Mike Marlow wrote:
Len wrote:
I am spraying some new cabinets with Resisthane Plus. The sequence I
am using is:

0) sand smooth
1) spray water based dye for color
1a) warm the Resisthane and cabinets to about 80 degrees.
2) spray a sealer coat of Resisthane
3) lightly sand to get rid of any fuzz from raising grain
again
4) spray 2 coats of Resisthane.
5) sand until surface is smooth - remove 75% of "bumps".
6) rub with steel wool until smooth and no "bumps"
7) wax

It is a lot of work. I am using a 4 stage Fuji HVLP gun. The
Resisthane seems to go on wet and dries in about 30 minutes. I
re-spray after a couple of hours and am surprised that the "bumps"
appear after step 3. Do I need to thin the Resisthane? Spray more
coats before it will level? Any help would be appreciated

Can you take a pictiure of the "bumps"? It's hard to guess at what
you mean by that term since it can mean so many things. Here's a
couple of ideas to get thouhghts going... (BTW - I have no idea what
Resisthane is, or how it behaves)...

1) If it's orange peel, which is what you commonly see in car
finishes, and literally looks like the surface of an orange peel,
then that's a sign that your first coat was put on too dry. It's not
likely you will fill that kind of a surface to your liking with just
added coats, before you find yourself with too much build up. You
can shoot a couple of heavy coats on, and then knock it down with
1000 grit until it is dead flat, and then out on a good medium wet to
wet coat or two. Or, you can just knock down what you have now with
1000 grit and go back at it in the same way.
2) If the bumps are dust nibs, just knock them down dead flat with
1000 grit and then buff it back to the shine you want with rubbing
compound.
3) Make sure you follow the manufacturer's instructions for recoats.
If they tell you 10 minutes, then do that. If they tell you to scuff
the surface after 2 hours, then do that. Most importantly, follow
their instructions on thinning.

4) No need to thin for the final coats as long as it is shooting
well. Regulate your speed to get a heavier and even coat on. Watch
your pattern as it goes down. Make sure you are getting a 50%
overlap and that you are getting a good wet coat. Your should feel
like you are pulling a very thin sheet of plastic over the piece as
you spray. There is no getting around watching your spray go down. You
absolutely have to watch in order to know how fast to move your
gun.
Most people make the mistake of shooting too light of a coat and they
create things like orange peel. A good medium wet coat will cover
and lay out flat, while still being light enough so that it does not
sag or run.

Hey Len - how did you make out?

--

-Mike-

On Friday, February 1, 2013 12:30:42 PM UTC-6, Mike Marlow wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:

Len wrote:

I am spraying some new cabinets with Resisthane Plus. The sequence I

am using is:



0) sand smooth

1) spray water based dye for color

1a) warm the Resisthane and cabinets to about 80 degrees.

2) spray a sealer coat of Resisthane

3) lightly sand to get rid of any fuzz from raising grain

again

4) spray 2 coats of Resisthane.

5) sand until surface is smooth - remove 75% of "bumps".

6) rub with steel wool until smooth and no "bumps"

7) wax



It is a lot of work. I am using a 4 stage Fuji HVLP gun. The

Resisthane seems to go on wet and dries in about 30 minutes. I

re-spray after a couple of hours and am surprised that the "bumps"

appear after step 3. Do I need to thin the Resisthane? Spray more

coats before it will level? Any help would be appreciated



Can you take a pictiure of the "bumps"? It's hard to guess at what

you mean by that term since it can mean so many things. Here's a

couple of ideas to get thouhghts going... (BTW - I have no idea what

Resisthane is, or how it behaves)...



1) If it's orange peel, which is what you commonly see in car

finishes, and literally looks like the surface of an orange peel,

then that's a sign that your first coat was put on too dry. It's not

likely you will fill that kind of a surface to your liking with just

added coats, before you find yourself with too much build up. You

can shoot a couple of heavy coats on, and then knock it down with

1000 grit until it is dead flat, and then out on a good medium wet to

wet coat or two. Or, you can just knock down what you have now with

1000 grit and go back at it in the same way.

2) If the bumps are dust nibs, just knock them down dead flat with

1000 grit and then buff it back to the shine you want with rubbing

compound.

3) Make sure you follow the manufacturer's instructions for recoats.

If they tell you 10 minutes, then do that. If they tell you to scuff

the surface after 2 hours, then do that. Most importantly, follow

their instructions on thinning.



4) No need to thin for the final coats as long as it is shooting

well. Regulate your speed to get a heavier and even coat on. Watch

your pattern as it goes down. Make sure you are getting a 50%

overlap and that you are getting a good wet coat. Your should feel

like you are pulling a very thin sheet of plastic over the piece as

you spray. There is no getting around watching your spray go down. You

absolutely have to watch in order to know how fast to move your

gun.

Most people make the mistake of shooting too light of a coat and they

create things like orange peel. A good medium wet coat will cover

and lay out flat, while still being light enough so that it does not

sag or run.



Hey Len - how did you make out?



--



-Mike-



I tried your method. It certainly put down a glass finish (test board). It had to be left overnight to really dry. Unfortunately, it came out looking like plastic! I guess that is the nature of the beast.

I now know what the problem is, I will try some intermediate solution. One is to put down light coats, and put down more of them and more quickly. Sanding lightly in between every 2 coats. I was waiting about 2 hours between coats. The label says 1/2 hour is adequate. Doing three cabinets in a series will almost guarantee that I can keep busy doing a round robin sequence!

Someone suggested using a bit of water. I understand that up to 10% is ok. Another suggestion was Floetrol. I think that is for water based paint, not water based lacquer.

Len

Len wrote:

I tried your method. It certainly put down a glass finish (test
board). It had to be left overnight to really dry. Unfortunately,
it came out looking like plastic! I guess that is the nature of the
beast.

That is the nature of the product you are using. If you do not want that
type of gloss, then you should select a different product. You can still
knock it down with 1000 and then buff it back up with rubbing compound to
achieve the level of gloss that you desire.


I now know what the problem is, I will try some intermediate
solution. One is to put down light coats, and put down more of them
and more quickly.

You are treating the symptom and not the problem. The finish you have went
on as it is supposed to when properly applied. Of course, one can always
cheat things a bit to get desired results, so you could try your approach,
but you will most likely end up with a rougher finish, which is a what you
didn't want in the beginning.

Sanding lightly in between every 2 coats. I was
waiting about 2 hours between coats. The label says 1/2 hour is
adequate. Doing three cabinets in a series will almost guarantee
that I can keep busy doing a round robin sequence!


Oye! You like to do more work than I do.

Someone suggested using a bit of water. I understand that up to 10%
is ok. Another suggestion was Floetrol. I think that is for water
based paint, not water based lacquer.


As for the water - check the label. Like I said before, unless and untill
one becomes very familiar with a product, it is a risky proposition to start
screwing with things beyond what the manufacturer suggests. Thinning it is
not likely to result in a different finish though. It will affect how you
spray it, and it will affect drying times, but most likely the final finish
will be the same.

Forget the Floetrol. When properly reduced (per the manufacturer's
suggestions), and properly applied, products like Floetrol are seldom
needed. I know guys have said here that they use the stuff and have met
with success, but good technique beats additives every time.

How many coats did you put on the test piece? Did you have good coverage
after one coat? Two coats? You can often get away from that plastic look
by shooting less coats. Shoot just enough to get the desired coverage and
gloss. Try another test piece.

--

-Mike-


--

-Mike-

On Feb 2, 11:07*am, Len wrote:

I tried your method. *It certainly put down a glass finish (test board).. It had to be left overnight to really dry. *Unfortunately, it came out
looking like plastic! *I guess that is the nature of the beast.

There is a simple fix for that. Don't put on so much material. The
end results of the texture often are a result of the substrate. For
an extreme example, spraying paint on glass should leave you with a
glassy finish. If you shoot the same paint on a piece of red oak,
even properly sealed, you will have a wood grain texture.

If like most wood worked you sand the surface to 10,000 grit thinking
that is the thing to do, you will lose all texture and grain of the
wood and the surface will indeed look like someone shrink wrapped
Saran over the project.

As far as amount put down, you should be shooting about a 3 mil coat
of that stuff with each pass. That will give you an approximate dry
coat of 1 mil. With two more passes, you will wind up with a 3 mil
thick finish, which is perfect. When I clear coat cabinets, that's my
target thickness. Not so thick it looks dipped in plastic, but plenty
thick enough for good wear.

I now know what the problem is, I will try some intermediate solution.

The most important piece of advice Mike gave you was #3. Read those
product instructions carefully. And if you have a question on the
application or the results of same, contact the manufacturer.

First, practice on scrap, not your project. If you are not an
experienced finisher, you can't appreciate what a craft it can be as
well as how many things can go wrong. I have had every problem under
the sun, and even with today's finishes being as forgiving as they are
they can still be quite finicky. What works one day may not work the
best. That's why for most folks hand application is best as you can
ladle on the finish material and by sheer blunt force the coating will
do most of the work. Spraying is different. I would say for me
*personally* it took me about 5 years or work, research and
experimentation in my back yard before I would say I was a competent
spray man that was ready to sell my skills. I also burned up (as a
guess... maybe more) about a grand in materials testing guns,
thinners, finishes, tips, and mixing hardeners, extenders, retarders,
and viscosity improvers. While on my soapbox, I will say that the
reason most folks don't like finishing is the fact they don't want to
put the time in learning good finishing techniques which is a complete
skill in itself.

Finishing a jewelry box or bookcase in your workshop/garage is one
things. Finishing a set of cabinets in a 55 degree dry or 95 degree
dripping with humidity warehouse is another thing altogether. That's
where the rubber meets the road.

Anyway... I ramble.

First, knock off the sanding between coats. This create dust nibs and
can roll up tiny bits of finish that will contribute to texture
contamination. If you put down your finish and it dried out smooth,
leave it alone. This product will resolvate, which means it will burn
back into itself. I almost NEVER sand between coats. This is a more
sophisticated finish than you might think, not your Daddy's lacquer.
If there are no dust nibs, no badly raised grain, no orange peel or
other texture defects..... LEAVE IT ALONE. Apply another coat
knowing that you did good the first time. All that crap about "scuff
sanding" between coats is just that. Crap. Most of the time is is
completely unneeded, and is an artifact from generations of people
using products that required it.

Besides, lacquer is different from most other finishes. I have
successfully sprayed barrels of it and it is its own animal. This
water based stuff is a bit different from using the regular solvent
based in regards to burning back into itself. So

1) spray your finish 3 mils thick. As a tip, shoot your normal coat
onto a scrap and check for thickness. A dollar bill is about 3 mil
thick, so you can compare your coat to that
2) check the finish in 30 minutes by applying your thumb to the
surface with light pressure. If you clearly see your thumbprint, wait
another 15 minutes. You shouldn't have to go more than an hour for a
recoat, but if it is really cold or cold an humid you might go an hour
and a half
3) apply the second coat
4) see #3. If temp and humidity is stable, I wait an hour for the
second coat to cure out a bit before I apply the third coat
5) apply the last coat, close the door behind you and let it sit for
24 hours

If it was my house and I was installing the cabinets, I would let them
set for about a week to ten days before installation after finishing.
If they were installed first, then I would do the same before using
them.

Someone suggested using a bit of water. I understand that up to
10% is ok. Another suggestion was Floetrol. I think that is for water based paint, not water based lacquer.

Slap that guy that told you to contaminate your finish with Floetrol.
Slap them hard. Floetrol is technically a plasticizer, which means it
improves the viscosity of the product and retards the finish time
leaving you with more time to dawdle around. Worse, it isn't for
clear coats. Floetrol was developed for oil based applications where
site work was made impossible by (mostly) weather conditions. They
started making it for latex many years ago, but I can't for the life
of me figure out why with today's products. Floetrol will ruin your
lacquer finish material.

Although I finally sprayed enough gallons of finish to kill my Fuji
gun. I have a four stage as well. The turbine works, but too many
solvent finishes and a bit of improper technique on my part killed the
gun after about 10 years. Unless spraying oil based paint, I always
thin some unless the temps were around upper 80s and going up. Start
with 10% and mix in distilled water (not tap or filtered) with a clean
stirrer, no mechanical stirring or any kind of shaking. If you like
what you see after application, try 20% and see if you like it
better. (Remember, you are testing on scraps, right?) Measure your
components carefully, as mixing and thinning is the finicky part.
Repeatability is everything. With water based lacquer, you shouldn't
thin more than 20% unless you have personal experience with that
specific product.

Last, check your gun carefully. The aircaps on an HVLP system are the
most important part of the application assembly. They are the
components that break apart the material stream that comes out of the
gun. If you have a clogged or even partially clogged tip it will give
you spatter or orange peel. When you clean your tips and aircap, make
sure you hold the cleaned aircap up the light and verify that you can
see through all the holes that will pass light. Just one partially
blocked hole will make you pull your hair out as all the mixing and
changing of pressure, etc., won't fix your problem. Your gun should
be clean enough to perform surgery with before you store it and you
should do a quick check to make sure before you use it.

Good luck, Len. I hope you report back here and let us know how you
did with your efforts.

Robert