I've got a table built out of pine and plywood that was used for years as
a painting table for models. The "finish" was random bits of paint on
the bare plywood. Now that I've replaced the table with a bigger one,
I'd like to see about renewing the surface somehow. The paint was
removed using a sander, but there's still paint in the recesses that
isn't going to come out very easily.

I was thinking about resurfacing the top with thick veneer cut on the
band saw. My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut
to 3/16" then plane to 1/8". The material will probably be pine to match
the rest of the table.

I've got plenty of Titebond II that I can use for this, but if it's not
going to work all that well I could try something else like contact
cement or maybe flooring glue.

The easy way out is just to paint the table, but I'd like to experiment
with bandsawn veneers. The table was always intended to be a utility
table, so I'm free to experiment.

Any advice or suggestions?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 9/7/12 9:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
I've got a table built out of pine and plywood that was used for years as
a painting table for models. The "finish" was random bits of paint on
the bare plywood. Now that I've replaced the table with a bigger one,
I'd like to see about renewing the surface somehow. The paint was
removed using a sander, but there's still paint in the recesses that
isn't going to come out very easily.

I was thinking about resurfacing the top with thick veneer cut on the
band saw. My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut
to 3/16" then plane to 1/8". The material will probably be pine to match
the rest of the table.

I've got plenty of Titebond II that I can use for this, but if it's not
going to work all that well I could try something else like contact
cement or maybe flooring glue.

The easy way out is just to paint the table, but I'd like to experiment
with bandsawn veneers. The table was always intended to be a utility
table, so I'm free to experiment.

Any advice or suggestions?

Puckdropper


Contact cement, just like with a Formica laminates.
There are probably a thousand tutorials on the web for how to do it.
Cut the veneer bigger than the top.
Glue both surfaces, wait 5 minutes.
Spread out sticks on the top, put veneer on sticks.
Pull sticks out one at a time.
Use a roller to press surfaces together.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/7/2012 9:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:

I've got plenty of Titebond II that I can use for this, but if it's not
going to work all that well I could try something else like contact
cement or maybe flooring glue.

Any advice or suggestions?

Plastic resin glue (ureaformaldehyde glue) is your best bet for gluing
laminates. It has a relatively long open time and does not creep like
other glues.

I've used it for curved lamination's to good effect, just be sure that
you make sure the product is fresh as it only has about a year shelf
life and many places who carry it don't turn their inventory that often.

Just for the record, it is also David J Marks goto glue for laminating:

http://www.djmarks.com/pdf/ureaglue.pdf

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote in
:

Plastic resin glue (ureaformaldehyde glue) is your best bet for gluing
laminates. It has a relatively long open time and does not creep like
other glues.

I've used it for curved lamination's to good effect, just be sure that
you make sure the product is fresh as it only has about a year shelf
life and many places who carry it don't turn their inventory that
often.

Just for the record, it is also David J Marks goto glue for
laminating:

http://www.djmarks.com/pdf/ureaglue.pdf


I'll have to give it a try. My local Ace is supposed to carry it, and
if they've got 1 lb containers I'll have more than enough.

The instructions recommend clamping for several hours. Since I'm doing
a 2'x4' table top, do I need to watch out for squeeze out or creep if I
use cauls?

Puckdropper

--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 9/8/2012 12:40 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
Swingman wrote in
:

Plastic resin glue (ureaformaldehyde glue) is your best bet for gluing
laminates. It has a relatively long open time and does not creep like
other glues.

I've used it for curved lamination's to good effect, just be sure that
you make sure the product is fresh as it only has about a year shelf
life and many places who carry it don't turn their inventory that
often.

Just for the record, it is also David J Marks goto glue for
laminating:

http://www.djmarks.com/pdf/ureaglue.pdf


I'll have to give it a try. My local Ace is supposed to carry it, and
if they've got 1 lb containers I'll have more than enough.

The instructions recommend clamping for several hours. Since I'm doing
a 2'x4' table top, do I need to watch out for squeeze out or creep if I
use cauls?

Both will be much less of a problem than with other glues.

I've done some fairly large glue-ups with the Weld Wood brand from Ace
Hardware down through the years, here's the most recent about a year ago:

https://picasaweb.google.com/1113554...89302316552 2

For an area as big as you're contemplating, I would use a large
paintbrush to spread the UF glue once mixed. There should be a code on
the can that includes the date, pay particular attention to that ... and
call the company if in doubt.

The powder is hygroscopic, thus over time, water will be absorbed by the
powder, even in a factory sealed can.

Any powder thus affected will have, instead of the desired consistency
of a smooth syrup when mixed with water, tiny beads of powder that don't
mix well, and therefore give it a bit of grainy texture.

That does not mean that you will not still get a good bond, but it does
make it a bit harder to spread, and you might only get a percentage
(although a large one) of the strength of the fresh product.

Best to insure freshness before you buy, although Ace Hardware will
refund a bad product, it won't pay for a less desirable than expected
end product.

Unibond 800 is also an excellent UF plastic resin product, and is mixed
with a catalyst, which can adjust the color if you need that ability,
although I find the Weld Wood product easier to use, being simply mixed
with water.

All in all, and having used both products in exactly the situation you
describe, UF glues is the product I would reach for without question for
laminating your table top with wood.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/8/12 8:26 AM, Swingman wrote:
All in all, and having used both products in exactly the situation you
describe, UF glues is the product I would reach for without question for
laminating your table top with wood.

Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't
mind some further explanation.
Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does contact
cement not work well with wood? Also, what exactly is creep and when
does it happen, while drying or after? Is it solved by over-sizing the
veneer and trimming after dried?


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/7/2012 9:34 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
....

I was thinking about resurfacing the top with thick veneer cut on the
band saw. My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut
to 3/16" then plane to 1/8"....

Use a false table...

On 9/8/2012 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't
mind some further explanation.

Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does contact
cement not work well with wood?

In _my_ experience, for veneering/laminating _wood to wood_, as the OP
is contemplating, it is better to use a glue that is not flexible and
doesn't respond to heat after the fact. Contact cement remains
relatively flexible after drying, and becomes more so when exposed to
heat, even if it just sunlight through a window.

That's not to say that contact cement can't be used successfully in
veneering/laminating, particularly when the substrate is something with
more dimensional stability, like MDF.

Wood to wood, I prefer not to take the chance. This is simply my
experience, YYMV.

Also, what exactly is creep and when
does it happen, while drying or after? Is it solved by over-sizing the
veneer and trimming after dried?

Read the info in the link to David J.Marks site in my first post. There
is a good explanation there ... much better than I can write.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/8/2012 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't
mind some further explanation.

Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does contact
cement not work well with wood? Also, what exactly is creep and when
does it happen, while drying or after? Is it solved by over-sizing the
veneer and trimming after dried?

Here ya go, Mike ... did quick some research for you, this says it
better than I can:

http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5...t-1/td-p/46389

http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5...rt-2/m-p/48281

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On 9/8/12 1:12 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/8/2012 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't
mind some further explanation.

Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does contact
cement not work well with wood? Also, what exactly is creep and when
does it happen, while drying or after? Is it solved by over-sizing the
veneer and trimming after dried?

Here ya go, Mike ... did quick some research for you, this says it
better than I can:

http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5...t-1/td-p/46389


http://community.woodmagazine.com/t5...rt-2/m-p/48281




All great info, thanks!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 9/8/2012 1:02 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/8/2012 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't
mind some further explanation.

Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does contact
cement not work well with wood?

In _my_ experience, for veneering/laminating _wood to wood_, as the OP
is contemplating, it is better to use a glue that is not flexible and
doesn't respond to heat after the fact. Contact cement remains
relatively flexible after drying, and becomes more so when exposed to
heat, even if it just sunlight through a window.

That's not to say that contact cement can't be used successfully in
veneering/laminating, particularly when the substrate is something with
more dimensional stability, like MDF.

I have found that with contact cement and even with a stable substrate
and plastic laminate that heat will weaken the bond so much that the
adhesion will fail. For example plastic laminate back splash behind a
gas cook top. Also the reason my sister has tile behind her gas cook
top now. ;~(

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

On 9/8/2012 1:02 PM, Swingman wrote:
On 9/8/2012 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

Having not worked with either enough to know the reasons, I wouldn't
mind some further explanation.

Is it "creep" that is the problem with contact cement or does
contact cement not work well with wood?

In _my_ experience, for veneering/laminating _wood to wood_, as the
OP is contemplating, it is better to use a glue that is not flexible
and doesn't respond to heat after the fact. Contact cement remains
relatively flexible after drying, and becomes more so when exposed to
heat, even if it just sunlight through a window.

That's not to say that contact cement can't be used successfully in
veneering/laminating, particularly when the substrate is something
with more dimensional stability, like MDF.

I have found that with contact cement and even with a stable substrate
and plastic laminate that heat will weaken the bond so much that the
adhesion will fail. For example plastic laminate back splash behind a
gas cook top. Also the reason my sister has tile behind her gas cook
top now. ;~(


Sure would be nice if contact cement would work, it is available just
about everywhere. I checked 3 places (2 Aces, and a Menards that was
nearby) for the UF glue, and came up empty. Time to order it off the
Internet.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 12:48:59 -0500, dpb wrote:

My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut
to 3/16" then plane to 1/8"....

Use a false table...

Trying to plane to less than 1/8" can result in the wood breaking under
the pressure from the planer knives. It'd be safer to use a thickness
sander.

As far as gluing, I've had good luck with regular veneer using dried
white glue (diluted 50-50) and a hot iron, but I don't know if enough
heat would get through thicker veneer to reactivate the glue.

--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.

On 9/8/2012 6:59 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2012 12:48:59 -0500, dpb wrote:

My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut
to 3/16" then plane to 1/8"....

Use a false table...

Trying to plane to less than 1/8" can result in the wood breaking under
the pressure from the planer knives. It'd be safer to use a thickness
sander.
....

a) Perhaps but it's never happened to me...mostly it's to get the
additional height when approaching the limit of the planer adjustment.
I'd not try it w/ something terribly brittle but pine; no problems...

b) If one has one, yes...

--

On Friday, September 7, 2012 7:34:49 PM UTC-7, Puckdropper wrote:
I've got a table built out of pine and plywood that was used for years as a painting table for models. The "finish" was random bits of paint on the bare plywood. Now that I've replaced the table with a bigger one, I'd like to see about renewing the surface somehow. The paint was removed using a sander, but there's still paint in the recesses that isn't going to come out very easily. I was thinking about resurfacing the top with thick veneer cut on the band saw. My planer only goes down to 1/8", so I'll probably aim to cut to 3/16" then plane to 1/8". The material will probably be pine to match the rest of the table. I've got plenty of Titebond II that I can use for this, but if it's not going to work all that well I could try something else like contact cement or maybe flooring glue. The easy way out is just to paint the table, but I'd like to experiment with bandsawn veneers. The table was always intended to be a utility table, so I'm free to experiment. Any advice or suggestions? Puckdropper -- Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Well, in a year that veneered top will need replacing also. I would buy some 1/2" mdf drop it down and sink some screws in countersinked holes on a 2 foot grid. Rinse and repeat whenever the top gets too scared, etc. I have several tables like this, even my dead flat torsion box assembly table. It has a hardwood applied apron that stands that extra 1/2 high and I pry out and replace the old top every 6 months or so.