A couple of weeks ago I had time to kill between appointments so I
visited HF for the first time. It was better than expected, with some
cheap crap and some fairly good items at good prices. I had a 20%
coupon so I bought the variable speed multi- tool for $31 and change.
A few days later, I found myself in need of a tool of that sort. It
did the job and did it well. I had to cut the caulk where it was
between siding trim and the first deck board I was removing. I'm
replacing my 25 year old PT deck boards with tiger wood. (Goncalo
Alves)

It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.

I don't see them replacing a really good shop like Coastal Tool, but
they do serve a purpose.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I had time to kill between appointments so I
visited HF for the first time. It was better than expected, with some
cheap crap and some fairly good items at good prices. I had a 20%
coupon so I bought the variable speed multi- tool for $31 and change.
A few days later, I found myself in need of a tool of that sort. It
did the job and did it well. I had to cut the caulk where it was
between siding trim and the first deck board I was removing. I'm
replacing my 25 year old PT deck boards with tiger wood. (Goncalo
Alves)

It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.


What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread? Is your opinion based solely on price?
Reputation?

Wait until you've had to undercut a door jamb or remove a piece of molding
that a saw can't reach or any of dozen other jobs for which the tool itself
is perfect. Then consider the price as being the reason you HAVE the tool.

It all works out.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:47:11 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:




It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.


What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread? Is your opinion based solely on price?
Reputation?

I said it "may" not. I did not say "does" not.

My skepticism is based on use. It had a lot of vibration in the hand.
Of course, I expected some, but this was more than expected. The
cutting tool loosened up for times during the job. I thought the
force needed was high.

Never having used the high priced spread, I can't say for sure if it
is better or worse. It easily met my expectations for a $31 tool and
got the job done. If I paid $119 or more, I'd have been disappointed
in its performance. At the price, it is a good value.

On 6/23/2012 6:47 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I had time to kill between appointments so I
visited HF for the first time. It was better than expected, with some
cheap crap and some fairly good items at good prices. I had a 20%
coupon so I bought the variable speed multi- tool for $31 and change.
A few days later, I found myself in need of a tool of that sort. It
did the job and did it well. I had to cut the caulk where it was
between siding trim and the first deck board I was removing. I'm
replacing my 25 year old PT deck boards with tiger wood. (Goncalo
Alves)

It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.


What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread? Is your opinion based solely on price?
Reputation?


In previous posts it has been mentioned that the HF multi tool will
loose it's grip of the cutter and vibrates such that your hands may
tingle afterward. Not every one experiences that so, are you feeling
lucky today? :~) The Fein does not have that problem and or present a
hit or miss performance experience.

HF is what it is. If it has something you need to use once or twice or
on occasion it may be just right for you. If not you can do better.

On 6/23/2012 8:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:47:11 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:




It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.


What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread? Is your opinion based solely on price?
Reputation?

I said it "may" not. I did not say "does" not.

My skepticism is based on use. It had a lot of vibration in the hand.
Of course, I expected some, but this was more than expected. The
cutting tool loosened up for times during the job. I thought the
force needed was high.

Never having used the high priced spread, I can't say for sure if it
is better or worse. It easily met my expectations for a $31 tool and
got the job done. If I paid $119 or more, I'd have been disappointed
in its performance. At the price, it is a good value.

If you paid $119 for it you would have an expensive tool that you use
once per year taking up space in your toolbox. The HF tool will do the
infrequent job well, and you will have money for the money to but the
expensive tools that you use daily. I have been very satisfied with the
stuff that I have bought at HF.

On Jun 23, 7:54*am, Keith Nuttle wrote:


If you paid $119 for it you would have an expensive tool that you use
once per year taking up space in your toolbox. *The HF tool will do the
infrequent job well, and you will have money for the money to but the
expensive tools that you use daily. *I have been very satisfied with the
stuff that I have bought at HF.

Right. Like any other story you have to pick and choose. I have
their upper end mult-tool. Once you realize you have to crank the
blade nut down good and tight it does most of its intended work (and
some other stuff) well.

I have posted here about my HF mortiser a few times. It was a guilty,
low cost splurge at $99 about ten years ago. Guilty because I left
the store thinking I hand just thrown the money away on a tool I would
be unhappy with. The material hold-down hardware sucks. The surface
of the bed is cheap vinyl covered particle board. It has good power,
The plunge mechanism is good but the handle is cheezy. The four bits
that came with it are actually quite good. At the end of the day, it
cuts square holes and if you take care with rigging your own hold down
it works quite well. If I had paid $350 - $400 for it I would be very
unhappy. But at $99 I probably got a little more than I paid for.

HF is a great source for expendable gloves, wire ties, etc.. I have
a couple of their cheap nail guns and they are fine. In fact my 18ga
gets about as much use as its Porter Cable companion.

I wouldn't touch any of their heavy woodworking or metal working tools
with a 10' pole.

RonB

On Jun 23, 8:54*am, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 6/23/2012 8:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:







On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:47:11 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. *I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.

What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread? Is your opinion based solely on price?
Reputation?

I said it "may" not. *I did not say "does" not.

My skepticism is based on use. *It had a lot of vibration in the hand..
Of course, I expected some, but this was more than expected. *The
cutting tool loosened up for times during the job. *I thought the
force needed was high.

Never having used the high priced spread, I can't say for sure if it
is better or worse. *It easily met my expectations for a $31 tool and
got the job done. *If I paid $119 or more, I'd have been disappointed
in its performance. *At the price, it is a good value.

If you paid $119 for it you would have an expensive tool that you use
once per year taking up space in your toolbox. *The HF tool will do the
infrequent job well, and you will have money for the money to but the
expensive tools that you use daily. *I have been very satisfied with the
stuff that I have bought at HF.

It is all about pre-selection. If it feels and looks like crap....
don't buy it!

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:55 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:


In previous posts it has been mentioned that the HF multi tool will
loose it's grip of the cutter and vibrates such that your hands may
tingle afterward. Not every one experiences that so, are you feeling
lucky today? :~) The Fein does not have that problem and or present a
hit or miss performance experience.

HF is what it is. If it has something you need to use once or twice or
on occasion it may be just right for you. If not you can do better.


This is the second time in my life that I could really use such a
tool. The first time was a half dozen years ago and I used a hand
saw.

If I used it every day, I'd not hesitate to buy the Fein. For the
half hour of use I cage it, it was a good value for the cheap-o. Now
that I have it, if I find more uses, I'll upgrade.

On 6/23/2012 8:50 AM, Robatoy wrote:
On Jun 23, 8:54 am, Keith wrote:
On 6/23/2012 8:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:







On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:47:11 -0500,
wrote:

It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.

What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread? Is your opinion based solely on price?
Reputation?

I said it "may" not. I did not say "does" not.

My skepticism is based on use. It had a lot of vibration in the hand.
Of course, I expected some, but this was more than expected. The
cutting tool loosened up for times during the job. I thought the
force needed was high.

Never having used the high priced spread, I can't say for sure if it
is better or worse. It easily met my expectations for a $31 tool and
got the job done. If I paid $119 or more, I'd have been disappointed
in its performance. At the price, it is a good value.

If you paid $119 for it you would have an expensive tool that you use
once per year taking up space in your toolbox. The HF tool will do the
infrequent job well, and you will have money for the money to but the
expensive tools that you use daily. I have been very satisfied with the
stuff that I have bought at HF.

It is all about pre-selection. If it feels and looks like crap....
don't buy it!

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

On 6/23/2012 9:00 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:55 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:


In previous posts it has been mentioned that the HF multi tool will
loose it's grip of the cutter and vibrates such that your hands may
tingle afterward. Not every one experiences that so, are you feeling
lucky today? :~) The Fein does not have that problem and or present a
hit or miss performance experience.

HF is what it is. If it has something you need to use once or twice or
on occasion it may be just right for you. If not you can do better.


This is the second time in my life that I could really use such a
tool. The first time was a half dozen years ago and I used a hand
saw.

If I used it every day, I'd not hesitate to buy the Fein. For the
half hour of use I cage it, it was a good value for the cheap-o. Now
that I have it, if I find more uses, I'll upgrade.

But you know. ;~) now that you have it you will use it more.

When the Domino first came out I thought I would probably use it as much
ad my previous biscuit cutters. In 20 years I probably used 2000
biscuits. In the last 5 years I have probably used, well I am on my
second replacement case of 5 mm Domino's. IIRC the initial assortment
set of Domino tenons included 600 5mm dominoes. The replacement cases
have 1800 dominoes. Not to mention the replacement case of 6mm tenons.

So I have probably used 4,000 dominoes in all sizes and double that
number for the mortises that were cut to receive them. ;~)

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:23:30 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
So I have probably used 4,000 dominoes in all sizes and double that
number for the mortises that were cut to receive them. ;~)

Yabbut, the Domino is fun to use, maybe not so much after 4000 of the
little buggers, but fun anyway.

I can remember the first time I used my new biscuit joiner. There was
never any fun there, not even in the beginning.

On 6/23/2012 9:30 AM, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 09:23:30 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
So I have probably used 4,000 dominoes in all sizes and double that
number for the mortises that were cut to receive them. ;~)

Yabbut, the Domino is fun to use, maybe not so much after 4000 of the
little buggers, but fun anyway.

I can remember the first time I used my new biscuit joiner. There was
never any fun there, not even in the beginning.

The no tear out hole is addicting!

On 6/23/12 6:47 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
A couple of weeks ago I had time to kill between appointments so I
visited HF for the first time. It was better than expected, with some
cheap crap and some fairly good items at good prices. I had a 20%
coupon so I bought the variable speed multi- tool for $31 and change.
A few days later, I found myself in need of a tool of that sort. It
did the job and did it well. I had to cut the caulk where it was
between siding trim and the first deck board I was removing. I'm
replacing my 25 year old PT deck boards with tiger wood. (Goncalo
Alves)

It may not perform as well as the $100+ tools, but it did what I
needed at a good price. I don't see myself using the tool every day
so I could not justify spending a lot.


What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least as
well - as the high-priced spread?


It doesn't. Stop being silly. It's great for the price and that is all.

Put it this way.... Give it a $100 price and put it in the same store
as any other $100-ish multitool. Who will choose the HF? No one.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com

---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 6/23/2012 10:23 AM, Leon wrote:
On 6/23/2012 9:00 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 07:49:55 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:


In previous posts it has been mentioned that the HF multi tool will
loose it's grip of the cutter and vibrates such that your hands may
tingle afterward. Not every one experiences that so, are you feeling
lucky today? :~) The Fein does not have that problem and or present a
hit or miss performance experience.

HF is what it is. If it has something you need to use once or twice or
on occasion it may be just right for you. If not you can do better.


This is the second time in my life that I could really use such a
tool. The first time was a half dozen years ago and I used a hand
saw.

If I used it every day, I'd not hesitate to buy the Fein. For the
half hour of use I cage it, it was a good value for the cheap-o. Now
that I have it, if I find more uses, I'll upgrade.

But you know. ;~) now that you have it you will use it more.

When the Domino first came out I thought I would probably use it as much
ad my previous biscuit cutters. In 20 years I probably used 2000
biscuits. In the last 5 years I have probably used, well I am on my
second replacement case of 5 mm Domino's. IIRC the initial assortment
set of Domino tenons included 600 5mm dominoes. The replacement cases
have 1800 dominoes. Not to mention the replacement case of 6mm tenons.

So I have probably used 4,000 dominoes in all sizes and double that
number for the mortises that were cut to receive them. ;~)

That was the experience with the cheap drill press I bought. I never
had a drill press before and now find a barely use my hand drill.

I would like to have a drill press with a little larger throat, to be
able to cut large thicknesses.

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

On 6/23/2012 1:28 PM, Steve B wrote:
....

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.
....

There's a point at which skill level (or, more precisely, lack thereof)
pretty much negates the quality of the tool. After a point, then the
talent can make use of the tool's full capabilities.

A rank novice will not make a Strad sound like anything more than what
they will get on a starter...give each to an experienced violinist and
the difference will be clearly evident.

--

On 6/23/2012 2:41 PM, dpb wrote:
On 6/23/2012 1:28 PM, Steve B wrote:
...

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with
questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it
straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary.
It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.
...

There's a point at which skill level (or, more precisely, lack thereof)
pretty much negates the quality of the tool. After a point, then the
talent can make use of the tool's full capabilities.

A rank novice will not make a Strad sound like anything more than what
they will get on a starter...give each to an experienced violinist and
the difference will be clearly evident.

Yep, instrument "tone" has many components, but none more important than
the _hands_ of the artist.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

-MIKE- wrote:
On 6/23/12 6:47 AM, HeyBub wrote:


What makes you think the HF tool won't perform BETTER - or at least
as well - as the high-priced spread?


It doesn't. Stop being silly. It's great for the price and that is
all.
Put it this way.... Give it a $100 price and put it in the same store
as any other $100-ish multitool. Who will choose the HF? No one.

Agreed, and I am one of the bigger advocates of HF for certain tools, in the
group. Many are as good as any more expensive tool will ever offer you (not
withstanding longetivty possibly, but that is one of the considerations in
making the purchase), and many are only as good as you need for what you
do - which can make it good enough. But... there is a trade off in quality.
Many of us will never hit that point of the trade off, so the tool is just
fine. Others - will hit it very quickly and it's a bad option for them.

Having said that - there is a ton of stuff sold in the big box stores for
3x, 4x, or more than HF, and is of no better quality. Just a bigger name.

--

-Mike-

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:50:16 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
wrote:

On Jun 23, 8:54*am, Keith Nuttle wrote:
On 6/23/2012 8:09 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 06:47:11 -0500, "HeyBub"

Never having used the high priced spread, I can't say for sure if it
is better or worse. *It easily met my expectations for a $31 tool and
got the job done. *If I paid $119 or more, I'd have been disappointed
in its performance. *At the price, it is a good value.

If you paid $119 for it you would have an expensive tool that you use
once per year taking up space in your toolbox. *The HF tool will do the
infrequent job well, and you will have money for the money to but the
expensive tools that you use daily. *I have been very satisfied with the
stuff that I have bought at HF.

It is all about pre-selection. If it feels and looks like crap....
don't buy it!

Perzactly. Do analyze the tools before you buy 'em. Often, the
mid-priced tool is the best all-around value.

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400, knuttle
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400, knuttle
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.


Beats it at what? It's easy to think of jobs where neither an impact
driver nor an electric drill belongs.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:05:38 -0400, Bill wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400, knuttle
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.


Beats it at what? It's easy to think of jobs where neither an impact
driver nor an electric drill belongs.

Driving 100 screws. I can't think of one, BTW.

" wrote in
:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:05:38 -0400, Bill wrote:


Beats it at what? It's easy to think of jobs where neither an impact
driver nor an electric drill belongs.

Driving 100 screws. I can't think of one, BTW.


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right place
(not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will have
trouble with it.)

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't know
what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the waterline, but
an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice there.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 24 Jun 2012 20:40:26 GMT, Puckdropper puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:05:38 -0400, Bill wrote:


Beats it at what? It's easy to think of jobs where neither an impact
driver nor an electric drill belongs.

Driving 100 screws. I can't think of one, BTW.


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

A precise clutch would be certainly offset the size.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right place
(not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will have
trouble with it.)

You've never seen an powered torque wrench/driver? They're used for such
assemblies all the time.

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't know
what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the waterline, but
an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice there.

Screws below the water line? Yeesh!

On 24 Jun 2012 20:40:26 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

" wrote in
:

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 02:05:38 -0400, Bill wrote:


Beats it at what? It's easy to think of jobs where neither an impact
driver nor an electric drill belongs.

Driving 100 screws. I can't think of one, BTW.


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right place
(not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will have
trouble with it.)

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't know
what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the waterline, but
an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice there.

Puckdropper

Are you into model railroading?

Mike M

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Just how does it do that Leon?

The thing that impressed me about impact drivers is that I don't have to
lean into a long bit like I used to to keep the phillips from camming
out. The impact driver drives it without the problems.




An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Yabbut, how _few_ will it drive? I'll get 100+ out of my Makita 18v
impact. g (PopMech mag got 128 in their review) Now, how many 1/2"
x 6" lag bolts will yours seat? giggle

The finesse is an added point, though, especially for small wood
screws in hardwoods.

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Leave it to you. ;-)

BTW, I have both Bosch 12V and 18V impact drivers. I'm not about to give
either up, or buy a Festool to replace them. I like Festool stuff but one of
their drivers isn't in the future for this pup.

Mike M wrote in
:

On 24 Jun 2012 20:40:26 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right
place (not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will
have trouble with it.)

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't
know what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the
waterline, but an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice
there.

Puckdropper

Are you into model railroading?

Mike M

Yes, I am. I had just gotten back from a train show when I wrote that
message.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 6/24/2012 8:08 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
Just how does it do that Leon?

The thing that impressed me about impact drivers is that I don't have to
lean into a long bit like I used to to keep the phillips from camming
out. The impact driver drives it without the problems.



The impact does it with torque, the Festool T series drills do it with
torque, controlled torque. I was assembling 2x4 shelving in my storage
shed and driving 3" deck screws up to their heads. I could start out
slow to go in the correct direction and speed up, slow down, stop, start
slow, start fast, etc. Regardless of what trigger position I chose the
drill turned the bit at that speed and stopped instantly if I released
the trigger. Basically I had total control and did not have to over
squeeze the trigger to restart if I chose to stop mid way into driving a
screw.

All I know is that I have a 18 volt and 12 volt impact at my immediate
disposal and have not use either that I recall since January. I used to
use the impacts about 60% of the time. And I don't use a corded drill
for pocket holes any more either. The Festool drill is doing it all.

I was not sure about the hype of the new Festool T series drill until I
had used mine for a few days.

On 6/24/2012 8:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Yabbut, how _few_ will it drive? I'll get 100+ out of my Makita 18v
impact.g

I was driving about 200, 3" screws with the Festool drill, It has a 3amp
15 volt battery pack.



The finesse is an added point, though, especially for small wood
screws in hardwoods.

Yeah that is pretty cool too, the clutch is electronic, it sounds a tone
and stops with out the rattling sound most clutches make. The drill
remains stooped after the clutch setting is reached until you release
the trigger and pull it again.

On 6/24/2012 8:41 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Leave it to you. ;-)

BTW, I have both Bosch 12V and 18V impact drivers. I'm not about to give
either up, or buy a Festool to replace them. I like Festool stuff but one of
their drivers isn't in the future for this pup.

Actually I have an 18 bolt Bosch impact too. ;~) I very seldom used it
over the 12 volt Makita.

I certainly do not recommend replacing an impact with a more expensive
Festool T series for the sake of eliminating the impact. My Makita
batteries had been replaced once and were due again and both the drill
and impacts had been used a lot in the last 7 years, it was time to
replace. My wife pushed me over the edge by getting it for me for
Christmas. I also would never have believed the way these things
perform, I was seriously interested in knowing that Festool is supposed
to offer a naked impact later this year. Now not so much.
Now days I have the Bosch impact as a back up should I need the extreme,
but so far 6 months later I have not had the need.

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:14:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/24/2012 8:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Yabbut, how _few_ will it drive? I'll get 100+ out of my Makita 18v
impact.g

I was driving about 200, 3" screws with the Festool drill, It has a 3amp
15 volt battery pack.

Color me really impressed! Most drills don't do more than a couple
dozen. The high torque kills the batteries fast.


The finesse is an added point, though, especially for small wood
screws in hardwoods.

Yeah that is pretty cool too, the clutch is electronic, it sounds a tone
and stops with out the rattling sound most clutches make. The drill
remains stooped after the clutch setting is reached until you release
the trigger and pull it again.

Nice.

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:14:11 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:


I was driving about 200, 3" screws with the Festool drill, It has a
3amp 15 volt battery pack.

Color me really impressed! Most drills don't do more than a couple
dozen. The high torque kills the batteries fast.



When I built my trailer last summer I easily got 200 2 1/2" screws out of a
single charge with my Ridgid screw gun. Never brought out my impact. A
good 18v gun will handle that load these days without a lot of struggle.
FWIW - my batteries are 3A size.

--

-Mike-

On 25 Jun 2012 09:03:25 GMT, Puckdropper
Yes, I am. I had just gotten back from a train show when I wrote that
message.

You should be able to find what you want at Micromark.
http://www.micromark.com/

On 6/25/2012 8:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:14:11 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/24/2012 8:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Yabbut, how _few_ will it drive? I'll get 100+ out of my Makita 18v
impact.g

I was driving about 200, 3" screws with the Festool drill, It has a 3amp
15 volt battery pack.

Color me really impressed! Most drills don't do more than a couple
dozen. The high torque kills the batteries fast.

It does not add up. LOL I wonder if it is the electronic circuitry and
the brush-less motor..