Leon wrote:


It does not add up. LOL I wonder if it is the electronic circuitry
and the brush-less motor..

You're right Leon - it does not add up. Most drills do indeed run
more/better than what Larry suggested. Your Festool may well be a tad
better than its competition (and it damned well shoud for the price), but
Larry significantly downplayed the abilities of the competition.

--

-Mike-

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 11:47:37 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/25/2012 8:11 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:14:11 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/24/2012 8:22 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Yabbut, how _few_ will it drive? I'll get 100+ out of my Makita 18v
impact.g

I was driving about 200, 3" screws with the Festool drill, It has a 3amp
15 volt battery pack.

Color me really impressed! Most drills don't do more than a couple
dozen. The high torque kills the batteries fast.

It does not add up. LOL I wonder if it is the electronic circuitry and
the brush-less motor..

Either that or you were padding the hell out of your figures.
Oh, I used to use 3.5" screws for decks, then I found the 25# boxes of
3-inchers were cheaper. Then the local store changed to another
hardware supply and prices dropped significantly. I haven't yet
priced deck screws at SASCO but will when I swing though Medford
today.

--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

Dave wrote in
:

On 25 Jun 2012 09:03:25 GMT, Puckdropper
Yes, I am. I had just gotten back from a train show when I wrote that
message.

You should be able to find what you want at Micromark.
http://www.micromark.com/


Sure, but Harbor Freight's cheaper. *g*

That "Mini chop saw" is a great buy at around $30. If they'd eliminate
the clamp and install a traditional fence, it'd be even better.

What I needed for driving those tiny screws, though, I found at Lowes.
They have a two pack of screwdrivers for around $2 I think that feel good
and fit the screws quite nicely. With a couple little tangs on the metal
part where it's inside the plastic, they're not likely to suffer from
spinning like many of the cheaper ones do.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 25 Jun 2012 09:03:25 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Mike M wrote in
:

On 24 Jun 2012 20:40:26 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right
place (not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will
have trouble with it.)

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't
know what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the
waterline, but an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice
there.

Puckdropper

Are you into model railroading?

Mike M

Yes, I am. I had just gotten back from a train show when I wrote that
message.

Puckdropper

I still have my lionel train from when I was a kid in the 50's. Set
up for xmas a few years back but haven't found a place to set it up
permanetly yet.

Mike M

A friend of mine set up his Lionel in a guest room. He put a shelf
around the top 1 foot of the room. Painted murals of trees and just
fully did up the room. It was awesome. The whole rooms motif was that.

Later he did his entire attic. He got hit with the bug again. Wound up
on one of the magazines.

Really the guest room is a nice way of displaying and keeping it out of
the way, high and not a bother ..



On 6/25/2012 4:26 PM, Mike M wrote:
On 25 Jun 2012 09:03:25 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Mike M wrote in
:

On 24 Jun 2012 20:40:26 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right
place (not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will
have trouble with it.)

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't
know what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the
waterline, but an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice
there.

Puckdropper

Are you into model railroading?

Mike M

Yes, I am. I had just gotten back from a train show when I wrote that
message.

Puckdropper

I still have my lionel train from when I was a kid in the 50's. Set
up for xmas a few years back but haven't found a place to set it up
permanetly yet.

Mike M

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 16:36:44 -0400, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com
wrote:

A friend of mine set up his Lionel in a guest room. He put a shelf
around the top 1 foot of the room. Painted murals of trees and just
fully did up the room. It was awesome. The whole rooms motif was that.

Later he did his entire attic. He got hit with the bug again. Wound up
on one of the magazines.

Really the guest room is a nice way of displaying and keeping it out of
the way, high and not a bother ..


My house is pretty small so not much in the way of extra space. But I
remember as a kid a buddy's day had done the same thing in their
basement. No murals but it went thru walls and everything. I'll get
inspired when I figure out how to run the train from the Keg
refrigerator in the shop to the deck, and how to have a car that
delivers a cold one. 8-)

Mike M

On 6/25/2012 11:56 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
Leon wrote:


It does not add up. LOL I wonder if it is the electronic circuitry
and the brush-less motor..

You're right Leon - it does not add up. Most drills do indeed run
more/better than what Larry suggested. Your Festool may well be a tad
better than its competition (and it damned well shoud for the price), but
Larry significantly downplayed the abilities of the competition.


In all fairness, if you could buy the Festool drill, 2 batteries and a
charger in the typical box that comes with others it could be $200-$300
less expensive. But with a Systainer that integrates with the other
Festool tools and boxes, the right angle attachment, the eccentric off
set, and centronic chuck in addition to the normal chuck you get a lot
more with this drill than the competition offers. Yes I do use those
additional attachments and pretty often.

On 6/25/2012 1:27 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

It does not add up. LOL I wonder if it is the electronic circuitry and
the brush-less motor..

Either that or you were padding the hell out of your figures.
Oh, I used to use 3.5" screws for decks, then I found the 25# boxes of
3-inchers were cheaper. Then the local store changed to another
hardware supply and prices dropped significantly. I haven't yet
priced deck screws at SASCO but will when I swing though Medford
today.

5# box of 3" deck screws, approximately 275. One charge almost drove
them all.





--
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to
succeed is more important than any one thing.
-- Abraham Lincoln

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 13:26:32 -0700, Mike M wrote:

On 25 Jun 2012 09:03:25 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Mike M wrote in
m:

On 24 Jun 2012 20:40:26 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:


I can think of one: Where the screws are tiny (0-80, 1-72, 2-56) and
anything with a motor would be too cumbersome.

On the other side of the connection, some model railroad manufacturers
use plastic (or plastic-like) nuts to hold screws. The time to stop
tightening them is before or at the moment the pieces are snug.
Something with a motor would have a hard time stopping at the right
place (not to say it can't be done, just the average drill/driver will
have trouble with it.)

One other place comes to mind: at or below the waterline. I don't
know what you'd be fixing to need to drive 100 screws below the
waterline, but an impact or electric drill would not be a good choice
there.

Puckdropper

Are you into model railroading?

Mike M

Yes, I am. I had just gotten back from a train show when I wrote that
message.

Puckdropper

I still have my lionel train from when I was a kid in the 50's. Set
up for xmas a few years back but haven't found a place to set it up
permanetly yet.

We're in the (long) process of moving from a house on a slab to one with a
2000ft^2 basement (A.K.A. man cave). I have plans for getting the HO stuff I
inherited from my FIL set up. The rest goes to wood working. ;-)

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 07:23:19 -0500, Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/24/2012 8:41 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jun 2012 19:23:49 -0500, Leonlcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote:

On 6/23/2012 11:21 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 22:35:54 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/23/2012 9:06 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:28:45 -0400, Ed wrote:

On Sat, 23 Jun 2012 11:28:18 -0700, "Steve
wrote:


"Leon"lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote

Exactly! But unless you have had the good stuff in your hands you may
never realize what you are missing. LOL

It's a toss up. I've seen guys who could do expert work with questionable
tools. And those who had the spendy tools and couldn't get it straight or
make it fit together.

Yes, good tools are nice to work with, but not absolutely necessary. It has
been my observation, tho, that good craftsmen tend to have good tools.

Steve


Sure, what you say is true, but good tools make the job much easier.
It does not take a lot of money either. Take that #2 Phillips
screwdriver. After 100 screw, tell me if you want the $1.50 one or
the $8 model with the better contoured handle.

I want the impact one. ;-)

A $8 screwdriver is good but an electronic screwdriver is better for
small jobs, for big jobs a geared down hand drill is better.

An impact driver beats any hand drill. ...but that's besides the point.

That used to be true, now that Festool has the Tseries drills I am not
so sure. I have absolutely quit using my 12 volt Makita impact since
getting the Festool Drill. The Festool drill will drive 3" deck screws
in 2x4 stock almost as quickly as the impact and with greater fineness
and much less noise. I was a believer in impacts for 7+years but not so
much anymore.

Leave it to you. ;-)

BTW, I have both Bosch 12V and 18V impact drivers. I'm not about to give
either up, or buy a Festool to replace them. I like Festool stuff but one of
their drivers isn't in the future for this pup.

Actually I have an 18 bolt Bosch impact too. ;~) I very seldom used it
over the 12 volt Makita.

I almost always use the 12V Bosch. It's nice and compact and working overhead
with it isn't a problem. I almost always use the 12V drill, rather than the
18V, too.

I certainly do not recommend replacing an impact with a more expensive
Festool T series for the sake of eliminating the impact. My Makita
batteries had been replaced once and were due again and both the drill
and impacts had been used a lot in the last 7 years, it was time to
replace. My wife pushed me over the edge by getting it for me for
Christmas. I also would never have believed the way these things
perform, I was seriously interested in knowing that Festool is supposed
to offer a naked impact later this year. Now not so much.
Now days I have the Bosch impact as a back up should I need the extreme,
but so far 6 months later I have not had the need.

I haven't had to do it, but the Bosch batteries look to be rebuildable.

On Mon, 25 Jun 2012 21:56:11 -0400, "
wrote:




I almost always use the 12V Bosch. It's nice and compact and working overhead
with it isn't a problem. I almost always use the 12V drill, rather than the
18V, too.


The right tool for the job. I get a kick out of these guys buying
the most powerful (and heaviest) tool they can find and the most
service it will ever get is four screws to mount a curtain rod.

Mike M wrote in
news
My house is pretty small so not much in the way of extra space. But I
remember as a kid a buddy's day had done the same thing in their
basement. No murals but it went thru walls and everything. I'll get
inspired when I figure out how to run the train from the Keg
refrigerator in the shop to the deck, and how to have a car that
delivers a cold one. 8-)

Mike M

All you need is a angled stack of cans and a trip lever. When the
appropriate car passes, the trip lever activates and a can comes down into
the car. Lionel probably made a similar accessory, but it handled little
pieces of pipe and not 12 oz cans.

;-)

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

In article om,
Puckdropper says...

Mike M wrote in
news
My house is pretty small so not much in the way of extra space. But I
remember as a kid a buddy's day had done the same thing in their
basement. No murals but it went thru walls and everything. I'll get
inspired when I figure out how to run the train from the Keg
refrigerator in the shop to the deck, and how to have a car that
delivers a cold one. 8-)

Mike M

All you need is a angled stack of cans and a trip lever. When the
appropriate car passes, the trip lever activates and a can comes down into
the car. Lionel probably made a similar accessory, but it handled little
pieces of pipe and not 12 oz cans.

Or if you want something fancy I'm sure that something could be cobbled
up with Lego Mindstorms and a Meccano set.

On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:13:16 -0400, "J. Clarke"
All you need is a angled stack of cans and a trip lever. When the
appropriate car passes, the trip lever activates and a can comes down into
the car. Lionel probably made a similar accessory, but it handled little
pieces of pipe and not 12 oz cans.

Or if you want something fancy I'm sure that something could be cobbled
up with Lego Mindstorms and a Meccano set.

Too much work. Just train the family dog to open the fridge and grab a
beer. Much easier.

"Dave" wrote:

Too much work. Just train the family dog to open the fridge and grab
a
beer. Much easier.
------------------------------------
As in the current Budweiser commercial with a dog named "WeGo"?

Lew

On Tue, 26 Jun 2012 10:19:21 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
Too much work. Just train the family dog to open the fridge and grab
a beer. Much easier.
------------------------------------
As in the current Budweiser commercial with a dog named "WeGo"?

Actually, I was thinking of a friend who has a service dog that really
does fetch beer, but WeGo will do.

On 26 Jun 2012 12:32:03 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

Mike M wrote in
news
My house is pretty small so not much in the way of extra space. But I
remember as a kid a buddy's day had done the same thing in their
basement. No murals but it went thru walls and everything. I'll get
inspired when I figure out how to run the train from the Keg
refrigerator in the shop to the deck, and how to have a car that
delivers a cold one. 8-)

Mike M

All you need is a angled stack of cans and a trip lever. When the
appropriate car passes, the trip lever activates and a can comes down into
the car. Lionel probably made a similar accessory, but it handled little
pieces of pipe and not 12 oz cans.

;-)

Puckdropper

I actually have the barrel loader, but I don't think I could find cans
that small.

Mike M

In article ocal,
J. Clarke wrote:
In article om,
Puckdropper says...

Mike M wrote in
news
My house is pretty small so not much in the way of extra space. But I
remember as a kid a buddy's day had done the same thing in their
basement. No murals but it went thru walls and everything. I'll get
inspired when I figure out how to run the train from the Keg
refrigerator in the shop to the deck, and how to have a car that
delivers a cold one. 8-)

Mike M

All you need is a angled stack of cans and a trip lever. When the
appropriate car passes, the trip lever activates and a can comes down into
the car. Lionel probably made a similar accessory, but it handled little
pieces of pipe and not 12 oz cans.

Or if you want something fancy I'm sure that something could be cobbled
up with Lego Mindstorms and a Meccano set.

Geez, I remember when you'd just tell your wife or kid to go get you one...


--
There is always an easy solution to every human problem -- neat,
plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

In article ,
says...

In article ocal,
J. Clarke wrote:
In article om,
Puckdropper says...

Mike M wrote in
news
My house is pretty small so not much in the way of extra space. But I
remember as a kid a buddy's day had done the same thing in their
basement. No murals but it went thru walls and everything. I'll get
inspired when I figure out how to run the train from the Keg
refrigerator in the shop to the deck, and how to have a car that
delivers a cold one. 8-)

Mike M

All you need is a angled stack of cans and a trip lever. When the
appropriate car passes, the trip lever activates and a can comes down into
the car. Lionel probably made a similar accessory, but it handled little
pieces of pipe and not 12 oz cans.

Or if you want something fancy I'm sure that something could be cobbled
up with Lego Mindstorms and a Meccano set.

Geez, I remember when you'd just tell your wife or kid to go get you one...

For the price of a wife and kid you can buy a _lot_ of robotic stuff.

Mike M wrote in
:


I actually have the barrel loader, but I don't think I could find cans
that small.

Mike M

Details, details...

Use it as a template for building a bigger one. The motion's the same (I
think) so all you've got to do is Tim Taylor it. Argh ARgh Argh argh!

Ok, maybe not that big... Kegs are too big for any model train to handle.
You've got to get up to the ride-on style for that.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

In article m,
Puckdropper says...

Mike M wrote in
:


I actually have the barrel loader, but I don't think I could find cans
that small.

Mike M

Details, details...

Use it as a template for building a bigger one. The motion's the same (I
think) so all you've got to do is Tim Taylor it. Argh ARgh Argh argh!

Ok, maybe not that big... Kegs are too big for any model train to handle.
You've got to get up to the ride-on style for that.

Be an interesting project to try though. Four or so tracks side by side
with multiple cars on each?

"J. Clarke" wrote in
in.local:

In article m,
Puckdropper says...

Details, details...

Use it as a template for building a bigger one. The motion's the
same (I think) so all you've got to do is Tim Taylor it. Argh ARgh
Argh argh!

Ok, maybe not that big... Kegs are too big for any model train to
handle. You've got to get up to the ride-on style for that.

Be an interesting project to try though. Four or so tracks side by
side with multiple cars on each?


How big's the average Keg? Somewhere on the order of 5 gallons? That's
about 40 lbs of _Liquid_ weight (that poses some other issues). Four
track side-by-side, assuming an evenly distributed load would mean 10
lbs/track, and would probably require 3 or 4 Lionel-sized cars for the
length per track. With 3 or 4 locomotives per train, if the axles on the
cars hold, you might just do it... until you came to a curve.

Now, if you're thinking about cans or bottles, that's easy. One can or
bottle to a car, and make the train as long as your locomotives can pull
it. (Mike M said "Keg refrigerator", so that's why I was thinking Keg.)

Gondolas would probably be best. Their shallow sides would hold the
weight nice and low in the car, unlike hoppers or various flatbeds, where
the weight would be higher and more prone to tip. Playing "train wreck"
was fun at 5, but now there's precious cargo on board!

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 27 Jun 2012 17:03:18 GMT, Puckdropper
puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com wrote:

"J. Clarke" wrote in
ain.local:

In article m,
Puckdropper says...

Details, details...

Use it as a template for building a bigger one. The motion's the
same (I think) so all you've got to do is Tim Taylor it. Argh ARgh
Argh argh!

Ok, maybe not that big... Kegs are too big for any model train to
handle. You've got to get up to the ride-on style for that.

Be an interesting project to try though. Four or so tracks side by
side with multiple cars on each?


How big's the average Keg? Somewhere on the order of 5 gallons? That's
about 40 lbs of _Liquid_ weight (that poses some other issues). Four
track side-by-side, assuming an evenly distributed load would mean 10
lbs/track, and would probably require 3 or 4 Lionel-sized cars for the
length per track. With 3 or 4 locomotives per train, if the axles on the
cars hold, you might just do it... until you came to a curve.

Now, if you're thinking about cans or bottles, that's easy. One can or
bottle to a car, and make the train as long as your locomotives can pull
it. (Mike M said "Keg refrigerator", so that's why I was thinking Keg.)

Gondolas would probably be best. Their shallow sides would hold the
weight nice and low in the car, unlike hoppers or various flatbeds, where
the weight would be higher and more prone to tip. Playing "train wreck"
was fun at 5, but now there's precious cargo on board!

Puckdropper

Your original idea could be made to work. You would just have to
arange so a car could pull up under the tap which could be controlled
by a solenoid. The bigger problem would be protecting the track from
W. Washington weather. It's about 100' from the shop to the deck with
woods and driveways. You would need some kind of cover for the glass
to minimize spillage and you could probably due that magnetically thru
the track to the car. If I get my leg working right again it's
probably better to walk for the excercise.

Mike M