A relative has a 1950's home on pillars, peel & stick tile in a large 20'X40' kitchen/dining room. She wants to install wood flooring. I have the pine 6" T&G to give to her, so we don't have to be so conservative with the lumber supply aspect.

Her boys will be doing the work and I'll assist with tools and advise, but I'm not sure of a few things. The old tile is stuck down. Do we have to remove the old tile (too much work!)? I'm thinking no.

We think there is a moisture barrier under the 3/4" ply subfloor. This ply subfloor was laid, 30 yrs ago, over an original 3"-4" pine T&G subfloor. It won't be expensive or difficult to install another moisture barrier, so before we lay it, do we definitely need to remove the old peel & stick tile?

There are a few tiles that are loose, or have loose/lifted edges, and some tiles have chips/parts broken out. We still have a few boxes of the (original installation) tiles, so we can more easily patch these broken/missing areas, before laying the moisture barrier, rather than removing all the tiles, in order to make the floor even, with no dips or voids. Or is this patching not such a good idea? I'm thinking, this patching is a reasonable solution for eliminating the broken/missing tile voids, that would, otherwise, be under the wood flooring.

Thanks for any help.
Sonny

On 06/28/2013 07:37 AM, Sonny wrote:
A relative has a 1950's home on pillars, peel & stick tile in a large 20'X40' kitchen/dining room. She wants to install wood flooring. I have the pine 6" T&G to give to her, so we don't have to be so conservative with the lumber supply aspect.

Her boys will be doing the work and I'll assist with tools and advise, but I'm not sure of a few things. The old tile is stuck down. Do we have to remove the old tile (too much work!)? I'm thinking no.

We think there is a moisture barrier under the 3/4" ply subfloor. This ply subfloor was laid, 30 yrs ago, over an original 3"-4" pine T&G subfloor. It won't be expensive or difficult to install another moisture barrier, so before we lay it, do we definitely need to remove the old peel & stick tile?

There are a few tiles that are loose, or have loose/lifted edges, and some tiles have chips/parts broken out. We still have a few boxes of the (original installation) tiles, so we can more easily patch these broken/missing areas, before laying the moisture barrier, rather than removing all the tiles, in order to make the floor even, with no dips or voids. Or is this patching not such a good idea? I'm thinking, this patching is a reasonable solution for eliminating the broken/missing tile voids, that would, otherwise, be under the wood flooring.

Thanks for any help.
Sonny

Had a tile floor under carpeting in a '60's cabin. Toilet stuck and
caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to repair,
it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had to come in
and remove all the tile before we could continue with repairs.

Check the tile to see if it contains asbestos!

On 6/28/2013 9:37 AM, Sonny wrote:
A relative has a 1950's home on pillars, peel & stick tile in a large 20'X40' kitchen/dining room. She wants to install wood flooring. I have the pine 6" T&G to give to her, so we don't have to be so conservative with the lumber supply aspect.

Her boys will be doing the work and I'll assist with tools and advise, but I'm not sure of a few things. The old tile is stuck down. Do we have to remove the old tile (too much work!)? I'm thinking no.

We think there is a moisture barrier under the 3/4" ply subfloor. This ply subfloor was laid, 30 yrs ago, over an original 3"-4" pine T&G subfloor. It won't be expensive or difficult to install another moisture barrier, so before we lay it, do we definitely need to remove the old peel & stick tile?

There are a few tiles that are loose, or have loose/lifted edges, and some tiles have chips/parts broken out. We still have a few boxes of the (original installation) tiles, so we can more easily patch these broken/missing areas, before laying the moisture barrier, rather than removing all the tiles, in order to make the floor even, with no dips or voids. Or is this patching not such a good idea? I'm thinking, this patching is a reasonable solution for eliminating the broken/missing tile voids, that would, otherwise, be under the wood flooring.

If it was laminate flooring I would not hesitate to leave the tile and
level it with an acrylic based thinset.

With real wood flooring, it is a judgement call, realizing the you must
have something to nail to, and taking the height of the floor with
regard to baseboards, toe kicks, etc.

Were I doing it, even for myself, I would most definitely remove the
tile ... PITA though it be. You will sleep better at night knowing you
did the best you could.

A small, handheld, jackhammer can be picked up for less than $200 at
most BORG's, and can be a big help in removing the tile.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 08:07:08 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:




Had a tile floor under carpeting in a '60's cabin. Toilet stuck and
caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to repair,
it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had to come in
and remove all the tile before we could continue with repairs.

Check the tile to see if it contains asbestos!

If it does, bag it when you dispose of it. You are usually allowed to
remove tile and siding yourself, no pro needed.

There are a few tiles that are loose, or have loose/lifted edges, and some tiles have chips/parts broken out. We still have a few boxes of the (original installation) tiles, so we can more easily patch these broken/missing areas, before laying the moisture barrier, rather than removing all the tiles, in order to make the floor even, with no dips or voids. Or is this patching not such a good idea? I'm thinking, this patching is a reasonable solution for eliminating the broken/missing tile voids, that would, otherwise, be under the wood flooring.

1. Yes, totally reasonable to just lay over the existing tiles.
2. Yes, lay down a vapor barrier. They sell thick mill plastic for this purpose at the borg. It has peel and stick along one edge and you tape it off wherever else you need to so you get a good seal.
3. Patch the voids in whatever way is easiest or don't depending on how deep the voids are. If it is just 1/8" tile thickness and you are laying in 3/8" or thicker T&G I wouldn't even worry about it.
4. Shoot it down with staples in the groove using the proper floor nailer for the thickness. Small ones for 3/8 & 1/2" and the big daddy for 3/4".

I've done this and similar a few times in some of my rentals and haven't ever regretted it.

On 06/28/2013 08:43 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 08:07:08 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:




Had a tile floor under carpeting in a '60's cabin. Toilet stuck and
caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to repair,
it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had to come in
and remove all the tile before we could continue with repairs.

Check the tile to see if it contains asbestos!

If it does, bag it when you dispose of it. You are usually allowed to
remove tile and siding yourself, no pro needed.

Fine if not an insurance job.

The insurance company required the tile be removed and the pros to come
in to do it.

On 6/28/13 9:37 AM, Sonny wrote:
We think there is a moisture barrier under the 3/4" ply subfloor.
This ply subfloor was laid, 30 yrs ago, over an original 3"-4" pine
T&G subfloor. It won't be expensive or difficult to install
another moisture barrier, so before we lay it, do we definitely need
to remove the old peel & stick tile?


Karl addressed the other issues very well, so I'll just address the
moisture barrier.

You generally don't want two vapor barriers, or vapor barriers on each
side of a wall or floor. This can trap moisture that will rot things
and grow mold. Moisture will get in there... in fact, it's already in
there in the air. If you put another barrier on another side of
anything, there is no way for that moisture to dry out when it condenses
or when moisture gets back in... which it will. Moisture barriers are
like women... none are perfect. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/28/2013 11:01 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 6/28/13 9:37 AM, Sonny wrote:
We think there is a moisture barrier under the 3/4" ply subfloor.
This ply subfloor was laid, 30 yrs ago, over an original 3"-4" pine
T&G subfloor. It won't be expensive or difficult to install
another moisture barrier, so before we lay it, do we definitely need
to remove the old peel & stick tile?


Karl addressed the other issues very well, so I'll just address the
moisture barrier.

You generally don't want two vapor barriers, or vapor barriers on each
side of a wall or floor. This can trap moisture that will rot things
and grow mold. Moisture will get in there... in fact, it's already in
there in the air. If you put another barrier on another side of
anything, there is no way for that moisture to dry out when it condenses
or when moisture gets back in... which it will. Moisture barriers are
like women... none are perfect. :-)

+1


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Doug Winterburn wrote:

Had a tile floor under carpeting in a '60's cabin. Toilet stuck and
caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to
repair, it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had
to come in and remove all the tile before we could continue with
repairs.

Really? Usually the homeowner can do his own abestos removal. Surprised
you had to bring an outfit in.

--

-Mike-

You generally don't want two vapor barriers, or vapor barriers on each

side of a wall or floor. This can trap moisture that will rot things

and grow mold. Moisture will get in there... in fact, it's already in

there in the air. If you put another barrier on another side of

anything, there is no way for that moisture to dry out when it condenses

or when moisture gets back in... which it will. Moisture barriers are

like women... none are perfect. :-)


Hhhhmmmmm good thought. Hope my floors don't fall through someday. :-o

On 6/28/13 3:40 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:



You generally don't want two vapor barriers, or vapor barriers on each

side of a wall or floor. This can trap moisture that will rot things

and grow mold. Moisture will get in there... in fact, it's already in

there in the air. If you put another barrier on another side of

anything, there is no way for that moisture to dry out when it condenses

or when moisture gets back in... which it will. Moisture barriers are

like women... none are perfect. :-)


Hhhhmmmmm good thought. Hope my floors don't fall through someday. :-o


I know you're kidding, but for anyone listening in the real problem
would be mold.
That stuff can get pretty nasty especially for someone prone to allergies.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 06/28/2013 11:22 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:

caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to
repair, it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had
to come in and remove all the tile before we could continue with
repairs.

Really? Usually the homeowner can do his own abestos removal. Surprised
you had to bring an outfit in.
hey

I didn't bring in the pros, the insurance company did and they paid for
it :-) They wouldn't continue with repairs until it was cleaned up.

On 6/28/2013 5:33 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 06/28/2013 11:22 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:

caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to
repair, it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had
to come in and remove all the tile before we could continue with
repairs.

Really? Usually the homeowner can do his own abestos removal. Surprised
you had to bring an outfit in.
hey

I didn't bring in the pros, the insurance company did and they paid for
it :-) They wouldn't continue with repairs until it was cleaned up.

Smart move. Using a professional outfit leaves an excellent paper trail
regarding aspects of completeness, including covering yourself for
disclosure requirements for future sales.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 06/28/2013 04:01 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 6/28/2013 5:33 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
On 06/28/2013 11:22 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Doug Winterburn wrote:

caused water damage, and in the process of drying things out to
repair, it was determined the tile contained asbestos. The pros had
to come in and remove all the tile before we could continue with
repairs.

Really? Usually the homeowner can do his own abestos removal.
Surprised
you had to bring an outfit in.
hey

I didn't bring in the pros, the insurance company did and they paid for
it :-) They wouldn't continue with repairs until it was cleaned up.

Smart move. Using a professional outfit leaves an excellent paper trail
regarding aspects of completeness, including covering yourself for
disclosure requirements for future sales.

Hopefully the future sale will be soon. The cabin is on the waterfront
on Harstine Island, WA looking SE across Dana Passage at Mt Rainier.
It's been in the family since SWMBO's parents bought the lot in 1961,
but as they are gone and we are really tired of coming up every year
from AZ to do maintenance and heavy duty brush cutting, it's time to let
it go - especially since SWMBO and I aren't getting any younger...

Yep, good feedback all around. Thanks to all.

That doubling of the moisture barrier is something to consider, avoid. We'll cut a hole in the ply to see, for sure, what's below.

Home owners, here, are allowed to do their own work. In instances where following code is required, inspections are done, so the inspection report or other paperwork, along with any pictures taken, is enough evidence for compliance, insurance or resale considerations. For non-coded work, a good record with pictured evidence is hard to debate and is usually proof enough, especially if the insurance co. is notified and policies are adjusted to reflect the home improvement.

As for as the flooring lumber, the boards are measuring slightly less than 3/4" thick, slightly more than 5/8", after planing both sides, and about 1/4 have been planed, so for. We/I don't have one of those specific nailers, for flooring, but renting one shouldn't be too expensive and the renter should know what size nailer unit and nails are required.

Many years ago, I helped my sister remove vinyl tile from her concrete outdoor kitchen floor, to reinstall ceramic tile. We used a rented machine to remove that vinyl. A rental fee can't be much. Otherwise, I have a flat hoe for the boys to use, if we decide to remove the tiles. Quite a few tiles have loose/lifted edges and quite a few are chipped/broken, so they may pop up more easily, than I/we initially thought. I'm considering removing the tiles, after all, thanks to your better-judgement feedback.

Thanks to all, our game plan is coming together, much better.
Sonny