CW wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:


Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
that goes to the hardness issue).

Huh? Who ever told you that?

Now do you see why I filtered him? /rhetorical question
================================================== ======
Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot
of it on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on poly
with no problems.

--

-Mike-

On 2/20/2012 9:56 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak
i practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i
need to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:

1. not water based poly
2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
3. not too slick to sock feet

Things that don't matter:

1. odor while applying
2. cost
3. time takes to finish properly

thanks in advance! ,
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns
orange in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust
the color to something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very
durable finish. Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas,
most of the wear is concentrated in the middle and front of the the
tread, and it will wear very quickly if it is not finished properly.
Shellac is great but it won't last very long.

If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very
well be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in my
home that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a golden
color. How long are you talking about to see the orange?

Leon. Have you ever had a look at the Cadex nailers? They're a pin
nailer that shoots a "slightly headed pin". The key benefit to them is
the increased holding power.

Now, I'm wondering how much of a difference there is between the foot
print of a regular pinner and one of these "slightly headed pins"?

I've got to say, every time I'm in the market for something new, the
internet can be a curse as well as a blessing. There's so many options
for stuff these days that it's often a pain to pick something.

Leon lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in
:

If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very
well be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in my
home that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a golden
color. How long are you talking about to see the orange?

My red oak stepstool is still the same after finishing years ago with clear
shellac. OTOH, an ash shoe bech that I tried to warm up with some orangy
shellac initiall turned all kinds of colors, from green to orange, and only
later did I get it to just be a warm orange brown. I figure it is
interaction between components added to the shellac and resins in the wood
that can yield surprises. The advice would likely be a thin (diluted)
shellac seal coat that's left to dry before adding more shellac, but I'm
FAR from expert.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 2/20/2012 9:56 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak
i practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i
need to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:

1. not water based poly
2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
3. not too slick to sock feet

Things that don't matter:

1. odor while applying
2. cost
3. time takes to finish properly

thanks in advance! ,
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns
orange in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust
the color to something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very
durable finish. Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas,
most of the wear is concentrated in the middle and front of the the
tread, and it will wear very quickly if it is not finished properly.
Shellac is great but it won't last very long.

If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very well
be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in my home
that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a golden color.
How long are you talking about to see the orange?

Some people may consider it to be "golden", to me I see the golden yellow
mixed with the hint of red in red oak and it looks closer to "orange" to me,
and I don't find it a pleasant color for wood. It seems to peak at about 10
years. I have seen it in a number of oak floors/furniture finished a variety
of ways so it doesn't appear to be caused by the finish. Possibly water
based will add less color and age better, only time will tell.

On 2/21/2012 10:03 AM, EXT wrote:

Some people may consider it to be "golden", to me I see the golden
yellow mixed with the hint of red in red oak and it looks closer to
"orange" to me, and I don't find it a pleasant color for wood. It seems
to peak at about 10 years. I have seen it in a number of oak
floors/furniture finished a variety of ways so it doesn't appear to be
caused by the finish. Possibly water based will add less color and age
better, only time will tell.

There is indeed an entire industry that seems built upon the phrase, if
not the color, "Golden Oak".

(AAMOF, I'm surprised some corporate jackass hasn't bought a
clowngressman in an attempted to TM the term yet)

I don't see the orange of which you speak ... then again I've been
touting the benefits of being color blind for some time.

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Feb 19, 12:01*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:
On 2/19/2012 10:15 AM, Swingman wrote:

On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.

Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor finishing at
one time.

FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent of
shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that says
otherwise ... you can quit now.

I seem to recall regular ol' alkyd resin varnish being around for quite a few
years before poly hit the scene. *Pretty much the same stuff as today's "Rock
Hard Tabletop Varnish", if I'm not mistaken.

Behlen's Rock Hard = phenolic resin. Nice stuff.

On Feb 18, 4:42*pm, Steve Barker wrote:
I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). *What i need
to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:

1. not water based poly
2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
3. not too slick to sock feet

Things that don't matter:

1. odor while applying
2. cost
3. time takes to finish properly

thanks in advance! ,
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Nothing makes red oak glow like amber shellac. It's plenty
durable; my oak floors are 40 years old, amber shellac finish,
still in good shape. 2 lb cut goes on fast, self-levels, no need
to scuff between coats, as with varnish or water based.

Cut the "slickness" by using paste floor wax; these differ
from regular wax by addition of silica.

On Feb 19, 12:23*pm, RP wrote:
On Feb 19, 10:53*am, tiredofspam nospam.nospam.com wrote:

Wow, shellac soft?
I don't think so. It is very hard once fully cured.

Still fairly soft even when fully cured compared to poly. Mars real
easy. Period. No need to reply. We got ~your~ message.

RP

Harder finishes buff to a higher gloss. I can compound shellac
(or lacquer) until it looks and feels like glass. Poly will look
and feel closer to Saran wrap.

On Feb 19, 2:05*pm, dpb wrote:
On 2/19/2012 1:03 PM, tiredofspam wrote: Ok, Shellac can water spot, leave an ice cold glass on the floor
overnight and you probably will have a water spot.

...

Leave a wet shoe or a puddle from a snow melt off the kids' overshoes
and you _will_ have a white spot.

Fixed can be, yes...more likely to need fixing--also, yes.

Make the kids do the fixing. Won't happen again.

Steve Barker wrote:

I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak i
practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i need
to know is what finish i can use that meets the following criteria:

1. not water based poly
2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
3. not too slick to sock feet

Things that don't matter:

1. odor while applying
2. cost
3. time takes to finish properly

thanks in advance! ,

Sure someone mentioned it - but - if you do go with shellac, dewaxed
will help it to stand up better to water.

On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 11:38:41 -0800 (PST), Father Haskell
wrote:

On Feb 19, 12:01*pm, Steve Turner
wrote:
On 2/19/2012 10:15 AM, Swingman wrote:

On 2/19/2012 9:54 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

What all finishers used to use before POLY? Shellac.

Not necessarily ... plain old wax was a finish of choice for floor finishing at
one time.

FWIW, at this point you have well established that you are a proponent of
shellac for hardwood floors ... no need to reply to every post that says
otherwise ... you can quit now.

I seem to recall regular ol' alkyd resin varnish being around for quite a few
years before poly hit the scene. *Pretty much the same stuff as today's "Rock
Hard Tabletop Varnish", if I'm not mistaken.

Behlen's Rock Hard = phenolic resin. Nice stuff.

It's pretty nice stuff, but it does scratch somewhat easily compared
to oil-based poly floor finish. It's also way too glossy for floor
use, IMHO.

--
The ultimate result of shielding men from folly
is to fill the world with fools.
-- Herbert Spencer

On Feb 21, 6:21*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. *I use it on poly
with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)

Robert

wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
poly with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)


HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to refer
to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta find a new
word.

--

-Mike-

"Mike Marlow" wrote in message
...
wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
poly with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)


HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to
refer to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta
find a new word.

Drop the "r" and you are good to go... if you slip up blame it on them not
hearing well due to noise in the shop. ;~)

John

On 2/21/2012 6:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
CW wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:


Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
that goes to the hardness issue).

Huh? Who ever told you that?

Now do you see why I filtered him?/rhetorical question
================================================== ======
Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot
of it on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs.

Damn, does that leave you a little "sensitive"? LOL


I use it on poly
with no problems.

On 2/22/2012 6:15 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
poly with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)


HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to refer
to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta find a new
word.


My dad "wrenches" his hands in the sink. :~)

On 2/21/2012 6:58 AM, Dave wrote:
Leon. Have you ever had a look at the Cadex nailers? They're a pin
nailer that shoots a "slightly headed pin". The key benefit to them is
the increased holding power.

Now, I'm wondering how much of a difference there is between the foot
print of a regular pinner and one of these "slightly headed pins"?

I've got to say, every time I'm in the market for something new, the
internet can be a curse as well as a blessing. There's so many options
for stuff these days that it's often a pain to pick something.

No Dave I have never see the Cadex in person.

But visiting their site, their 23 gauge brads have a .8mm wide head and
the 23 guuge nail is .025" wide. Basically the head is about 1.25 times
wider than the nail body. I don't see that as being much difference and
likely to only be wider on two sides and the same width on the sides
that the nails are attached to each other. Like 18 gauge brads.

On 2/21/2012 10:03 AM, EXT wrote:

"Leon" lcb11211@swbelldotnet wrote in message
...
On 2/20/2012 9:56 PM, EXT wrote:

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
I'm fixin' to sculpture some stair treads from some rough cut red oak
i practically stole from an Amish auction ( 85 cents per BF). What i
need to know is what finish i can use that meets the following
criteria:

1. not water based poly
2. natural (as clear as oil based can do)
3. not too slick to sock feet

Things that don't matter:

1. odor while applying
2. cost
3. time takes to finish properly

thanks in advance! ,
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Personally, red oak with a clear finish is an ugly wood, and it turns
orange in time as light ages it. I would first do something to adjust
the color to something more pleasing to the eye then coat it with a very
durable finish. Stairs get a lot of abuse, more than most floor areas,
most of the wear is concentrated in the middle and front of the the
tread, and it will wear very quickly if it is not finished properly.
Shellac is great but it won't last very long.

If you are getting orange out of your red oak after time it may very
well be your finish. I have clear coated/varnished red oak pieces in
my home that are going on 30 years old and they have only gone to a
golden color. How long are you talking about to see the orange?

Some people may consider it to be "golden", to me I see the golden
yellow mixed with the hint of red in red oak and it looks closer to
"orange" to me, and I don't find it a pleasant color for wood. It seems
to peak at about 10 years. I have seen it in a number of oak
floors/furniture finished a variety of ways so it doesn't appear to be
caused by the finish. Possibly water based will add less color and age
better, only time will tell.


Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion. :!)
I have never seen any red in red oak with the exception of when I sand
it with out dust collection. Fresh sanded red oak has a slight pinkish
cast to me. That all disappears with the introduction of a drop of
sweat or water and or any of the brands of varnish that I have been
using for the last 30 years.

I personally am not crazy about the golden color that it turns when wet
or varnished. LOL I do much prefer white oak over red oak.

On 2/22/2012 7:18 AM, Leon wrote:
On 2/21/2012 6:21 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
CW wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 19 Feb 2012 23:27:56 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

tiredofspam wrote:


Can't use scotchbrite with poly. its too hard (I guess
that goes to the hardness issue).

Huh? Who ever told you that?

Now do you see why I filtered him?/rhetorical question
================================================== ======
Personally, I have never used scotchbrite on poly. I have used a lot
of it on steel. Works great for that. Poly must be some tuff stuff.

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs.

Damn, does that leave you a little "sensitive"? LOL


I use it on poly
with no problems.





Is Poly his wife?

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On 2/22/2012 4:04 AM, wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on poly
with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)

Dayum ... went 69 years doing just fine without knowing that. Now I need
some mental floss. Ehhh!

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Swingman wrote:
On 2/22/2012 4:04 AM, wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it
on poly with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)

Dayum ... went 69 years doing just fine without knowing that. Now I
need some mental floss. Ehhh!

Yeah - leave it to Robert...

--

-Mike-

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 07:15:01 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

wrote:
On Feb 21, 6:21 am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I've gone to scotchbrite for almost all scruffing needs. I use it on
poly with no problems.

Well Mike Marlow, you rascal....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...term=scruffing

I assume you are the one using the scotchbrite... right?

I am now hiding behind my desk so you can't get me.

;^)


HolySh*t Batman! Sure am glad I live in a rural area. What a shock
though - all of my life I've used that word and heard people use it to refer
to scratching. Never heard of the definition above. Now I gotta find a new
word.

ROTFL! Mike, the quickest fix (to become hetero again) is to remove
that damned R. "Scuffing" should suffice for your new word. Should
you choose, you could ask a certain someone just how they came to know
the meaning of that particular word, hmm? snort

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

Larry Jaques wrote:


ROTFL! Mike, the quickest fix (to become hetero again) is to remove
that damned R. "Scuffing" should suffice for your new word. Should
you choose, you could ask a certain someone just how they came to know
the meaning of that particular word, hmm? snort

I was kinda wondering what got Robert to that page...

--

-Mike-

On Feb 22, 10:16*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I was kinda wondering what got Robert to that page...

Well, not being a well traveled or experienced guy, I didn't know what
you were talking about.

I thought for years that when the guys said they were getting together
with their girlfriends to "hook up" they were taking the boat and
trailer out to the lake. Later on, I noticed a pattern of hooking up
really late at night with these younsters, and became suspicious....
come to find out they weren't hooking up the boat at all.

So I was thinking that you had flown one right over my head, and I had
now missed a vital finishing term, one that would make me a handier
guy around the gun. But then.... looked liked those guys were
"hooking up" to me. Yikes!!

I just want you to know Mike, I am not being judgmental. To each
their own, I say.

Just make sure that when you are getting something hot to drink, that
someone doesn't offer to tea bag you... !!!!

Sadly... I am laughing a lot harder about all this than I should.

Robert

wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:16 am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I was kinda wondering what got Robert to that page...

Well, not being a well traveled or experienced guy, I didn't know what
you were talking about.

I thought for years that when the guys said they were getting together
with their girlfriends to "hook up" they were taking the boat and
trailer out to the lake. Later on, I noticed a pattern of hooking up
really late at night with these younsters, and became suspicious....
come to find out they weren't hooking up the boat at all.


Well of course Robert - Shirley you've heard about going out to watch the
submarine races...


I just want you to know Mike, I am not being judgmental. To each
their own, I say.


Oh Lord - I can't wait for the next faux pas to come along. It can't come
fast enough for me...

Sadly... I am laughing a lot harder about all this than I should.


Just remember my friend - he who laughs last...

--

-Mike-

On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 02:59:57 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 22, 10:16*am, "Mike Marlow"
wrote:

I was kinda wondering what got Robert to that page...

Well, not being a well traveled or experienced guy, I didn't know what
you were talking about.

I thought for years that when the guys said they were getting together
with their girlfriends to "hook up" they were taking the boat and
trailer out to the lake. Later on, I noticed a pattern of hooking up
really late at night with these younsters, and became suspicious....
come to find out they weren't hooking up the boat at all.

So I was thinking that you had flown one right over my head, and I had
now missed a vital finishing term, one that would make me a handier
guy around the gun. But then.... looked liked those guys were
"hooking up" to me. Yikes!!

I just want you to know Mike, I am not being judgmental. To each
their own, I say.

Just make sure that when you are getting something hot to drink, that
someone doesn't offer to tea bag you... !!!!

Sadly... I am laughing a lot harder about all this than I should.

Robert

This is fine. You're a good sport, BobRobert.

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

On 2/23/2012 4:59 AM, wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:16 am, "Mike
wrote:

I was kinda wondering what got Robert to that page...

Well, not being a well traveled or experienced guy, I didn't know what
you were talking about.

I thought for years that when the guys said they were getting together
with their girlfriends to "hook up" they were taking the boat and
trailer out to the lake. Later on, I noticed a pattern of hooking up
really late at night with these younsters, and became suspicious....
come to find out they weren't hooking up the boat at all.

So I was thinking that you had flown one right over my head, and I had
now missed a vital finishing term, one that would make me a handier
guy around the gun. But then.... looked liked those guys were
"hooking up" to me. Yikes!!

I just want you to know Mike, I am not being judgmental. To each
their own, I say.

Just make sure that when you are getting something hot to drink, that
someone doesn't offer to tea bag you... !!!!

Sadly... I am laughing a lot harder about all this than I should.

Robert





:!) At least you are not "coming out".

On 2/23/2012 6:57 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 22, 10:16 am, "Mike
wrote:

I was kinda wondering what got Robert to that page...

Well, not being a well traveled or experienced guy, I didn't know what
you were talking about.

I thought for years that when the guys said they were getting together
with their girlfriends to "hook up" they were taking the boat and
trailer out to the lake. Later on, I noticed a pattern of hooking up
really late at night with these younsters, and became suspicious....
come to find out they weren't hooking up the boat at all.


Well of course Robert - Shirley you've heard about going out to watch the
submarine races...


I just want you to know Mike, I am not being judgmental. To each
their own, I say.


Oh Lord - I can't wait for the next faux pas to come along. It can't come
fast enough for me...

Sadly... I am laughing a lot harder about all this than I should.


Just remember my friend - he who laughs last...


Game on! LOL