undermount drawer slides that will sit on the existing runners or do the runners have to be removed or can they be left in place and the slides installed some other way? If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Thanks for your (gentle) guidance. From the linked photo, I see no reason why you can't use a full extension, undermount drawer slide. I've used both Hettich and KV MUV's extensively, and either should work from what can be seen in your photo. Although I like them very much, I have found Hettich to be more fussy in dimensioning the drawer, as well as in installation; so have basically switched over to the KV MUV softclose undermounts for large projects. You will want to download, and study carefully, the installation guides from the retailer or manufacturer, with regard to width and drawer height, as well as the required space between the bottom edge of the drawer side, and the bottom side of the drawer bottom. Obviously, you will lose some drawer height versus side mount drawers. First and foremost is to understand clearly that drawers must be built to fairly exacting specs for this type of drawer slide, so if you are planning on using them, do NOT to fail to purchase your drawer slides FIRST, BEFORE you fabricate the drawers. Having built literally hundreds of drawers for undermount slides, I have devised a spreadsheet for dimensioning drawer parts based on the installation requirements for the KV MUV's that allows me to input cabinet rough opening (width and height) material thickness, and slide length, and it will spit out the appropriate dimensions for drawer sides, backs, fronts, and bottoms. I usually use half blind dovetail drawer fronts, so the calculator takes that into account, but that can be easily changed. Can easily email a copy to anyone who would find it useful. NOTE: Don't let the lack of cabinet "sides" in the drawer opening hold you back, I can show you a simple way around that which also insures a square installation in non-square, existing cabinets. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#10
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/29/2014 7:18 PM, Leon wrote:
Do you seriously make your drawers as much as 1/8" too narrow? When you and/or I make the cabinets, I use the recommended width. But, I most often purposely err on the narrow side when retrofitting existing cabinets, especially the built in variety with plywood face frames that are notoriously different in width dimension from top to bottom of the drawer opening. If there is any variation in the same rough opening noted when measuring the cabinets, and when using normal duty drawer slides (under the heavy duty class) which require the drawer width to be 1" less than the cabinet rough opening, I err on the narrow side by at least a 1/16". IOW, in those instances I may make the drawer 1 1/16" to 1 1/8" narrower than the opening, instead of 1". Soooo much easier to shim a drawer side onsite, than to cut one down that is too wide for the opening, especially in this "plastic/polypropolyne shim" age. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#11
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:28:45 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 12/29/2014 2:14 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Are there undermount drawer slides that will sit on the existing runners or do the runners have to be removed or can they be left in place and the slides installed some other way? If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Thanks for your (gentle) guidance. From the linked photo, I see no reason why you can't use a full extension, undermount drawer slide. I've used both Hettich and KV MUV's extensively, and either should work from what can be seen in your photo. Although I like them very much, I have found Hettich to be more fussy in dimensioning the drawer, as well as in installation; so have basically switched over to the KV MUV softclose undermounts for large projects. You will want to download, and study carefully, the installation guides from the retailer or manufacturer, with regard to width and drawer height, as well as the required space between the bottom edge of the drawer side, and the bottom side of the drawer bottom. Obviously, you will lose some drawer height versus side mount drawers. First and foremost is to understand clearly that drawers must be built to fairly exacting specs for this type of drawer slide, so if you are planning on using them, do NOT to fail to purchase your drawer slides FIRST, BEFORE you fabricate the drawers. As I think about what we have in the drawers now, I don't know that I want to lose any height. The idea of undermount slides was more for appearance, but in the end if I'm going to lose height and have to be extremely exacting in the construction, I may forgo the use of undermounts. The rest of the kitchen is, in general, not really worthy of the use of undermounts. Should I some day decide to gut the entire room, that's when I can think about getting fancy. Having built literally hundreds of drawers for undermount slides, I have devised a spreadsheet for dimensioning drawer parts based on the installation requirements for the KV MUV's that allows me to input cabinet rough opening (width and height) material thickness, and slide length, and it will spit out the appropriate dimensions for drawer sides, backs, fronts, and bottoms. I usually use half blind dovetail drawer fronts, so the calculator takes that into account, but that can be easily changed. Can easily email a copy to anyone who would find it useful. NOTE: Don't let the lack of cabinet "sides" in the drawer opening hold you back, I can show you a simple way around that which also insures a square installation in non-square, existing cabinets. I'd love to hear your suggestions on converting my existing runners into whatever it takes to use slides, and most probably side mounts. Here's the link to the picture once again. I can provide any other pictures that you might find helpful. Thanks! http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0449775f.jpg -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#12
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 12:17:07 PM UTC-5, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Tue, 30 Dec 2014 05:41:55 -0500, dadiOH wrote: I couldn't tell from the photo but was thinking that the existing wood slides might serve. If not, there is plenty of room to add something for attachment of the cabinet member of the slides. That was my thought. I've built several cabinets with no slides. If the runners are too rough, replace them or sand them smooth. Then use beeswax on them and the bottom of the drawer sides. Thanks for the suggestion, but after 35 years of wood-on-wood drawers, with no soft close and no full extension, SWMBO and I are ready for an upgrade. Some of the runners are so badly worn and grooved that they are beyond sanding. Since replacing all of the runners would be required, I'd just as soon add a piece of stock on top of what is already there and attach my slides to that. |
#13
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
snips
I guess I'll have to go look at some actual slides at the borg just to get an idea of what would be required. I probably won't buy them there, but it'll give me an idea of my options. The Lee Valley web site often provides additional info - example below - might be of some help to you ? http://www.leevalley.com/en/shopping...s.aspx?p=55602 John T. --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: --- |
#14
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/30/2014 12:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
As I think about what we have in the drawers now, I don't know that I want to lose any height. The idea of undermount slides was more for appearance, but in the end if I'm going to lose height and have to be extremely exacting in the construction, I may forgo the use of undermounts. The rest of the kitchen is, in general, not really worthy of the use of undermounts. Should I some day decide to gut the entire room, that's when I can think about getting fancy. Yep, although it can be done to good effect, installing "Tier 1" drawers, in "Tier 3" or "Tier 4" cabinets, is generally not worth the time and expense. I'd love to hear your suggestions on converting my existing runners into whatever it takes to use slides, and most probably side mounts. ~ If you're going with modern, side mounted, ball bearing drawer slides, simply purchase the "back mounting brackets" made for the particular slide. If the back of the built-in cabinet is the actual wall of the room, and covered with drywall or other soft wall covering, you will want to simply attach a wood/plywood strip along the back (screwed to stud) to screw the bacl brackets to. With many drawer slides you can also purchase face frame brackets. If the existing FF is plywood, you may want to consider the use of a these FF brackets. While most modern drawer slides have a single hole positioned to screw the front of the slide to the face frame, you may find that with older plywood face frames, the installation will be more secure using the two screw holes available on the FF brackets. ~ An alternate method that, while it takes a tiny bit of shop time in making these, the time spent is made up tenfold when installing new drawers in old face frame cabinets, particularly in built-in cabinets and when the counter top is still on: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...4 08138140050 No need to get fancy, use scraps and finish nails/staple - just make sure the three sided contraption is square by using 45 degree angle brackets made with 1/4" plywood. The sides can be made a bit shorter than the cabinet depth and shimmed to the back wall if necessary, or made short enough to attach to a plywood board nailed to the studs on a drywall wall. Key is the back board dimension. If you make it the EXACT width of your _cabinet drawer opening_ , and make sure both sides are perpendicular by using the simple corner brackets, it is pretty much guaranteed to give you a perfect installation without a lot of hassle. Basically, if the drawer works smoothly during a test mount in the shop, they will work smoothly after installation onsite. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#15
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/30/2014 11:47 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 12/29/2014 7:18 PM, Leon wrote: Do you seriously make your drawers as much as 1/8" too narrow? When you and/or I make the cabinets, I use the recommended width. But, I most often purposely err on the narrow side when retrofitting existing cabinets, especially the built in variety with plywood face frames that are notoriously different in width dimension from top to bottom of the drawer opening. If there is any variation in the same rough opening noted when measuring the cabinets, and when using normal duty drawer slides (under the heavy duty class) which require the drawer width to be 1" less than the cabinet rough opening, I err on the narrow side by at least a 1/16". IOW, in those instances I may make the drawer 1 1/16" to 1 1/8" narrower than the opening, instead of 1". Soooo much easier to shim a drawer side onsite, than to cut one down that is too wide for the opening, especially in this "plastic/polypropolyne shim" age. Glad to hear your seconding the approach. I typically install the cabinet side of the slides and the drawer side part of the slide, and then tweak the drawer fronts to just kiss the slides. It can be touchy tight if the slides are not absolutely as wide in the back as the front. I think I will shoot for 1-1/16" under next time. It seems the more precise my fit the more touchy the fit becomes. |
#16
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/30/2014 2:29 PM, Leon wrote:
I think I will shoot for 1-1/16" under next time. It seems the more precise my fit the more touchy the fit becomes. Except in really bad openings, I find 1/16" under works better than 1/8", because the manufacturer usually states a 1/16" tolerance in their specs, so many times you don't even need to shim if you're only 1/16" narrower. Still, and unless you or I made the cabinet boxes, I'm going to purposely err on the narrower side for drawer width every time. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#17
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/29/2014 3:21 PM, dadiOH wrote:
The outside width of the drawers must be 1" less than the face frame opening but I sometimes make it 1/8" or so less to accomodate any irregularities that might have crept in during my sometimes less than precise construction I just shim out the slides on the drawer as needed. If your case is less than square, you could do the same thing. +1 Undoubtedly, the voice of experience speaking. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#18
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 3:12:00 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2014 12:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: As I think about what we have in the drawers now, I don't know that I want to lose any height. The idea of undermount slides was more for appearance, but in the end if I'm going to lose height and have to be extremely exacting in the construction, I may forgo the use of undermounts. The rest of the kitchen is, in general, not really worthy of the use of undermounts. Should I some day decide to gut the entire room, that's when I can think about getting fancy. Yep, although it can be done to good effect, installing "Tier 1" drawers, in "Tier 3" or "Tier 4" cabinets, is generally not worth the time and expense. I'd love to hear your suggestions on converting my existing runners into whatever it takes to use slides, and most probably side mounts. ~ If you're going with modern, side mounted, ball bearing drawer slides, simply purchase the "back mounting brackets" made for the particular slide. If the back of the built-in cabinet is the actual wall of the room, and covered with drywall or other soft wall covering, you will want to simply attach a wood/plywood strip along the back (screwed to stud) to screw the bacl brackets to. The back wall is the room wall, but it's 3/8" plaster over 3/8" rock lath. It basically looks like this and is a pain to anchor stuff to. http://i.imgur.com/AHFB8.jpg There is already a cleat across the back wall but I'll have to see if it is positioned correctly for use with rear brackets, although I really like the 3 sided mounting system you've suggested. With many drawer slides you can also purchase face frame brackets. If the existing FF is plywood, you may want to consider the use of a these FF brackets. Existing FF is pine, I believe. In any case, it's not plywood. The house was built in 1956. While most modern drawer slides have a single hole positioned to screw the front of the slide to the face frame, you may find that with older plywood face frames, the installation will be more secure using the two screw holes available on the FF brackets. ~ An alternate method that, while it takes a tiny bit of shop time in making these, the time spent is made up tenfold when installing new drawers in old face frame cabinets, particularly in built-in cabinets and when the counter top is still on: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...4 08138140050 This I like! Easy enough to build in the shop and will probably sit nicely atop the existing structure inside the cabinets. It sounds especially nice for the smaller drawers where space is extremely limited. The single piece installation has some serious merit. No need to get fancy, use scraps and finish nails/staple - just make sure the three sided contraption is square by using 45 degree angle brackets made with 1/4" plywood. The sides can be made a bit shorter than the cabinet depth and shimmed to the back wall if necessary, or made short enough to attach to a plywood board nailed to the studs on a drywall wall. Key is the back board dimension. If you make it the EXACT width of your _cabinet drawer opening_ , and make sure both sides are perpendicular by using the simple corner brackets, it is pretty much guaranteed to give you a perfect installation without a lot of hassle. Basically, if the drawer works smoothly during a test mount in the shop, they will work smoothly after installation onsite. Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Thanks! Be on the lookout for my hinge questions. :-) |
#19
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
"Swingman" wrote in message
On 12/29/2014 3:21 PM, dadiOH wrote: The outside width of the drawers must be 1" less than the face frame opening but I sometimes make it 1/8" or so less to accomodate any irregularities that might have crept in during my sometimes less than precise construction I just shim out the slides on the drawer as needed. If your case is less than square, you could do the same thing. +1 Undoubtedly, the voice of experience speaking. Indeed. I once had to skinny down a bunch of drawers - 16 - that I made some twenty years ago for a storage table in my shop. Fortunately, appearance didn't matter so my decades old, aluminum clam shell disk sander with some #60 paper did the job with a minimum of fuss. Not all 16 needed thinning but there were enough so that I decided to err the other way in the future. I've never looked back -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
#20
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit Thanks! Por nada... Be on the lookout for my hinge questions. Will do. I deal with so many types of hinges for different spec'ed cabinets that I keep a mocked up cabinet side around to make sure they live up to their billing and so I can drill the cup holes where they work the best: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...7 17974020466 -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#21
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:21:42 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit I'm not sure what you mean by that. I was merely mentioning that I never would have thought of building a frame with slides and making sure everything fit before installing them in the cabinet. BTW...I threw together a sample frame and drawer last night using an old cheap drawer slide that I had lying around. I used the Kreg Pocket Hole jig that the kids bought me for Christmas to build the slide frame. The pocket hole construction made the frame square so there was no need for the corner braces. I only have 4 frames to build, so I may just pocket hole them all instead of cutting braces, tacking them on, etc. I'll ensure they are perfectly square when I attach them to the existing cabinet framework. I discovered that the cabinet on the far left of the counter butts up against a tall cabinet and has a side wall that is flush with the face frame. The right side is "open" like the rest of the cabinets, but the left side has a wall, so I can't use the three sided frame for that cabinet. Obviously the left hand slide will have to be mounted to that side panel and I'll need to make a support to hold the right hand slide. No biggy, just won't be a bench-built frame like the other 4. Of course, it happens to be one of the narrower cabinets, so the one that will required the most in-cabinet work is also the most cramped. Thanks! Por nada... Be on the lookout for my hinge questions. Will do. I deal with so many types of hinges for different spec'ed cabinets that I keep a mocked up cabinet side around to make sure they live up to their billing and so I can drill the cup holes where they work the best: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...7 17974020466 -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#22
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/30/2014 3:10 PM, Swingman wrote:
~ An alternate method that, while it takes a tiny bit of shop time in making these, the time spent is made up tenfold when installing new drawers in old face frame cabinets, particularly in built-in cabinets and when the counter top is still on: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...4 08138140050 Thanks. I had been wondering how I was going to install side mounts on my existing kitchen cabinet drawers. Now I know. Mike |
#23
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 9:42:55 AM UTC-5, Mike wrote:
On 12/30/2014 3:10 PM, Swingman wrote: ~ An alternate method that, while it takes a tiny bit of shop time in making these, the time spent is made up tenfold when installing new drawers in old face frame cabinets, particularly in built-in cabinets and when the counter top is still on: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...4 08138140050 Thanks. I had been wondering how I was going to install side mounts on my existing kitchen cabinet drawers. Now I know. Mike Just be aware that you need at least an inch of space for the mounts - 1/2" on each side. My current no-slide drawers basically fill the RO of the space frame, so adapting them for slides would be problematic. I'm going to lose an inch of width on each new drawer, but I'll get it all back (and more) in depth, not only in the drawer box itself but also based on the fact that I'll be using full extension slides. My new drawers will be ~22" deep, which is at least 4" deeper than my current drawers. |
#24
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 10:31:21 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My current no-slide drawers basically fill the RO of the *space* frame, RO of the *face* frame |
#25
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
RO of the *face* frame Actually, I often remove those offending parts when retrofitting with new drawers in those old style built-in cabinets. While they may be "structural" to some degree (keeping the face frames attached to the back wall), to maintain any structural integrity the offending part can often either be moved to another location that will be out of the way of the new drawer and its supports, or structural integrity can be maintained, and made even more robust, with the addition of the new, three sided "drawer frame". Being already attached to the back wall, it is easy to add increased structural rigidity to the cabinetry with a couple of finish nails through the face frame and into the two drawer frame sides ... just don't hit a hit a screw. Granted you will have to touch up the stain/paint on the exterior face frame, but that is a minor issue, easily solved. -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#26
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:21:42 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit I'm not sure what you mean by that. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#27
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:40:00 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 12/31/2014 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:21:42 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit I'm not sure what you mean by that. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink That's not what I meant! :-) I could picture what you meant when you said you "transport the drawers and mounts as one unit" but I don't now why you responded to me with that statement. Let's condense and recap: You said: "Basically, if the drawer works smoothly during a test mount in the shop, they will work smoothly after installation onsite." To which I replied: "Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it!" meaning that I never would have thought of building (and tweaking) the parts on the bench because I never would have thought to build a frame for the slides as opposed to doing everything within the cabinet itself: Add supports, add slides, hope the drawers fit, etc. Therefore when you say "Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit" I don't know what you mean in the context of what I said. I didn't say anything about transporting the units, I was talking about your excellent concept of the bench-build to ease the final installation. Obviously you must have thought I meant something else since you brought up the matter of "transport". So the question is: What did you think I meant that prompted that response? |
#28
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 11:54:36 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
On 12/31/2014 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: RO of the *face* frame Actually, I often remove those offending parts when retrofitting with new drawers in those old style built-in cabinets. I'm confused again. What parts are you talking about removing? You can't use your slide frame method on drawers that are as wide as the face frame opening, can you? Maybe I shouldn't have used "RO" in my post. I meant the actual opening of the face face where the drawer goes in. Doesn't the drawer need to be 1" narrower than that opening to use side slides? I was responding to Mike who said he was going to use your frame idea to add slides to his *existing* drawers. I was pointing out that he needed to be sure he could actually add slides to his existing drawers based on their width. In my case, I could not because the existing drawers are as wide as the FF opening and don't have the inch of clearance required to add slides. |
#29
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 2:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 11:54:36 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/31/2014 9:33 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: RO of the *face* frame Actually, I often remove those offending parts when retrofitting with new drawers in those old style built-in cabinets. I'm confused again. What parts are you talking about removing? .... I'll take a guess...see if I'm missing the boat. I'm thinking he's talking of taking out a recess in the face frame so the slide will clear. Means you have to have overlaid drawer fronts to cover the end of the slide or they'll show. I did that on a bunch of workbench drawers that I wanted as much space as possible but the support of a heavy slide but haven't ever done it in a kitchen cabinet. For the workbench I didn't care about looks; just let the slide ends show so the drawers are full inserted to face when close. That it, Swing??? Or did I misread entirely? -- |
#30
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 2:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm confused again. What parts are you talking about removing? The reference to "offending parts" meant anything (even though it might be a necessary structural part in its original state) that was required by the old drawer installation, but will now interfere with the new drawer installation. Not limited to, but similar to these old drawer runners which are both no longer needed, and which will interfere with the new installation: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink Or no longer needed partitions where new pullout shelving (on drawer slides) are being planned: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink Same he https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#31
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:21:42 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I _ALSO_ transport the drawers and mounts as one unit I'm not sure what you mean by that. I was merely mentioning that I never would have thought of building a frame with slides and making sure everything fit before installing them in the cabinet. fify Sorry, my fault ... sidetracked by a phone call and never followed through with the thought I was typing before hitting the send button. Original intention was to convey the fact that bench testing of the contraption with drawers was not the sole benefit (particularly when every drawer in the kitchen is a different size by a few 1/16ths, making it imperative to keep drawers matched with frames), along with the possibility of also using them as replacement structural components, re the other post. (Certainly don't mind clarifying things for you, but it might not always be so promptly done as during the holidays). LOL -- eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/ KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) |
#32
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 10:31 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 9:42:55 AM UTC-5, Mike wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:10 PM, Swingman wrote: ~ An alternate method that, while it takes a tiny bit of shop time in making these, the time spent is made up tenfold when installing new drawers in old face frame cabinets, particularly in built-in cabinets and when the counter top is still on: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...4 08138140050 Thanks. I had been wondering how I was going to install side mounts on my existing kitchen cabinet drawers. Now I know. Mike Just be aware that you need at least an inch of space for the mounts - 1/2" on each side. My current no-slide drawers basically fill the RO of the space frame, so adapting them for slides would be problematic. I'm going to lose an inch of width on each new drawer, but I'll get it all back (and more) in depth, not only in the drawer box itself but also based on the fact that I'll be using full extension slides. My new drawers will be ~22" deep, which is at least 4" deeper than my current drawers. I got lucky and there is 1/2 inch on either side. The current slides are the clunky things that hook to the bottom of each side of the drawer, but project fron the side. |
#33
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On 12/31/2014 2:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:40:00 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/31/2014 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:21:42 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit I'm not sure what you mean by that. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink That's not what I meant! :-) I could picture what you meant when you said you "transport the drawers and mounts as one unit" but I don't now why you responded to me with that statement. Let's condense and recap: You said: "Basically, if the drawer works smoothly during a test mount in the shop, they will work smoothly after installation onsite." To which I replied: "Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it!" meaning that I never would have thought of building (and tweaking) the parts on the bench because I never would have thought to build a frame for the slides as opposed to doing everything within the cabinet itself: Add supports, add slides, hope the drawers fit, etc. Therefore when you say "Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit" I don't know what you mean in the context of what I said. I didn't say anything about transporting the units, I was talking about your excellent concept of the bench-build to ease the final installation. Obviously you must have thought I meant something else since you brought up the matter of "transport". So the question is: What did you think I meant that prompted that response? Basically he and I both in many instances build a drawer unit that slides into place in existing cabinets. All that is needed at the job site is to simply anchor the drawer unit in to place. Absolutely no tweaking needed as that was all done when fitting the drawers to the drawer unit. Think of it as building a chest with drawers for a room in your house. Instead you mount that chest inside of an existing cabinet. |
#34
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Thursday, January 1, 2015 1:27:12 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
On 12/31/2014 2:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:40:00 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/31/2014 8:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 5:21:42 PM UTC-5, Swingman wrote: On 12/30/2014 3:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it! Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit I'm not sure what you mean by that. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...t=d irectlink That's not what I meant! :-) I could picture what you meant when you said you "transport the drawers and mounts as one unit" but I don't now why you responded to me with that statement. Let's condense and recap: You said: "Basically, if the drawer works smoothly during a test mount in the shop, they will work smoothly after installation onsite." To which I replied: "Bench testing the drawer and slides on their actual mounts...who would have thunk it!" meaning that I never would have thought of building (and tweaking) the parts on the bench because I never would have thought to build a frame for the slides as opposed to doing everything within the cabinet itself: Add supports, add slides, hope the drawers fit, etc. Therefore when you say "Actually, I transport the drawers and mounts as one unit" I don't know what you mean in the context of what I said. I didn't say anything about transporting the units, I was talking about your excellent concept of the bench-build to ease the final installation. Obviously you must have thought I meant something else since you brought up the matter of "transport". So the question is: What did you think I meant that prompted that response? Basically he and I both in many instances build a drawer unit that slides into place in existing cabinets. All that is needed at the job site is to simply anchor the drawer unit in to place. Absolutely no tweaking needed as that was all done when fitting the drawers to the drawer unit. Think of it as building a chest with drawers for a room in your house. Instead you mount that chest inside of an existing cabinet. Yes, I understood that part. My "I'm not sure what you mean by that" response was based on the fact that I hadn't said anything that warranted Swingman's "transport" comment. He has since clarified the reason for that response and we're all good. |
#35
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:14:36 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote: If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Other option is to use wood only. I just used orange oil on some old drawers and they slide almost too easy now. They were binding badly creating wood dust. Now I almost pull them all the way out when I open them. I think the wood is fir on my drawers and I don't know if this is practical advice for your wood choices. |
#36
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Undermount Drawers Slides For Stick Built Cabinets?
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 12:28:44 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:14:36 -0800 (PST) DerbyDad03 wrote: If undermounts are impractical in this situation, what are my other choices? Other option is to use wood only. I appreciate the suggestion, but I want to use full extension, soft close slides. Since my new drawers will be 5" deeper than my old ones, wood-on-wood (which is what I have now) would be cumbersome. The new drawers will be about 22" deep, which I think is a little deep to be pulling out and hanging onto while trying to get stuff from the back of the drawer. |
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