I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly 1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as well or better than the originals?

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

TIA,

-Tom

On 8/24/2013 1:35 PM, Tom Red wrote:
I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer ...discovered the there was a
gouge in all three knives-- ...

"Stuff happens..."


Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new
metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the
web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than
that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

They can be reground at least a couple of times if they're not the
flimsy replaceable type -- take actual measurements and let us know what
they are in width and thickness and if are any notches at the bottom
edge for adjusting/leveling screw as some old Rockwell/Delta machines had.


The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly
1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there
and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as
well or better than the originals?

A) Get them reground by a good shop that has the facility to do them
correctly -- they needs must be straight and ideally take the same
amount off each for balance.

Where are you located? I've at least one if not two old 6" sets that
I've no need for since don't have the 6" jointer any longer -- I'd have
to look; I think one set was resharpened and not used; the other is
probably not much better than the ones you have but I'd let 'em both go
reasonable if interested as they've just been in the cabinet in shop for
20 yr now.

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean
that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because
there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks
don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of
the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

My favorite is to simply start w/ lubricant (even water is good enough;
choose whatever you want from the ubiquitous WD-40 to anything similar
avoiding silicon-based stuff) and wet/dry 240 or so paper. Move up to
400 or so as get the surface rust off and it'll shine/feel good as the
proverbial bottom of the newborn.

--

Thanks for the quick reply. See below.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:16:32 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 8/24/2013 1:35 PM, Tom Red wrote:

I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer ...discovered the there was a

gouge in all three knives-- ...

"Stuff happens..."

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new
metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the

web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than

that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

I was about to post a reply to my own post, saying that I dialed the 800 number in the manual and found myself talking to Grainger. They showed the knives available for $40.05. With shipping and tax, that's about $52, but I figured, as long as I have them on the phone, I'll just order a set. Maybe I can have the original set ground back to usability, then I'll have spares..

I had done searches on Grainger's site, but searching for stuff on a vendor's page can be pretty frustrating. I found nothing. But they found it on the phone easily enough.


They can be reground at least a couple of times if they're not the

flimsy replaceable type -- take actual measurements and let us know what
they are in width and thickness and if are any notches at the bottom
edge for adjusting/leveling screw as some old Rockwell/Delta machines had..

I will do that, once I get them out to replace them. Explain more about these notches??

It came with a knife gauge-- a sort of beam shaped thing with a 3/8" rod connecting two pieces that straddle the drum/cutting head with a pad in the middle that is slightly lower than the rest. The blade is supposed to touch the pad. The gauge is all metal, none of this plastic junk, so it's probably accurate.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly

1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there

and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.



Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as

well or better than the originals?



A) Get them reground by a good shop that has the facility to do them
correctly -- they needs must be straight and ideally take the same
amount off each for balance.



Where are you located? I've at least one if not two old 6" sets that
I'm in southeastern Wisconsin.

I've no need for since don't have the 6" jointer any longer -- I'd have
to look; I think one set was resharpened and not used; the other is
probably not much better than the ones you have but I'd let 'em both go
reasonable if interested as they've just been in the cabinet in shop for
If I can't get the current set ground to usefulness, I'll have to take you up on that. I think the guy said he only used it a few times, so maybe the knives have never been sharpened.

20 yr now.

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean
that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because
there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks
don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of
the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

My favorite is to simply start w/ lubricant (even water is good enough;
choose whatever you want from the ubiquitous WD-40 to anything similar
avoiding silicon-based stuff) and wet/dry 240 or so paper. Move up to
400 or so as get the surface rust off and it'll shine/feel good as the
proverbial bottom of the newborn.

Great! Sounds doable. Think I need to back the paper with a block to keep it flat? Or maybe wrap some 240 w/d around a sanding sponge?

Thanks again.
--

On 8/24/2013 1:35 PM, Tom Red wrote:
I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the
cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out
how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I
discovered the there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had
hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took
it.

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new
metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see
them on the web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to
find than that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly
1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through
there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as
well or better than the originals?

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean
that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence
because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The
streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3
the length of the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?


Tom, if you don't mind "cheating" there's a fix for those nicked blades.

Loosen the mount and "nudge each one, just a scosch (in this case
that'll be about 3/32nd OR 1/8" in the direction opposite the one before
it. If you have a three blade head, that's one moved in and two moved
out (or vice versa)it just takes enough that the nicks in the blade are
not in line. The result is the other blades will take care of the wood
left high by the other.

I'd be willing to bet that if you choose NOT to "cheat", just about any
straight 6" blade (like for a Crapsman) will work fine.)

On 8/24/2013 2:35 PM, Tom Red wrote:
I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly 1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as well or better than the originals?

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

TIA,

-Tom


Congrats on the new jointer.

Those knives if there are jack screws or some other form of adjustment
should be sharpenable, and you should be able to do them yourself since
they are not very long.

just use sandpaper on a glass and start working them.make a jig to hold
the small knives, make the jig so it keeps the angle too. lookup the
internet there are plenty of jigs for this.


For cleaning up the bed, get a green scotchbrite pad put it on your
random orbital sander and start working the rust out... use wd40 or
mineral spirits to help.

once that is gone, take some 320 paper and start sanding the bed
further. if you have it you can just keep going up 400, to 600...
even by hand with a block... then wax the bed with butchers wax, let set
and use a cloth to buff it out.

--
Jeff

On 8/24/2013 3:11 PM, Tom Red wrote:
Thanks for the quick reply. See below.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:16:32 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 8/24/2013 1:35 PM, Tom Red wrote:

....

I was about to post a reply to my own post, saying that I dialed the
800 number in the manual and found myself talking to Grainger. They
showed the knives available for $40.05. With shipping and tax, that's
about $52, but I figured, as long as I have them on the phone, I'll just
order a set. Maybe I can have the original set ground back to usability,
then I'll have spares.
....

That's not too bad; the place I usually go has a set of 3 HSS for 35$ so
not terribly much different.

....

I will do that, once I get them out to replace them. Explain more
about these notches??

You'll see it when you remove them if you have them -- I doubt will; I'm
not aware of anybody other than the really old Rockwell that did on
jointer. There's a cap screw whose edge of the countersink head will
fit into the notch on each end and allows for two-way adjustment in
height. W/ the removable gibs, it's not difficult to raise one a skooch
w/ the bottom screws but if you get a little proud it's start over time
'cuz the blade will jam going back into the tighter direction into the
gib and sloped slot. These screws can pull it back down a little w/
losing where you were entirely. Handy...

You really can't take enough base metal off w/ 240 grit paper to worry
about it on the bed prep...

--

On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:11:36 -0700 (PDT), Tom Red
wrote:



I had done searches on Grainger's site, but searching for stuff on a vendor's page can be pretty frustrating. I found nothing. But they found it on the phone easily enough.


I've not bought from Grainger for a couple of years now because their
web page is crap. Very difficult to find what I need. McMaster gets
an order at least once a week. They have very good and easy to find
information.

Cleaning WD 40 and steel wool.
john

"Tom Red" wrote in message
...

I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the
cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to
move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the
there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something.
So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new metal or
buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web
after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that.
Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly 1/8"
wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it
leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.

Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as well or
better than the originals?

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean that
up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's
a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all
the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered
on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

TIA,

-Tom

On 8/25/2013 8:37 AM, jloomis wrote:
Cleaning WD 40 and steel wool.
....

Wet/dry paper works _much_ quicker...and doesn't leave all the dang
loose wool bits around, besides...

--

On 8/24/13 4:17 PM, woodchucker wrote:


Congrats on the new jointer.

Those knives if there are jack screws or some other form of adjustment
should be sharpenable, and you should be able to do them yourself since
they are not very long.

just use sandpaper on a glass and start working them.make a jig to hold
the small knives, make the jig so it keeps the angle too. lookup the
internet there are plenty of jigs for this.


There was a jig in one of the WW mags within the last year or two (FWW
maybe?). What I liked was this jig sharpened the blades in place.
Basically the jig locked into the rabbeting slot and indexed the cutter
head at the correct angle for the primary bevel. Use the jig to lock the
cutter head in place and sharpen the blade flush with the out feed
table, rotate to the next blade and repeat. The back bevel is done the
same way. What I really liked was getting all three blades perfectly
even to the out feed table and each other. This was a Jet 6"

-Bruce

Thanks for the quick reply. See below.

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 2:16:32 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 8/24/2013 1:35 PM, Tom Red wrote:

I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer ...discovered the there was a

gouge in all three knives-- ...

"Stuff happens..."

Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new
metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the

web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than

that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.

I was about to post a reply to my own post, saying that I dialed the 800 number in the manual and found myself talking to Grainger. They showed the knives available for $40.05. With shipping and tax, that's about $52, but I figured, as long as I have them on the phone, I'll just order a set. Maybe I can have the original set ground back to usability, then I'll have spares..

I had done searches on Grainger's site, but searching for stuff on a vendor's page can be pretty frustrating. I found nothing. But they found it on the phone easily enough.


They can be reground at least a couple of times if they're not the

flimsy replaceable type -- take actual measurements and let us know what
they are in width and thickness and if are any notches at the bottom
edge for adjusting/leveling screw as some old Rockwell/Delta machines had..

I will do that, once I get them out to replace them. Explain more about these notches??

It came with a knife gauge-- a sort of beam shaped thing with a 3/8" rod connecting two pieces that straddle the drum/cutting head with a pad in the middle that is slightly lower than the rest. The blade is supposed to touch the pad. The gauge is all metal, none of this plastic junk, so it's probably accurate.

The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly

1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there

and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.



Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as

well or better than the originals?



A) Get them reground by a good shop that has the facility to do them
correctly -- they needs must be straight and ideally take the same
amount off each for balance.



Where are you located? I've at least one if not two old 6" sets that
I'm in southeastern Wisconsin.

I've no need for since don't have the 6" jointer any longer -- I'd have
to look; I think one set was resharpened and not used; the other is
probably not much better than the ones you have but I'd let 'em both go
reasonable if interested as they've just been in the cabinet in shop for
If I can't get the current set ground to usefulness, I'll have to take you up on that. I think the guy said he only used it a few times, so maybe the knives have never been sharpened.

20 yr now.

Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean
that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because
there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks
don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of
the bed centered on the drum.

How does one clean something like that up?

My favorite is to simply start w/ lubricant (even water is good enough;
choose whatever you want from the ubiquitous WD-40 to anything similar
avoiding silicon-based stuff) and wet/dry 240 or so paper. Move up to
400 or so as get the surface rust off and it'll shine/feel good as the
proverbial bottom of the newborn.

Great! Sounds doable. Think I need to back the paper with a block to keep it flat? Or maybe wrap some 240 w/d around a sanding sponge?

--

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:00:53 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 13:11:36 -0700 (PDT), Tom Red







I had done searches on Grainger's site, but searching for stuff on a vendor's page can be pretty frustrating. I found nothing. But they found it on the phone easily enough.





I've not bought from Grainger for a couple of years now because their

web page is crap. Very difficult to find what I need. McMaster gets

an order at least once a week. They have very good and easy to find

information.

Yeah, McMaster Carr does a little better job on the web site. True dat. I wonder if the have blades for power tools. Never thought of that. Wouldn't have thought of Grainger if their 800- number hadn't been printed in the manual.

On 8/25/2013 4:17 PM, Tom Red wrote:
....

Great! Sounds doable. Think I need to back the paper with a block to
keep it flat? Or maybe wrap some 240 w/d around a sanding sponge?

I generally don't bother if it's just a little surface rust that won't
take much work -- if there's more as somebody else mentioned remove the
fence to get it out of the way entirely and just start w/ 100 or so and
the ROS -- it'll leave a few small scratches, but they'll work out
quickly w/ finer grits.

Unless you really hog at it, the rust is so much softer than the cast
base metal you're not going to remove enough to matter...

On setting blades/jigs...for HSS blades that are magnetic, I use a
homemade jig that is simply a couple of straight pieces of hard maple
about 6-8" long w/ three magnets attached--Radio Shack has a set of
3/4x1 or so that are ideal for the purpose. Put one on each end,
another about 2/3-rds way along between the two for the knife.

To use, raise the tables to be level and lock the cutter head at TDC;
most will have a way to do that; the Delta has a hole in the end at each
blade position and a screw hole for a #10 screw and a small locking tab
that fits on it w/ a pin that goes into the hole. Anything to hold the
position is fine lacking same.

Then, the magnet holds the knife at the same level while you lock them
down. Works like a champ...I was shown it by an old far^h^hellow back
in Lynchburg some 40+ yr ago but somebody submitted it to FWW and it was
published in their front Tips section a year or so ago...

--

Tom Red writes:
On Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:00:53 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:


Yeah, McMaster Carr does a little better job on the web site. True dat.
I wonder if the have blades for power tools. Never thought of that.

Wouldn't have thought of Grainger if their 800- number hadn't been printed in the manual.

FWIW, Dayton is Graingers 'House' brand.

"dpb" wrote:
I generally don't bother if it's just a little surface rust that
won't take much work -- if there's more as somebody else mentioned
remove the fence to get it out of the way entirely and just start w/
100 or so and the ROS -- it'll leave a few small scratches, but
they'll work out quickly w/ finer grits.

Unless you really hog at it, the rust is so much softer than the
cast base metal you're not going to remove enough to matter...
---------------------------------------
Works for me.

For $50, I'd get a new set of knives and install them using the gage.

Send the knicked knives out for a regrind and use them as a backup.

Lew

On 8/24/2013 11:35 AM, Tom Red wrote:
I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.

Well, I did find the jointer:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/DAY...-Cabinet-4TJ86

Which is a typical Chinese jointer.

New knives should not be a problem, but be aware that knives come
in more than one thickness so a micrometer is in order to get the
correct size.

I bet those folks over at Grizzly can fix you right up with a
set of knives.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-...Set-of-3/H9876

Remember to get the correct thickness...........

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"dpb" wrote:
I generally don't bother if it's just a little surface rust that
won't take much work -- if there's more as somebody else mentioned
remove the fence to get it out of the way entirely and just start w/
100 or so and the ROS -- it'll leave a few small scratches, but
they'll work out quickly w/ finer grits.

Unless you really hog at it, the rust is so much softer than the
cast base metal you're not going to remove enough to matter...
---------------------------------------
Works for me.

For $50, I'd get a new set of knives and install them using the gage.

Send the knicked knives out for a regrind and use them as a backup.

Lew


Love that description "Knicked knives".

--
 GW Ross 

 Weird enough for all practical 
 purposes. 

On Monday, August 26, 2013 3:59:15 PM UTC-5, Pat Barber wrote:
Remember to get the correct thickness...........

And the correct width? I'm not familiar with 6" jointers. Do they require 5/8" wide blades, only, or can 1" wide blades be used? * 5/8" sure doesn't seem very wide!

If only 5/8" wide blades, I think I have 2, 3 or 4 old sets of HSS 8" X 1" X 1/8" that have been sharpen so many times, they don't fit my jointer, anymore.... width is too small, now. They're probably close to 5/8" wide, I supppose.

You, or anyone else, are welcome to them, if I can find them. Slow grind a "V" groove ~2" from the end, snap off the short end, to make them 6" long. I was to try to make some sort of chisels with them, but have never gotten around to that project.

Sonny

"dpb" wrote:
I generally don't bother if it's just a little surface rust that
won't take much work -- if there's more as somebody else mentioned
remove the fence to get it out of the way entirely and just start
w/ 100 or so and the ROS -- it'll leave a few small scratches, but
they'll work out quickly w/ finer grits.

Unless you really hog at it, the rust is so much softer than the
cast base metal you're not going to remove enough to matter...
---------------------------------------

"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

Works for me.

For $50, I'd get a new set of knives and install them using the
gage.

Send the knicked knives out for a regrind and use them as a backup.
------------------------------------------------------
Update:
If the knife blades truly require grinding away a 1'4" of material to
get
rid of the nicks, then the resharpening cost may exceed the cost of
new blades.


Lew

Hey, Tom ...

I am also in SE WI and need to change knives on my Jet jointer. If you want an extra pair of hands or a kibbitzer drop me a note at lawrence.r.tarnoffATgmail.com

Larry

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:35:51 PM UTC-5, Tom Red wrote:
I bought a Dayton 6 and 1/8" Jointer (model 4TJ86 or maybe that's the cabinet-- maybe it's 4TJ98) at a rummage sale. When we figured out how to move the fence back a little further (e.g. for wider stock) I discovered the there was a gouge in all three knives-- like he had hit a nail or something. So I lowered my offer to $200 and he took it.



Now I'm not sure if I should try to have them ground down to new metal or buy new knives. I've poked around a little-- I don't see them on the web after 15 minutes looking, but they might be harder to find than that. Supposedly, Grainger has parts for these machines.



The divot in the knives is 1-1/4 inch from the motor end and nearly 1/8" wide. It looks pretty shallow, but I just ran a piece through there and it leaves a nasty hump in the workpiece.



Any ideas? Is there a standard 6-1/8" blade I can use that works as well or better than the originals?



Also the bed has rusty streaks going the long way. How best to clean that up? I'd like to put a little paste wax on the bed and fence because there's a lot of friction moving the work through there. The streaks don't go all the way from end-to-end, but maybe 1/3 to 2/3 the length of the bed centered on the drum.



How does one clean something like that up?



TIA,



-Tom