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#41
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/22/2012 1:22 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Richard wrote: On 11/22/2012 7:41 AM, Swingman wrote: wrote: I'm not going to label it nonsense, but I am highly dubious of glued butt joined plywood being able to withstand most any flexing or shearing force. Problem is that those expressing doubt are not speaking from any experience for the application. Try it as I stated, with biscuits (or spline or domino) and your dubiousness will evaporate, most particularly when considering the OP's very clearly stated intended use ... a guaranteed fix for that circumstance. Have simply done it too many times myself ... Agreed. Either of those increase the contact and gluing area. Edge glued plywood has minimal of both. Also, plywood is not solid (well duh!). I'm not had a lot of luck edge gluing air to air. I'd expect the seam to open up from temperature cycling. Even though the expansion rates of the plywood match, the glue doesn't. Bet you don't think you can edge glue veneer either, huh? Edge glue into one large sheet before laying it, I mean. I've never tried it, so you are probably right. |
#42
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Edge Joining Plywood
On Thursday, November 22, 2012 8:40:38 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. The answers have been all over the place. :-) The only real surprise to me was the recommendation to just glue the plywood edges to each other without any special routing. (All the more easier, I say). I try to keep things simple, but just to show *exactly* what I'm doing here, I'm replacing the top of a game cabinet like this: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...PositionII.jpg The 22-1/2" x 6" piece above the marquee is vinyl covered particle board and it slopes down at 15�: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...arqueeRoof.jpg Here's a shot of the cabinet without it: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...eRoof-less.jpg I will make the 5" wide piece I have wider to match this original 6" wide piece, which has a 15� bezel on the front and rear: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ueeRoofTop.jpg I will then glue/screw the two 3/4" blocks taken from the bottom original piece onto the ends of the new piece: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...RoofBottom.jpg Those two blocks will also be glued back to the inside of the cabinet. Thanks everyone. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. The reasons the answers were all over the place are... a. speculation from woodworkers... woodworkers are prone to overdoing things. b. many, including me, didn't read your entire post... or they jumped into the discussion without reading your OP. However, if you weed through the posts to get to the information coming from those of us who have actually done what you're trying to do, you'll see a consensus to use the KISS rule and do the simplest joint in the simplest way. After looking at you pictures, I'm puzzled why you are even attempting to extend a piece of plywood and not just cut another crap the correct size, or go to the lumber yard and get a 24x48 pre-cut piece of MDF for like 5 bucks and cut it exact. Because I have the scrap plywood. Home Depot and Lowes have run all lumber yards near me out of business. It would definitely cost me more than $5 to go pick up MDF. And I don't use MDF for anything except jigs and flat surfaces. Thanks. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#43
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Edge Joining Plywood
wrote: I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. The answers have been all over the place. :-) The only real surprise to me was the recommendation to just glue the plywood edges to each other without any special routing. (All the more easier, I say). I try to keep things simple, but just to show *exactly* what I'm doing here, I'm replacing the top of a game cabinet like this: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...PositionII.jpg The 22-1/2" x 6" piece above the marquee is vinyl covered particle board and it slopes down at 15°: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...arqueeRoof.jpg Here's a shot of the cabinet without it: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...eRoof-less.jpg I will make the 5" wide piece I have wider to match this original 6" wide piece, which has a 15° bezel on the front and rear: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ueeRoofTop.jpg I will then glue/screw the two 3/4" blocks taken from the bottom original piece onto the ends of the new piece: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...RoofBottom.jpg Those two blocks will also be glued back to the inside of the cabinet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Go down to your handy dandy Home Depot and get a couple of paint mixing sticks. Run thru table saw to form 1" wide strips (splines). Cut to length as required. Cut 1/2" deep slots in both pieces of plywood using slot cutter. Assemble splines, plywood pieces and glue with TiteBond II. Allow a couple of days to cure out. (A couple of beers aids in this part of the process.) Sand smooth and apply vinyl. Time for more beer to enjoy your accomplishments. Have fun. Lew |
#45
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/22/12 11:23 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
wrote: I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. The answers have been all over the place. :-) The only real surprise to me was the recommendation to just glue the plywood edges to each other without any special routing. (All the more easier, I say). I try to keep things simple, but just to show *exactly* what I'm doing here, I'm replacing the top of a game cabinet like this: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...PositionII.jpg The 22-1/2" x 6" piece above the marquee is vinyl covered particle board and it slopes down at 15°: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...arqueeRoof.jpg Here's a shot of the cabinet without it: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...eRoof-less.jpg I will make the 5" wide piece I have wider to match this original 6" wide piece, which has a 15° bezel on the front and rear: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ueeRoofTop.jpg I will then glue/screw the two 3/4" blocks taken from the bottom original piece onto the ends of the new piece: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...RoofBottom.jpg Those two blocks will also be glued back to the inside of the cabinet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Go down to your handy dandy Home Depot and get a couple of paint mixing sticks. Run thru table saw to form 1" wide strips (splines). Cut to length as required. Cut 1/2" deep slots in both pieces of plywood using slot cutter. Assemble splines, plywood pieces and glue with TiteBond II. Allow a couple of days to cure out. (A couple of beers aids in this part of the process.) Sand smooth and apply vinyl. Time for more beer to enjoy your accomplishments. Have fun. Lew I don't understand why you're trying to get the guy to do so much more work than is necessary... *especially* after seeing what he's actually needing to do. For Pete's sake, for the intended purpose, glue would be overkill, since he said it's being covered in vinyl AND there will be pieces screwed to it from underneath. I don't know, I think this is the perfect job for duct tape. Please don't give this guy any advise on changing a light bulb. :-p -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#46
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/22/2012 7:40 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. Arguably a naive/unreasonable expectation on Usenet. "Consensus" depends on _opinion_, and a belief that those participating have a basic _understanding_ of the issue. Something you most certainly do not want to rely/base decisions upon on Usenet. -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
#47
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Edge Joining Plywood
Don't forget dowels as an alignment option, if you don't have a biscuit
joiner. |
#48
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/22/2012 1:26 PM, dadiOH wrote:
dpb wrote: I don't recall it being in that study, but I'd expect w/ proper preparation such as sizing the end grain plies and using epoxies one could manage to increase the bond strength a fair amount but I would still doubt one could achieve the same strength as an equivalent of same thickness of solid material. I guarantee you that one can glue two pieces of ply together edge to edge with epoxy and that the ply will break before the glue joint. I'd be _real_ surprised at that indeed... W/o the continuous surface faces and with the smaller cross-section of length-grain, it makes no physical sense. Even epoxies don't do _that_ well in butt-grain applications. -- |
#49
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/23/12 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote:
On 11/22/2012 7:40 PM, -MIKE- wrote: I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. Arguably a naive/unreasonable expectation on Usenet. "Consensus" depends on _opinion_, and a belief that those participating have a basic _understanding_ of the issue. Something you most certainly do not want to rely/base decisions upon on Usenet. Misquoting me? C'mon man! I may have to run for office some day. :-p -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#50
Posted to rec.woodworking
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Edge Joining Plywood
On Friday, November 23, 2012 1:17:10 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
On 11/22/12 11:23 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote: wrote: I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. The answers have been all over the place. :-) The only real surprise to me was the recommendation to just glue the plywood edges to each other without any special routing. (All the more easier, I say). I try to keep things simple, but just to show *exactly* what I'm doing here, I'm replacing the top of a game cabinet like this: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...PositionII.jpg The 22-1/2" x 6" piece above the marquee is vinyl covered particle board and it slopes down at 15°: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...arqueeRoof.jpg Here's a shot of the cabinet without it: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...eRoof-less.jpg I will make the 5" wide piece I have wider to match this original 6" wide piece, which has a 15° bezel on the front and rear: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ueeRoofTop.jpg I will then glue/screw the two 3/4" blocks taken from the bottom original piece onto the ends of the new piece: http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...RoofBottom.jpg Those two blocks will also be glued back to the inside of the cabinet. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Go down to your handy dandy Home Depot and get a couple of paint mixing sticks. Run thru table saw to form 1" wide strips (splines). Cut to length as required. Cut 1/2" deep slots in both pieces of plywood using slot cutter. Assemble splines, plywood pieces and glue with TiteBond II. Allow a couple of days to cure out. (A couple of beers aids in this part of the process.) Sand smooth and apply vinyl. Time for more beer to enjoy your accomplishments. Have fun. Lew I don't understand why you're trying to get the guy to do so much more work than is necessary... *especially* after seeing what he's actually needing to do. For Pete's sake, for the intended purpose, glue would be overkill, since he said it's being covered in vinyl AND there will be pieces screwed to it from underneath. I don't know, I think this is the perfect job for duct tape. Please don't give this guy any advise on changing a light bulb. :-p I think that most here are used to conventional projects, so it is difficult to get out of the mid-set of having to glue something together in such a way as to be able to withstand various forces and stress. This little roof I'm re-creating is a little out of the nor, so one has to keep reminding themselves that the finished piece only has to stay at it's location and do no supporting whatsoever. Also, I never could understand the difficulty in aligning items to be glued using splines and so forth. My projects have been small enough to just put the pieces together and lay them flat on a sheet of MDF with a couple of 25lbs barbell plates laying across the seam until the glue dries. If done right the bottom always ends up flat across the seam and sanding *before* filler is not required. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#51
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Edge Joining Plywood
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#52
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Edge Joining Plywood
-MIKE- wrote:
On 11/23/12 8:18 AM, Swingman wrote: On 11/22/2012 7:40 PM, -MIKE- wrote: I certainly didn't get the consensus I was expecting. Arguably a naive/unreasonable expectation on Usenet. "Consensus" depends on _opinion_, and a belief that those participating have a basic _understanding_ of the issue. Something you most certainly do not want to rely/base decisions upon on Usenet. Misquoting me? C'mon man! I may have to run for office some day. :-p Sorry about that ... Damned software. -- www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile) |
#53
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Edge Joining Plywood
Darren,
Rather than having to buy a whole sheet of plywood just to extend a small piece an inch or so, I decided to edge join fill and sand, before painting, since it the piece will be in a non-load bearing position at the roof of a cabinet. Can I get recommendations on the best way between the following three pictured examples to go with? http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...oodworking%20P rojects/EdgeJoiningPlywood.jpg (I'm trying to keep this simple and fast). If you're only extending an inch or two in a non stress situation, I would just use glue and a simple butt joint. No need for fancy joinery. It's no different than gluing a trim strip to the front edge of a plywood shelf, and I've been doing that for years. I have done exactly what you are trying to do to fix mistakes when I accidentally cut a panel too short for a project. Except for the glue line, you would never know the panel was extended once the project is finished. For joining larger sections together I would probably use the Lap Joint in your "A" example, or do a variation of "B" with a slot cutter and a wood spline in between. Of course, I've used pocket screws to join panels when the joint wasn't visible and that worked fine also. Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm |
#54
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/24/2012 11:16 AM, HerHusband wrote:
Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm Love your website, and, even better, what you've accomplished. Impressive ... -- www.eWoodShop.com Last update: 4/15/2010 KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious) http://gplus.to/eWoodShop |
#55
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Edge Joining Plywood
Anthony Watson
Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm Love your website, and, even better, what you've accomplished. Impressive ... Thank you! |
#56
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/25/2012 11:03 AM, HerHusband wrote:
Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm Love your website, and, even better, what you've accomplished. Impressive ... Thank you! Allow me to second that. VERY nice work, Anthony! How many acres comprise your little hideaway in God's Country? Looks to be a beautiful area. |
#57
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Edge Joining Plywood
Love your website, and, even better, what you've accomplished.
Impressive ... Allow me to second that. VERY nice work, Anthony! How many acres comprise your little hideaway in God's Country? Looks to be a beautiful area. We have just under two acres in Camas, Washington. We bought the property back in 1991, and lived in a single wide mobile home until 2004. Once we finished the house, we sold the mobile and moved it off the property. We love the area but it has really grown up in the last 10 years. What was mostly beautiful forest is now littered with million dollar gated McMansions. It is still relatively peaceful, but I miss the wildlife and privacy we used to have up here. Such is progess... Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm |
#58
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Edge Joining Plywood
"HerHusband" wrote: We have just under two acres in Camas, Washington. We bought the property back in 1991, and lived in a single wide mobile home until 2004. Once we finished the house, we sold the mobile and moved it off the property. We love the area but it has really grown up in the last 10 years. What was mostly beautiful forest is now littered with million dollar gated McMansions. It is still relatively peaceful, but I miss the wildlife and privacy we used to have up here. Such is progess... ------------------------------------------------------------------ Other than having the personal satisfaction of knowing every piece that went into the construction a home that was designed and built to meet your every specification which has a value that can't be priced, a couple of questions: 1) Would you do it again? 2) If you spent the same amount of time at your profession earning an income and hiring all the subcontractors rather than do the work yourselves, would it have cost you more than doing it yourselves? Just curious. Lew Who built a boat rather than a house. |
#59
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/21/2012 5:31 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
Yes. We like to make rocket science out of this stuff... and the people selling specialty jig and bit like to, as well. :-) Speaking of which... A while back (as an experiment) I fastened two pieces of 3/4" ply (each maybe 18" x 6") edge-to-edge along the longer side with three pocket screws. I managed to get the joint lined up quite nicely and it felt pretty solid, even without glue. I don't know if I would trust such a joint for something heavy-duty, but it doesn't sound like the OP needs that. It was quick too. Official Disclaimer: The source of the above "advice" is a novice. |
#60
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 11/25/2012 12:03 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm Love your website, and, even better, what you've accomplished. Impressive ... Thank you! Yep, I hadn't been watching this thread, but when I peaked and saw the accolades, I took a look. Very nice. I'm impressed with the wife's ability to work with wood too. You two did a great job, something to be proud of. |
#61
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Edge Joining Plywood
On Monday, November 26, 2012 3:48:43 PM UTC-6, tiredofspam wrote:
Yep, I hadn't been watching this thread, but when I peaked .... Yeah, he's been holding back on us and just recently (that I recall) showed us their excellent works. He gave us a previous peek, about a week or so ago, in the Redwood Boards thread (I think, it was). Sonny |
#62
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Edge Joining Plywood
On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:00:06 +0000 (UTC), HerHusband
wrote: Love your website, and, even better, what you've accomplished. Impressive ... Allow me to second that. VERY nice work, Anthony! How many acres comprise your little hideaway in God's Country? Looks to be a beautiful area. We have just under two acres in Camas, Washington. We bought the property back in 1991, and lived in a single wide mobile home until 2004. Once we finished the house, we sold the mobile and moved it off the property. We love the area but it has really grown up in the last 10 years. What was mostly beautiful forest is now littered with million dollar gated McMansions. It is still relatively peaceful, but I miss the wildlife and privacy we used to have up here. Such is progess... You should have bought 2k acres instead. A few miles to your nearest neighbor. (Don't we all wish...) -- Good ideas alter the power balance in relationships, that is why good ideas are always initially resisted. Good ideas come with a heavy burden. Which is why so few people have them. So few people can handle it. -- Hugh Macleod |
#63
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Edge Joining Plywood
Lew,
Other than having the personal satisfaction of knowing every piece that went into the construction a home that was designed and built to meet your every specification which has a value that can't be priced, a couple of questions: 1) Would you do it again? Absolutely, without question. It was one of the best experiences of my life, and my wife and I really enjoyed working together on it. We have done several major projects since then and will probably continue to do so. Of course, I'm not as young as I used to be. It seems everything takes a little bit more effort than it did just nine years ago. The only real downside was the time investment. Recreation activities were limited, as every free moment was spent working on the house. Any extra money we had went into building supplies, so we rarely ate out or took vacations. And, I had to cut my business hours in half so I could spend most of each day building. It's a major commitment that you have to stay focused on. If you get distracted by new "toys", socializing with friends, or recreational activities, it could take you a very long time or risk never completing it. We also made the commitment not to move into the house before it was completed. Once you move in, it's far to easy to ignore the projects that still need to be completed. It's also a lot more work when you have furniture and whatnot to work around. 2) If you spent the same amount of time at your profession earning an income and hiring all the subcontractors rather than do the work yourselves, would it have cost you more than doing it yourselves? I have nothing to compare it to, but I think hiring out for the same house we have today would have cost a lot more. It cost us $60,000 to build our house, starting with a small savings, a little out-of-pocket each month, and a little on the credit card near the end. By the time we finished our credit balance was around $8000, but we were able to pay that off when when we sold our old mobile home a couple months later. One of the big advantages of building it ourselves out-of-pocket is that we had no mortgage to worry about when we were done. Even if we were to break even by hiring out, the ongoing costs of a loan would have meant a lot more expense. It takes more time, dedication, and study than most people are willing to give. In our case, it also meant one of us had to keep working a full time job. But for those who can I highly recommend it. Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm |
#64
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Edge Joining Plywood
I'm impressed with the wife's ability to work with wood too.
Yep, I am very thankful she enjoys working on DIY projects also. She actually built a hope chest for her younger sister that was a virtual copy of the one I made her when we were dating. Of course, she had the luxury of power tools to build hers. You two did a great job, something to be proud of. Unlike most couples I hear about, we work well together. In fact, we probably get along better when we're buried in a project than we do in daily life. I suppose it's a common goal for us to share. We tend to agree rather well on things like paint colors and other details, so that helps a lot too. Anthony Watson Mountain Software www.mountain-software.com/about.htm |
#65
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Edge Joining Plywood
On Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:16:55 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
Darren, Rather than having to buy a whole sheet of plywood just to extend a small piece an inch or so, I decided to edge join fill and sand, before painting, since it the piece will be in a non-load bearing position at the roof of a cabinet. Can I get recommendations on the best way between the following three pictured examples to go with? http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...oodworking%20P rojects/EdgeJoiningPlywood.jpg (I'm trying to keep this simple and fast). If you're only extending an inch or two in a non stress situation, I would just use glue and a simple butt joint. No need for fancy joinery. It's no different than gluing a trim strip to the front edge of a plywood shelf, and I've been doing that for years. I have done exactly what you are trying to do to fix mistakes when I accidentally cut a panel too short for a project. Except for the glue line, you would never know the panel was extended once the project is finished. For joining larger sections together I would probably use the Lap Joint in your "A" example, or do a variation of "B" with a slot cutter and a wood spline in between. Of course, I've used pocket screws to join panels when the joint wasn't visible and that worked fine also. Thanks. It worked out well and is now one solid piece. I spray painted one side, but think I'd sand it and prime before spray painting again. And nice work on those projects of yours. Especially your house. It certainly makes my micro project seem insignificant. :-) It's an inspiration towards doing things for oneself, which results in you getting exactly what you want and cutting out as many middle men as possible. :-) I guess taking the time to learn can save a lot of money if one is motivated. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
#66
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Edge Joining Plywood
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#67
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Edge Joining Plywood
On 12/1/12 11:33 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:16:55 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote: Darren, Rather than having to buy a whole sheet of plywood just to extend a small piece an inch or so, I decided to edge join fill and sand, before painting, since it the piece will be in a non-load bearing position at the roof of a cabinet. Can I get recommendations on the best way between the following three pictured examples to go with? http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/l...oodworking%20P rojects/EdgeJoiningPlywood.jpg (I'm trying to keep this simple and fast). If you're only extending an inch or two in a non stress situation, I would just use glue and a simple butt joint. No need for fancy joinery. It's no different than gluing a trim strip to the front edge of a plywood shelf, and I've been doing that for years. I have done exactly what you are trying to do to fix mistakes when I accidentally cut a panel too short for a project. Except for the glue line, you would never know the panel was extended once the project is finished. For joining larger sections together I would probably use the Lap Joint in your "A" example, or do a variation of "B" with a slot cutter and a wood spline in between. Of course, I've used pocket screws to join panels when the joint wasn't visible and that worked fine also. Thanks. It worked out well and is now one solid piece. I spray painted one side, but think I'd sand it and prime before spray painting again. And nice work on those projects of yours. Especially your house. It certainly makes my micro project seem insignificant. :-) It's an inspiration towards doing things for oneself, which results in you getting exactly what you want and cutting out as many middle men as possible. :-) I guess taking the time to learn can save a lot of money if one is motivated. Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. Don't think for a second that just because the project is successfully completed it puts to an end the barrage of people telling you you did it wrong and how to do it better. :-) Congrats, btw. -- -MIKE- "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life" --Elvin Jones (1927-2004) -- http://mikedrums.com ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply |
#68
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Edge Joining Plywood
On Dec 2, 7:02 am, "Mike Marlow" wrote:
wrote: It worked out well and is now one solid piece. I spray painted one side, but think I'd sand it and prime before spray painting again. Why sand it and prime it before spraying again? Did something go wrong? If it's just to get another coat on, there would be no need to prime again. No, this particular small portion wasn't primed. Just sanded and spray painted. And since the "grain" of the veneer on this part goes in two different directions, thanks to this being two different pieces joined, I can tell when looking at it. So I sanded and then I made sure to prime this time. I just have to spray paint it again. On Dec 2, 12:55*pm, -MIKE- wrote: Don't think for a second that just because the project is successfully completed it puts to an end the barrage of people telling you you did it wrong and how to do it better. * :-) I'd never think such a thing. :-) Darren Harris Staten Island, New York. |
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