I'm pretty sure it will be, but ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/

My wife would like a long (essentially wall-to wall) shelf to put some
seldom-used but decorative serving pieces on. This should free up some
space in the cabinets too. I originally planned on a simple shelf with
wrought-iron brackets, but decided instead to make supports that could
hold coffee mugs as well. The unit would straddle a window.

The above design (or something like it a few iterations back) has passed
muster with my wife. Now I'm wondering about the "engineering". This
shelf unit would be mounted on a wall which is plaster laminated on
brick. I've drawn in some anchors in their approximate position (let's
leave aside how I would hide them for now) in the "backs" of the supports.

The backs would be inset and screwed into the top shelf and the curved
sides - probably screwed in straight through from the top (the top shelf
of the unit will be about 7' up, and thus will never be seen by anyone
likely to enter my house) and with pocket screws from the back into the
side pieces. And glue.

So I have two questions:

1. Does that sound like solid enough fastening between the "backs" (the
only part directly attached to the wall) and the rest of the unit?

2. Does the "trigonometry" work? Meaning, an 8" high "bracket" for a 12"
deep shelf? I don't want to drag the anchors out of the wall.

P.S.: The keen observer may notice that I have been drawing a great many
different things without actually getting on with building any of them.
My "shop", such as it is, is less accessible than usual the last few
weeks. Persistent snow piles on our street have made it difficult to
move a certain large four-wheeled obstacle out of the way in order to work.

On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm pretty sure it will be, but ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/

I wouldn't hesitate, as drawn and securely fastened.

I might mention to the wife, out of an abundance of precaution, to try
keep the heavier items off the middle (50lb worth of pot plants),
knowing that it is more than likely OK in any event.

The good thing: You made it. If there is a problem, you can fix it.

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On 2/17/2014 9:34 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm pretty sure it will be, but ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/


I wouldn't hesitate, as drawn and securely fastened.

I might mention to the wife, out of an abundance of precaution, to try
keep the heavier items off the middle (50lb worth of pot plants),
knowing that it is more than likely OK in any event.

The good thing: You made it. If there is a problem, you can fix it.

Forgot to mention, and this is mostly personal preference:

I would dado the shelf bottoms into the curved shelf supports; as well
as dado the curved shelf supports into the bottom of the shelf; then
apply your edging.

The first gives you a cleaner look from the sides, and together they
make for a much more rigid structure.

Rigidity throughout the components of long shelf is a good thing.


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On 2/17/2014 10:34 AM, Swingman wrote:

I might mention to the wife, out of an abundance of precaution, to try
keep the heavier items off the middle (50lb worth of pot plants),

I'd keep the pot plants in the basement. Can't trust the neighbors if
they spot them.

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


So I have two questions:

1. Does that sound like solid enough fastening between
the "backs" (the only part directly attached to the wall)
and the rest of the unit?
2. Does the "trigonometry" work? Meaning, an 8" high
"bracket" for a 12" deep shelf? I don't want to drag the
anchors out of the wall.

Yes to both but it is tailor made for a couple of French cleats.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

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On 2/17/2014 10:34 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/17/2014 9:23 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
I'm pretty sure it will be, but ...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/


I wouldn't hesitate, as drawn and securely fastened.

I might mention to the wife, out of an abundance of precaution, to try
keep the heavier items off the middle (50lb worth of pot plants),
knowing that it is more than likely OK in any event.

There won't be any plants up there, especially "pot" plants. No books
either, just empty crockery. But I hadn't really paid attention to how
long the span would be: 44". I might consider a cleat underneath the
shelf across that span (attached to the wall) so it will never sag.

The good thing: You made it. If there is a problem, you can fix it.

Exactly what I'd like to prevent.

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On 2/18/2014 8:58 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

There won't be any plants up there, especially "pot" plants. No books
either, just empty crockery. But I hadn't really paid attention to how
long the span would be: 44". I might consider a cleat underneath the
shelf across that span (attached to the wall) so it will never sag.

With that front edge on the top shelf, its thickness and the way it is
oriented, I doubt seriously that will be an issue.

--
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On 2/17/2014 10:45 AM, Swingman wrote:

I would dado the shelf bottoms into the curved shelf supports; as well
as dado the curved shelf supports into the bottom of the shelf; then
apply your edging.

I like dadoes. Beyond any structural advantage, they assure that I have
the pieces in proper alignment during the glue-up. It's pretty obvious
how to join the shelf supports to the upper shelf, but less so where the
supports meet the bottom shelf. Is this what you envision?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/

I can think of several other possibilities. I do like this one, partly
because I think I can build it. :



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On 2/18/2014 9:09 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Is this what you envision?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/


I can think of several other possibilities. I do like this one, partly
because I think I can build it. :

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a "stopped dado" in the
Curved End Panels for that bottom shelf to reside in, somewhere along
this line:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...5 76606766610

Mainly because it would give you a more finished, 'furniture like' look
on the curved end panels of the bottom shelves, and still provide
strength, especially if you pin the joints with a contrasting
wood/dowel/pin.

Either way will work, though.

Most folks with your time level invested in woodworking usually rely on
someone else's plans to make anything at all - you're well past them in
that regard.

So take it up a notch, stretch yourself a bit and tackle stopped dadoes
if you haven't already done so. Doing so will only improve your skills,
and ultimately the end product of your designs.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/18/2014 10:03 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/18/2014 8:58 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

There won't be any plants up there, especially "pot" plants. No books
either, just empty crockery. But I hadn't really paid attention to how
long the span would be: 44". I might consider a cleat underneath the
shelf across that span (attached to the wall) so it will never sag.

With that front edge on the top shelf, its thickness and the way it is
oriented, I doubt seriously that will be an issue.

Thanks.

On 2/18/2014 2:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 2/18/2014 9:09 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
Is this what you envision?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/



http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdguari...7639547178715/



I can think of several other possibilities. I do like this one, partly
because I think I can build it. :

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of a "stopped dado" in the
Curved End Panels for that bottom shelf to reside in, somewhere along
this line:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...5 76606766610

I figured that a "stopped dado" would eventually enter the discussion.

Mainly because it would give you a more finished, 'furniture like' look
on the curved end panels of the bottom shelves, and still provide
strength, especially if you pin the joints with a contrasting
wood/dowel/pin.

This project's "lesson" was supposed to be using a router and template
to cut (actually "clean up" - after jigsawing a little outside of the
line) the four curved supports. A stopped dado would mean two "lessons".



Either way will work, though.

Most folks with your time level invested in woodworking usually rely on
someone else's plans to make anything at all - you're well past them in
that regard.

I think we can chalk that up partly to arrogance and having a small
house. Most everything I have built or intend to build is meant to store
and/or display things efficiently, space-wise. The things I see in wood
magazines are nice for inspiration, but they never quite fit. Besides,
some part of me always figures I have a better idea, despite ample
evidence to the contrary.

I also get to design for what I think I can build, and sometimes, to try
a new technique.

So take it up a notch, stretch yourself a bit and tackle stopped dadoes
if you haven't already done so. Doing so will only improve your skills,
and ultimately the end product of your designs.

It's true, when all you have is a hammer ... every design looks like a
nail.

I haven't tried a stopped dado since high school. In fact, I seem to
remember making the entire dado (two, in fact) by hand. I believe we
hand-sawed the long edges, chiseled the end line and used a two-handled
router plane to plow out the waste.

If I decide to go the stopped-dado route, I guess I would simply need to
chisel the rounded corners square after routing out the dado. I'll
consider it.

"Greg Guarino" wrote in message


I can think of several other possibilities. I do like
this one, partly because I think I can build it. :


You might want to consider using a sliding dovetail to join the sides to the
top. They are easy to make and give you a mechanical join, not ever going
to come apart.

For the bottom - as Karl suggested - a stoped dado in the side would be
better. Even better IMO would be a stopped rabbet with a matching tongue at
the top edge of the bottom's sides.



--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
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