Somebody check my math here, too, please... So I'm trying to mix up a small amount of
shellac in a 1-pound cut -- i.e. 16 ounces (by weight) of shellac per 128 ounces (by volume) of
alcohol, right? The ratio 16:128 is the same as 1:8, so this should be equivalent to one ounce
(by weight) of shellac flakes in 8 ounces (by volume) of alcohol.

Which I stirred up just before going to bed on *Sunday* night.

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container, only about half of the flakes
are actually dissolved. What's going on here? Old shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but
it's been stored in a sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light, moisture, and
heat.

Hi Doug,

So you are correct.

I use a coffee grinder on my flakes.

Since you are already past that.. try heating the jar up with some hot
water around it, or stick it in the car during the day. The heat from
the sun maybe enough to dissolve the flakes. (I got that from someone
else and have successfully used it myself)

It's like hot water dissolves sugar better than cold for tea.

I have used flakes that are years old. But that said I have on occasion
just struck out and gone what the hey.



On 6/5/2012 6:06 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
Somebody check my math here, too, please... So I'm trying to mix up a small amount of
shellac in a 1-pound cut -- i.e. 16 ounces (by weight) of shellac per 128 ounces (by volume) of
alcohol, right? The ratio 16:128 is the same as 1:8, so this should be equivalent to one ounce
(by weight) of shellac flakes in 8 ounces (by volume) of alcohol.

Which I stirred up just before going to bed on *Sunday* night.

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container, only about half of the flakes
are actually dissolved. What's going on here? Old shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but
it's been stored in a sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light, moisture, and
heat.

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 22:06:23 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container,
only about half of the flakes are actually dissolved. What's going on
here? Old shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but it's been
stored in a sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light,
moisture, and heat.

How strong is the alcohol? Has it been exposed to air and absorbed
water? How big are the shellac flakes? Are they blond, garnet, etc.?
Are they dewaxed?

I've had the best luck using 97% alcohol from a chemical supply house and
breaking up the flakes with a mortar and pestle. Dewaxed blonde seems to
dissolve the quickest and garnet flakes with wax the slowest.

Heat helps a lot. If you have a way to keep a container of water at a
steady warmth, put the shellac container in the hot water.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote in news:ksKdnYyhcbq_C1PSnZ2dnUVZ_s-
:

Hi Doug,

So you are correct.

I use a coffee grinder on my flakes.

I've heard that tip before -- and remembered it about ten hours after dumping in the alcohol.
:-(

Since you are already past that.. try heating the jar up with some hot
water around it,

Thanks -- I tried that already. Didn't help. :-(

or stick it in the car during the day. The heat from
the sun maybe enough to dissolve the flakes. (I got that from someone
else and have successfully used it myself)

It's like hot water dissolves sugar better than cold for tea.

I have used flakes that are years old. But that said I have on occasion
just struck out and gone what the hey.

I think that's where I am now. Our local Ace Hardware carries Bulls-Eye shellac in quarts,
and they open at 8 tomorrow morning.

Larry Blanchard wrote in :

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 22:06:23 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container,
only about half of the flakes are actually dissolved. What's going on
here? Old shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but it's been
stored in a sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light,
moisture, and heat.

How strong is the alcohol?

Pure denatured alcohol from the Borg.

Has it been exposed to air and absorbed water?

Tightly closed steel gallon can.

How big are the shellac flakes? Are they blond, garnet, etc.?
Are they dewaxed?

Blond dewaxed flakes from Woodcraft. Probably 1/8" to 3/8" across.

I've had the best luck using 97% alcohol from a chemical supply house and
breaking up the flakes with a mortar and pestle.

I've used a coffee grinder before, but inexplicably forgot to do that.

Dewaxed blonde seems to
dissolve the quickest and garnet flakes with wax the slowest.

Heat helps a lot. If you have a way to keep a container of water at a
steady warmth, put the shellac container in the hot water.

Tried that already -- I needed to heat up some hide glue yesterday morning anyway, so I
warmed up the pot early, put some water in it, and let the shellac mixture warm up to glue-
pot temperature (about 140 F). This had no apparent effect on the solubility of the flakes.

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 23:41:24 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 22:06:23 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container,
only about half of the flakes are actually dissolved. What's going on
here? Old shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but it's been
stored in a sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light,
moisture, and heat.

How strong is the alcohol? Has it been exposed to air and absorbed
water? How big are the shellac flakes? Are they blond, garnet, etc.?
Are they dewaxed?

I've had the best luck using 97% alcohol from a chemical supply house and
breaking up the flakes with a mortar and pestle. Dewaxed blonde seems to
dissolve the quickest and garnet flakes with wax the slowest.

Heat helps a lot. If you have a way to keep a container of water at a
steady warmth, put the shellac container in the hot water.

+1 on the heat idea. Loosen the jar lid, set in a bowl of hot water.
Shake every few minutes until it dissolves. It can be 10 or more times
quicker than the cold method.

Denatured alcohol dissolves the fastest and evaporates the fastest.
And the thinner the flake, the quicker it dissolves. Crush buttons
with pliers for quicker dissolution.

--
Silence is more musical than any song.
-- Christina Rossetti

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 23:41:24 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 22:06:23 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container,
only about half of the flakes are actually dissolved. What's going on
here? Old shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but it's been
stored in a sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light,
moisture, and heat.

How strong is the alcohol? Has it been exposed to air and absorbed
water? How big are the shellac flakes? Are they blond, garnet, etc.?
Are they dewaxed?

I've had the best luck using 97% alcohol from a chemical supply house and
breaking up the flakes with a mortar and pestle. Dewaxed blonde seems to
dissolve the quickest and garnet flakes with wax the slowest.

Heat helps a lot. If you have a way to keep a container of water at a
steady warmth, put the shellac container in the hot water.
Keep a lid on the shellac when you warm it up, or it will boil all
the hooch off.

On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 00:07:42 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

I think that's where I am now. Our local Ace Hardware carries Bulls-Eye
shellac in quarts, and they open at 8 tomorrow morning.

Doug, if you haven't tried it before, get the SealCoat. It's a 2 pound
cut and dewaxed - much more moisture resistant than BullsEye.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 00:13:09 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

How strong is the alcohol?

Pure denatured alcohol from the Borg.

One of the things that bugs me about alcohol from Home Depot and Lowes is
that they don't list the alcohol percent on the can and no one at the
stores has any idea. I know it's not 100%, that's darn near impossible
and very expensive.

I do know that the 97% stuff from a supply place dissolved flakes a lot
quicker, so I'd assume 80%-90% for the Borg stuff. Although I did find
an MSDS on their stuff that claimed 45%-50% each for ethanol and methanol.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

How strong is the alcohol?

Pure denatured alcohol from the Borg.

One of the things that bugs me about alcohol from Home Depot and
Lowes is
that they don't list the alcohol percent on the can and no one at
the
stores has any idea. I know it's not 100%, that's darn near
impossible
and very expensive.

I do know that the 97% stuff from a supply place dissolved flakes a
lot
quicker, so I'd assume 80%-90% for the Borg stuff. Although I did
find
an MSDS on their stuff that claimed 45%-50% each for ethanol and
methanol.
---------------------------------------
SFWIW, 200 proof = 100%.

Booze is seldom listed above 190 proof or 95%.

Alcohol left open to the atmosphere will suck moisture out of the air,
thus reducing it's proof.

Lew

Doug Miller wrote:

Somebody check my math here, too, please... So I'm trying to mix up a
small amount of shellac in a 1-pound cut -- i.e. 16 ounces (by weight) of
shellac per 128 ounces (by volume) of alcohol, right? The ratio 16:128 is
the same as 1:8, so this should be equivalent to one ounce (by weight) of
shellac flakes in 8 ounces (by volume) of alcohol.

Which I stirred up just before going to bed on *Sunday* night.

Forty-three hours later, despite frequent agitation of the container, only
about half of the flakes are actually dissolved. What's going on here? Old
shellac? This stuff isn't especially fresh, but it's been stored in a
sealed zip-lock bag, at room temperature, away from light, moisture, and
heat.


Doug, all the advice was great - however, it could be that your "de-waxed"
isn't as de-waxed as it should be. I bought a couple of pounds of super
blond de-waxed flakes from a very reputable dealer. Every batch I have
brewed up (using 190-200 proof alcohol) has had a large sediment lump in
the bottom of the jar, making it look like only half the shellac was
dissolved. Truth be told, it was wax and residue. Just pour off and use
what you have.

But as Lew said, next time get the "good" alcohol from someone other than a
Big Box store.

Deb

On 6/6/2012 3:45 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
On Wed, 06 Jun 2012 00:13:09 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:

How strong is the alcohol?

Pure denatured alcohol from the Borg.

One of the things that bugs me about alcohol from Home Depot and Lowes is
that they don't list the alcohol percent on the can and no one at the
stores has any idea. I know it's not 100%, that's darn near impossible
and very expensive.

I do know that the 97% stuff from a supply place dissolved flakes a lot
quicker, so I'd assume 80%-90% for the Borg stuff. Although I did find
an MSDS on their stuff that claimed 45%-50% each for ethanol and methanol.

99% Isopropyl, at just about any drug store, is about as good as it gets
for cutting shellac without an excise tax. A bit pricey (IIRC, Amazon
has it for around $9/32oz or $50/case of 12/160z), but for spraying on
on hot humid days it is insurance for a good job.

I spray a lot of shellac in my shop and I typically use 99% Isopropyl on
hot humid days to cut 3# to 1 1/2# for spraying as it mitigates blushing
with high humidity.

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
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