Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...roduction2013#

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:
Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...roduction2013#


Nice looking chair. SWMBO and I love the Mission/Arts&Crafts/Stickley
style (at least this yearg).

Please keep us in the loop as you proceed.

Is that your music stand next to the "model?" Very neat. Looks like
somebody is/knows a welder/smithie with some talent.

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:
Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...roduction2013#


Nice looking chair. SWMBO and I love the Mission/Arts&Crafts/Stickley
style (at least this yearg).

Please keep us in the loop as you proceed.

Will do ... I'm looking forward to reproducing this chair. That curved back
is a challenge.

Is that your music stand next to the "model?" Very neat. Looks like
somebody is/knows a welder/smithie with some talent.

Linda has two of those .. I think they may have been a gift from a fan
somewhere in the distant past. She and our daughter have a concert this
weekend, so brought that thing into _my_ office Sunday so I could help them
with the chords to Alison Krauss's acapella version of "Down to The River
To Pray".

Songwriter, singer, or not, want to know the chords to a song? Just ask
the closest bass player.

It will probably be in my way for months now ...

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On 2/21/13 10:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
That curved back is a challenge.

Sounds like the perfect excuse to get into steam bending. :-)


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On 2/21/2013 11:13 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
On 2/21/13 10:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
That curved back is a challenge.

Sounds like the perfect excuse to get into steam bending. :-)

The original is a factory made (rather poorly, IMO) furniture store
chair of approximately ten years of age, and the curved back legs are
most definitely cut out of a wider board.

On careful inspection, 5/4 red oak stock, 7 1/4" in width x 40" in
length, will accommodate this method for that curve as long as the grain
is carefully chosen.

Here's how that may play out:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...58668 3880274


A plus is that at least the front, and back, legs for each side of the
proposed chairs can be laminated to the required 2" width at the top,
from the curved cutoffs of that same stock/process.

Down payment in hand and finished my CutList this morning, so will be
shopping for suitable stock this afternoon and tomorrow.

I'm going to do one prototype (but useable?) leg as a router template,
in any case, so I'll have a better feel for methodology at that point.

And yes, I'm working in my office ... so I can enter everything in
Sketchup as it works out.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:58:38 AM UTC-6, wrote:
I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in person, my mind fills in ....... the well thought out details


On Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:46:13 AM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
Here's how that may play out: https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...58668 3880274

Heck, Robert. He's already got the curve of the back leg going the wrong way.... unless it's being made for someone that'll be facing to the left.

Sonny

"Swingman" wrote

And yes, I'm working in my office ... so I can enter everything in
Sketchup as it works out.

Working in your office, eh? Doesn't the missus get upset with al the noise
and sawdust? ;-)

I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in
person, my mind fills in the tight joints, the solid construction, and
the well thought out details in the projects you turn out that
pictures can't show. Sadly, (and no idea of how to fix this...) your
pictures, probably no one's, could do some of your work justice.

But the next thing that impresses me is that you take the time to
document your work, explain it, and provide drawings and sketches to
assist in understanding your designs and methods. I don't know if
very many understand much time and effort that takes, but I sure do.

So thanks for your work and thanks for sharing it. I look forward to
the build process on this newest contract.

Robert

On 2/21/2013 10:58 AM, wrote:

I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in
person, my mind fills in the tight joints, the solid construction, and
the well thought out details in the projects you turn out that
pictures can't show. Sadly, (and no idea of how to fix this...) your
pictures, probably no one's, could do some of your work justice.

But the next thing that impresses me is that you take the time to
document your work, explain it, and provide drawings and sketches to
assist in understanding your designs and methods. I don't know if
very many understand much time and effort that takes, but I sure do.

So thanks for your work and thanks for sharing it. I look forward to
the build process on this newest contract.

blush Thanks, Robert ... damn!

Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. g

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in
:

On 2/21/2013 10:58 AM, wrote:

I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in
person, my mind fills in the tight joints, the solid construction, and
the well thought out details in the projects you turn out that
pictures can't show. Sadly, (and no idea of how to fix this...) your
pictures, probably no one's, could do some of your work justice.

But the next thing that impresses me is that you take the time to
document your work, explain it, and provide drawings and sketches to
assist in understanding your designs and methods. I don't know if
very many understand much time and effort that takes, but I sure do.

So thanks for your work and thanks for sharing it. I look forward to
the build process on this newest contract.

blush Thanks, Robert ... damn!

Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. g

I miss Robatoy's comments ...

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email address is invalid

On 2/23/2013 8:39 AM, Han wrote:
Swingman wrote

Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. g

I miss Robatoy's comments ...

That makes bofus ... although we never actually met in person, I sure
enjoyed knowing Rob. Odd how the world turns sometimes ...

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 23 Feb 2013 14:39:17 GMT, Han wrote:
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. g
I miss Robatoy's comments ...

Yeah. This newsgroup is the worse for it.

On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:

Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:


https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...3?noredirect=1

Scroll on down ...

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...roduction2013#


Scroll to the end ... I'm far from being out of the woods on these
curve. Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Monday, March 4, 2013 6:40:15 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

For a long time, I've liked front porch chairs and rockers. Every opportunity I've had, I would speak to old timers about their chair making.

Long ago, one old timer told me how to easily make a double curve on the backrest support and continuous with/onto the (lower) leg, when creating/designing a chair from scratch. Maybe others had used or knew of this, but it never occured to me to try it, so I was impressed and have never forgotten. *A slap in the face of how easy and simple it is. I recall,(I thought I knew it all) my "educated" ass was taught a good lesson about the common sense of such things, that day.

It went something like: "If the upper curve is on 3', then, to make the lower curve with a sharper curve, shorten your same string with a nail, on the same sweep." I was trying to understand his French and I don't speak or understand French very well.

Anchor (focal point) your 3' string and sweep your pencil, at the other end, to make the upper curve. At the point you want to start making your lower curve, and for it to be graciously continuous with the upper curve/sweep, put a nail 6" closer to the pencil. As you make your upper sweep mark, the string hits the nail and the nail becomes the new focal point. The shorter length/radius continues the sweep, hence making the lower curve a sharper turn. There's an infinite number of different double curves to make by positioning the nail at different distances.

Visiting with old timers is, often, as much a pleasure as woodworking, itself.

And, Karl.... your chair is looking good, too!

Sonny

On 3/4/2013 8:12 PM, Sonny wrote:
On Monday, March 4, 2013 6:40:15 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

For a long time, I've liked front porch chairs and rockers. Every opportunity I've had, I would speak to old timers about their chair making.

Long ago, one old timer told me how to easily make a double curve on the backrest support and continuous with/onto the (lower) leg, when creating/designing a chair from scratch. Maybe others had used or knew of this, but it never occured to me to try it, so I was impressed and have never forgotten. *A slap in the face of how easy and simple it is. I recall,(I thought I knew it all) my "educated" ass was taught a good lesson about the common sense of such things, that day.

It went something like: "If the upper curve is on 3', then, to make the lower curve with a sharper curve, shorten your same string with a nail, on the same sweep." I was trying to understand his French and I don't speak or understand French very well.

Anchor (focal point) your 3' string and sweep your pencil, at the other end, to make the upper curve. At the point you want to start making your lower curve, and for it to be graciously continuous with the upper curve/sweep, put a nail 6" closer to the pencil. As you make your upper sweep mark, the string hits the nail and the nail becomes the new focal point. The shorter length/radius continues the sweep, hence making the lower curve a sharper turn. There's an infinite number of different double curves to make by positioning the nail at different distances.

Visiting with old timers is, often, as much a pleasure as woodworking, itself.

And, Karl.... your chair is looking good, too!

That's a neat trick, but it apparently wasn't used on the original of
these two that I am commissioned to match.

There are 4 separate curve radii on the back chair legs, two on the
front and two on the back.

Then the leg is angled back almost 3 degrees.

I just made an mdf template to match an existing leg, and used that to
make four identical to the above.

Placement of M&T joints on these curved legs for the chair side aprons
(angled downward the same three degrees) on the back legs, and for the
curved back rest spindles and angled back rest rails, is the fun, PITA
part.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:40:15 -0600, Swingman wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...roduction2013#
Scroll to the end ... I'm far from being out of the woods on these
curve. Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

Nice looking chairs, but I like the mission bar chair style better.

On 3/5/2013 1:44 AM, Dave wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:40:15 -0600, Swingman wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...roduction2013#

Scroll to the end ... I'm far from being out of the woods on these
curve. Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

Nice looking chairs, but I like the mission bar chair style better.

Not my call. These are for a client who wanted two additional chairs to
match 10 existing chairs, but wants to use these on each end of the
table, therefore wanted the front width 2" shorter, but everything else
an exact match.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...68358 2676514

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...60175 2572754


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote in
:


https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopMissionChai
rReproduction2013#5852388683582676514

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...hopMissionChai
rReproduction2013#5852390601752572754

Very nice, Karl!!!

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email address is invalid

On 3/6/2013 7:27 PM, Swingman wrote:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...68358 2676514


https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...60175 2572754



I feel like a hacker seeing your images and prep work (sketchup).
I really have to get comfortable with that program.. I can see how
useful it is on rough cutting and finish cutting.
Everything's nicely laid out..

Nice work Karl.


--
Jeff

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:27:38 -0600, Swingman wrote:


https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...68358 2676514

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...60175 2572754

I'm impressed it's got to be harder to duplicate an existing chair
then to design and build. You loose the there no such thing as an
error only a design modification factor. 8-)

Mike M

On 3/6/2013 8:59 PM, Mike M wrote:

I'm impressed it's got to be harder to duplicate an existing chair
then to design and build. You loose the there no such thing as an
error only a design modification factor.8-)

You got that right.

And it's much harder to duplicate a poorly made chair, than one that's
properly made using traditional joinery and techniques.

The chair being duplicated is a factory made "furniture store" chair,
and the "joinery" is comprised of dowels, staples and lag bolts (I'm not
kidding about the lag bolts, used on the corner braces to add support to
the back legs ... and with that half circle back leg, it might not be
all that bad of an idea).

It is apparent that the way the original chair is put together in the
factory is an expedient based on the design itself. The curves and
multiple compound angles require more precision than can be generally
done cost effectively in a lower end factory product, therefore the
choice of expedient "joinery".

In the two reproduction chairs, the client is getting a product made
with traditional methods, that faithfully implements the design in all
aspects, although in this day and age it is all about appearance, and
nothing else seems to matter.

IOW, and once again, guilty as charged ... putting $$$ (time/effort)
into a product where it can't be seen.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman wrote:
On 3/6/2013 8:59 PM, Mike M wrote:

I'm impressed it's got to be harder to duplicate an existing chair
then to design and build. You loose the there no such thing as an
error only a design modification factor.8-)

You got that right.

And it's much harder to duplicate a poorly made chair, than one that's
properly made using traditional joinery and techniques.

The chair being duplicated is a factory made "furniture store" chair, and
the "joinery" is comprised of dowels, staples and lag bolts (I'm not
kidding about the lag bolts, used on the corner braces to add support to
the back legs ... and with that half circle back leg, it might not be all
that bad of an idea).

It is apparent that the way the original chair is put together in the
factory is an expedient based on the design itself. The curves and
multiple compound angles require more precision than can be generally
done cost effectively in a lower end factory product, therefore the
choice of expedient "joinery".

In the two reproduction chairs, the client is getting a product made with
traditional methods, that faithfully implements the design in all
aspects, although in this day and age it is all about appearance, and
nothing else seems to matter.

IOW, and once again, guilty as charged ... putting $$$ (time/effort) into
a product where it can't be seen.


I know that the client is suppose to do the finishing herself, possibly,
and may be the seat. You should epoxy a plexiglas plate in the seat
position so that the joinery is visible to all, like it or not. LOL

The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning to
save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two reproductions I
made to the upholstery shop, where they were re-upholstering the other
chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop could deliver them all to
her at the same time; and to give me the possibly last opportunity to
photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa

I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting for
taste. But purple??? Yuck!!

The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color for
the seats.

On 4/5/2013 2:34 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery
shop could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me
the possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa


I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting
for taste. But purple??? Yuck!!

The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color
for the seats.



More like a deep blue on my monitor.

On 4/5/13 1:50 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa



I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting
for taste. But purple??? Yuck!!

The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color
for the seats.



More like a deep blue on my monitor.

No it's purple. I'm guessing it's going somewhere that was decorated in
the mid nineties when mauve wasn't puked over. (see: my wedding pics) :-)


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--
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On 4/5/2013 1:34 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery
shop could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me
the possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa


I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting
for taste. But purple??? Yuck!!

The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color
for the seats.

LOL ... Linda said the same thing, only she kindly qualified it with
"I'm sure it goes with the decor.".

Since I have no earthly idea what "purple" is, as opposed to "blue"
which is what I would have said if you held a gun to my head, it's all
pink to me.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/5/2013 2:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa



Nice job. It's a good thing I don't do woodworking for a living, because
the client would have to pry work like that out of my cold, dead,
splintered fingers. I might not even let people sit on them in my own
house. I'd build a glass-enclosed showcase to put them in and wouldn't
allow anyone to touch that either.

Speaking of clients, any chance yours will take issue with the more
prominent grain on the reproductions? That's got to be another tricky
aspect of being in the "making anything custom" business; even if you
make it *better* than the original, it may not be exactly how they
imagined it.

On 4/5/2013 2:13 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 2:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa




Nice job. It's a good thing I don't do woodworking for a living, because
the client would have to pry work like that out of my cold, dead,
splintered fingers. I might not even let people sit on them in my own
house. I'd build a glass-enclosed showcase to put them in and wouldn't
allow anyone to touch that either.

Speaking of clients, any chance yours will take issue with the more
prominent grain on the reproductions? That's got to be another tricky
aspect of being in the "making anything custom" business; even if you
make it *better* than the original, it may not be exactly how they
imagined it.

She has no problem with that, and the possibility was discussed upfront
.... there are nine other chairs besides the original in the photo, some
of which have a good of grain on the back rests and aprons also (I
actually got to see the others at the upholstery shop the morning and
that was one thing I took particular notice of)

All the other chairs are factory made and were bought at a furniture
store many years ago, and although they are "oak", there is hardly a
single piece of wood in the lot.

IOW, almost every component of the originals has a glue line, and many
non-matching grain patterns in the face and edges of each component,
where you can see where different boards were glued together to make up
the stock for the factory production.

A common practice with factory furniture, economizing by gluing up the
scraps from production.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 4/5/2013 12:36 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 4/5/2013 2:13 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
On 4/5/2013 2:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa





Nice job. It's a good thing I don't do woodworking for a living, because
the client would have to pry work like that out of my cold, dead,
splintered fingers. I might not even let people sit on them in my own
house. I'd build a glass-enclosed showcase to put them in and wouldn't
allow anyone to touch that either.

Speaking of clients, any chance yours will take issue with the more
prominent grain on the reproductions? That's got to be another tricky
aspect of being in the "making anything custom" business; even if you
make it *better* than the original, it may not be exactly how they
imagined it.

She has no problem with that, and the possibility was discussed upfront
... there are nine other chairs besides the original in the photo, some
of which have a good of grain on the back rests and aprons also (I
actually got to see the others at the upholstery shop the morning and
that was one thing I took particular notice of)

All the other chairs are factory made and were bought at a furniture
store many years ago, and although they are "oak", there is hardly a
single piece of wood in the lot.

IOW, almost every component of the originals has a glue line, and many
non-matching grain patterns in the face and edges of each component,
where you can see where different boards were glued together to make up
the stock for the factory production.

A common practice with factory furniture, economizing by gluing up the
scraps from production.


why didn't she just hire you to replace them all, so they'd exactly
match and be perfect from the get go? you could have done all the back
slats out of the same piece of wood, and had the grain flow from one
chair to the next?

On 4/5/2013 1:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11135...642?banner=pwa





Well the chairs look fantastic and I still believe that you nailed the
color on the wood.

Now, there must be something wrong with the color on my monitor, what
color is the upholstery? ;~)

All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30218 8892418

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...

All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30218 8892418

Ah... the home stretch! Do you do the upholstery too or farm that out?

On 3/13/2013 1:16 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
"Swingman" wrote in message
...

All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30218 8892418


Ah... the home stretch! Do you do the upholstery too or farm that out?

No, that's up to the client, as well as the staining finishing. (but I
will do the seat frames for her, which for these chairs is simply 1/2"
plywood).

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30218 8892418

Looking good there Karl.

I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye, I am
sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people would not.
Is that in any way a concern for the clients?

To be clear about this, the reason I would notice the difference is that I
always go under the furniture to see how it was put together. Between
actually building furniture and inspecting it enough, I know my way around
this topic. My wife, who is a quilter, can look at any quilt and tell you
all kinds of details that I would never guess. So, if you have special
knowledge, this kind of thing becomes easy. But most people just don't
notice the details that much.

On 3/13/2013 1:21 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30218 8892418


Looking good there Karl.

I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye,
I am sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people
would not. Is that in any way a concern for the clients?

Not sure I understand. Is what a concern?

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eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
...
On 3/13/2013 1:21 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:


"Swingman" wrote in message
...
All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...30218 8892418


Looking good there Karl.

I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye,
I am sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people
would not. Is that in any way a concern for the clients?

Not sure I understand. Is what a concern?

How well they match. Can somebody look at them and tell the difference
between the mass manufactured version and the hand made in Karl's shop
version?

I find it interesting that you are making a far superior version of the
chair. But they will end up looking alike.

On 3/13/2013 1:56 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

How well they match. Can somebody look at them and tell the difference
between the mass manufactured version and the hand made in Karl's shop
version?

Hopefully not ... a faithful reproduction with regard to look and style
was sorta the whole idea.

And, as long as the client is happy, I could care less.

I find it interesting that you are making a far superior version of the
chair. But they will end up looking alike.

Never underestimate the fact that putting time, effort, and money where
it can't be seen goes a long way to insuring that you can make a living
at what you enjoy doing.

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eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)